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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Pugman said:
    Ya wanna know what grinds my gears?
    People that claim there needs to be deaths in JNR or other allies for there to be stakes/dangers in the show.

    Like....no we don't. You can still have stakes, danger, a tense atmosphere, etc without killing characters.
    I feel both sorry for, and annoyed by people that seem to need bodycounts for there to be worth in the shows they watch.
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    I wonder if those people hated Batman the animated series and Justice League for not killing enough characters to be 'dramatic' XD
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Hell, for Adam, it had to take Blake easily forgetting she got over him in Volume 5 ("I got better things to do" vs. "WHY ARE YOU FOLLOWING MEEEEE!?") for him to even be a threat again.
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    As Matrix already pointed, the context means a lot.
    V5 and the double axe handle - Blake came in knowing and expecting to face Adam and knew she had back up.
    V7 and the ambush - Much like V3 at Beacon, Blake did not expect Adam to show up at all and she had no back up at the time. Just her and Adam, alone.


    for stakes
    in Avatar the last Airbender, none of the Gaang die and the closest we got to character deaths were Aang getting shot in the back during the capture of Ba Sing Se and Suki going down with an airship. Heck the only person the Gaang had even worked with that died is Jett and that was left up to speculation in the end. His "death" literally meant nothing. From Aang busting out of his ice tomb to the end of Ozai the Gaang had 2 major losses (Ba Sing Se and the failed attack during the eclipse) and the tension held without a death.
    for pay off
    Atlas does not have to be a major loss/victory for either side for this arc to end with everyone's credibility intact. You can have Atlas come back to the ground and Salem fly away with 2 relics in hand without character death or either side looking weaker or stronger than the other. Team Salem got a win at Beacon (despite not getting a relic and Cinder being wounded), Team Remnant managed to eak out a lucky win with tenacity and luck at Haven (they had the Relic and the school is at most inconvenienced with building damage and no headmaster), Atlas can be a draw and everyone goes back to their corners to licks their wounds for volume 9.
     
    Pugman said:
    V7 and the ambush - Much like V3 at Beacon, Blake did not expect Adam to show up at all and she had no back up at the time. Just her and Adam, alone.
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    Even so, she should have remembered that she basically said he was worthless to her.

    You get a like for showing how to properly pull the stakes off though.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Even so, she should have remembered that she basically said he was worthless to her.
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    My god, she didn't remember what she said to throw her abuser off balance the last time now that the rat fuck scumbag has her isolated and alone in the wilds, her communication with her teammates destroyed, and seemingly with no help coming. Truly she is inconsistent!
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Even so, she should have remembered that she basically said he was worthless to her.
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    At no point did she indicate she forgot what she said. Just that instead of facing him from a position of strength where she felt empowered she was now facing him from a position of weakness, isolated and afraid. So she might not have had the same emotional confidence in that situation. Just a thought.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    At no point did she indicate she forgot what she said. Just that instead of facing him from a position of strength where she felt empowered she was now facing him from a position of weakness, isolated and afraid. So she might not have had the same emotional confidence in that situation. Just a thought.
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    Shocking, isn't it? Who would have thought the two encounters were entirely different?
     
    VolantRedX said:
    At no point did she indicate she forgot what she said. Just that instead of facing him from a position of strength where she felt empowered she was now facing him from a position of weakness, isolated and afraid. So she might not have had the same emotional confidence in that situation. Just a thought.
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    So... in other words, Adam was right when he said:

    Adam: (chuckling evilly) Still too afraid to face me on your own.
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    I feel for Ironwood, I really do. In my own small insignificant by comparison I feel like I have been where he is, I know that I burned quite a few bridges simply because backing down and changing my approach was utterly alien and the only thing I could think about doing was digging my heels even further and giving even less in the hope that I would come out better even though when all was said and done all I had was regrets and less people to rely on.

    One thing I hope for in the next season is that Ironwood survives to have the epiphany that I did, that no matter how much satisfaction you get when the other side turns away from you for not budging, it feels so much better to move alongside someone lose to find something that works.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    So... in other words, Adam was right when he said:
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    Fuck him, both ends, with the pieces of Gambol Shroud. Why should Blake have to face down her abuser alone? Why in the fuck should you expect an abuse victim to go near someone that used his position of authority to gaslight and abuse her for years, to the point they were in a 'relationship'. Do you expect her to prove something? Does she need to defeat him one on one for you to consider her worthy of something?

    Blake would have been fine to never see Adam again. She didn't need the closure. He decided to track her across a continent and wait until she was alone because he's a worthless piece of shit.
     
    Having a support network is a big need for people suffering or who have suffered abuse, and it's often through isolation that an abusive relationship festers and the abuser retains power.

    This idea Blake should face him alone is born of that old "face your fears" mantra that really isn't meant for the situation she finds herself in, she's many levels beyond that.
     
    Marco said:
    Having a support network is a big need for people suffering or who have suffered abuse, and it's often through isolation that an abusive relationship festers and the abuser retains power.

    This idea Blake should face him alone is born of that old "face your fears" mantra that really isn't meant for the situation she finds herself in, she's many levels beyond that.
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    Which also ties to the growing narrative in RWBY that "We Are Better Together"
     
    Steelhooves said:
    I feel for Ironwood, I really do. In my own small insignificant by comparison I feel like I have been where he is, I know that I burned quite a few bridges simply because backing down and changing my approach was utterly alien and the only thing I could think about doing was digging my heels even further and giving even less in the hope that I would come out better even though when all was said and done all I had was regrets and less people to rely on.

    One thing I hope for in the next season is that Ironwood survives to have the epiphany that I did, that no matter how much satisfaction you get when the other side turns away from you for not budging, it feels so much better to move alongside someone lose to find something that works.
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    I've felt it was likely he's not going to die for a long time. Instead, he's going to have a far worse fate. He's going to live. He's going to have to live with the guilt of sending gullible idiots like Clover to their death, to the fact he knowingly betrayed the people it was his duty to protect, that he ordered the murder of an elderly woman and shot a teenage boy in cold blood, that he overthrew his own civilian government, all because he was so certain he knew best. And he's going to have to live with whatever stupidity he does in volume 8. He's going to find a place in the larger scheme of stopping Salem, but it won't be as a general.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    I've felt it was likely he's not going to die for a long time. Instead, he's going to have a far worse fate. He's going to live. He's going to have to live with the guilt of sending gullible idiots like Clover to their death, to the fact he knowingly betrayed the people it was his duty to protect, that he ordered the murder of an elderly woman and shot a teenage boy in cold blood, that he overthrew his own civilian government, all because he was so certain he knew best. And he's going to have to live with whatever stupidity he does in volume 8. He's going to find a place in the larger scheme of stopping Salem, but it won't be as a general.
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    Oz - "Oh James....I hope now you understand why I did things the way I did."
     
    Pugman said:
    Oz - "Oh James....I hope now you understand why I did things the way I did."
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    My issue with this is Ozping failed, endangered civilians and led a bunch of people to their deaths cos of his own complexes as well. Like, Ironwood's initial idea of "Tell people and unite the world" isn't even the problem, the issue is that he's a paranoid dictator with massive biases, not that he didn't obediently follow Ozpin's plans.
     
    Zam said:
    My issue with this is Ozping failed, endangered civilians and led a bunch of people to their deaths cos of his own complexes as well. Like, Ironwood's initial idea of "Tell people and unite the world" isn't even the problem, the issue is that he's a paranoid dictator with massive biases, not that he didn't obediently follow Ozpin's plans.
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    And yet Oz can admit he has made mistakes. Oz generally tries to listen to people and act accordingly. And even in his most desperate moment to keep his secrets secret he did not take out his weapon.
    Ironwood felt Oz acted to passively, but right now Ironwood is being far to rash in his calls (to put it mildly).
     
    Pugman said:
    And yet Oz can admit he has made mistakes. Oz generally tries to listen to people and act accordingly. And even in his most desperate moment to keep his secrets secret he did not take out his weapon.
    Ironwood felt Oz acted to passively, but right now Ironwood is being far to rash in his calls (to put it mildly).
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    That's not really addressing my point that Ozpin delivering such a line would be both rubbing Ironwood's face in it which while not beyond Oz feels unlikely, but would also be on its face false, because Ozpin both did fail and also Ironwood's ideas aren't bad, just his methods.
     
    Pugman said:
    Oz - "Oh James....I hope now you understand why I did things the way I did."
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    Oz - "Like how I sat idly by and let the villains take up more and more advantages until it was too late for me to do anything or when I put lives in active danger because I didn't think the Relic being a lure for Grimm was something worth telling."
     
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