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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Psyga315 said:
    Yeah, no. He may be militaristic but he's not a warmonger towards his fellow man. Salem was always his enemy.

    The intent with Amity was to reestablish global comms since poor communication causes division and that's what Salem wants.
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    True he ks flawed with a messiah/atlas complex not needlessly warmongering just...a little unempathetic
    Just it catches up to him
    Just...frustrated not so with our heroes
    ElMariachi said:
    Dude was ready to nuke his own city to force them to give him Penny back, he's totally a warmonger even towards his fellow man. Or well, you could argue that it didn't saw the people of Mantle as his "fellow men", in which case you're right.
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    Yeah that was in middle of a clear going bananas sequence. Not that makes it less heinous or necessary to stop him But his plans get blunter and actions more extreme the more pushed That's different from i can't just wait to conquer the world Do note while not repair the wall dedicated penny and hunters to mantle and its citizens He just got lost in big picture wins Also wasn't nuke called out as cobbled together?
     
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    ElMariachi said:
    Dude was ready to nuke his own city to force them to give him Penny back, he's totally a warmonger even towards his fellow man. Or well, you could argue that it didn't saw the people of Mantle as his "fellow men", in which case you're right.
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    He was a warmonger now, but before the whole "Salem at his front door" business made him unhinged, he wasn't.

    People need to remember that he had to snap before he began publicly firing at people and threatening to bomb them.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    He was a warmonger now, but before the whole "Salem at his front door" business made him unhinged, he wasn't.

    People need to remember that he had to snap before he began publicly firing at people and threatening to bomb them.
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    You are talking to people who kept insisting he was the big bad back in Volume 2 despite the show pretty much going no he wasn't back then, and seem to be treating Irownood's turn to villainy as a way to not have to admit they were actually wrong back then.
     
    Some fans really have made up the most elaborate rewrite fanfic in their heads to frame James and all of his actions going back to Volume 2 as proof he was always gonna be evil.

    It's kinda funny in a sad way, especially because it shows a chronic lack of understanding. James' fall fundamentally doesn't work if he was evil from the start (which he wasn't, half the point of Volume 7 is pushing him to a breaking point which Volume 8 follows up on with dubious results). Heroic fall arcs require a hero to begin with. It's like trying to tell the story of Darth Vader without showing any of Anakin's redeeming qualities. All the attempts to make James a secret dickbag from the start do just infantilize him and his writing.
     
    Darmani said:
    Hmmm. What think i am saying or which part really confuses?
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    A lot of your sentences are missing words or have typos and the grammar and syntax are often incorrect in ways that make it hard to decipher.

    Matrix Dragon said:
    There's only one candidate. The true evil that has lurked in plain sight, ignored by all... THE MOON!
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    Bah! The moon is nothing more than a puppet state and decoy. Here's the real enemy:


    View: https://youtu.be/z769xf9ET5A
     
    ArtFartCop said:
    Some fans really have made up the most elaborate rewrite fanfic in their heads to frame James and all of his actions going back to Volume 2 as proof he was always gonna be evil.

    It's kinda funny in a sad way, especially because it shows a chronic lack of understanding. James' fall fundamentally doesn't work if he was evil from the start (which he wasn't, half the point of Volume 7 is pushing him to a breaking point which Volume 8 follows up on with dubious results). Heroic fall arcs require a hero to begin with. It's like trying to tell the story of Darth Vader without showing any of Anakin's redeeming qualities. All the attempts to make James a secret dickbag from the start do just infantilize him and his writing.
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    It's more that he was a good guy but had a lot of negative traits even then. Anakin was good but he had problems that pushed him over the edge
     
    ArtFartCop said:
    Some fans really have made up the most elaborate rewrite fanfic in their heads to frame James and all of his actions going back to Volume 2 as proof he was always gonna be evil.

    It's kinda funny in a sad way, especially because it shows a chronic lack of understanding. James' fall fundamentally doesn't work if he was evil from the start (which he wasn't, half the point of Volume 7 is pushing him to a breaking point which Volume 8 follows up on with dubious results). Heroic fall arcs require a hero to begin with. It's like trying to tell the story of Darth Vader without showing any of Anakin's redeeming qualities. All the attempts to make James a secret dickbag from the start do just infantilize him and his writing.
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    There's a reason why RWBY and Oz's crew trusted him, vouched for him, saved him, and even spared his life when he could no longer be reasoned with.

    Because he was never evil from the start. He had good intentions but flaws that were easily exploitable by the actual villains of the show.

    If Ironwood was this always chaotic evil person as the fans make him out to be, then that says more about the intelligence of the cast than it does of Ironwood's fans, since Qrow and Weiss, in their infinite wisdom, chose to save him when he could easily been erased from the equation either by Grimm or his own men.
     
    For once, I agree with the Pro-Ironwood side. There is no evidence that the nuke was developed to use on humans, and it makes far more sense to have been made to deal with Grimm. Before he went off the deep end, James at least thought he was doing what was best for humanity, even as he made mistake after mistake.
     
    Tylonius said:
    For once, I agree with the Pro-Ironwood side. There is no evidence that the nuke was developed to use on humans, and it makes far more sense to have been made to deal with Grimm. Before he went off the deep end, James at least thought he was doing what was best for humanity, even as he made mistake after mistake.
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    And that's assuming the thing wasn't just something they came up with to deal with the whale since unlike an actual nuke it's probably just going to be a bigger than usual Dust bomb so it's not like Atlas scientists are having to do anything that revolutionary.
     
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    I haven't rewatched Volume 8 since it aired because... well I despised it... but doesn't Ironwood say his scientists made the bomb in response to the whale when briefing Winter and the Ace Ops? As in, it couldn't have been used on humans because it didn't exist before the invasion?

    Edit: Yeah, here's the line, emphasis by me:

    Ironwood: We aren't making any progress attacking the thing from the outside. But from the inside, it could be vulnerable. Science team is putting together a bomb. When it's ready, we'll drop it off as close to the target as possible. Then, your team will deliver it on foot. Sending your rendezvous coordinates now.

    The nuke did not exist in-show until Monstra attacked.
     
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    ArtFartCop said:
    I haven't rewatched Volume 8 since it aired because... well I despised it... but doesn't Ironwood say his scientists made the bomb in response to the whale when briefing Winter and the Ace Ops? As in, it couldn't have been used on humans because it didn't exist before the invasion?

    Edit: Yeah, here's the line, emphasis by me:

    Ironwood: We aren't making any progress attacking the thing from the outside. But from the inside, it could be vulnerable. Science team is putting together a bomb. When it's ready, we'll drop it off as close to the target as possible. Then, your team will deliver it on foot. Sending your rendezvous coordinates now.

    The nuke did not exist in-show until Monstra attacked.
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    I think some people took the nuke equivalent thing too literally and though it would have needed the time frame of The Manhattan Project instead of just being like putting more gun powder in a bigger fancier barrel.
     
    excalibur2008 said:
    You are talking to people who kept insisting he was the big bad back in Volume 2 despite the show pretty much going no he wasn't back then, and seem to be treating Irownood's turn to villainy as a way to not have to admit they were actually wrong back then.
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    Was he a villain up until the end of Volume 7? No.
    Did he showed through the story tendencies that could (and did) foreshadow a possible fall into dictatorship? Definitively so.

    To make a quick comparison, Anakin Skywalker isn't a villain until the end of episode 3, but he did showed through episodes 2 & 3 and the Clone Wars series a penchant for brutal and immoral solutions that blossomed into his fall to the Dark Side.
     
    ElMariachi said:
    Dude was ready to nuke his own city to force them to give him Penny back, he's totally a warmonger even towards his fellow man. Or well, you could argue that it didn't saw the people of Mantle as his "fellow men", in which case you're right.
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    Yeah that was in middle of a clear going bananas sequence. Not that it makes it less heinous or necessary to stop him
    But his plans get blunter and actions more extreme the more pushed

    That's different from " i can't just wait to conquer the world"
    Do note while did not repair the wall, he dedicated penny and hunters to mantle's border and its citizens
    He just got lost in big picture wins

    Also wasn't nuke called out as cobbled together?
    Epsilon Rose said:
    lot of your sentences are missing words or have typos and the grammar and syntax are often incorrect in ways that make it hard to decipher.
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    The specific instance seems to not have that. Also kinda meant to the specific poster, as well. unless wanna work with me on it?
     
    Darmani said:
    The specific instance seems to not have that. Also kinda meant to the specific poster, as well. unless wanna work with me on it?
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    I suspect @Zam is having similar problems with readability, and it's been a consistent issue for most of your posts —or, to be more fair, it's been a problem for most of the ones I've paid attention to and remember, which may not be a representative sample— so I thought I might chime in with why people are having trouble reading what your wrote..

    I'm not sure which post you mean when you say "the specific instance", but if you're referring to the one I quoted, then it's mostly understandable, but missing a few words. If you're referring to the post where you asked if Zam understood, or one of your earlier posts, then there are more issues and it becomes significantly harder to pull out a meaning, in part because there could be multiple meanings depending on how the reader tries to mentally correct things.

    As for helping you with it, that largely depends on what you mean. I'm generally happy to try and explain things or point out errors, but I don't know what your situation is and I probably don't have the time to proofread everything you want to post, so I'm not sure how much help I can be.

    If you're curious, I included a corrected version of the post I initially replied to. It's relatively simple, so it didn't include the more complex, structural, errors found in some of your other posts, but it does show what I mean by missing words.

    Darmani said:
    Hmmm. What [do you] think iI am saying or which part really confuses [you]?
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    Darmani said:
    Do note while did not repair the wall, he dedicated penny and hunters to mantle's border and its citizens
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    Wasn't enough as shown by the start of Volume 7 and Penny was basically being run ragged and was diverted to the Vytal Project. He criminally neglected everything but the richest part of the city.

    He literally didn't upgrade cyber-security despite what happened at Beacon. He actively knew there was a threat but couldn't be asked to upgrade Mantle.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Wasn't enough as shown by the start of Volume 7 and Penny was basically being run ragged and was diverted to the Vytal Project. He criminally neglected everything but the richest part of the city.
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    Probably why he brought this little chestnut up:

    Ironwood: (rubbing the bridge of his nose with his fingers) No. No, you're right. Things in Mantle have been... hard to manage lately. I'm not blind to its issues. In fact, that's what I want to talk to you about.

    He turns and looks up at Amity Colosseum.

    Ironwood: With the launch of this mobile communications tower and tensions down in Mantle, I think there's a lot of good your teams can do here.
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    Why is it that he officially sanctioned them to be Huntsmen in this very moment if not to have them help Mantle out?

    Ironwood may have done bad shit, but Brothers damn it if he doesn't also try to do right.
     
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    Psyga315 said:
    Ironwood may have done bad shit, but Brothers damn it if he doesn't also try to do right.
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    Strong disagreement. Actually trying to fix things in Mantle would have been trying to do right. What Ironwood did was basically a half assed patch job that he expected praise for. Ironwood doesn't try to do right, he doesn't make the hard choices, he puts the burdens on everyone else. He's a military strongman who gives barely a crap about anything but the ultra-rich who support him and his own military forces.
     
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