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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • What I hate about the discussion of Jaune's role in the Deathstalker fight is that it seems to be nothing but a referendum on your view of Jaune. Is he a tactical savant who noticed at a glance that the stinger damaged by Ren would be a useful way to penetrate the otherwise-near-invulnerable armor, recognized a plan to deal with it by remembering disparate elements of his team's skills despite having only seen them fight in this battle, and managed to communicate to them with simple instructions and gestures to get them to act at the right time? Or is he basically an irrelevant cheerleader who announced things to the audience that Pyrrha and Nora undoubtedly noticed on their own?

    (It reminds me a lot of people who complain about Ruby's "I have a plan" in the same fight--the ones who refuse to think she could have communicated that plan to her teammates offscreen while JNPR was finishing the Deathstalker fight.)

    The Geist fight was different in that we explicitly see him recognizing what's going on ("we have to destroy all its limbs simultaneously so we can get a clean shot at the core") and expressing that plan in a completely unhelpful way ("Hit it harder!"). I don't know if they were trying for comedy there, or what, but I think that it didn't cleanly convey what they were going for and made Jaune look worse than it was supposed to.

    And about Sun and Blake's dynamic, yes, that's exactly it. Blake more than any other main character has a tendency to go into bad headspace where she lets her personal issues get in the way of accurate assessment of the situation, the personalities, the dynamic, or just wanting to talk about these things. We've seen her do it in V1 about her history with the White Fang and their present activities, V2 with her need to stop them as a personal crusade, and here and into V4 with Adam, and we've seen her even be self-aware about it in V2. Sun seems to be very good at spotting when she's doing this and pointing out the problems, but very bad at managing to express it to her in any way that would be inclined to get her to confront it. It seems to be a variant of Jaune's in that he's the kid from a "normal" background who's just not experienced in dealing with people suffering from loss, fear, grief, and similar emotional states.

    Also...honestly, his slinking around the boat in a hooded cloak does seem very stalker-y, something emphasized because the writers deliberately were working with that to highlight Blake's fear. There are two mitigating factors: he's a literal stowaway on the ship (it's in the episode title, even if we missed the cues from V1E15), and we also don't know how far out of port they were when he revealed themselves. I assumed "way out in the ocean after several days" at first, but then during the dragon fight there was a convenient island to land on. Mind you, it helps that we're clearly supposed to see Sun as "socially awkward with shades of dumbass" so "he's slinking around in a cloak so the crew don't immediately realize he's not on the passenger manifest while he tries to get an opportunity to approach Blake" is a perfectly reasonable interpretation if he's doing it "it's afternoon now and they just sailed with the dawn tide" instead of "they've been at sea for three weeks now so speak up you idiot it's creepy that you're still under the cloak." And of course, Blake is perfectly in character to be fearful and suspicious of his behavior knowing her circumstances.

    The problem with analyzing Sun, though, will always be that he's the rival option to what's probably the fandom's most popular ship. He's always going to draw hate from that direction.
     
    I always dislike the assumption that any analyse of Sun's behaviour can't be separated from Bumblebee or Yang, or whatever. Yes, no one is one hundred percent objective, but that doesn't invalidate negative opinions and if someone's point doesn't broach on certain things, dragging them into the argument to undermine the person making a statement just feels cheap to me.

    So yes, I do find it a bit weird and uncomfortable and genuinely confusing that its implied Sun has been following Blake for something like six months, not picked up on the fact she isn't fighting White Fang, tried to back up when she noticed him over approaching her before then, and spent a lot of the fight being a goof which is an issue I've had with him since V2.

    Did he have good intentions? Sure, he was trying to help out a friend, doesn't mean I feel he went about it in a good way or that it doesn't raise my eyebrows though.
     
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    Also, not cool that he left his team behind. Does his team even know why he left? Did they agree? Or did he just run off to do his own thing? Actually, if SSN are still in Vale, they could team up with Yang and take out Adam. That's actually how I would like to see Yang finally get back on her feet. With the moral and physical support of SSN, she makes a temporary team with them and go off to fight Adam. Long story short, they win, but Yang's new robot arm is sliced off, which is why she has the metal stump in the promo. Blake is forced to realize that all her running away did jack and shit in the end, Yang, despite losing her new arm, is back and better than ever, and Sun realizes he's a shit leader.

    I admit, SSN could have agreed to let Sun go off to find Blake, but it seems more in character for him to ditch them. Free spirit, unfortunately, can also cause bad things.

    Man, I wish I'd come up with some sort of joke about Pyrrha phoning it in before this episode. Now it's too late.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Also, not cool that he left his team behind. Does his team even know why he left? Did they agree? Or did he just run off to do his own thing? Actually, if SSN are still in Vale, they could team up with Yang and take out Adam. That's actually how I would like to see Yang finally get back on her feet. With the moral and physical support of SSN, she makes a temporary team with them and go off to fight Adam. Long story short, they win, but Yang's new robot arm is sliced off, which is why she has the metal stump in the promo. Blake is forced to realize that all her running away did jack and shit in the end, Yang, despite losing her new arm, is back and better than ever, and Sun realizes he's a shit leader.

    I admit, SSN could have agreed to let Sun go off to find Blake, but it seems more in character for him to ditch them. Free spirit, unfortunately, can also cause bad things.
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    Sun said that his team went back to Mistral and he told them he'd "catch up." Don't know if Sun actually told them what he was doing, but he at least said something before leaving them.
     
    It's also apparently not the first time he's done it, so they wouldn't regard it as a big deal. Oh, Sun's tking a detour again, no biggie.
     
    Personally I think the latest episode says even more about the Remnant mentality for vehicles that are supposed to leave the borders of the kingdoms, they must be armed to the teeth and ready to fight against larger Grimm all on their own. I'm guessing that this is especially true for those that are supposed to carry people due to the negative emotions attracting the Grimm thing.

    Also my personal theory is that there are specific paths that ships take to keep them in shallow waters where the larger Grimm aren't as much of a problem. However with the fall of Beacon I can see Salem ordering or simply the more intelligent Grimm deciding to stalk the sea routes to catch anyone trying to move between the kingdoms. Basically keep them as isolated as possible.
     
    DezoPenguin said:
    What I hate about the discussion of Jaune's role in the Deathstalker fight is that it seems to be nothing but a referendum on your view of Jaune. Is he a tactical savant who noticed at a glance that the stinger damaged by Ren would be a useful way to penetrate the otherwise-near-invulnerable armor, recognized a plan to deal with it by remembering disparate elements of his team's skills despite having only seen them fight in this battle, and managed to communicate to them with simple instructions and gestures to get them to act at the right time? Or is he basically an irrelevant cheerleader who announced things to the audience that Pyrrha and Nora undoubtedly noticed on their own?

    (It reminds me a lot of people who complain about Ruby's "I have a plan" in the same fight--the ones who refuse to think she could have communicated that plan to her teammates offscreen while JNPR was finishing the Deathstalker fight.)

    The Geist fight was different in that we explicitly see him recognizing what's going on ("we have to destroy all its limbs simultaneously so we can get a clean shot at the core") and expressing that plan in a completely unhelpful way ("Hit it harder!"). I don't know if they were trying for comedy there, or what, but I think that it didn't cleanly convey what they were going for and made Jaune look worse than it was supposed to.

    And about Sun and Blake's dynamic, yes, that's exactly it. Blake more than any other main character has a tendency to go into bad headspace where she lets her personal issues get in the way of accurate assessment of the situation, the personalities, the dynamic, or just wanting to talk about these things. We've seen her do it in V1 about her history with the White Fang and their present activities, V2 with her need to stop them as a personal crusade, and here and into V4 with Adam, and we've seen her even be self-aware about it in V2. Sun seems to be very good at spotting when she's doing this and pointing out the problems, but very bad at managing to express it to her in any way that would be inclined to get her to confront it. It seems to be a variant of Jaune's in that he's the kid from a "normal" background who's just not experienced in dealing with people suffering from loss, fear, grief, and similar emotional states.

    Also...honestly, his slinking around the boat in a hooded cloak does seem very stalker-y, something emphasized because the writers deliberately were working with that to highlight Blake's fear. There are two mitigating factors: he's a literal stowaway on the ship (it's in the episode title, even if we missed the cues from V1E15), and we also don't know how far out of port they were when he revealed themselves. I assumed "way out in the ocean after several days" at first, but then during the dragon fight there was a convenient island to land on. Mind you, it helps that we're clearly supposed to see Sun as "socially awkward with shades of dumbass" so "he's slinking around in a cloak so the crew don't immediately realize he's not on the passenger manifest while he tries to get an opportunity to approach Blake" is a perfectly reasonable interpretation if he's doing it "it's afternoon now and they just sailed with the dawn tide" instead of "they've been at sea for three weeks now so speak up you idiot it's creepy that you're still under the cloak." And of course, Blake is perfectly in character to be fearful and suspicious of his behavior knowing her circumstances.

    The problem with analyzing Sun, though, will always be that he's the rival option to what's probably the fandom's most popular ship. He's always going to draw hate from that direction.
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    I think Sun just thought it would be cool to play the mysterious stranger thing for a while. He was probably going to try to act all cool and enigmatic, but then the sea dragon happened and it kinda went out the window.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    There was no good reason for it to hide its wings.
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    It was initially underwater, and then diving in and out of the water. Having the wings contracted like that would make maneuvering underwater easier. I'm pretty sure it didn't go underwater again after it unfurled its wings.

    Sunder the Gold said:
    casually-moon-shattering power levels are ridiculous and inappropriate.
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    Probably not the best way to put it, given Remnant's moon.
     
    Well ep 3 is out for non-paying members so spoiler time can be over.

    Blake: Who says I'm paranoid?!?
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    Nobody needs to, you show it constantly. Not unjustified but you're acting like a cat on a hot tin roof Blake.
    Yang home life
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    Yeah Yang is not over the events of the Battle Of Beacon in any way, shape or form.:(
    All the guns
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    And this is a passenger ship? Yikes.:eek:
    Though I suppose that when moving large groups of people between the safety of the kingdoms, you'd likely get negative emotions drawing Grimm (which is potentially a reason the captain was trying to put Blake as ease) so Enough Gun would be a good idea.
    "Well it looks like you need all the help you can get":grin:
    -Drops him-
    "Ugh just shut up and fight":eyeroll:
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    These two.:rofl:

    Also if you look closely, the animators had Blake's ears twitching/moving due to her emotional state. It's a nice touch.
    "Fire"
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    This is going to be one hell of a fish story. And I think the ship is going to be in the yard for a while.
    Sun Wukong: It'll be a regular Journey to the East!
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    I see what you did there RT.
    Salem: What are you planning?
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    Freaky Grimm communication lackey aside an interesting scene.
    1. Salem can't simply mentally control the Grimm ala the Overmind. She has to actually issue commands.
    2. She accepts that as far as Cinder knows, she did kill Ozpin. She finds it incredibly odd and is wondering what plan Clockman is setting in motion.
     
    Ok, seeing the newly freed kitty ears I am actually rather surprised that Yang's hand lasted that long, hell I can already see the team reunion:
    Blake: Ruby! Weiss! Yang! I am so happy to see you again!
    Team RWY:***Don't pet the kitty ears. Don't pet the kitty ears. Don't pet the kitty ears. Don't pet the kitty ears. ***
     
    jwolfe_beta said:
    Probably their first time being free of the bow's compression for any amount of time in a good long while.
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    Or just the fact that her ears look ridiculously tiny in Volumes 1 2 and 3. Which was passable when they were covered by the bow 99% of the time. Not so much when they're supposed to be a prominent feature.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Or just the fact that her ears look ridiculously tiny in Volumes 1 2 and 3. Which was passable when they were covered by the bow 99% of the time. Not so much when they're supposed to be a prominent feature.
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    Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

    Still I like the fact that the animators are using all the characteristics of a character when showing emotion. Not just their stance and voice but the little things.
     
    So apparently Viz.com has let out a single free chapter of the RWBY manga and has these character summaries on there as well.

    Apparently the Dust/Aura being mistaken for or incorrectly referred to as magic is a common thing. Also love Yang's summary, less keen on Weiss's, Ruby and Blake's work well to me.
     
    Incidentally, my sister's boyfriend is basically Neptune. I'm never going to be able to get that out of my head.
     
    Leingod said:
    I would describe Neptune more as a tool than a dick. He's only really an asshole when he's trying way too hard to be smooth.
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    He is in many ways similar to Jaune: both can be rather oblivious and offputting because of their resulting thoughtlessness, but are fundamentally goodhearted and willing to face their mistakes once they've been made obvious. Neptune's just rather more selfish and self-absorbed, given his obsession with his image.
     
    That part with Yang and her dad was sad. You could he knows what she's going through, because he went through something similar himself. But at the same time, he doesn't know how to deal with it.

    Also, liking how they are making Blake's ears more expressive, though I'm still just weirded out by the fact that she has two sets of ears.
     
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