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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • ElMariachi said:
    That could had been chalked up to the fact that Alyx was a mean person in the fairy tale and/or general EA alien fae morality, although retrospectively that was indeed the first sign of CC's malevolence.
    But the thing with Hawker was the first time he did something that was wrong, even if that was to help the heroes.
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    To be honest I was not sure if that scene counted as it seemed like a progressing-the-story-don't-over-think-it kind of event.

    RWBYJ all running away from the Jabberwalkers and leaving the Afterans to fight off the monsters that can perma-kill them seemed a bit out of character.

    It was all very spur of the moment.




    CC's whimsical Fae vibe makes it hard to spot any instances where they are acting with intentional wickedness or duplicity.
    Maybe the Cat is not paying attention, maybe RWBY 'never asked', etc.

    But the first time CC unambiguously tips their hand is here.

    Note how CC is caught out in a clear deception on an important issue and note how their response is to deflect and try to make it about Jaune.




    Thinking about it now, I suspect that Jaune was CC's original escape plan before Ruby (and then Neo) came along.

    There were plenty of opportunities for CC to perform their purpose and ascend the Paper Pleasers when Jaune was not around.

    But if Jaune could be made to crack up either through mental strain over time and/or CC ascending the PPs at the worst possible moment, then the Cat had a potential vessel in waiting.

    Certainly CC's last bit of dialogue is suggestive of this: "You can't even accept your own futility!"


    Similarly, I think Jaune's dislike of the Cat goes beyond mere opposition to their purpose.
    By comparison, the PPs wanting to ascend themselves and each other is something he merely views as frustratingly misguided.

    But Jaune noticeably bristles when the Cat is first mentioned by RWBY.

    We don't actually know the specifics of his first misadventure with CC, but something about the Cats behavior (and subsequent disappearance from his life) seems to have earned Jaune's distrust.

    The line he utters when justifying why he won't allow the PPs ascend is illuminating in this regard: "Afterans are all either too clever, too stupid or too crazy to trust!"

    The 'too clever' assertion is interesting.

    You could see why he'd think 'too stupid' or 'too crazy' applies to Afterans; he probably thinks both these labels apply to the PPs.
    But these labels suggest innocence and naivety - and thus a distrust born of perceived childishness and witlessness.

    By comparison a distrust born out of perceived cleverness suggests guile and a willingness to use it for ones own advantage.

    I'd imagine the Afteran Jaune is thinking of when he says "too clever" to trust is the Curious Cat.
    ("Too crazy" might apply as well, but then that is kind of a universal trait in the Ever After by human standards.)
     
    in regards to the recent talk
    What we saw with the Cat and Jaune is kind of what we had back in Atlas.
    We were unsure of if Ironwood and The Cat could be trusted, and they were paired vs Jacques and Jaune respectively. Both Jac and Jaune were clearly more questionable, for different reasons, so we were lulled to trust Ironwood and The Cat.
    We all knew Jac was a scumbag so most of us did not see the warning signs of the confrontation between him and Ironwood during the Mistral Arc. While normally we would trust Jaune because he has been one of our Protags since the start it was very clear that his years in the ever after changed him, not to mention Cat's mention of the Rusted Knight being "a few sandberries short".
    Critics can claim CRWBY are shit writers all they want, but time and again the CRWBY team keeps to pull fast ones on the audience and surprise them with their misdirection.
     
    Pugman said:
    in regards to the recent talk
    What we saw with the Cat and Jaune is kind of what we had back in Atlas.
    We were unsure of if Ironwood and The Cat could be trusted, and they were paired vs Jacques and Jaune respectively. Both Jac and Jaune were clearly more questionable, for different reasons, so we were lulled to trust Ironwood and The Cat.
    We all knew Jac was a scumbag so most of us did not see the warning signs of the confrontation between him and Ironwood during the Mistral Arc. While normally we would trust Jaune because he has been one of our Protags since the start it was very clear that his years in the ever after changed him, not to mention Cat's mention of the Rusted Knight being "a few sandberries short".
    Critics can claim CRWBY are shit writers all they want, but time and again the CRWBY team keeps to pull fast ones on the audience and surprise them with their misdirection.
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    If I recall correctly, wasn't Jaune being compared to Ironwood though? Especially regarding how he handled the Paper Pleasers?
     
    Sister 1

    View: https://twitter.com/AG_Nonsuch/status/1645096487179649026


    Sister 2

    View: https://twitter.com/AG_Nonsuch/status/1645160912330846209


    Duality

    View: https://twitter.com/greenteatattoos/status/1645208469312552961


    How They React

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/sevenofreds/714167683373006848/i-just-realized-both-ruby-and-yang-react-to-the


    "A Very Merry Unbirthday"

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/the-sayuri-rin/714120035435692032/okay-but-they-took-litterally-this-and-twisted-it


    Zam said:
    I viewed them leaving that fight as them feeling Neo was only there for them and feeling that removing themselves from the area was the best call. That and cos the Rusted Knight suggested it and they don't really know the area well enough to know if sticking around and duking it out is a good call.
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    Them as a team VS 1 enemy - no problem

    Them VS a now unknown number of enemies and the threat of Neo looming - fall back and regroup
     
    Pugman said:
    Yes he was. And???
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    So basically by this point the fans were like "Jaune is acting like Ironwood so he must be the bad guy!" and then suddenly it's like "oh shit, he was right all along, the cat is actually evil, and he was being used to set up our expectations like Jacques was with Ironwood".
     
    Psyga315 said:
    So basically by this point the fans were like "Jaune is acting like Ironwood so he must be the bad guy!" and then suddenly it's like "oh shit, he was right all along, the cat is actually evil, and he was being used to set up our expectations like Jacques was with Ironwood".
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    Nope.

    Jaune is a fucking wreck whose reasons for distrusting CC were based on trauma and guilt over his own actions, and his opinions had a considerable grain of salt attached and still do.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Nope.

    Jaune is a fucking wreck whose reasons for distrusting CC were based on trauma and guilt over his own actions, and his opinions had a considerable grain of salt attached and still do.
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    Jaune was still wrong about the Paper Pleasers, his plan was basically just a holding pattern like Ozpin's and his reasons for being opposed to CC weren't actually based on rational thinking but circumstantial evidence that didn't even identify the problem correctly because he thinks ascension is evil rather than knowing the cat is a body snatcher.
     
    Interestingly, Jaune was right about the Cat….but for the wrong reasons.

    He very explicitly doesn't trust Curious Cat because of it's role in Ascension towards the tree: or what his conjecture told him was its role. But the Cat is evil and hostile because it is working against the Tree and Ascension, hollowing out Ruby and stopping her from healing.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    So basically by this point the fans were like "Jaune is acting like Ironwood so he must be the bad guy!" and then suddenly it's like "oh shit, he was right all along, the cat is actually evil, and he was being used to set up our expectations like Jacques was with Ironwood".
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    I don't think anyone outside of Jaune haters honestly thought Jaune of all people was going to be the bad guy of this volume. -.-
    He was being like Ironwood in the sense that he was being controlling of the situation with the Paper Pleasers and that they (and RWBY) didn't know better and whatnot.
    He is like Jac in the sense that he is being used to distract us from the danger of another character like how Jac was the distraction to the danger of Ironwood loosing his marbles. "You need to get a grip" vs "a few sandberries short"
    He is like Ozpin, as Zam says, because he is stuck in a holding pattern.
     
    It's a Wonderful Life


    Darth Vader said:
    I love this. It perfectly articulates stuff I had been thinking and feeling and considering in a way I had been struggling to even put into coherent words. Awesome. I feel strangely validated lol

    Also got some neat knowledge on themes, so that was cool too.
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    Trust me, if you have a tumblr account they are worth following and occasionally spitballing ideas with.
    Doing so might help those ideas of yours become articulated.
     
    The situations are similar in that we are given credible and accurate reasons to doubt the accuser, but in the end they were still right.

    Jacques accuses Ironwood of abusing and overstepping his authority to the detriment of Atlas and Mantle.
    The audience dismisses the accusations because Jacques is an explicitly abusive racist and capitalist who is literally only upset about his shrinking profit margins. And because Ironwood has been on the heroes' side for Volumes.
    Ironwood was and did abuse and overstep his authority to the detriment of Atlas and Mantle.

    Jaune accuses Curious Cat of being a malicious, cruel, and manipulitive liar who was going to get Team RWBY killed.
    The audience dismisses his claim because Jaune is demonstratably traumatized in several ways and admits to doubting his own decisions and actions. And because Curious Cat has been guiding and protecting the heroes for several episodes.
    Curious Cat was a manipulative liar deliberately acting cruel with the malicious intent of body-jacking Ruby.
     
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    How much more messed up would it have been if Clover were instead someone who was getting evacuated before being bombed by Cinder or even a member of FNKI as though to confirm they died?
     
    Psyga315 said:
    How much more messed up would it have been if Clover were instead someone who was getting evacuated before being bombed by Cinder or even a member of FNKI as though to confirm they died?
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    That would narratively require
    Ruby to know they died. Ruby didn't know any of those civilians that got blasted off. We don't know if Ruby knows what became of FNKI. Not like there was time for a headcount.
     
    Pugman said:
    That would narratively require
    Neo to know they died. Ruby didn't know any of those civilians that got blasted off. We don't know if Ruby knows what became of FNKI. Not like there was time for a headcount.
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    Remember,
    she's the one in control of the hallucination. But just imagine the tea party turning into the crowd of evacuees who are like "you promised to save us" before recreating their deaths.
     
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