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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Leingod said:
    *looks at our continued reliance on oil and other fossil fuels* Yep. Sure will.
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    We have a reliance, yes, but at least we have solar panels and hydroelectric and nuclear and wind and tidal and all told a boat of ways to power our civilization other than fossil fuels. We've just failed to scale them sufficiently to as of yet meet our full needs but we know of ways and means to do it so as the price of fossil fuels rise these alternatives will become more most competitive.

    These guys literally don't know how to build a rocket that doesn't use dust.
     
    Sucal said:
    To be fair, considering how awesome dust is that makes sense (and they could be researching artificial dust)

    Plus for all we know Fossil Fuels might not exist on Remanent
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    One of the most used rocket fuels is Liquid Hydrogen and Liquid Oxygen. This is not something you get from Fossil fuels. This is something you get from splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen with electricity and then chilling them. Now it takes a bit of engineering know how to actually make it work as a rocket but the fact that they didn't jump of trying to get this to work when dust failed above the atmosphere* shows either a lack of some fundamental chemical knowledge or a cultural blind spot when it came to non-dust based technical solutions.

    A lack of fossil fuels doesn't explain this.

    *I'm assuming from the CCT World of Remnant that they've known about this problem since before the CCT went up or for around 80 years.
     
    blast flame said:
    We have a reliance, yes, but at least we have solar panels and hydroelectric and nuclear and wind and tidal and all told a boat of ways to power our civilization other than fossil fuels. We've just failed to scale them sufficiently to as of yet meet our full needs but we know of ways and means to do it so as the price of fossil fuels rise these alternatives will become more most competitive.

    These guys literally don't know how to build a rocket that doesn't use dust.
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    We could have done that years ago. We could have lots of cheap electric cars, but several important patents are owned by oil companies who refuse to let people build them.
     
    Leingod said:
    We could have done that years ago. We could have lots of cheap electric cars, but several important patents are owned by oil companies who refuse to let people build them.
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    I think you're verging a bit on conspiracy theory territory here. There are sound economic reasons why it's so hard to move off oil. The limitations of batteries for instance.
     
    Tython82 said:
    The most likely reason they are doing these now is so they don't have to constantly explain in story about the areas that the characters should already have knowledge about
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    Eh, maybe. On the other hand, we don't know that any of them have ever been to any of the other kingdoms, so any knowledge they should have can be justified as being abstract and incomplete.
     
    Manga chapter 11
    Team JNPR vs 4 King Taijitu's that can apparently pull off a fusion dance with the help of the mystery grimm from last chapter and become the Yamata no Orochi......this is going to be awesome.
     
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    Moving this here since it really doesn't have anything to do with the DF crossover.

    inverted_helix said:
    Plus there's no possible way they could feed the population of a megacity that size.
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    So... question. How do you think they feed their population if it's smaller? The fact that any "vast hinterlands" the kingdoms may have are infested by grimm and therefore not available for farming is invariant to the actual size of Vale. What they can grow in the city (including a largish "agricultural district" which would be the size of, like, Kansas), backyard gardens, etc, scales up and down just as the size of the city does.
     
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    Random832 said:
    So... question. How do you think they feed their population if it's smaller? The fact that any "vast hinterlands" the kingdoms may have are infested by grimm and therefore not available for farming is invariant to the actual size of Vale. What they can grow in the city (including a largish "agricultural district" which would be the size of, like, Kansas), backyard gardens, etc, scales up and down just as the size of the city does.
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    The grimm don't actually seem as prone to just constantly attacking as that would imply. We know that there are villages outside the walls that are successful enough that people keep building them. Presumably those provide food to the cities.

    You don't seem to grasp though that agriculture doesn't evenly scale like that. The larger the city the more difficult it is to establish a transportation network which can move bulk products through it efficiently. We don't see evidence of the kind of massive infrastructure that shipping food for billions of population would entail. I don't think you quite grasp how many people a city the size of Texas would have. Texas is 696,241 km2, urban sprawl like we see in Vale city is generally a density of no less than 4,000 people/km2. This gives a population around 2.8 billion.

    Try to imagine the amount of transportation infrastructure you'd need to transport food for that many people.

    Agriculture scales mostly linearly yes. Transportation for that agriculture is the problem. If you have some sort of massive interior area the size of Kansas providing food where is the train network the likes of which Earth humanity has never imagined in its wildest dreams to move the food? You would need something like railroads with 10 parallel tracks running 24/7 to keep food moving.

    Individual gardens simply can't provide the level of food necessary. It takes at least a few hundred square meters to provide food for a person. There's no space in the cities we've seen for that. I mean if you care nothing about malnutrition and just getting enough calories to not starve you get to about 3,000 people per square kilometer of perfect conditions farmland. Or a bit over 300 square meters of land maintained by each person if you're feeding them by individual gardens. That isn't something you can hide in a house, or have on a rooftop.

    People in our world use gardens to supplement their food supply with fresh items, but the bulk of their calories is still bought at a store. It's simply impossible for city dwellers to provide enough food for themselves.



    For that matter why would Beacon be so small? If you have 2.8 billion people, your military should be in the neighborhood of 14-64 million people. Even your special forces are going to number in the hundreds of thousands. Where's the massive army?
     
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    Tython82 said:
    Rock Golem Grimm ok that's going to be interesting also I can of find it weird that Jaune barely got a redesign.
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    I'd imagine Jaune will either be moving more to the background this Volume--with the focus solely on the separated RWBY--such that it's okay for him not to be upgraded... Or he's going to get another full arc like Jaunedice which will see him get an upgrade midseason.

    Or possibly a middle ground, where Jaune gets a "level up" in service to Ruby's story (perhaps discovering his Semblance?) and gets a costume upgrade then.
     
    inverted_helix said:
    It's not like Ren and Nora changed that much either. I mean they seem to be wearing pretty much the same outfits, just maybe with a bit more detail to them.

    Only thing I picked out as different was that Nora's heart opening on her chest is slashed.
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    They're actually quite a bit different while retaining the same sort of style and sensibility--it's the kind of costume change I like.

    Ren's coat is longer and is now sleeveless, while also being simpler in color: it's only in shades of green now, whereas his old outfit featured black and gold embroidery with a red inner lining.

    Nora's design is relatively closer to her original outfit, but does have distinct differences. Her current outfit is pretty much a white blouse and pink skirt and belt with a bomber jacket and high boots, while her original outfit was a bit more complex, with an armored corset/vest fitting over a similar blouse and skirt.

    They're distinct but still reminiscent of the original outfits, much like Ruby's.
     
    Renewal said:
    Ren's coat is longer and is now sleeveless, while also being simpler in color: it's only in shades of green now, whereas his old outfit featured black and gold embroidery with a red inner lining.
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    Plus the coat's sleeveless and shows his undershirt, and those detached sleeves that fade from black to purple to pink to white. Oh, and his shoes now have open toes.
     
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    So something I just thought of. Cinder's team claimed to come from Haven.

    Sun's team was actually from Haven. Why did Sun and Neptune never comment on Cinder's team?

    Did Cinder seriously go to Haven for a year to set this up? Neopolitan and Cinder certainly were in Vale before the Mistral teams arrived. Maybe Emerald and Mercury could have been in Mistral for their supposed time in Haven. But Emerald gets a headache from fooling more than one person at a time.

    How would no one from the two full teams sent from Haven not notice that Cinders team claimed to be from there, but wasn't?
     
    inverted_helix said:
    So something I just thought of. Cinder's team claimed to come from Haven.

    Sun's team was actually from Haven. Why did Sun and Neptune never comment on Cinder's team?

    Did Cinder seriously go to Haven for a year to set this up? Neopolitan and Cinder certainly were in Vale before the Mistral teams arrived. Maybe Emerald and Mercury could have been in Mistral for their supposed time in Haven. But Emerald gets a headache from fooling more than one person at a time.

    How would no one from the two full teams sent from Haven not notice that Cinders team claimed to be from there, but wasn't?
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    These sort of inconsistencies were sort of what alot of people have commented on about over the course of volume 3 for example, weather or not Qrow saw Cinders team when he rescued Amber and according to the directors commentary he didn't get a good look at them and thus they couldn't have been captured/dealt with at the start of the tournament. My guess is that alot of these questions are either going to answered during Volume 4 or in another WoR segment.
     
    inverted_helix said:
    Did Cinder seriously go to Haven for a year to set this up? Neopolitan and Cinder certainly were in Vale before the Mistral teams arrived.
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    Except that's not "certain" at all; far from it. Cinder appears in Volume 1 only at the very beginning, before the school year has started, and in the stinger of Volume 1, after foreign students have started filing into Vale. Meanwhile, Neo only appears in Volume 2, well after all the foreign students are in Vale (though admittedly the real reason for that is because she was basically created and edited into that episode mere hours before it aired).
     
    Leingod said:
    Except that's not "certain" at all; far from it. Cinder appears in Volume 1 only at the very beginning, before the school year has started, and in the stinger of Volume 1, after foreign students have started filing into Vale. Meanwhile, Neo only appears in Volume 2, well after all the foreign students are in Vale (though admittedly the real reason for that is because she was basically created and edited into that episode mere hours before it aired).
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    So they've been going to school at Haven for this long a stretch? And no one commented on Cinder obviously being way older than a student has any right to be? Honestly that kind of boggled me to begin with. Cinders character design is so much obviously older than the rest of the students. She looked as old as Glynda to me, maybe even older. She was able to conceal her power from the teaching staff the whole time? And you know the whole evilness thing she practically radiates at all times.

    For that matter, how would she have gotten Mercury into the school to begin with when he killed his father and then just fled the scene? Does no one do background checks at these schools and think hey this kids father was murdered, his house torched, and then he was never found by the police and now he's shown up at a school. Let's not question this! I mean we can assume Emerald isn't in any criminal database. But Mercury should have been the primary suspect in his father's death if it was known he survived considering he fled the scene. He didn't even change his name.




    Random832 said:
    So... question. How do you think they feed their population if it's smaller? The fact that any "vast hinterlands" the kingdoms may have are infested by grimm and therefore not available for farming is invariant to the actual size of Vale. What they can grow in the city (including a largish "agricultural district" which would be the size of, like, Kansas), backyard gardens, etc, scales up and down just as the size of the city does.
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    While reading the wiki I finally found a way to prove that Vale isn't some Texas sized megacity.

    http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/rwby/images/4/4c/ValeMap.png/revision/latest?cb=20130906002633
    Roman Torchwick's map, from Volume 1 Chapter 8. While there's plenty of implication to it of a reasonable sized city we don't need implication. It marks Signal as on Patch the island off the coast of Vale.

    In Chapter 1 10:27 Ruby says she can see Signal from here, and they're in Vale city at that point, and their altitude is only a few hundred feet, a thousand maybe. 1000 feet altitude gives 38.7 mile to horizon. And that's the absolute limit. You can play around with the numbers in a horizon distance calculator, but if anything that altitude is overestimating significantly. It's more likely half that altitude or less.

    Then by drawing that relative distance on the larger scale map: http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/rwby/images/4/4d/City_of_Vale_(Districts).svg/revision/latest?cb=20150103192646

    We can derive that at the absolute largest Vale city can be is only a hundred miles across or so. Though I think it's likely smaller still than that, this datapoint gives us hard evidence reducing the maximum size significantly below the double-Texas estimate that merely mapping the size of the Remnant map to Earth's size produces.
     
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