Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • Psyga315 said:
    Why is it that he officially sanctioned them to be Huntsmen in this very moment if not to have them help Mantle out?

    Ironwood may have done bad shit, but Brothers damn it if he doesn't also try to do right.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Do they actually need his sanction to help in Mantle? Isn't that, largely, their prerogative, regardless of his feelings on the matter?

    Also, I'm not sure how much credit he should get for telling someone else —someone who's not under his authority— to help, especially not so long after things became a problem. It's not like he was having this conversation when he started with the blockade.
     
    Two teams, no matter how good, aren't a magic fix. Ironwood was still choosing to leave the wall in a state of disrepair, increasing the odds of Grimm entering the city and endangering innocents, all for a project that wasn't time critical. It's a good example of how he had good intentions, but failed badly in the execution.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Two teams, no matter how good, aren't a magic fix. Ironwood was still choosing to leave the wall in a state of disrepair, increasing the odds of Grimm entering the city and endangering innocents, all for a project that wasn't time critical. It's a good example of how he had good intentions, but failed badly in the execution.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    MonochromeXClown said:
    Yeah Ironwood was basically rushing for a Science victory in the form of Amity with all that entails and risk it brings.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Even if there was a sense of urgency, that would just raise questions about why he didn't set up a quicker, temporary, patch job while working on the arena. For example, station some Atlas airships along major corridors between the other CCT towers and have them act as signal repeaters. Sure, they won't help people in between the major cities, particularly if they aren't on one of the major routes, and the bandwidth and latency probably won't be great, but it would still be better than complete isolation and it could earn Atlas a lot of diplomatic credit for a relatively small investment.
     
    Here's something to consider. Ironwood's thinking was that helping the other Kingdoms prepare for Salem and restestablishing communications was more important than the homefront, very ass backwards thinking in general. But it leads one to think, if he barely cares about part of his own country, what do you think his help for other kingdoms would look like, and what would he do if he other kingdoms didn't want his help after the whole closing the border thing.
     
    Darmani said:
    True he ks flawed with a messiah/atlas complex not needlessly warmongering just...a little unempathetic
    Just it catches up to him
    Just...frustrated not so with our heroes
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    And everyone threatens to nuke the people that are supposed to be able to rely on them when someone else does more to help them, right?
    ArtFartCop said:
    Some fans really have made up the most elaborate rewrite fanfic in their heads to frame James and all of his actions going back to Volume 2 as proof he was always gonna be evil.

    It's kinda funny in a sad way, especially because it shows a chronic lack of understanding. James' fall fundamentally doesn't work if he was evil from the start (which he wasn't, half the point of Volume 7 is pushing him to a breaking point which Volume 8 follows up on with dubious results). Heroic fall arcs require a hero to begin with. It's like trying to tell the story of Darth Vader without showing any of Anakin's redeeming qualities. All the attempts to make James a secret dickbag from the start do just infantilize him and his writing.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Not a dickbag, but an authoritarian with poor planning despite his best intentions and not enough people able to tell him no in the face of his worst impulses once Ozpin is gone who's paranoia kept making the situation worse long before Salem decided to deal with Atlas.
    Psyga315 said:
    Here are the receipts, as quite cleverly stated.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    People can be well intentioned and still be shady because of how they follow those intentions.
    Psyga315 said:
    No, but it is bringing up how people were convinced Ironwood was chaotic evil back from Volume 2, which was more or less what @excalibur2008 is trying to say.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    A guy too obsessed with having the bigger boot to realize that his laws are harmful is not a chaotic evil kind of thing at all though? The term has a meaning, and honestly Tyrian is probably the only one who's completely that so far.
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Do they actually need his sanction to help in Mantle? Isn't that, largely, their prerogative, regardless of his feelings on the matter?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Well Ace Ops could arrest them if they do it without his permission, like they did the first time they met, even though Qrow was already a licensed Huntsman.
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Even if there was a sense of urgency, that would just raise questions about why he didn't set up a quicker, temporary, patch job while working on the arena. For example, station some Atlas airships along major corridors between the other CCT towers and have them act as signal repeaters. Sure, they won't help people in between the major cities, particularly if they aren't on one of the major routes, and the bandwidth and latency probably won't be great, but it would still be better than complete isolation and it could earn Atlas a lot of diplomatic credit for a relatively small investment.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    But then he couldn't have his entire security blanket fleet orbiting Atlas and only Atlas to protect what really mattered to him.
    Teen Spirit said:
    Here's something to consider. Ironwood's thinking was that helping the other Kingdoms prepare for Salem and restestablishing communications was more important than the homefront, very ass backwards thinking in general. But it leads one to think, if he barely cares about part of his own country, what do you think his help for other kingdoms would look like, and what would he do if he other kingdoms didn't want his help after the whole closing the border thing.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    How long would his ships have even stayed in any of the other Kingdoms the moment he had any reason to suspect one of Salem's forces was even close to Atlas?
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Here's something to consider. Ironwood's thinking was that helping the other Kingdoms prepare for Salem and restestablishing communications was more important than the homefront, very ass backwards thinking in general. But it leads one to think, if he barely cares about part of his own country, what do you think his help for other kingdoms would look like, and what would he do if he other kingdoms didn't want his help after the whole closing the border thing.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Ironwood had a bad habit of focusing on the grand gesture, without considering the actual details. For instance, all the villages outside the major cities, and the fact Vale in particular was almost certainly going to refuse his fleet entry, especially after he closed his borders for months and left them to fend for themselves. I suspect that people refusing his authority never seriously occured to him.

    And that's before the fact that his military clearly wasn't up to the task of peacekeeping the entire world anyway...
     
    GuestLurker said:
    Well Ace Ops could arrest them if they do it without his permission, like they did the first time they met, even though Qrow was already a licensed Huntsman.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    That was for entering Atlas on a stolen Atlesian airship, not acting as a huntsman. If I recall correctly, Ace Ops didn't really know who they were at the time and got chewed out as soon as they got to Winter.

    Matrix Dragon said:
    Ironwood had a bad habit of focusing on the grand gesture, without considering the actual details. For instance, all the villages outside the major cities, and the fact Vale in particular was almost certainly going to refuse his fleet entry, especially after he closed his borders for months and left them to fend for themselves. I suspect that people refusing his authority never seriously occured to him.

    And that's before the fact that his military clearly wasn't up to the task of peacekeeping the entire world anyway...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Interestingly, Oz suffers from a similar flaw, though his grand gestures seem to focus more on monuments and individual heroes, rather than military actions. We can see this in his handling of the Maidens, Ruby, the Vytal Tournament, and Atlas itself.

    Come to think of it, Oz also has a bit of a problem with paranoia and not having advisors who can tell him when he's being stupid or short-sighted. In a way, Ironwood fell because he modeled himself on Oz, but with all the flaws turned WAY up, and that wasn't an entirely unreasonable thing to do. After all, Oz is supposed to be a wise immortal, who's been doing this for longer than anyone can remember and who really should have his act together by this point.
     
    Last edited:
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Interestingly, Oz suffers from a similar flaw, though his grand gestures seem to focus more on monuments and individual heroes, rather than military actions. We can see this in his handling of the Maidens, Ruby, the Vytal Tournament, and Atlas itself.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    And also treating them as secrets not to be shared with everyone, something that Salem used to her advantage.
     
    One of RWBY's themes is how the adults are all ruled by their fears.

    Oz is a paranoid, lying secret-keeper.
    Qrow is a perpetually drunk cynic.
    Raven runs away, hides, and sacrifices others.
    Lionheart grovels and does whatever he's asked.
    Ironwood uses the Atlesian military as a security blanket.
     
    Leingod said:
    No it wasn't. They specifically say it's for having weapons, never bring up the airship, and completely ignore Maria even though she was with them on the airship because she doesn't have a weapon (that they know of).
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Why do I have this weird feeling of deja vu?
    Psyga315 said:
    Clover: Doctor, good to see you. Well, we heard a report of an unauthorized ship making an unauthorized landing, followed by an unauthorized use of weapons by unlicensed Huntsmen.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He literally says it before even bringing that up.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He also brings it up first, implying that's the reason they're getting arrested, with the unauthorized use of weapons being a bonus charge.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    That was for entering Atlas on a stolen Atlesian airship, not acting as a huntsman. If I recall correctly, Ace Ops didn't really know who they were at the time and got chewed out as soon as they got to Winter.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    That's what Clover claimed, but his claim was also BS cos they ignored Maria who was part of their group and the actual flier, meaning he had no proof they were the one's who stole the airship and he also noted that it was illegal for Mantle residents to be armed or defend against Grimm and Qrow being a Hunter meant nothing as well.

    EDIT:
    My best guess is they arrested the team for fighting off the Grimm but when Qrow said he had a license Clover was like "Yeah no but" and pulled the stolen airship out of his ass to use as a pretense to continue the arrest and he just happened to get lucky.
     
    Last edited:
    Zam said:
    That's what Clover claimed, but his claim was also BS cos they ignored Maria who was part of their group and the actual flier, meaning he had no proof they were the one's who stole the airship and he also noted that it was illegal for Mantle residents to be armed or defend against Grimm and Qrow being a Hunter meant nothing as well.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I'd forgotten about that part and, while I didn't think too much about it at the time, beyond disliking how easily the main cast went down, it really should have been setting off authoritarian alarm bells. I don't think random people walking around armed was an issue literally anywhere else they went, so the fact that it is an issue in the one city where Grimm regularly breach the walls is not a good sign.
     
    Clover was kinda bullshit like that, wasn't he?

    Epsilon Rose said:
    I'd forgotten about that part and, while I didn't think too much about it at the time, beyond disliking how easily the main cast went down, it really should have been setting off authoritarian alarm bells. I don't think random people walking around armed was an issue literally anywhere else they went, so the fact that it is an issue in the one city where Grimm regularly breach the walls is not a good sign.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Yuuuuup. Also the fact that the Aceops had to have been setting up the ambush while Penny was there talking to them, as opposed to dealing with Grimm has always sat wrong with me.

    In other news, amusing thought of STRQs initiation test. Namely, that Raven probably used 'Portal to Qrow' as her landing strategy. :p
     
    Emo Phase

    View: https://fillmargarin.tumblr.com/post/682693425522442240/ruby-in-her-emo-phase


    looks

    View: https://fillmargarin.tumblr.com/post/682505979502477312/v9-looks-good


    Spys x Nuts x Dolts

    View: https://fillmargarin.tumblr.com/post/682545875180994560/lil-penny-looking-at-shy-dorks



    OK so I had a thought.
    For Emerald and Mercury......I think part of why Merc has seemed to look out for Emerald from time to time, is because he saw her as someone in a similar position to what he was in. Cinder being abusive to Emerald - Marcus being abusive to Mercury.

    another thought.
    Marcus Blake did not actually "steal" Mercury's Semblance, but instead "sealed" it and only claimed to take it. Mercury will reclaim it once he breaks free from the shadow of the assassin and he'll once more spread his true wings.
     
    I'm unsure about Mercury reclaiming his Semblance, there's something to be said for not being able to undo a traumatic event or loss but growing beyond it. On the other hand, Mercury's Semblance being winged feet that let him fly and that coinciding with a sense of liberation would be wow.
     
    Zam said:
    I'm unsure about Mercury reclaiming his Semblance, there's something to be said for not being able to undo a traumatic event or loss but growing beyond it. On the other hand, Mercury's Semblance being winged feet that let him fly and that coinciding with a sense of liberation would be wow.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Mercury (the god) is famous for inventing the lyre, a pretty important musical instrument at the time. Could be nice if flashbacks reveal that Mercury's (the character) original Semblance was some kind of super music Semblance. Like whenever he played music he could infuse his music with Aura to create breathakingly beatiful sounds that could soothe troubled thoughts, maybe heal wounds and even calm the Grimm.


    Get this sense that Mercury had the potential to bring something truly wonderful into the world and change it for the better, and then his father tore it all down and ruined it.


    Mercury wouldn't ever be able to get that original Semblance back but he could one day develop a new one, such as the winged feet that let him fly as he finally breaks free from the metaphorical chains his father has held him down with even after his demise. Although the boots already kind of evoked the winged feet imagery and give pseudo-flight already. And Mercury already has winged feet as a symbol, so that might be a reference to the Semblance that he lost.


    So maybe instead reverse it. He had wings and could fly with total freedom before his father tore him down and stripped his wings so he'd be forced onto the path his father wanted for him. The invention of the lyre was done by killing and stripping a tortoise, so a music Semblance could be a subtle allusion to taking something broken and making something beatiful from the remains.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Strong disagreement. Actually trying to fix things in Mantle would have been trying to do right. What Ironwood did was basically a half assed patch job that he expected praise for. Ironwood doesn't try to do right, he doesn't make the hard choices, he puts the burdens on everyone else. He's a military strongman who gives barely a crap about anything but the ultra-rich who support him and his own military forces.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Hmm. In result yes. But i think indicating how he gets there is just as important that get there. Or else gets to illusion cannot happen to people 'with us'
    I mean. In the end. Resultantly speaking
    How much control does rwby cede or share?

    Are their failures framed as their fault or antagonist sabotage they couldn't be faulted for?
     
    Last edited:
    Darmani said:
    Hmm. In result yes. But i think indicating how he gets there is just as important that get there. Or else gets to illusion cannot happen to people 'with us'
    I mean. In the end. Resultantly speaking
    How much control does rwby cede or share?

    Are their failures framed as their fault or antagonist sabotage they couldn't be faulted for?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    What "control" did RWBY had? They don't own an army, they don't have a seat in Atlas' council. The only thing they didn't "cede" to Ironwood was the info about Salem's immortality or that there was still one wish left in the lamp, something done because at this point Ironwood raised a shitton of red flag to them, and afterwards there was a split among the heroes on if they did the right thing.
    And in the end Oscar just revealed everything to Ironwood anyway.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top