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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • I think the problem, or at least a major part of it, can be traced back to the way RWBY is one of the first shows that really got the YouTube critic theme going. And the YouTube critics for RWBY are... Unprofessional, shall we say. Bad faith arguments, lies, hate campaigns against the dead creators brother, they've done it all. They got a lot of views. Which means that the Bad Critics are the loudest part of the fandom. And people spend a lot of time arguing with the idiots instead of just using the damn block button.
     
    Mook said:
    Though I do not look forward to dumbasses in the fanbase blaming all the bad stuff that happens this volume on Ruby.
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    You and me both, everything is going to be Ruby's fault, Blake and Yang's fault, or Robyn's fault. I may make myself scarce when volume 8 comes out because I just know the Ironwood stans are going to be fucking unbearable.

    Mook said:
    The Grimm Campaign is hilarious. I can't wait for Season 2. By that point Talespire will hopefully be ready for sale and I will be truly getting back into Tabletop Roleplaying again
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    Oh god, that scene was one of my favorites :rofl:, I really hope there's some kind of adaptation of the Grimm Campaign in the future, as an animated feature, manga, comic, whatever.

    Mook said:
    And man I hope Eddy and co take full advantage of the new features that Talespire are rolling out to make the next season as epic as possible.
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    That would be really awesome, those tile sets would be perfect for Vacou and Solitas, there's also a cyberpunk one in the works that would be perfect for Mantle.
     
    "Salem already united humanity once!"
    Yaaaaaaa .... see ..... about that ...... She didn't. >.>
    At least not in the way Light would later instruct Ozma in doing.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    They already are. My 'favorite' was the one saying it's only a few thousand people in mantle, what does it matter if they're sacrificed?
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    ...I hate these people, I hate them so fucking much, this what a generation of hard men, hard choices, storytelling has done to people. A generation of fiction has convinced morons that any choice that involves sacrificing/killing innocent people is somehow the 'smart' or 'rational' choice.
     
    Iscariotpaladin said:
    ...I hate these people, I hate them so fucking much, this what a generation of hard men, hard choices, storytelling has done to people. A generation of fiction has convinced morons that any choice that involves sacrificing/killing innocent people is somehow the 'smart' or 'rational' choice.
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    In this case, the followup comments before I applied the block button was stuff about how the Council just got in his way, he clearly knew best... The usual 'I want fascism as my government of choice, but I'm too chickenshit to come out and say it.' And I use the phrase Hard Men Making Hard Choices (While Hard). Because that's what these fuckwits want to be.

    The annoying thing in this case is that sacrificing Mantle is only even an option because Ironwood and the military under him didn't do their job properly in regards to Mantles defenses for ages. They made the problem, they ignore the problem, and people fall over themselves to praise him.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    In this case, the followup comments before I applied the block button was stuff about how the Council just got in his way, he clearly knew best... The usual 'I want fascism as my government of choice, but I'm too chickenshit to come out and say it.' And I use the phrase Hard Men Making Hard Choices (While Hard). Because that's what these fuckwits want to be.

    The annoying thing in this case is that sacrificing Mantle is only even an option because Ironwood and the military under him didn't do their job properly in regards to Mantles defenses for ages. They made the problem, they ignore the problem, and people fall over themselves to praise him.
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    Pretty much, welcome to the world of Fascism 2: Electric Boogaloo! Where democratic procedure, checks and balances, civilian oversight, and desire for transparency in government just get in the way!

    Oh I'm familiar with the proper expression I was just with a bit of shorthand since I'm a slow typist.

    Exactly! The really screwed up thing is people have been saying since his earliest appearances that he going to end up as a Denethor-like figure if not an outright villain. Atlas has been implied to outright stated to be the problem Kingdom from day one, and Volume 7 did a damn good job of showing in addition to telling. Mantle and Atlas were fucked looong before RWBY got their and thier presence is going to be what ensures there will be anything left when the dust settles.
     
    I'm just happy we're getting Mandalorian 2x1 and RWBY 8x1 so close to each other. Can break from debating about one to debating about the other.
     
    Not to be elitist on main but when discussing RWBY-Tuber Critics I was reminded of my growing discontent with youtube critics seemingly often just being people who watch a lot of stuff but haven't necessarily studied film & media. Hence why you get people going "It uses tropes" as a critique when like... Tropes are not inherently bad or good. I'm similarly reminded of music critics just shitting on RWBY's soundtrack for being "anime" or otherwise disparaging its quality and the effort but into it which is why I want to provide a contrast:

    Some of you may know this person, but if not they are an actual musician who reacts to music and breaks down the aspects they find most interesting, harkening back to various different eras from the modern to classical and so much in-between and explaining various subtle or technical aspects that jump out to them.



    This kind of video isn't just a joy to watch not just because the person doing it is enjoying the thing they are consuming but because its enjoyable to listen to someone with actual expertise articulate on a topic they are passionate about, which to be honest I find very little off in a lot of Youtubes critic sphere, not totally bereft of it mind, I've found some good one's but still, the contrast between this reaction and some complaints I see is vast when it comes to critical expertise.
     
    In your honest opinion, how much do you think the fan support for Ironwood was because of his performance in the volume?

    I'm not talking about his decisions and actions in the plot but more about his place in the story, the role he contributed to push the plot forward, the voice acting, etc.

    Like I've seen people that admit Robyn and the Happy Huntresses were the ones overall in the right but just can't get behind them because of how awkward their role in the story was.
     
    Labmit said:
    In your honest opinion, how much do you think the fan support for Ironwood was because of his performance in the volume?

    I'm not talking about his decisions and actions in the plot but more about his place in the story, the role he contributed to push the plot forward, the voice acting, etc.

    Like I've seen people that admit Robyn and the Happy Huntresses were the ones overall in the right but just can't get behind them because of how awkward their role in the story was.
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    Very little given I don't think the Happy Huntresses were awkward story wise and I've seen little in the ways of such arguments n favor of Ironwood beyond "He's proactive!"
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Or pretend that Watts, Tyrian, Cinder, Jacques, and Salem do not exist and think that all the bad stuff that happens is on Ironwood.
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    And yet none of us here are saying that.
    We know Salem, her cabal, and Jac are big parts of why things went to pot, but we also know a fair amount of issues were also Ironwood's fault, and are more his fault than the fault of The Happy Huntresses or Ruby and Co.
     
    Labmit said:
    In your honest opinion, how much do you think the fan support for Ironwood was because of his performance in the volume?

    I'm not talking about his decisions and actions in the plot but more about his place in the story, the role he contributed to push the plot forward, the voice acting, etc.

    Like I've seen people that admit Robyn and the Happy Huntresses were the ones overall in the right but just can't get behind them because of how awkward their role in the story was.
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    Very. Even casual fans of RWBY believe Ironwood practically stole the show when it came to his performance, with Rose's extremely excellent voice work, the massive role he played in both what he intended to do for Remnant and what he eventually ended up doing, and even his overall place in the story.

    Ironwood is the first villain who makes the audience question if he's in the right. Adam would have had he not gotten too obsessed with Blake or his spite and Salem or Cinder definitely had they legit believed a single word they said in the song Divide or the speech in PvP respectively.

    In the end, however, it was Ironwood who managed to be that anti-villain who had a point. When we get reintroduced to him properly in Episode 2 of Volume 7, he welcomes RWBY and informs them of what he intends to do: repair the CCT and tell the world of Salem. Prior to this point, the group had hit a huge dead end because the one person who had been leading them not only had no plans to actually stop Salem and his Cornelius Fudge-style method of making the world blind to Salem's threat and/or doing next to nothing has started to wear the group thin on trusting him.

    While the role he took at the end definitely painted him as a villain by some, it didn't help that, not only was he pushed to do what he did but that Mantle was effectively doomed the moment Watts shut off the heat and locked people out of turning it on again. The fact that there are still debates to this day of whether Ironwood was right in his decisions or if he went about the situation the wrong way speaks levels of how much of an impact he made on RWBY.

    As for Robyn, part of the reason why she felt awkwardly placed was because part of her plot was tied into the plot of RWBY mid-draft, with the election subplot being came up with in a fever dream. Though, I feel like the show itself is aware of it. There's a scene where she snaps and goes "ONLY!?", throws a chair, and then a few seconds later, people talk as though that never transpired and Robyn has to literally reintroduce herself and even goes "I'm still here".
     
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    Psyga315 said:
    Very. Even fans of RWBY believe Ironwood practically stole the show when it came to his performance, with Rose's extremely excellent voice work, the massive role he played in both what he intended to do for Remnant and what he eventually ended up doing, and even his overall place in the story.

    Ironwood is the first villain who makes the audience question if he's in the right. Adam would have had he not gotten too obsessed with Blake or his spite and Salem or Cinder definitely had they legit believed a single word they said in the song Divide or the speech in PvP respectively.

    In the end, however, it was Ironwood who managed to be that anti-villain who had a point. When we get reintroduced to him properly in Episode 2 of Volume 7, he welcomes RWBY and informs them of what he intends to do: repair the CCT and tell the world of Salem. Prior to this point, the group had hit a huge dead end because the one person who had been leading them not only had no plans to actually stop Salem and his Cornelius Fudge-style method of making the world blind to Salem's threat and/or doing next to nothing has started to wear the group thin on trusting him.

    While the role he took at the end definitely painted him as a villain by some, it didn't help that, not only was he pushed to do what he did but that Mantle was effectively doomed the moment Watts shut off the heat and locked people out of turning it on again. The fact that there are still debates to this day of whether Ironwood was right in his decisions or if he went about the situation the wrong way speaks levels of how much of an impact he made on RWBY.

    As for Robyn, part of the reason why she felt awkwardly placed was because part of her plot was tied into the plot of RWBY mid-draft, with the election subplot being came up with in a fever dream. Though, I feel like the show itself is aware of it. There's a scene where she snaps and goes "ONLY!?", throws a chair, and then a few seconds later, people talk as though that never transpired and Robyn has to literally reintroduce herself and even goes "I'm still here".
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    Um, maybe don't speak for other fans cos that certainly didn't happen with me.

    I never questioned that Ironwood was wrong and Adam was introduced wanting to blow up civilians for fun so no. Also given Cinder's action in V7 and how mysterious Salem can be I feel you're presuming a lot.

    His plan was also gonna fail in hindsight given how useless his military is for actually defending cities from Grimm.

    So we just glossing over the massive neglect and suffering Ironwood foisted on Mantle?

    That's a rather misrepresentative take on the election I feel.
     
    Zam said:
    Um, maybe don't speak for other fans cos that certainly didn't happen with me.
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    I wasn't.

    There was a fan-voted event called the Ozcars where a known Youtube commentator, Murder of Birds, hosted the "Best Of" for Volume 7 as though it was the actual Oscars. Not only did Jason Rose win for best performance, but Ironwood took the spot for best Male lead.

     
    Psyga315 said:
    Very. Even fans of RWBY believe Ironwood practically stole the show when it came to his performance, with Rose's extremely excellent voice work, the massive role he played in both what he intended to do for Remnant and what he eventually ended up doing, and even his overall place in the story.

    Ironwood is the first villain who makes the audience question if he's in the right. Adam would have had he not gotten too obsessed with Blake or his spite and Salem or Cinder definitely had they legit believed a single word they said in the song Divide or the speech in PvP respectively.

    In the end, however, it was Ironwood who managed to be that anti-villain who had a point. When we get reintroduced to him properly in Episode 2 of Volume 7, he welcomes RWBY and informs them of what he intends to do: repair the CCT and tell the world of Salem. Prior to this point, the group had hit a huge dead end because the one person who had been leading them not only had no plans to actually stop Salem and his Cornelius Fudge-style method of making the world blind to Salem's threat and/or doing next to nothing has started to wear the group thin on trusting him.

    While the role he took at the end definitely painted him as a villain by some, it didn't help that, not only was he pushed to do what he did but that Mantle was effectively doomed the moment Watts shut off the heat and locked people out of turning it on again. The fact that there are still debates to this day of whether Ironwood was right in his decisions or if he went about the situation the wrong way speaks levels of how much of an impact he made on RWBY.

    As for Robyn, part of the reason why she felt awkwardly placed was because part of her plot was tied into the plot of RWBY mid-draft, with the election subplot being came up with in a fever dream. Though, I feel like the show itself is aware of it. There's a scene where she snaps and goes "ONLY!?", throws a chair, and then a few seconds later, people talk as though that never transpired and Robyn has to literally reintroduce herself and even goes "I'm still here".
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    1 - I am one of the people that managed to follow the story and question Ironwood. Not "is he in the right" or "doing the right thing" (which is no on both, by the way), but "is this guy in a right state of mind". The very reason Ruby was cautious about opening up to Ironwood in the first place. Not only had the group been burnt on trust a few times within the last few weeks, but ALL of them could tell things weren't right/well in the northern kingdom from the moment they first entered Atlas airspace.

    2 - Characters being able to "steal the show" =/= a decent reason to support the character or trust them over the very protagonist's the show has been following for years.

    3 - Robyn having to remind people she was still in the room checks out with Ironwood's bad habit of overlooking others. It's not a moment against HER character, it's a moment against Ironwood's. He is so focused on the issue at hand (and starting to spiral) that he forgets that he is mumbling secrets in front of someone not privy to them yet.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    I wasn't.

    There was a fan-voted event called the Ozcars where a known Youtube commentator, Murder of Birds, hosted the "Best Of" for Volume 7 as though it was the actual Oscars. Not only did Jason Rose win for best performance, but Ironwood took the spot for best Male lead.
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    I have literally not heard word of this once so this is far from representative, especially given I follow a metric ton of RWBY analysts and not a one even vagued about this once.
     
    Labmit said:
    In your honest opinion, how much do you think the fan support for Ironwood was because of his performance in the volume?

    I'm not talking about his decisions and actions in the plot but more about his place in the story, the role he contributed to push the plot forward, the voice acting, etc.

    Like I've seen people that admit Robyn and the Happy Huntresses were the ones overall in the right but just can't get behind them because of how awkward their role in the story was.
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    While probably not what you're looking for, there is an aspect of his character that does envoke sympathy.

    Most, if not all, the villains and antagonists in RWBY up until this point have been pretty blatantly selfish. Very surface level, very easy to spot. Ironwoods characteristics are a bit more nuanced in comparison in that they are selfish, but it takes a bit more digging to get to.

    He's trying to help, he's often fair and helpful to the main characters and there are times to want him to win because he is fighting to the same goal. But he cracks over the season before breaking, and if you're still hung up on his trying to help bit, you're going to get a bit defensive.

    But otherwise, I wouldn't call the voice acting or anything a standout performance, though by no means bad or anything.
     
    Marco said:
    While probably not what you're looking for, there is an aspect of his character that does envoke sympathy.

    Most, if not all, the villains and antagonists in RWBY up until this point have been pretty blatantly selfish. Very surface level, very easy to spot. Ironwoods characteristics are a bit more nuanced in comparison in that they are selfish, but it takes a bit more digging to get to.

    He's trying to help, he's often fair and helpful to the main characters and there are times to want him to win because he is fighting to the same goal. But he cracks over the season before breaking, and if you're still hung up on his trying to help bit, you're going to get a bit defensive.

    But otherwise, I wouldn't call the voice acting or anything a standout performance, though by no means bad or anything.
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    Like I think everyone did a good job acting this last Season. But if anyone stole the spot light in voice acting it was Nora's your not Suffering mini Speech.
     
    daedalus725 said:
    Like I think everyone did a good job acting this last Season. But if anyone stole the spot light in voice acting it was Nora's your not Suffering mini Speech.
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    I would have a hard time picking out any single scene or even character.

    Everything from Tyrian and Watt's amazing dynamic as terrifying monsters, to Robyn's cocksure attitude and passion, to the Bees 'everything' Ruby's and Weiss's quiet tension, Ren's coming apart at the seams while comrade Nora is ready to wreck shit, just, so much good stuff.

    Also Cinder going full feral was grand to see.
     
    Iscariotpaladin said:
    Some news from tumblr:



    As someone who didn't like Volume 3, I'm a bit ambivalent about this but I'll wait and see how things play out.
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    You guys misseeed out if you didnt watch Kdin stream with Kerry,Laura Yates and Christine Stuckart.
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    Fear not if you missed the stream, it's now been uploaded to the RT site after some technical difficulties:
    roosterteeth.com

    Creating Remnant From Home - Stay Zen - S1E26 - Rooster Teeth

    !! Note !! - The video file for this episode was corrupted due to a crash, however the episode was saved by some lovely work from the Rooster Teeth Broadcast team and some quick thinking with using backup audio recordings. Kdin is joined by Kerry Shawcross, Laura Yates, and Christine Stuckart...
    roosterteeth.com roosterteeth.com



    And pretty early on they bring up an interesting topic that wasn't covered in the tumblr post; The move to "Work At Home" has in some ways improved the production pipeline and with the refinements being done by various companies that offer solutions to problems people face with "Work At Home" it is possible that RT Animation might see some serious improvements in the future due to working at home.


    Specifically they mention that while Rooster Teeth has always been fortunate to have been set up in Austin where there is actually a decent amount of animation, acting, etc studios and resources to pull from compared to say Wisconsin (no offense Wisconsin) its still not exactly the largest or most accessible of such cities in the US. Because of that RT has always had a bit of a problem of obtaining and retaining talent due to being too remote for some people to move/stay there long term.

    For example they might hire someone for a year or so to work on a project but then that person moves away and gets work elsewhere because it's not convenient to live in Austin. Or they might reach out to someone but that person ends up declining working for them because Austin is simply too far away for them to move there just for work. For example Mark Zhang of Team SLVR fame decided to say no when RT offered him a chance to work on RWBY in at least a major part because he lived very far from Austin and didn't want to move.


    However with Work At Home solutions it will now be much easier for them to contact specific talented animators (and possibly other types of talent) and have them simply work on RWBY or other projects wherever they live instead of having to cram 300+ people into a single warehouse in Austin to get a big project done.

    So taking the Mark Zhang example again, while he did decline working on RWBY he did work for RT indirectly by being hired as an animator for Death Battles, since the one and done fight scenes that show required was something he could actually do remotely. But now with Work At Home solutions allowing individual animators to all be part of the same massive pipeline even when they're spread all across the country I'm very hopeful that Mark or animators like him could be hired to work on RWBY on a more permanent basis.



    Anyway, I'm going to continue listening to the Zen. It's very interesting. :)
     
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