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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zimmerwald1915 said:
    But as far as character arc v. effect on the world goes, Blake trusting more people, and more wholeheartedly (which is definitely a thing in V8, particularly when it comes to Ruby), is well on the left side of that equation
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    Considering the white fang and faunus issue hoping to see her handle the conflict.
    Note she makes no similar interruption, when had cause or could demonstrate her growth, versus jacques
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Yeah, Ironwood was the one breaking the law then. It's part of why companies in Mantle were so willing to refuse to do business with the military until they actually did their dang jobs.
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    That happened?

    Hmm. Didn't see ironwooda fall like @Pugman

    erttheking said:
    Blake isn't kicking everyone's ass = she's a damsel in distress
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    This started with my objection to weiss uding force to win arguments, especially over Blake's conflicts. I think that is part of the concern but your representation shaves off parts to make it sound worse than is.


    overall...the point is...Once adam died...Blake's been...surprisingly about...not stuff in line with white fang plot.
    I get she is being pulled back after so much focus
    But...she feels like death note post L, ya know? There stuff there but burned out due to overwhelmingpast focus being...gone
    Its just not quality. And frustrating in light of criticism dismissed by defenders.

    I mean is post v5 blake...satisfying?
     
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    Darmani said:
    Considering the white fang and faunus isdue hoping to see her handle the conflict.
    Note she makes ni similar interruption, when had cause or could demonstrate her growth, versus jacques

    That happened?

    Hmm. Didn't see ironwooda fall like @Pugman

    This started with my objection to weiss uding force to win arguments, especially over Blake's conflicts. I think that is part of the concern but your representation shaves off parts to make it sound worse than is.


    oberall...the point is...Once adam died...Blake's been...surprisingly about...not stuff in line with white fang plot.
    I get she is being pulled back after so much focus
    But...she feels like death note post L, ya know? There stuff there but burned out due to overwhelmingpast focus being...gone
    Its just not quality. And frustrating in light of criticism dismissed by defenders.

    I mean is post v5 blake...satisfying?
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    I could barely make heads or tails of the first one, the one with Jac. But to guess you are trying to ask why we didn't see Blake's growth by way of her confronting Jac, right? Well to answer, Blake's story is not connected to Jacques. It's Weiss' story that is connected to him.

    As for Ironwood bending and breaking rules, yes he did. If he wasn't the one causing problems then characters would not have much issue with him. Ironwoods embargo hurt Jac's bottom line and was why Jac was running for council. Ironwoods embargo and general mistreatment of Mantle, especially in diverting needed resources from them, hurt Mantle and that was why Robyn was being Robin Hood AND running for council. Ironwood making and holding that embargo put a strain on the entire Kingdom, and when it was clear the threat Ironwood was claiming to be worried about (other Kingdoms taking action against them for what happened at Beacon) was not happening they wanted to know why Ironwood was not lifting the embargo. Then of course there is everything that he does after he find Cinder's little chess piece on his desk. Ordering the end of the evacuation and being willing to leave half his Kingdom to die. Ordering the arrest of RWBY and friends. Shooting Oscar when the boy was just trying to get him to calm down with words and wasn't even raising a hand against him. Shooting Councilman Sleet. Having a virus put in Penny. etc. etc.

    And lastly, yes Blake has been satisfying since V5. She managed to reconnect with Yang. She stood up to Adam and survived. She has shown a more lighthearted side we had not seen since Beacon. The array of emotions she showed when Yang fell and managing to pull herself together to try and help her team. She has grown from the reserved bookworm to one of the most expression filled characters in the group.
     
    Darmani said:
    This started with my objection to weiss uding force to win arguments, especially over Blake's conflicts.
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    She inflicted slapstick on one douchebag, I don't know why you view it as RWBY's jumping the shark moment. Probably because it goes against your personal politics? I don't know.

    And I've already gone over how Blake's focus volumes were 5 & 6. She got a lot done. It's a big show and other characters need their moments in the spotlight.
     
    Pugman said:
    Well to answer, Blake's story is not connected to Jacques. It's Weiss' story that is connected to him.
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    Uhm. Jacque is head of most oppressive company she has been at war with. She's been part of organization that targeted his friends and family. He is attacking sister in sll but blood. But she has less cause to verbally confront him than weiss physically assault a random drunk She's talking to?
    erttheking said:
    I don't know why you view it as RWBY's jumping the shark moment.
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    Well i don't but a good example of how a show that keeps dabbling in themes for angst...handles followthrough I didn't like the Adam fang plot. But thought at least now adam dead blake free to approach goals and issues like faunus discrimination her way The "taking back the white fang." Her found family and dynamics with her own then reunited position
    And it all comes to lets trash a racist. Lets let weiss do it. And wink at camera
    That iswhat its all been for... And i contrast it with weiss v. Jacques and...well at least that more...in weiss's favor
     
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    Darmani said:
    Uhm. Jacque is head of most oppressive company she has been at war with. She's been part of organization that targeted his friends and family. He is attacking sister in sll but blood. But she has less cause to verbally confront him than weiss physically assault a random drunk She's talking to? Well i don't but a good example of how a show that keeps dabbling in themes for angst...handles followthrough I didn't like the Adam fang plot. But thought at least now adam dead blake free to approach goajs and issues like faunus discrimination her way Het taking back the white fang. Her found family and dynamics with her out and reunited position And lets trash a racist. Lets let weiss do it. And wink at camera That iswhat its for... And i contrast it with weiss v. Jacques and...well at least more...in weiss's favor
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    And as I have told other people in this chat, just because of the groups Blake and Weiss are connected to does not mean they need to be the ones to confront the biggest issue within the opposing group.
    Weiss did not need to be the one to confront Adam, because Weiss' story was about how being a Schnee effected her. The source of that issue was Jac. Weiss overcame that by constantly defying him and even got to be the one to initially put him under arrest.
    Blake never had to be the one to confront Jac, because Blake's story was about her connection to the Fang and more pressingly her connection to Adam and his torment of her. She overcame that by letting other in, standing up for herself against him, and helped be the force of change in her home and in a friend she saved from going down a dark path.

    As for their respective groups (SDC and White Fang), there is no real story precedent for them to be the ones to lead either group. For all intents and purposes both girls left those groups in their initial color trailers. Instead what the show has shown is them aiding and guiding a person they once left behind into the light of a better way to do things. For Blake it was Ilia by guiding her away for the hate and destruction that would of been her path is she stayed loyal to the Fang. For Weiss it was Whitley, who with kindness and support was making moves to use the Schnee resources for far better means than their father ever would.

    Heck, now that I think about it, RWBY are not leaders, so much as Guiding Lights into a better world.
    They are..."Beacons"...if you will.
     
    Darmani said:
    But she has less cause to verbally confront him than weiss physically assault a random drunk She's talking to?
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    Really, I'm with @erttheking here, though only because you have to remember that they had to fold in a dozen or so character arcs and this was one of the few times Weiss gets to shine in this moment.

    To have Blake butt in would lead to people endlessly debating on whether she was stealing Weiss's screen time or being a cute nod to Weiss stepping in for her when Cordovin was racist.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    That or Ice Queendom takes up October-Feburary slot for 2022-2023 and V9 comes out later that year for the October-Feburary slot for 2023-2024
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    Ice Queendom is only 1 cour (season) so it's only 12 episodes.
    If it starts during the Summer cour then that means to avoid overlap V9 will be in the Fall
    Thus late November early December.
    Unless something big hits RoosterTeeth then I am positive V9 starts before the end of this year.
     
    Darmani said:
    Well i don't but a good example of how a show that keeps dabbling in themes for angst...handles followthrough I didn't like the Adam fang plot. But thought at least now adam dead blake free to approach goajs and issues like faunus discrimination her way Het taking back the white fang. Her found family and dynamics with her out and reunited position And lets trash a racist. Lets let weiss do it. And wink at camera That iswhat its for... And i contrast it with weiss v. Jacques and...well at least more...in weiss's favor
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    It's to show character development for God's sake. The Faunus sub plot isn't something where we go "All characters please stand still and do nothing, only Blake is allowed to interact with this" particularly when she had three volumes that was nothing but her dealing with the White Fang. Other people are allowed to have opinions on the thing that's an every day societal norm.

    And no one winked at the camera.

    Sorry dude, you're doing a really bad job communicating why this is so horrible.
     
    erttheking said:
    It's to show character development for God's sake. The Faunus sub plot isn't something where we go "All characters please stand still and do nothing, only Blake is allowed to interact with this" particularly when she had three volumes that was nothing but her dealing with the White Fang. Other people are allowed to have opinions on the thing that's an every day societal norm.
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    Also, let's be honest. If Blake had taken the lead in harassing Ironwood and the Ace-ops over political issues, they would have dismissed her as a 'former' terrorist with extremist views. If she'd gone sneaking around Schnee Manor, she'd have likely been kicked out of the council meeting before getting to show the video, at best. And the Council wouldn't have turned on Jacque and sided with Ironwood on the testimony of a White Fang member, maybe even with evidence.

    And Blake isn't stupid. She knows all this. Which is why she let others, like Weiss, Nora and Oscar take the lead there, while she took an area she could help with. Approaching Robin, understanding what the Happy Huntresses and Mantle as a whole are going through, and offering an olive branch of possible trust and communication. And that paid off, even after Ironwood lost himself in paranoia again. The Huntresses and Mantle knew that RWBY and JONR could be trusted, when both sides needed help the most.
     
    Pugman said:
    And as I have told other people in this chat, just because of the groups Blake and Weiss are connected to does not mean they need to be the ones to confront the biggest issue within the opposing group.
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    I mean the bigger issue is the fact that neither of them get to participate at all with the others group. Blake gets nothing with the Schnees, and Weiss gets nothing with the White Fang plotline, despite both of those plotlines being closely connected issues. The most egregious of course being the fact that Adam, who literally has an SDC logo branded onto his face, never even meets Weiss. Her entire thing is supposed to be about trying to fix what her father did, yeah? So why does she never get to actually be involved in the biggest issue with the SDC, their treatment of Faunus?
     
    Because Adam was an abusive asshole who used his own trauma as nothing more than an excuse to hurt people. None of what he did in the actual show was because of his past, of how he suffered. They were because Cinder recruited him by force into doing something he enjoyed doing, and then the woman he got off on abusing dared to try and escape from him. This is also why we don't see the scars until after they have absolutely no plot relevance. It's the final statement on how he corrupted a good cause for his own petty crimes and cruelty. His encountering Weiss would give him more credit than he deserved.
     
    Zam said:
    Honestly I'd have thought V8 made it clear Weiss's story was a personal family drama dealing with familial abuse, trauma and coping mechanisms and Blake's was about a good movement being corrupted by a self serving asshole, you know, that thing that happens in real life all the time. Plus, you know, the trauma of being groomed.
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    Now, if Adam hadn't had a collection of fellow idiots who thought unleashing man-eating Grimm on civilians was something to be admired, as opposed to the sort of dumbfuckery that should see you put in a padded room and not even trusted with plastic sporks... Sienna and Weiss meeting would have been fascinating, and the sort of plotline people mistakenly expect the stalker bastard to have been in any way suitable for.
     
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    Yeah see now that could be interesting cos its someone who actually values Faunus lives and freedom meeting someone who did have to deal with some of the fallout of saving or avenging said Faunus. That could be an interesting discussion.

    But sadly, Sienna Khan has not yet been returned to us in all her glory, so I wait and pray.
     
    Plus, well, I really wish Blake had gotten the chance to talk to her as well, after finding her own way as opposed to the paths Sienna and Ghira had established.
     
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