RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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Duck posts are always welcome. Although I am having a hard time processing the dirty jokes with that art style. I can be too simple sometimes :p

Gentlemen please, you can't fight here this is the RWBY thread.

GREAT, now I'm imagining Ironwood riding the bomb down. THANKS.

"GET. OFF. THE DUST SUPERWEAPON."
 
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Aggressive sarcasm and baseless accusations, along with weird sniping about tumblr don't actually qualify as a counter argument you know that right? Like they don't address anything said.
Hey I'm just using what you're putting out baby. Like what are Expecting from your argument "me to say oh my God you're so right I have been sexist I must actually love this character"
The villain who did far worse in this instance was Vegeta, again, your morality arguments are inconsistent so they come off as baseless.
I haven't said fucking goddamn shit about Vegeta stop fucking bringing it up. You're pissing me off like Where am I said he was more moral. If I did fucking sorry I guess. I don't give a shit about what we do to do it because I do not fucking characters in dragon ball out of the main I have your investment in him blowing a hole through some fucking cutout people so it's not enough for me to fucking hate him. I am good job though you're getting me to hate him as much you Apparently do.
Except that's exactly what he does
Fine he does I guess you've worn me down enough on this point that I don't care anymore. I guess it's a double standard.
You're the one who built this rep for yourself by ranting about wanting Cinder and Emerald murdered, I'm not at fault for you digging a big ass hole for yourself and then complaining about where all this dirt came from
I hey Congratulations you've made one of your own. We can both be assholes now
 
Hey I'm just using what you're putting out baby. Like what are Expecting from your argument "me to say oh my God you're so right I have been sexist I must actually love this character"

I haven't said fucking goddamn shit about Vegeta stop fucking bringing it up. You're pissing me off like Where am I said he was more moral. If I did fucking sorry I guess. I don't give a shit about what we do to do it because I do not fucking characters in dragon ball out of the main I have your investment in him blowing a hole through some fucking cutout people so it's not enough for me to fucking hate him. I am good job though you're getting me to hate him as much you Apparently do.

Fine he does I guess you've worn me down enough on this point that I don't care anymore. I guess it's a double standard.

I hey Congratulations you've made one of your own. We can both be assholes now
Not really, as noted I break down exactly what you say, the inconstancies within and how I draw my conclusions, you just say waifu, tumblr, bad. Also no, though maybe learning not to pick a fight every time they come up after you spent months ranting about how much you want them dead and built yourself a rep might be a wise decision, I again direct you to my Tai point.

The contention is that you take issue with Emerald not being executed for her crimes. but like Vegeta despite his significantly great crimes, thus making your whole morality arguments (When you make them over something else) feel baseless, I have explained this several times.

(Shrugs) No one forced you to keep responding.

Pretty sure most already saw me as an asshole, just not one who shared your opinions.
 
Pretty sure most already saw me as an asshole, just not one who shared your opinions.
Nope Just saw you as a poster who posted here occasionally sometimes agree with you sometimes I didn't. Like matrix dragon or pug man. Hey congratulations on speed running asshole status
 

Oh I see they are a fan of my absolute least favorite version of redemption. The zuko

Like past trama as an excuse because she's not Damned for killing her Abusers she's damned for killing everyone after that
 
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Oh I see they are a fan of my absolute least favorite version of redemption. The zuko
Redemption wasn't even the main focus there, the point was wanting Cinder to be given the chance to do better, cos as far as we've seen its never come up.

Even Adam got given multiple chances to just leave, he refused to take the and died for it. If Cinder was given that and chose not to and died, these people would be satisfied.

Their point is that as far as the scenes and narrative of the show is concerned, that options never been so much as chanced on by Cinder. She didn't have Hazel looking out for her, she didn't have an Ozpin to offer her an out, she didn't have someone willing to risk their position to say "You can be better", cos Rhode's decried her as eternally evil for defending herself against her abusers.

Choosing not to be a terrible person when its functionally all you've ever known is hard, its not just scary, its borderline incomprehensible to someone who's only ever seen the worst sides of people. How would the thought, "I don't have to do this?" even occur to them at that point, especially when they only survived or otherwise gained freedom by emulating their abusers, rather than by good deeds.

So yeah, they want Cinder to at least be presented by someone with the option to stop, to not continue going down this path and to maybe even become better, because so far no one's ever given her the time of day enough to try. Heck, Ruby even bothered to try engaging with Roman's motives, but Cinder's not yet, and fair enough they have reasons not to. But narratively, thematically, it would be unsatisfying in my and others eyes to just shrug and say "She was always evil" and that's it.
 
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Emerald was able to recognize and break away from the cycle of abuse, and is getting the chance for atonement. I suspect Cinder will as well. The question will always be, can she take it?
 
I know they didn't oh warrior of the keyboard. I said they where a missing piece of the bad tumblr post of an argument you got there

I mean Roman was eaten I'm pretty sure Ty winners gonna be fucking killed in self as he should be. And I'm personally just kinda hoping Neo Seclude herself on the island. These are all punishments. Emerald forcing pyrrha into murdering Penny and helping then realizing cinder doesn't care about her isn't Especially when she goes on to nominally join the hero side.

No I was pointing out how stupid it sounds to take the outsider perspective as absolutely right Which is what you're doing.

No I like that he doesn't try to claim moral high ground like the other villains do.
He does claim the moral high ground though.

Zam: As for Tai I don't think he's evil; he means well and really is trying to help, but he is deeply unaware of how to connect and help his family. Compared to say Jonas Venture Sr (who deliberately tried to put his son down on top of all the other abuse) Tai might as well be a saint.
 
Emerald was able to recognize and break away from the cycle of abuse, and is getting the chance for atonement. I suspect Cinder will as well. The question will always be, can she take it?
I don't feel she will just based on her actions I don't mind her doing that but I thought actually she decided to turn against Salem and she's good now we're just gonna be good now I would absolutely hate it.
Iike zam said Adam got Chances as well and if in the big fight he was like actually you know what you're right I was bad I'd hate it.
Also I realize the way I feel very strongly bad about emeralds current status. As far I know nobody but emerald knows her parts ( and I say the worst thing she has done) to play in the fall of beacon. Like she could tell someone but so far it doesn't really look like she will. Without anyone to call her out about it it becomes Not my least favorite version of redemption but when I find very bad words like you just switch to the good side minimal people not liking you.
Like a really bad version is Orichimaru Baruto. Like The only reason I have the worry that Crwby would do it is not being able to find time to go into her during this next season and then getting to full steam to stop for it later on.
Redemption wasn't even the main focus there, the point was wanting Cinder to be given the chance to do better, cos as far as we've seen its never come up.

Even Adam got given multiple chances to just leave, he refused to take the and died for it. If Cinder was given that and chose not to and died, these people would be satisfied.

Their point is that as far as the scenes and narrative of the show is concerned, that options never been so much as chanced on by Cinder. She didn't have Hazel looking out for her, she didn't have an Ozpin to offer her an out, she didn't have someone willing to risk their position to say "You can be better", cos Rhode's decried her as eternally evil for defending herself against her abusers.

Choosing not to be a terrible person when its functionally all you've ever known is hard, its not just scary, its borderline incomprehensible to someone who's only ever seen the worst sides of people. How would the thought, "I don't have to do this?" even occur to them at that point, especially when they only survived or otherwise gained freedom by emulating their abusers, rather than by good deeds.

So yeah, they want Cinder to at least be presented by someone with the option to stop, to not continue going down this path and to maybe even become better, because so far no one's ever given her the time of day enough to try. Heck, Ruby even bothered to try engaging with Roman's motives, but Cinder's not yet, and fair enough they have reasons not to. But narratively, thematically, it would be unsatisfying in my and others eyes to just shrug and say "She was always evil" and that's it.
Yes it was not the main focus but it was definitely the focus towards the end of the post.
And she may know her like Hazel and or Oz but I really disagree with the "no one thought cinder – an enslaved child – worthy or deserving to be saved." because roads may have failed but I find saying he didn't think her deserving to be so like Disingenuous. Like we can say he failed ( I mean how could he not we have seen her future) but to say that wasn't a person who changed her Situation goes too far to "woobie" cinder's very bad Situation. Because it impiles she , or salm I guess, is the reason she got anywhere just feels wrong.
Like roads wanting to stop her like weird. I don't know if it's I'm older than like the people who find for killing those two shit kids OK or because I know that they're being a single abusive person in a shitty family like that was shown but like It literally only hurt killing those kids( They are horrible kids to be sure but like there's still kids) that really puts me on the I get why roads is like not cool with her.
 
Emerald was able to recognize and break away from the cycle of abuse, and is getting the chance for atonement. I suspect Cinder will as well. The question will always be, can she take it?
It would take at the very least see her dreams crumble to ash and have no one to blame but herself.

I do think that the Heroes will learn her past in the other world, and that Jaune will tell her "I asked you what made you so broken. Now I know and honestly, I just feel sorry for you."

Heck one fan story has Cinder try to become a better person after the end of the story. Ruby genuinely tries to help her.....and a lot of her friends don't approve because of what Cinder's done.
 
Also I feel like it's weak to be like oh actually cinder just need a friend during the beacon voumle and she would have not be evil. And then after there's big why would they stop fighting back against her trying to kill them
 
You know for someone who acted so upset, you sure jumped back into this stuff quick :/
Yes it was not the main focus but it was definitely the focus towards the end of the post.
And she may know her like Hazel and or Oz but I really disagree with the "no one thought cinder – an enslaved child – worthy or deserving to be saved." because roads may have failed but I find saying he didn't think her deserving to be so like Disingenuous. Like we can say he failed ( I mean how could he not we have seen her future) but to say that wasn't a person who changed her Situation goes too far to "woobie" cinder's very bad Situation. Because it impiles she , or salm I guess, is the reason she got anywhere just feels wrong.
Like roads wanting to stop her like weird. I don't know if it's I'm older than like the people who find for killing those two shit kids OK or because I know that they're being a single abusive person in a shitty family like that was shown but like It literally only hurt killing those kids( They are horrible kids to be sure but like there's still kids) that really puts me on the I get why roads is like not cool with her.
So you just ignore 80% of posts content then?

I disagree, Rhode's ultimately was willing to help a bit sure, but not in anyway that put his position at risk, not in anyway that didn't rely on Cinder essentially just getting herself out by waiting out a ticking clock and he condemned her as doomed for defending herself against her slave masters.

And Cinder was also a kid, it wasn't a 15 year old slave's responsibility to insulate them from her reactions when they went after her.
Also I feel like it's weak to be like oh actually cinder just need a friend during the beacon voumle and she would have not be evil. And then after there's big why would they stop fighting back against her trying to kill them
Except no one said that. This feels like reading a RWDE review of a post, you ignored 80% of the actual content, then made up an entirely baseless read of the post to bash it.
 
Hypocrites don't like being called out on their hypocrisy. I told an Israeli that he seemed to view Palestinians as subhuman animals and he got genuinely angry.
 
I'm trying to come up with reasons why so many people in this thread either want there to be or think there will be some kind of Cinder redemption. Not a single answer I can think of is very flattering.

The villains who have been redeemed so far (all of Emerald and Hazel) both had more going for that arc than a sympathetic backstory. Narratively, neither had been shown directly being as deeply sociopathic as Cinder. Both had expressed reservations regarding their actions. Both had traits beyond past trauma to garner sympathy - namely Emerald's attempt to establish a real emotional connection with Cinder and Hazel's disdain for what he saw as unnecessary death. Both spent a significant period of time softening, letting the narrative move them towards a position to make a moral break from Salem. The storytelling elements were in place to make redemption something most of the audience could enjoy or at least tolerate.

That has not happened AT ALL for Cinder. Outside of her backstory and her one moment after Watts laid down the fax, Cinder is never sympathetic. She is cruel. She is manipulative. She is devoid of even the merest sliver of empathy. And the story has already told you lot that she's not getting her redemption. Her verbal beatdown at the hands of Watts was the moment that should have turned her if she was capable of being turned. But it didn't. In fact, it drove her deeper into manipulation and cruelty. She murdered dozens on the pathways and the betrayed her allies. CRWBY is doing everything they can to show you that she's too far gone. Fucking Salem will get a redemption before Cinder does. The only villains lower than Cinder on a list working towards a redemption would be Adam - a child grooming psychopath - and Tyrian - a legit fucking serial killer.

Cinder isn't being set up for a redemption arc. She's being set up as the final boss. She's a character that will only realize how monumentally awful she is two seconds before the light goes out of her murderous eyes.
 
I'm trying to come up with reasons why so many people in this thread either want there to be or think there will be some kind of Cinder redemption. Not a single answer I can think of is very flattering.

The villains who have been redeemed so far (all of Emerald and Hazel) both had more going for that arc than a sympathetic backstory. Narratively, neither had been shown directly being as deeply sociopathic as Cinder. Both had expressed reservations regarding their actions. Both had traits beyond past trauma to garner sympathy - namely Emerald's attempt to establish a real emotional connection with Cinder and Hazel's disdain for what he saw as unnecessary death. Both spent a significant period of time softening, letting the narrative move them towards a position to make a moral break from Salem. The storytelling elements were in place to make redemption something most of the audience could enjoy or at least tolerate.

That has not happened AT ALL for Cinder. Outside of her backstory and her one moment after Watts laid down the fax, Cinder is never sympathetic. She is cruel. She is manipulative. She is devoid of even the merest sliver of empathy. And the story has already told you lot that she's not getting her redemption. Her verbal beatdown at the hands of Watts was the moment that should have turned her if she was capable of being turned. But it didn't. In fact, it drove her deeper into manipulation and cruelty. She murdered dozens on the pathways and the betrayed her allies. CRWBY is doing everything they can to show you that she's too far gone. Fucking Salem will get a redemption before Cinder does. The only villains lower than Cinder on a list working towards a redemption would be Adam - a child grooming psychopath - and Tyrian - a legit fucking serial killer.

Cinder isn't being set up for a redemption arc. She's being set up as the final boss. She's a character that will only realize how monumentally awful she is two seconds before the light goes out of her murderous eyes.
The recent post wasn't even primarily about redemption but merely being offered the chance, same as Adam was.

Aside but using sociopathic/psychopathic like this is pretty loaded and part of a persistent stereotype that people born as such are inherently evil. Also no one's ignore that? But like, the stories not over yet, so characters can still and likely will change, in what direction that will be is up in the air, but just dismissing potential character paths, especially when people breakdown why totally dismissing them might be unsatisfying without addressing those points feels kinda unbalanced as a response goes.

OK so this is, not strictly off topic but an aside, RWBY has never shown trauma to inherently make a person better, its never argued that shouting cruelly at a person or otherwise being a dick will make the person being lambasted better. So why exactly would a guy, seemingly an Atlesian elite ranting at her for being unworthy magically make her a better person, especially when his rant didn't even have anything to do with morality but professionalism? Why would Salem, she's so far only has a sympathetic backstory and has otherwise shown herself to be just as bad as Cinder if not worse.

Sure that might happen, or it might not, personally I think you getting super attached to this might lead you to disappointment.
 
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I'm trying to come up with reasons why so many people in this thread either want there to be or think there will be some kind of Cinder redemption. Not a single answer I can think of is very flattering.

The villains who have been redeemed so far (all of Emerald and Hazel) both had more going for that arc than a sympathetic backstory. Narratively, neither had been shown directly being as deeply sociopathic as Cinder. Both had expressed reservations regarding their actions. Both had traits beyond past trauma to garner sympathy - namely Emerald's attempt to establish a real emotional connection with Cinder and Hazel's disdain for what he saw as unnecessary death. Both spent a significant period of time softening, letting the narrative move them towards a position to make a moral break from Salem. The storytelling elements were in place to make redemption something most of the audience could enjoy or at least tolerate.

That has not happened AT ALL for Cinder. Outside of her backstory and her one moment after Watts laid down the fax, Cinder is never sympathetic. She is cruel. She is manipulative. She is devoid of even the merest sliver of empathy. And the story has already told you lot that she's not getting her redemption. Her verbal beatdown at the hands of Watts was the moment that should have turned her if she was capable of being turned. But it didn't. In fact, it drove her deeper into manipulation and cruelty. She murdered dozens on the pathways and the betrayed her allies. CRWBY is doing everything they can to show you that she's too far gone. Fucking Salem will get a redemption before Cinder does. The only villains lower than Cinder on a list working towards a redemption would be Adam - a child grooming psychopath - and Tyrian - a legit fucking serial killer.

Cinder isn't being set up for a redemption arc. She's being set up as the final boss. She's a character that will only realize how monumentally awful she is two seconds before the light goes out of her murderous eyes.

I think there are 2 reasons

1 - Some people here don't want an abuse victim, namely one where we see the abuse happen, and have that character be Forever Bad
2 - The theme of "Choice" in the series. The 4 main aspects of the series are Creation, Destruction, Knowledge and Choice. Being the Fall Maiden we have Cinder narratively being tied to the Relic of Choice. Cinder has both had Choice taken from her and she has also taken Choice from others. So in a way Cinder's fate would be the result of her Final Choice. With Knowledge in hand will she make the Choice to continue down her path of Destruction, or will she turn a corner and choose Creation?

Heck, even her preferred element is Fire, and element that is a clear double edged sword. It both nurtures Creation but can also bring untold Destruction. An oil lamp can light one's way and even provide a tiny spark of warmth, but that same flame can lay waste to a home or city.

But I am likely looking to deep into this.
At the end of the way I think after the reveal of her backstory it kind of comes down to some people not wanting the potential message of "Don't fight against your abusers" they think will come if Cinder doesn't turn some kind of corner and keeps running until her dying breath chasing any kind of power she can get her mitts on.
 
At the end of the way I think after the reveal of her backstory it kind of comes down to some people not wanting the potential message of "Don't fight against your abusers" they think will come if Cinder doesn't turn some kind of corner and keeps running until her dying breath chasing any kind of power she can get her mitts on.
Which already falls flat given Blake practically killed her abuser.
 
Which already falls flat given Blake practically killed her abuser.
Which rather ties back into the Tumblr posts point about how it can come off thematically like there was something inherently worthless about Cinder that meant others got to be treated like people, others got to be protected, others got to defend themselves, but when Cinder does, she's forever condemned.
 
I'm trying to come up with reasons why so many people in this thread either want there to be or think there will be some kind of Cinder redemption. Not a single answer I can think of is very flattering.

The villains who have been redeemed so far (all of Emerald and Hazel) both had more going for that arc than a sympathetic backstory. Narratively, neither had been shown directly being as deeply sociopathic as Cinder. Both had expressed reservations regarding their actions. Both had traits beyond past trauma to garner sympathy - namely Emerald's attempt to establish a real emotional connection with Cinder and Hazel's disdain for what he saw as unnecessary death. Both spent a significant period of time softening, letting the narrative move them towards a position to make a moral break from Salem. The storytelling elements were in place to make redemption something most of the audience could enjoy or at least tolerate.

That has not happened AT ALL for Cinder. Outside of her backstory and her one moment after Watts laid down the fax, Cinder is never sympathetic. She is cruel. She is manipulative. She is devoid of even the merest sliver of empathy. And the story has already told you lot that she's not getting her redemption. Her verbal beatdown at the hands of Watts was the moment that should have turned her if she was capable of being turned. But it didn't. In fact, it drove her deeper into manipulation and cruelty. She murdered dozens on the pathways and the betrayed her allies. CRWBY is doing everything they can to show you that she's too far gone. Fucking Salem will get a redemption before Cinder does. The only villains lower than Cinder on a list working towards a redemption would be Adam - a child grooming psychopath - and Tyrian - a legit fucking serial killer.

Cinder isn't being set up for a redemption arc. She's being set up as the final boss. She's a character that will only realize how monumentally awful she is two seconds before the light goes out of her murderous eyes.
Eyyo, I'd sworn myself off having arguments in this thread...

...but here I go having an argument again. Cause there's a lot wrong here.

Let's start with clarifying my position. Do I think a Cinder redemption arc would be rad? Hell yeah I do, I kind of want it too (in fact prior to her doubling down I thought V8 might be leaning in that direction and when she did double down I made a number of joking 'I'm boo boo the fool' jokes to friends). Do I think it's going to happen? Given the V8 doubling down and the writers saying you shouldn't find her sympathetic past her backstory (which I'll Death of the Author in a second), I find it unlikely at this point (which is a shame, as I really liked the idea of an ultimate redemption RWBY with the thrust of the series ending up being 'everyone has a chance to turn back, literally everyone has a chance to make things right').

I'm going to ignore your accusation that... what, this makes me a bad person, somehow? Okay, sure, whatever, let's move onto your points about Cinder, namely that she has no sympathetic moments outside her backstory and after Watts' beatdown.

This is false.

It's a long time ago now, but the entirety of her Volume 4 arc portrays her sympathetically. It's actually probably my favourite part of Volume 4 - last time we saw Cinder she was mostly malevolently triumphant, killing an audience favourite, shocked at Ruby's silver eyes but the most confident and in control we'd seen her up until that point. In Volume 4, she is so injured she can't speak, is mocked and abused by her coworkers, and eventually seems to be some level of scared or threatened by them (the scene with Tyrian killing the Beowolf she looks genuinely horrified by Tyrian's behaviour). If that isn't a sympathetic portrayal, I don't know what is (sorry Kerry). She does then double down on villainy in Volume 5, and sort of in Volume 6 (though her recovery from her beatdown by Raven also has her literally crawling and collapsing across muddy ground, screaming and gasping for air underwater, all kinda sympathetic), but in Volume 7 even though she is just as evil as ever her best line (maybe the best line in the whole show) indicates the sympathetic nature of her backstory even before we see it on screen.

To be honest, she has more sympathetic moments than Emerald (in my opinion at least), though that might just be due to screen time and focus - Cinder gets to be the main player and center of the camera in a lot of scenes whereas until Volume 8 Emerald only really had two or three scenes to take center stage. Cinder's done more direct wrong to the main cast than Emerald or Hazel had, and has openly revelled in it more, but that makes the potential for her struggling to redeem herself much more entertaining imo (and RWBY testing and finding the limits and boundaries of forgiveness, what forgiveness means against someone who really, personally has seriously hurt you which will always be more interesting than forgiving someone who's only hurt you a little bit).

So yes. She's being set up as an end boss. But that doesn't mean that the idea of her not being an end boss isn't interesting.
 
I mean for Vegeta a good portion of the horrible things that Vegeta has done has been later undone via the dragonballs wish.
The ones on screen at least. Nothing much was done for all the planets before that.
Hell the Namekian village he slaughtered never came back.
They might have, but it's not really touched on to my knowledge. Not sure how much he counted as working under Frieza at the time.
Not for me just think he's cool.
And because Cinder isn't she should die for doing less than him?
Darth Vader at least is a broken man consumed by self loathing and regret, and he WAS a great hero, which makes his redemption acceptable.
And he still died for it, and depending on how one sees it he wasn't in the right mind after more than a decade of grooming by Palpatine and the Dark Side messing with him like a drug to avoid dealing with all of his traumas, to the point some see Anakin and Vader as almost different people.
Vegeta wasn't working for Frieza, this is addressed in the show and the manga, the Namekians Vegeta killed did not get brought back. Vegeta is not Cell so the people Vegeta killed while attacking 18, were not brought back. The Dragon does not grant the same wish twice, so the people killed by Vegeta, brought back and then killed by Buu were not brought back. I know where of I speak on this stuff, I just did a re-watch/read-through a few months back.
Is it explicitly addressed or just not brought up? I don't recall the exact details.
I in fact hate all but three Rwby villains because I find stupid self Righteous assholes who I hope die.
How long did it take for Vegeta to not be a stupid self righteous asshole? Like at least two decades of being beat down by the narrative every time he tried to do that?
They're all women, or minorities, or both, either in universe or out, or both.

Meanwhile the only villain you seem to like is a white dude, who has all the flaws, issues, attitudes or otherwise personality traits you claim to hate, or has done similar degrees of damage to the aforementioned villains you hate.
Vegeta might technically count as a minority, but he does constantly talk about how much better his race is than others for most of the series, so that may play into it for some people...

Which took the entire series to get to, which RWBY hasn't gotten to yet so comparing the ending of one character and the mid-point of another seems like a bad idea for a final decision about someone.
The villain who did far worse in this instance was Vegeta, again, your morality arguments are inconsistent so they come off as baseless.
Some people only count named characters as people, so "a million is a statistic" is driven to the extreme.
Hey I'm just using what you're putting out baby. Like what are Expecting from your argument "me to say oh my God you're so right I have been sexist I must actually love this character"
You don't need to love them, you just need to stop being a hypocrite about why you don't like them. Every time you try to explain it you make it look worse for yourself, so just stop complaining about them existing and people will let it go.
Hey congratulations on speed running asshole status
I think going on regular rants about how much you want fictional characters to die is a lot more asshole-ish behavior than pointing out a double standard.

Gentlemen please, you can't fight here this is the RWBY thread.
We're as good at avoiding fighting each other as the people of Remnant. Question is when the mods/gods show up and shut it all down for the behavior.
Zam: As for Tai I don't think he's evil; he means well and really is trying to help, but he is deeply unaware of how to connect and help his family. Compared to say Jonas Venture Sr (who deliberately tried to put his son down on top of all the other abuse) Tai might as well be a saint.
In the grand pantheon of anime dads he's definitely pretty high up there, even without the bell curve.
I'm trying to come up with reasons why so many people in this thread either want there to be or think there will be some kind of Cinder redemption. Not a single answer I can think of is very flattering.
I don't think she's going to get it, but people do deserve a chance to be better than they were. If she rejects it then that's on her, but her childhood trauma and what she did to try to escape is not a reason to toss her away. Give her the chance to leave, let her know that she is being given a chance to stop running, that Rhodes was wrong, and let her actually decide what to do with that. I doubt she would take it, but she at least deserves a chance.
Which already falls flat given Blake practically killed her abuser.
She gave him every chance to change or even leave, he was the one that refused to stop trying to kill her.
If that isn't a sympathetic portrayal, I don't know what is (sorry Kerry).
I think they meant as of volume 8 where she starts doubling down on her worst actions to try for more power even after we saw where she started.
 
If that isn't a sympathetic portrayal, I don't know what is

Yeah, I can see that. I didn't feel much sympathy at the time, as her injuries and situation were a direct result of her crimes the previous volume, so there was more than a touch of 'her own damn fault'. I can certainly see how others would feel sympathy there however, and the view into how Salem manipulated her did establish a sense of horror.

Which already falls flat given Blake practically killed her abuser.

Stop victim blaming. Adams death is his own damn fault and you know it.
 
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