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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    To be fair though, they just lost their mother so I think the context is slightly different, plus I think Yang would have been like... five and they seem to live in the woods on an island with Grim on it.
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    I'll have to double check, I thought it was Ruby was 5 Yang was 7 at that point.

    And the Grimm should mean parents are better at teaching safety behaviors not worse, but that's rather irrelevant since they did wander off.
     
    Mahrac said:
    I'll have to double check, I thought it was Ruby was 5 Yang was 7 at that point.

    And the Grimm should mean parents are better at teaching safety behaviors not worse, but that's rather irrelevant since they did wander off.
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    If I recall Yang said Ruby was too young to really know what was going on, she might be underestimating Ruby but she was extremely tiny.

    In this context its not even about teaching safety behaviour but leaving two grief stricken children alone in a house in the woods where the Grim also live.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Plot hole: Ruby's cloak seems ripped, and fans theorize it's because she's been on the road for so long. But if that's true, how does she have a new, fanservice-y outfit?
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    See, I agree with you, actually. The torn cloak and the elaborate finery underneath present oddly clashing visual messages.

    But here's what I've recently been thinking justifies it, and most of the odd pecularities of the show: RWBY has elements of magical realism, in the literary sense. And by magical realism, I'm not talking about the reality of magics like dust and aura in Remnant, but rather that the logic of their world is flexible and dreamlike. A traveler in Remnant doesn't have a torn cloak because of a certain tree branch or particular sharp stone or some other precisely recorded detail, they have a torn cloak because that is the attire expected of travelers.

    Call it storybook logic, if you like. There's plenty of metafictional elements in the story- I just think that now those elements have creeped in even further with the characters.
     
    Zam said:
    In this context its not even about teaching safety behaviour but leaving two grief stricken children alone in a house in the woods where the Grim also live.
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    Grim exist on the Island but it is apparently inhabited by human settlements as well. Being an Island may help to keep the Grimm down to manageable numbers at least. Anyways, Qrow conveniently stepping in at the last instant hints that the kids were not in fact as unattended as Yang believes. In all likeliness he was shadowing them the whole time.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Grim exist on the Island but it is apparently inhabited by human settlements as well. Being an Island may help to keep the Grimm down to manageable numbers at least. Anyways, Qrow conveniently stepping in at the last instant hints that the kids were not in fact as unattended as Yang believes. In all likeliness he was shadowing them the whole time.
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    True but they still live in a relatively isolated cottage and leaving two grief stricken children alone is still bad parenting. Its possible he was shadowing them, however we don't have any way of confirming that save that he did arrive in time to save them, he could also have stumbled back to the house found it empty, seen a place Tai or he kept a picture of Raven hidden and shot off towards the house pictured there in a vain hope and just gotten really lucky. I mean, why would he let them wander around for hours hidden then get attacked by Grim before showing himself?
     
    Zam said:
    I mean, why would he let them wander around for hours hidden then get attacked by Grim before showing himself?
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    Remember, Qrow is probably the 'sane' one. That doesn't mean he doesn't share some of his sisters supposed tendencies.

    Yang seeing the consequences of her actions before Uncle Qrow swoops in to save the day should have been a lesson that stuck.
     
    Oh god what even is this bullshit. I'm not even bother to argue. I will just reserve the right to sing "I told you so!" when the next volume starts and Taiyang is completely fine and helps Yang get better.

    If I'm wrong I shall change my avatar to a man wearing a silly hat.
     
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    I think the biggest emotional issue with Taiyang is that occasionally he's replaced by a 2D prop.

    Maybe that's his deep, dark secret.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Remember, Qrow is probably the 'sane' one. That doesn't mean he doesn't share some of his sisters supposed tendencies.

    Yang seeing the consequences of her actions before Uncle Qrow swoops in to save the day should have been a lesson that stuck.
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    Possible, though that makes him a huge douche if he did do that to a five year old.

    Mook said:
    Og god what even is this bullshit. I'm not even bother to argue. I will just reserve the right to sing "I told you so!" when the next volume starts and Taiyang is completely fine and helps Yang get better.

    If I'm wrong I shall change my avatar to a man wearing a silly hat.
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    Just to note I'm only arguing about Tai be broken and when Yang was small not currently.
     
    Zam said:
    True but he does seem to make an effort to be less of a dick with his nieces, letting them almost get torn apart by Beowolves seems another step up though.
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    Bullshit hunstmen super powers yo. If he really was shadowing them the whole time they were never in any more danger than seeing the Gorilla's at the zoo. And it guaranteed Yang wouldn't try something like this when he or Tai weren't around.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Bullshit hunstmen super powers yo. If he really was shadowing them the whole time they were never in any more danger than seeing the Gorilla's at the zoo. And it guaranteed Yang wouldn't try something like this when he or Tai weren't around.
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    So traumatising grief stricken children whose father wandered off on them into not searching for a missing mothers is a good idea? I'm not trying to be snarky or rude, sorry if it comes across like that really sleepy and I'm not entirely sure what we're discussing anymore. Plus we were still discussing Tai's behaviour originally in leaving his two very small upset children alone, or at least seemingly so and emotionally so regardless, in a house in a forest with Grim.
     
    Zam said:
    So traumatising grief stricken children whose father wandered off on them into not searching for a missing mothers is a good idea?
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    If it keeps them from sneaking off and getting killed when their uncle or dad isn't around to save them . . . Probably?

    This is a world that trains kids from pre-pubescence to be hunstmen and huntresses. Jobs which by all indications take a tremendous tole and possess a high mortality rate. Where orphaned kids train themselves into Ninjas (Ren) or strong-women (Nora) in order to kill monsters faster.

    I mean Ruby is barely out of tweenhood and she can kill things bigger and considerably more aggressive than a kodiak bear. And this is considered exceptional but not unheard of for a person her age.

    Remnant does not follow the normal rules in this regard.

    I'm not trying to be snarky or rude, sorry if it comes across like that really sleepy and I'm not entirely sure what we're discussing anymore. Plus we were still discussing Tai's behaviour originally in leaving his two very small upset children alone, or at least seemingly so and emotionally so regardless, in a house in a forest with Grim.
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    No I get what you're saying. I have a habit of walking in on conversations.

    Mostly I'm taking Tai and Qrow as a unit since Qrow was apparently around enough to make a major impression on the childhood of both of his nieces. In that case Taiyang may have left the house knowing that Qrow would be watching the girls. He may not have realized what Qrow meant by 'watching' but that's something I can forgive given his likely emotional state at the time.

    Plenty of loving and caring parents have had episodes where they can't do their kids any good. The best of them recognize this and seek help from friends and family while they work their own problems out. And if that's what happened, honestly I can't fault Tai-Yang, it's not selfish to know you can't be at your best for your kids and need to do something to get better.

    Tai-Yang just had the misfortune of falling back on the help of a guy who might be a bit of an asshole.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    No I get what you're saying. I have a habit of walking in on conversations.
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    I can't say I really mind, you're more or less getting at what I was trying to.

    Or rather, your reasoning is why I don't think him leaving was particularly negligent from grief, they (well Yang at least) should have known better than to leave.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    If it keeps them from sneaking off and getting killed when their uncle or dad isn't around to save them . . . Probably?

    This is a world that trains kids from pre-pubescence to be hunstmen and huntresses. Jobs which by all indications take a tremendous tole and possess a high mortality rate. Where orphaned kids train themselves into Ninjas (Ren) or strong-women (Nora) in order to kill monsters faster.

    I mean Ruby is barely out of tweenhood and she can kill things bigger and considerably more aggressive than a kodiak bear. And this is considered exceptional but not unheard of for a person her age.

    Remnant does not follow the normal rules in this regard.
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    But said uncle was only not around because in your idea he chose not to be and while I agree Remnant van and logically would be harsher in some respects this isn't five year old Yang wandering into the woods with Ruby for a laugh, its a grieving five year old looking for her mother after their broke down and left them and their uncle didn't turn up, at that point, given where they live the woods are probably as dangerous as the house and in either case this isn't a "normal" situation or head space for the kids to be in.

    Triggerhappy said:
    Tai-Yang just had the misfortune of falling back on the help of a guy who might be a bit of an asshole.
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    I think leaving them in the hands of a grieving drunk who wasn't physically present still counts as negligent and that still relies on him actually having sought Qrow out before leaving his kids in the house alone.
     
    Zam said:
    I think leaving them in the hands of a grieving drunk who wasn't physically present still counts as negligent and that still relies on him actually having sought Qrow out before leaving his kids in the house alone.
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    I think the misunderstanding here is that we have limited information and we're both filling the blanks in differently. You assume that Qrow was not at all present and raced to find Yang and Ruby when he discovered they were missing. While I assume that Qrow was present, Tai-Yang knew, but did not know that Qrow declined to reveal himself until after the fact.

    I could be remembering wrong but I don't think this was Yang getting bored and wandering off. She bolted the second she thought she was in the clear and took Ruby with her.
     
    Didn't this discussion start as a question of who can give Yang a pep-talk in the present day? What kind of shape Tai was in a decade ago doesn't seem like it would be all that relevant - he seems perfectly functional now, based on what we've seen of him, and what Ruby and Yang have said about him (as far as what he's like now is concerned). So I don't see why he wouldn't capable of providing that pep-talk.

    ...not that that would be enough to instantly pull Yang out of her depression, of course. (Or at least, it shouldn't be enough if the writers give the plotline the weight it deserves, and don't rush through her development.) But given that Tai has experience with working through depression himself, and the fact that Yang learned to fight from him in the first place, I'm having trouble thinking of anyone (as far as already-existing characters go, anyway) who would be better suited to helping her at the moment, and to eventually getting her back in fighting shape.
     
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    I'm only talking about ten years ago Tai, current one seems more or less fine and may be good for helping Yang through her depression.
    Triggerhappy said:
    I think the misunderstanding here is that we have limited information and we're both filling the blanks in differently. You assume that Qrow was not at all present and raced to find Yang and Ruby when he discovered they were missing. While I assume that Qrow was present, Tai-Yang knew, but did not know that Qrow declined to reveal himself until after the fact.

    I could be remembering wrong but I don't think this was Yang getting bored and wandering off. She bolted the second she thought she was in the clear and took Ruby with her.
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    That does seem to be the case, though even in that context we seem to have different feelings on what that behaviour would mean.

    Sorry I misspoke, I was trying to say that, to me, though I expect it was unintentional, the way you were phrasing Yang leaving with Ruby was like it was just some kids being silly decision that 'needed' to be scared out of her, as opposed to Yang and Ruby grieving over their lost mother, their father shutting down and leaving them alone in a house in the woods where Grim live and Yang desperately seeking out her birth mother in the hopes of well, presumably love and safety. That is to say, I feel that Yang's decision was born of very unique circumstances and that she'd have never normally wandered into the Grim wilderness.
     
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