RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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Fine. Here's why it is monumentally stupid. From day 1 we were sold that these four would be working together. That they would be a team. In it for the long haul. That whatever they were going through, no matter how bad things got, they would be in it together.

This flies in the face of three seasons plus half a year of pre-series advertising have presented us. By defending them, you are defending RT having lied to us since day 1.
They are still a team, they are simply separated for the moment. Just because they're team, friends, and family, doesn't mean that they have to be attached to the hip at the same time. This is a temporal thing, much like a couple that went through a rough patch but ultimately get together again. They are together, just not all the time together. That would just forcing it up as it ignores their personality and circumstances.

Lying, perhaps, but it doesn't make it "monumentally stupid". It's no different from Gainax deviating from the direction shown in Gurren Lagann's first scene but went to a different but close and good enough direction anyway. In addition, where was it stated?
 
To tell it in its complete and proper form. There's a difference between reading a story on wikipedia and actually reading it. It is, for all intent and purpose, and omake/short story about the Maidens instead of exposition about them. And it's not wrong to tell the complete version of a story/song/legend that has been talked about in the main story as extra content. It's been done many times - see the GoT animated shorts.

They were going to have Pyrrha tell the full story in the episode, but it went on for too long so they moved it to WoR.
 
I honestly like the fact that they're separated. You should not be able to foretell the future direction of the story just by looking at the title.
 
It's not just the title. It's the way the entire show has been built up until the v3 finale. It's bad, plain and simple. The show is good worldbuilding for fanfics, nothing more. It will never be good. It will be at best okay sometimes. There are things I like about it. Quite a lot of things actually, but the whole is far less than the sum of its parts. And in this WoR, we didn't even get any worldbuilding, so it failed on that front, too. It's just repeating things the audience already knows, or any idiot with two brain cells to rub together could figure out.
 
It's not just the title. It's the way the entire show has been built up until the v3 finale.

You mean the songs promising pain and misery? Or the ominous comments by Ozpin implying they won't be children forever? The very intro of the first episode of the show talking about how bright lights would cease to burn?
 
You mean the songs promising pain and misery? Or the ominous comments by Ozpin implying they won't be children forever? The very intro of the first episode of the show talking about how bright lights would cease to burn?

Not even "cease to burn," the ominous opening narration by what turned out to be the main villain was talking about how lights would "flicker and die" and how darkness would return.
 
Oh yeah, I got that. 'Course I don't pay much attention to OPs, and a lot of people don't, and the first Red Like Roses doesn't describe Ruby Rose at all, but it's there.

But the show still sold itself on these four girls being a team. Notice what v4 lacks. There can be darkness, sure. Just have them work through it together. Simple, problem solved, keeps with the show they've been selling us for three and a half years. But now they are alone, and it looks like they will solve all their baggage by themselves before rejoining. Which defeats the purpose of advertising them as a team in the first place.





Now I'm going a bit off-topic here, but the fandom's semantics about "volumes" not "seasons" is ludicrous. Like just because it's called a "volume" it does not count as a season. Like, what? Fucking what? Each SEASON is thirteen episodes long, just like a proper season of anime. Each tells a complete arc, and lasts roughly an in-universe season/semester long. It doesn't matter that the length of episodes is much shorter than an anime. Each "volume" is set up as a season in every single way, so there is literally no difference between the two other than the name.

Which means any arguments about how "waah, it's only the second season, don't criticize it" instantly falls apart. Trying to say otherwise is like claiming 24 isn't divided into seasons, because each season takes place in 24 hours. It's completely arbitrary, and when people try to use it to defend RWBY, it only makes the show look worse in my eyes.
 
Ah. I see the salt about the current situation in RWBY and the supposed "lying" of Roosterteeth has caused another dispute.

Oh no, it turns out the the main character group can be split up, be independent of each other, and still be the focus of the show while growing. It's the worst thing in the world (if you can't tell, my sarcasm is nearly palpable).
 
Ah. I see the salt about the current situation in RWBY and the supposed "lying" of Roosterteeth has caused another dispute.

Oh no, it turns out the the main character group can be split up, be independent of each other, and still be the focus of the show while growing. It's the worst thing in the world (if you can't tell, my sarcasm is nearly palpable).
Thank you for entirely destroying your argument by using the word "salt." I have seen genuine concerns about people fearing being assaulted because of their race dismissed as "lol ur just salty 'cuz Trump won."

Next time, try to actually address the issues I brought up instead of using a buzzword. That gets you nowhere, and makes you look like a fool.
 
Thank you for entirely destroying your argument by using the word "salt." I have seen genuine concerns about people fearing being assaulted because of their race dismissed as "lol ur just salty 'cuz Trump won."

Next time, try to actually address the issues I brought up instead of using a buzzword. That gets you nowhere, and makes you look like a fool.
You're saying I look like a fool, but you bring the topics of assault and Trump into a RWBY thread where it doesn't belong at all. There's really nothing more to say on this matter.
 
But the show still sold itself on these four girls being a team. Notice what v4 lacks. There can be darkness, sure. Just have them work through it together. Simple, problem solved, keeps with the show they've been selling us for three and a half years. But now they are alone, and it looks like they will solve all their baggage by themselves before rejoining. Which defeats the purpose of advertising them as a team in the first place.
To be fair, Ruby is hanging out with Nora, Ren, and Jaune, and the opening shows that Blake and Sun will be hanging out together, and Yang has her dad. The only character I can perceive as being alone is Weiss because she's back inside her gilded cage.

I do share part of your frustration at the four main characters being separated. I never liked having to follow multiple storylines at once because I will inevitably find one to be more interesting than the others.
 
To be fair, Ruby is hanging out with Nora, Ren, and Jaune, and the opening shows that Blake and Sun will be hanging out together, and Yang has her dad. The only character I can perceive as being alone is Weiss because she's back inside her gilded cage.

And she might well have started attending Atlas and being closer to Ironwood and Winter by the end of the volume.
 
True, but I doubt it will be her own decision. If Weiss does end up going to Atlas of her own volition, than the word volition will have air quotes.

The way they were setting it up with Ironwood's offer in v4c2 makes it seem like more of an escape than a new prison. Especially when combined with the fact that Winter used Atlas as an escape before.
 
The way they were setting it up with Ironwood's offer in v4c2 makes it seem like more of an escape than a new prison. Especially when combined with the fact that Winter used Atlas as an escape before.
That doesn't sound like a good thing, considering how Winter turned out. Having such a strict outlook on life is not healthy. Regardless, Weiss currently sees Atlas as her only option if she wants to make a difference as a Huntress and has no idea that Ruby is on her way.
 
That doesn't sound like a good thing, considering how Winter turned out. Having such a strict outlook on life is not healthy. Regardless, Weiss currently sees Atlas as her only option if she wants to make a difference as a Huntress and has no idea that Ruby is on her way.

Ruby is going to Mistral, not Atlas. She really isn't on her way, not yet.

With the general breakdown in globalization implied by the stuff we've seen Atlas would be her only option even if her Father was a really swell guy. Do you think a rich girl going to another kingdom for huntress training is safe when war might very well break out imminently?

And I somehow get the impression that Winter's outlook reflects more on Winter and how she reacted to Schnee life than Atlas as a whole. Ironwood doesn't seem as stiff as her. Hell for that matter this is the school that produced Neon and Flynt! They're not typical of the school but it still shows that Atlas has a degree of flexibility when it comes to these things.
 
But the show still sold itself on these four girls being a team. Notice what v4 lacks. There can be darkness, sure. Just have them work through it together. Simple, problem solved, keeps with the show they've been selling us for three and a half years. But now they are alone, and it looks like they will solve all their baggage by themselves before rejoining. Which defeats the purpose of advertising them as a team in the first place.
When? I mean, even with the trailers, which is the main promotion, we have each girl dealing with their own enemies on their own. Their lives intersect with each other, and they grow closer to each other and wishes to become a great team, but they're still their own persons.And here's the thing:

Ruby has always the problem of going ahead on her own, Weiss was always alone and locked in a cage, Blake always runs away and try to deal with her problem alone, and Yang is often reckless and fights alone - similar to Ruby but in a different shade.

All of them has their hearts in the right place, they want to be together with their friends and help others, but there's a theme with each of them: They all have a tendency to be alone. They each have a form of loneliness as part of their issues. That's a thing they all have in common.

RWBY was always the making of a story about four young lonely people whose lives intersect with one another, affects each other, and try to help each others' issues. That they separating the four girls might, at first, a betrayal of being a story about four people being together but is it really so? To me, it's more that their bonds and their very own selves are being tested by the story stating that they can't always be together.

In a good story, a theme or a value is always tested by a counter-theme or value. Well, no, more like any story that has a conflict, because values clashing with each other is what makes a conflict but in a good it's important that the character's point of view and desires are examined, tested, and directly opposed by the reality of the world of the story - by other characters or the plot. And if the story is really good, they would give some weight to opposition by giving some credence to the opposing value. A story about how good will always triumph will have a seemingly insurmountable evil - and evil that seemed to have triumphed or close to it - as its enemy. A story that wants to say that "Crime does not pay," would have a plot point or a character embodying the counter-theme of "Crime does pay," showing how successful they are.

You are arguing that this story is about "Four girls being a team" or being together. Separating them isn't a contradiction to that - it's just the story testing it and perhaps trying to reinforce it. That even when they're separated and have their own issues, their actions affects or had affected one another, and that they were undeniably together and they will inevitably be together again.

They say that a relationship is not tested until it hits its first snag - its first argument, trouble, fight. This is just the same - their bonds are being tested. And I have a feeling that they will succeed if the final shot of the opening is any indication. Maybe if they are going full ASoIaF with the Stark family being scattered and having entirely different storylines, then I would be rebelling as well. But it's not, it's just the show testing its characters and temporarily separating them.

So no, I don't think they're lying. Taking a liberal choice of how to execute it, perhaps. Taking an approach that one might not like, more likely. You don't like them being separated at all, and would prefer if they stick together, well, like a real JRPG party - where separation seldom occurs, lasts a short time, and is usually just one party member going away do to their plotline demands. Just say that you would prefer something along that line and that this approach isn't for you and you are not liking it.

There, no need to be all caustic and accusing at all and people would be more understanding to your complaint as well. Being judgemental about things isn't a good way of stating your opinion or view and convince people of something, it often results in the direct opposite result and people being unsympathetic to your statements and point of view. It also isn't a good thing to do unless you have a really foolproof case, but since this is more of a clash of opinion, it's far from foolproof as opinions are subjective.

Now I'm not saying that RT is completely right and that they are blameless, no. But sometimes writers see and plan things differently from how the audience sees it. It might be an honest mistake on their part, or it could be that audience just isn't open minded enough. Which is what I think you should do - be a little bit more open-minded to it. I think that they're just trying to experiment and try to make their story more interesting or better. You might think that it isn't, but maybe you could lay off the judgemental and harsh attitude a little bit? Or, I don't know, just drop the show and leave the thread if you aren't going to be fair about it.

Or if you're going to re-hash the same topic and argument over and over again. And remember, a lot of people here also have an account in SB, so just changing site doesn't mean we won't remember. Bring a new topic, then we'll talk.
Now I'm going a bit off-topic here, but the fandom's semantics about "volumes" not "seasons" is ludicrous. Like just because it's called a "volume" it does not count as a season. Like, what? Fucking what? Each SEASON is thirteen episodes long, just like a proper season of anime. Each tells a complete arc, and lasts roughly an in-universe season/semester long. It doesn't matter that the length of episodes is much shorter than an anime. Each "volume" is set up as a season in every single way, so there is literally no difference between the two other than the name.

Which means any arguments about how "waah, it's only the second season, don't criticize it" instantly falls apart. Trying to say otherwise is like claiming 24 isn't divided into seasons, because each season takes place in 24 hours. It's completely arbitrary, and when people try to use it to defend RWBY, it only makes the show look worse in my eyes.
Calling it a Season is not wrong, but equating it with a full anime's season is. Because it implied that it has the same amount a season of anime has to tell its story. It doesn't. At best it had half, on average they have a third of it. So while calling it a Season might not be wrong, judging it as if it has gone through a whole anime's runtime. This is one of those "small things" that could bring down an entire argument if it's not properly accounted for. Just adapt to it.

Besides, seasons play an important part and theme in RWBY. It might get confusing to use it as well here.
I do share part of your frustration at the four main characters being separated. I never liked having to follow multiple storylines at once because I will inevitably find one to be more interesting than the others.
Understandable, but so far they all has been very interesting and quite well-executed.

Ruby is the least interesting character to me, but she's balanced by having the JNR and pursuing the main plot.

Weiss is in Atlas which is a place I, and a lot of people, has been interested with and pulled into a rather interesting political issues and home situation that hits pretty close to home (pun unintended).

Blake is doing her usual thing of fleeing away, but she has Sun as well to balance her emo ways and we're going to Menagerie which should further the halted Faunus plotline, which I have been looking forward to.

Yang is dealing with a nasty case of depression, trauma, loss of limb, and a lingering sense of pain. The way she's coping with it is very relatable so far and the way she's failing at it even after so many months is just tugging on my heartstrings.

Yes, I acknowledge that things might fall apart later on, but so far it's been going good. While I wasn't impressed by the premiere, these three episodes have done quite a lot to assuage my fears and I'm pretty optimistic as to how it will turn out later on. Granted, RWBY does have a tendency to peak in the middle then mess up as it gets closer to the end, but in my opinion, the quality so far is looking better compared to the previous volumes.
 
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...I'm not even sure that I understand what the argument is?

I mean, "the show is about the four protagonists of Team RWBY, so why is Jaune getting more screen time and character focus than Yang or Blake?" makes more sense as a complaint than "the four protagonists are pursuing different plotlines in different places this season."

I mean, "I don't like the show; the writing is bad, the plot is stupid, the characterization is flimsy and the cult of personality around its late creator generally infuriating" is always a valid opinion. I mean, you always have the absolute right to find Citizen Kane or Hamlet a piece of hot garbage, let alone an underbudgeted web animation.

But how is it "lying" to have the protagonists of a multiple-protagonist show get separated for a plot arc before coming back together later? That's just a basic storytelling technique. I mean, hell, they literally did this already in V1 (Blake went off by herself, was joined by Ruby midway through the episode, caught up with Weiss and Yang at the end of the episode) and over multiple episodes in V2 (Blake went to the White Fang meeting, Yang went to the nightclub, Weiss made the phone call, and Ruby hung out with Penny, only to come together to fight Roman Torchwick in the mech). This is just the same thing on a larger scale.
 
Breaking up the fellowship in act two is common story archetype, but here it serves another purpose. RWBY is in some ways still a vehicle for crazy machinima fight scenes. Separating the main characters and having them group with others allows for more different and distinct matchups rather than every fight be "RWBY beats up the miniboss" or "RWBY beats up a bunch of mooks".
 
Say, Zero (who has an account here too) mentioned in SB how Jaune was the one supposed to ask Blake about her books but it was Ruby instead because Miles ad-lib on and on about Weiss. Monty then accepted his ad-lib and changed some thijgs which lead to Blake being the only RWBY member not to interact with Jaune on-screen.

Can anyone verify which RT interview was that mentioned it? If true, this means Miles, may have (I suspect) intentionally made Jaune more irritating than he already is at that point.

EDIT: I searched for it but my google-fu is weak.
 
Say, Zero (who has an account here too) mentioned in SB how Jaune was the one supposed to ask Blake about her books but it was Ruby instead because Miles ad-lib on and on about Weiss. Monty then accepted his ad-lib and changed some thijgs which lead to Blake being the only RWBY member not to interact with Jaune on-screen.

Can anyone verify which RT interview was that mentioned it? If true, this means Miles, may have (I suspect) intentionally made Jaune more irritating than he already is at that point.

EDIT: I searched for it but my google-fu is weak.

Not quite. What happened is that as an exercise, Arryn (Blake's VA) and Miles (playing Jaune) ad-libbed a scene with the prompt "Blake is trying to read, Jaune is bugging her." Miles ad-libbed the Weiss thing, which was incorporated into the show because they all found it funny. This is from the Volume 1 Director's Commentary.
 
And she might well have started attending Atlas and being closer to Ironwood and Winter by the end of the volume.
So weird thing to note.

If she went to Atlas, would she be her own team, or just replace lost members? Because face it, I doubt none of the students die in the festival, but particularly Penny.

In fact, I find this interesting question, period. Like what if there's odd number of students, and so on.
 
So weird thing to note.

If she went to Atlas, would she be her own team, or just replace lost members? Because face it, I doubt none of the students die in the festival, but particularly Penny.

In fact, I find this interesting question, period. Like what if there's odd number of students, and so on.
I'm now hungry for Weiss to be temporarily assigned to fill Penny's place on a team, especially if Ciel was her partner.
 
I'm now hungry for Weiss to be temporarily assigned to fill Penny's place on a team, especially if Ciel was her partner.
While I'd love to focus on RWBY, or if she shows have have Ciel get some development, my mind first went to:

Weiss: She's cold, ruthless, emotionally distant and mechanically efficient; she's everything I wanted in a partner when I first chose this path... and I absolutely hate her.
 
While I'd love to focus on RWBY, or if she shows have have Ciel get some development, my mind first went to:

Weiss: She's cold, ruthless, emotionally distant and mechanically efficient; she's everything I wanted in a partner when I first chose this path... and I absolutely hate her.
[Mirror-Mirror Part 3 Intensifies]
 
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