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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • revanninja said:
    And in reference to the police question if everyone has it then the police are just as empowered as the criminals so status quo is kept.
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    Yeah. Its a good thing that stuff like illusion Semblances don't work on people with an active Aura-

    Oh wait. They do.

    But apparently that's something never before dealt with in Remnant, effectively giving Cinder an 'I win' button now that she has not just one, but two people with illusion related abilities.
     
    At first I was, and still sort of am, inclined to regard Emerald's Semblance being so unheard of as very weird however I do feel it can be explained a bit at least.

    Semblance's seem to be hard to get in the first place, yes all of RWBY have one but they seem to be some of the best of the best and they have backgrounds being trained by high level warriors and could be said to come from backgrounds that give them advantages when it comes to mastering combat. Chances are not all people with Awakened Auras have as many skilled people surrounding them, aid for training, chances for combat ETC. I mean plenty of students in the tournament seemingly haven't shown their Semblances, though that could also be them restraining themselves for strategic purposes. Still, as it stands Semblances could perhaps be said to be a fifty fifty thing where lots of Aura Users are concerned, I mean, just look at Junior and the twins.

    Next I feel that people developing Semblance's like Emerald's might not be that common. Beyond the "every Semblance is unique" thing, chances are most Aura Users are being trained as warriors, with intent to fight and destroy the enemy in a direct and violent fashion and as Semblances seem to reflect something about the use (possibly) such a subtle Semblance that may not work on Grim and is so sneaky may not mesh with those who choose to become warriors but would fit well with someone who steals for a living over fighting.

    Finally there's just how it works, chances are that people who do develop Semblance's like Emeralds don't go around talking about them much both to avoid advertising what they can do which would make them vulnerable and it may not suit their personalities. For comparisons sake RWBY isn't like a Shounen where the hero or villain need to explain 'how' they determined an enemies weakness or want to explain their power, Semblances and other techniques seem to be somehting people keep to themselves and amongst friends. So unless someone advertised their Semblance or was too blatant in their use of it, theoretically someone could use such a Semblance throughout their whole lives with no one the wiser simply because it only affects the victim and there's no signs of it being active that are obvious expect, probably, under strenuous testing.

    Plus Cinder may have Emerald listed with a different Semblance or possessing none and there may not be the technology advanced enough yet, at least used publicly, to detect someone using a Semblance on another person and even if there is such evidence may have disappeared before they could get it to the victim at which point proving it becomes a case of he said she said and its probably pretty easy to pretend to be someone without a Semblance or to not even get picked up as being involved at all if the user is careful meaning the more probable options may be considered seeing as stress induced hallucinations seem to be at least somewhat common or known in the Hunting and military communities.

    Granted none of these or even all of them together make an iron clad case saying "Emerald not getting picked up and no one "seemingly" considering illusions makes perfect sense" just that I think these might make a little sense. Plus people often tend to seek out the easiest answer at least in the heat of the moment and with believable cause. Again, not really trying to argue here just offering my perspective on why it may not be as dumb as it might seem at first. Granted how Cinder found Emerald is another matter but who knows, maybe she was lucky?
     
    Zam said:
    Granted none of these or even all of them together make an iron clad case saying "Emerald not getting picked up and no one "seemingly" considering illusions makes perfect sense" just that I think these might make a little sense. Plus people often tend to seek out the easiest answer at least in the heat of the moment and with believable cause. Again, not really trying to argue here just offering my perspective on why it may not be as dumb as it might seem at first. Granted how Cinder found Emerald is another matter but who knows, maybe she was lucky?
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    Even ignoring Emerald in particular, surely illusion semblances have shown up before. Or teleportation, or incredibly broken things like polarity/control over metal. To someone focused on security, much less an organization like the military, it has to drive them mad. What's to stop someone from teleporting into the chamber for the (not-actually-since-there's-no-sign-of-any-monarchy-whatsoever) Kingdom of Vale's council and killing everyone in there? Or teleporting onto Ironwoods ships and taking them all out from the inside? What's to stop someone with a power like Pyrrha's from walking up to a bank vault, ripping the door off the hinges, and taking everything inside?

    And I'd think Emerald serves as a good example of the flip side, since she was apparently able to develop a Semblance living as a street rat in the city somewhere, so its not like its impossible to do without any training.
     
    Azecreth said:
    Yeah. Its a good thing that stuff like illusion Semblances don't work on people with an active Aura-

    Oh wait. They do.

    But apparently that's something never before dealt with in Remnant, effectively giving Cinder an 'I win' button now that she has not just one, but two people with illusion related abilities.
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    Except Neo creates a Physical illusion that can be shattered her Illusions arent as powerful as Emeralds are but can be seen by more then one person.

    Emerald has stronger Illusions, and illusions? Try Mind screwing, but has a limit since she says 2 peoples minds are hard and she has a headache from it. She also has issues since when she created a dust cloud while with Amber it wasnt covered so her control isnt complete.

    These arent I win buttons but can be used to make the situation into an I win. Clearly Cinder has put a LOT of thought into this and has planned on how best to use everything to her advantage. Keep in mind how cinder recruited Emerald she was being chased and cinder watched Emerald use her semblance on someone. If it was such an I win ability Emerald should never have been in that situation but she was so she has limits and cinder is doing everything she can to enhance the strengths and limit the weakness of what seems to be a key part of the plan.

    We also dont know how rare the ability actually is and whether the sensors are normally suppose to detect it keep in mind Cinder has CLEARLY hacked the system and we know about it. I have said it before those sensors can detect Aura chances are good they can detect an outside aura being used.

    If I am right it does explain Ironwood's attitude a lot better since the sensors didnt show an Aura in the field and Yang attacked Mercury she either had a breakdown or intentionally attacked a student based on the "hard" evidence of Videos and Sensors.

    And its also entirely possible that Yes Emeralds ability is unique. We are told most Semblances are unique to each individual and that passing down a semblance like with Winter and Weiss is rare.

    So Emerald being a complete unknown in a 1 vs 1 is incredibly powerful but once you start to add more people her abilities start to suffer she also isnt shown creating Illusions and acting at the same time so it may require some concetration on her part to create the mind illusions.

    She may also have range issues since in this Episode she was sitting in the front row seat now that isnt definite since it could also be she needed a clear line of vision in order to create the best illusions its hard to say.

    Azecreth said:
    Even ignoring Emerald in particular, surely illusion semblances have shown up before. Or teleportation, or incredibly broken things like polarity/control over metal. To someone focused on security, much less an organization like the military, it has to drive them mad. What's to stop someone from teleporting into the chamber for the (not-actually-since-there's-no-sign-of-any-monarchy-whatsoever) Kingdom of Vale's council and killing everyone in there? Or teleporting onto Ironwoods ships and taking them all out from the inside? What's to stop someone with a power like Pyrrha's from walking up to a bank vault, ripping the door off the hinges, and taking everything inside?

    And I'd think Emerald serves as a good example of the flip side, since she was apparently able to develop a Semblance living as a street rat in the city somewhere, so its not like its impossible to do without any training.
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    Not impossible just hard to develop like that is what most of us think.
    And some of the answers are limits. Using a Semblance uses a lot of Aura as demonstrated by Flynt so going hog wild isnt possible for long periods of time.
    As for teleportation I am sure there is probably stuff that stops it normally its just with Cinder and Her crew they have been working on this for AWHILE so breaking those guards would be key one to the plan.
     
    Azecreth said:
    Even ignoring Emerald in particular, surely illusion semblances have shown up before. Or teleportation, or incredibly broken things like polarity/control over metal. To someone focused on security, much less an organization like the military, it has to drive them mad. What's to stop someone from teleporting into the chamber for the (not-actually-since-there's-no-sign-of-any-monarchy-whatsoever) Kingdom of Vale's council and killing everyone in there? Or teleporting onto Ironwoods ships and taking them all out from the inside? What's to stop someone with a power like Pyrrha's from walking up to a bank vault, ripping the door off the hinges, and taking everything inside?

    And I'd think Emerald serves as a good example of the flip side, since she was apparently able to develop a Semblance living as a street rat in the city somewhere, so its not like its impossible to do without any training.
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    Part of my argument was centred on how even if they had showed up in the past that doesn't mean they revealed their powers and everyone was aware off them or studied them. revanninja makes a really good point I feel about Cinder having hacked the stadium so if there are detections for such things they've been compromised by this point anyway. As to people focussed on security and what's stopping people from abusing their powers? Nothing I guess. Or at least, I don't feel that the Kingdoms have Anti-Semblance metals or detectors beyond what we've been shown unlike say the World Government in One Piece who have those materials that cancel certain powers. So as we saw with Neo she can just pop into a ship and tear through the soldiers by virtue of being stronger than them. Life's is unfair and the villains have no reasons to play by any rules XD Sorry if that seemed glib, that wasn't my intent.

    She also had weapons, I wouldn't be surprised if she;d had or found some training all things considered though we really can't say.
     
    Azecreth said:
    Yeah. Its a good thing that stuff like illusion Semblances don't work on people with an active Aura-

    Oh wait. They do.

    But apparently that's something never before dealt with in Remnant, effectively giving Cinder an 'I win' button now that she has not just one, but two people with illusion related abilities.
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    It gets better. She also has the world's best hacker on her side, so good that absolutely no one noticed her malware nor was anyone able to cut her feed in any way. She is so trustworthy that when she speaks anonymously via a sinister chess piece screen, everyone believes her. And she can shut down Aura at a distance so that somebody with an active aura can be easily cut apart by wires.

    I'm all for things getting darker, but Cinder has yet to do a single impressive thing other than fighting Glynda in the first episode. Since then it's just been lots of mysterious mumbling and her continually getting handed advantages. It'd be nice if the villain felt threatening and intelligent, instead of like the DM's girl/boyfriend.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    It gets better. She also has the world's best hacker on her side, so good that absolutely no one noticed her malware nor was anyone able to cut her feed in any way. She is so trustworthy that when she speaks anonymously via a sinister chess piece screen, everyone believes her. And she can shut down Aura at a distance so that somebody with an active aura can be easily cut apart by wires.

    I'm all for things getting darker, but Cinder has yet to do a single impressive thing other than fighting Glynda in the first episode. Since then it's just been lots of mysterious mumbling and her continually getting handed advantages. It'd be nice if the villain felt threatening and intelligent, instead of like the DM's girl/boyfriend.
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    Yeah it does come across like that I will give you.

    The hacking thing I think will get explained later from the Cinder flashback it seems Cinder has a Backer someone with a lot of power and pull based on the grim glove. But that is just what I pull from it.

    The Aura thing though no it was just overwhelmed recall the person was seeing a LOT more attacks then actually there and responded as such. Aura does have limits we have been told and that attack was extremely powerful from what I can tell and while this is a show PSI is a thing. If all that energy was being focused along just those strings which looking back at what we saw done with those strings they are super tough what they do is easily believable.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    I'm all for things getting darker, but Cinder has yet to do a single impressive thing other than fighting Glynda in the first episode. Since then it's just been lots of mysterious mumbling and her continually getting handed advantages. It'd be nice if the villain felt threatening and intelligent, instead of like the DM's girl/boyfriend.
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    Illusion magic is OP plz rbalance kthnx :cool:

    Seriously though. While I don't think Cinder's 'plans' have gone into memetic-keikaku territory the way some people do, if anything for the talent at her disposal it's almost too mundane, I do have problems with it centered on Emerald's power.

    Emerald's semblance is basically a big blob of universal plot goo to hold everything together. Part of what makes a plan interesting is creating, at least the impression, that a clever slight of hand is going on. But no, it's just illusions all the way down.

    Anzer'ke said:
    It gets better. She also has the world's best hacker on her side, so good that absolutely no one noticed her malware nor was anyone able to cut her feed in any way. She is so trustworthy that when she speaks anonymously via a sinister chess piece screen, everyone believes her. And she can shut down Aura at a distance so that somebody with an active aura can be easily cut apart by wires.
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    I answered this part second because it doesn't bug me quite so much.

    Even Google and Amazon find bugs and security gaps in their software on a disturbingly regular basis. And a lot of exploits are discovered only after the fact.

    There was a series of rigged lottery drawings not too long ago that were only discovered because the winners all had some connection to a member of the Lottery Commission.

    So the idea that cinder could hijack the lot drawings for the tournament, get her hands on some classified files, and hijack a few minutes of air time, isn't really that absurd.
     
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    So . . .

    Does anyone else think it's ironic that Cinder actually has a point about the power the Headmaster's wield? And the total lack of consent they wield it with?

    I suppose that's sort of the point, even a liar can use the truth when it serves them.
     
    At this point, I honestly can't tell if Cinder is aiming to take over the city or raze it to the ground.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    I answered this part second because it doesn't bug me quite so much.

    Even Google and Amazon find bugs and security gaps in their software on a disturbingly regular basis. And a lot of exploits are discovered only after the fact.

    There was a series of rigged lottery drawings not too long ago that were only discovered because the winners all had some connection to a member of the Lottery Commission.

    So the idea that cinder could hijack the lot drawings for the tournament, get her hands on some classified files, and hijack a few minutes of air time, isn't really that absurd.
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    The idea that a person could do any of those things by exploiting holes in the system isn't too absurd. I mean, yes, the biggest security gap that gets exploited is the one at the keyboard, but the idea of hackers primarily doing tech stuff is pretty ingrained in society. The issue is more the extent of it: she's not doing one of those, she's doing all of them. And with a single program inserted into a single source, from which she controls everything. This isn't something that impossible per say, but it does require either that the entire computer network has 0 security in it's design. Including the military stuff.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    It gets better. She also has the world's best hacker on her side, so good that absolutely no one noticed her malware nor was anyone able to cut her feed in any way. She is so trustworthy that when she speaks anonymously via a sinister chess piece screen, everyone believes her. And she can shut down Aura at a distance so that somebody with an active aura can be easily cut apart by wires.
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    Cinder's speech really doesn't rely on people believing her.

    Point in fact, it's hard to tell if anyone believes her because at the moment, people are focusing on the more pressing matter of the Grimm telling them to bite the pillow, because they're going in dry.

    As for turning off Aura.....she didn't.

    We know Aura can be overwhelmed and broken through. Hell, it happened only a couple episodes ago with Weiss.

    Penny's wires are some super strong material that, despite being so thin that you can't see them without perfect positioning, they can do things like hold down an air ship or lift up giant fucking boulders.

    It's not surprising that they cut her up like that.
     
    So I saw the newest episode. I think it's a bit funny about how much of Cinder's overall plan relies on Emerald's Semblance. She surely knows how to make the best of what she works with.

    Now I'm imagining that when Cinder found Emerald and what she could do, she went "Oh, I just hit the jackpot".
     
    C.o.S.a.R said:
    The idea that a person could do any of those things by exploiting holes in the system isn't too absurd. I mean, yes, the biggest security gap that gets exploited is the one at the keyboard, but the idea of hackers primarily doing tech stuff is pretty ingrained in society. The issue is more the extent of it: she's not doing one of those, she's doing all of them. And with a single program inserted into a single source, from which she controls everything. This isn't something that impossible per say, but it does require either that the entire computer network has 0 security in it's design. Including the military stuff.
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    Didn't she upload her virus from an admin terminal? not much security can stop that. and to gain access to new systems as the virus is in control of the ISP all it needs to do is monitor the communications until it picks up passwords.
     
    Imrix said:
    At this point, I honestly can't tell if Cinder is aiming to take over the city or raze it to the ground.
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    She's throwing the full might of the Grimm and whatever's left of the Fang here in Vale at a city that she just threw into chaos.

    Regardless of what her plan is, chaos is going to reign here and people are going to die. And the worst part is this probably to get to something besides Amber/Autumn/The Fall Maiden.
     
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