Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • ZQFMGB said:
    I still don't get why the show expected me to sympathize with Ozpin's incompetent ass and fucking Qrow over Ironwood, who at that point had done nothing wrong, or why the Atlesian military was suddenly a bad thing despite helping earlier during the breach).
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Shall I list the ways?

    • Ironwood shows up with a fucking army out of nowhere without giving so much as a heads up to Ozpin or seemingly to the Vale Council (since they likely would have passed that information on to the headmaster). On Remnant you can kinda sorta justify that kind of thing because of Grimm but in the real world that kind of thing makes people worry that you're either planning to declare war or that you intend to bully them with the threat of military force. Even on Remnant it's clearly sketchy and it's pointed out that it makes people nervous.
    • Ironwood's grand smarter than "incompetent ass Ozpin" plan was to take his entire military force to barge straight into unknown territory without so much as sending in any scouts first. If Ironwood had his way his army wouldn't have been in place to defend against the Breach and the White Fang would have been alerted earlier and would have just charged into Vale with all their stolen (from Atlas) Paladins still intact and with no Huntresses on site to keep the Breach somewhat contained long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
      And let us forget that if not for bad luck on par with an Act of God there wouldn't even have been a Breach. If not for that street collapsing Ruby would have just snuck back to camp to report, Oobleck would have called in to report and a team of Huntsmen and Huntresses would have been assembled to dismantle the White Fang operation before it could get a chance to strike.
    • By the point Qrow showed up Ironwood had figuratively stabbed Ozpin in the back by ratting him out to the council (which was likely going to lead to Ozpin being fired) in order to get himself placed in charge of the Vytal Festival's security. We all saw how well that turned out.
    • There was nothing the army did to help that couldn't have been accomplished just as easily by a small friendly and personable group of Huntsmen that wouldn't make people constantly wonder about why the hell their government felt the need to have a foreign army camped on their soil just to hold a festival. If only Ironwood had some people like that in his employ.
    • Also with hindsight let's also not pretend to not notice how utterly tone-deaf it is for Atlas to show up with an army in the middle of Vale during a festival meant to celebrate peace, in the context of a war where Atlas invaded Vale with it's armies to force Atlesian values onto Vale.
     
    Leingod said:
    Jaune, probably. There's always been those accusations that Jaune is Miles's SI even though he didn't make the character - Monty did - and he didn't cast himself as Jaune - Monty did - and he's usually distanced himself from writing the character personally - that was usually Kerry and Monty.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I know about Jaune I was just thrown off when he said "characters" as if there were multiple.
     
    ZQFMGB said:
    Y'know, you guys could actually watch the video and address the points he made about the writing instead of lashing out on one minor thing. I know it's long but if you want to address Hbomberguy's arguments it's better to watch the thing rather than rely on second hand criticism. Also I don't precisely remember that bit but I'm pretty sure he doesn't exactly says that Williams stole the music, more that both tracks sound alike and are very generic. I could be wrong though. I was more focused on his criticism of the show's character development and handling of racism than a potentially questionable joke that he doesn't even use as a major criticism.

    And frankly he's pretty generous on some points, like how he praises the end of volume 3 despite this part also having issues (I still don't get why the show expected me to sympathize with Ozpin's incompetent ass and fucking Qrow over Ironwood, who at that point had done nothing wrong, or why the Atlesian military was suddenly a bad thing despite helping earlier during the breach). He also said that he specifically wanted to tackle the first 3 volumes in this video, so of course he's gonna address issues that mainly turn up in these.

    I know RWBY gets a lot of unfair and hateful criticism but this video doesn't qualify as that IMO. He even titled it differently than he usually does his negative criticism essays, and points out a lot of positives. Yeah, he's pretty snarky on some points, but IMO said points deserve it, especially the White Fang and the potential creepy self-insert characters.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    While I understand your point and your frustration, I'm afraid that both the medium and nature of these things don't lend themselves well to reasoned and extensive debate. The video is two and a half hours long, not an impossible length to be sure, but long enough that detailed and nuanced responses could take an hour or so all on their own, and that's without any additional research or note-taking or re-watching. Most people aren't going to want to spend the time doing that, and why would they? As you said, RWBY gets a lot of hateful and unfair criticism - why would people make the investment if what they're being told is anywhere from the same thing to perhaps slightly better?

    They'll pick a single or biggest issue and focus on that because that's what people do when faced with things of this length. Otherwise, it just becomes a tangled mess.

    There is a reason critique has to be concise, and I strongly suspect this videos runtime could have been significantly cut down and next to nothing lost if a more structured approach had been taken rather than this rambled approach Youtubers seem intent on taking where length apparently means insight.

    Now, I will dispute your claim that one minor thing has been lashed out at, it wasn't. One point was focused on, briefly, because of how it was portrayed when being told. It was worth clarification because, had music been stolen, it would have had consequences for the show and the musician. Other things were pointed out before and after that too.
     
    Last edited:
    Hbomb isn't saying anything new. RWBY is bad at informing the audience about lore and setting without grinding things to a halt to have someone just talk for a long time. Characters are inconsistent in their abilities and are pushed by the story more then the story is pushed by the character. The Faunus are a huge horrible mess and racism allegory that is full of white people that at the same time as blink and you miss it racism shown on screen was a bad idea and shouldn't have been done in the first place. The last part of season 3 was great yet put into sharp contrast how little the rest of of RWBY does storytelling wise or drama wise.

    I agree with it but the lines in the sand on every single one of those has been drawn long ago and fought over dozens and dozens of times.
     
    Tasrill said:
    Hbomb isn't saying anything new. RWBY is bad at informing the audience about lore and setting without grinding things to a halt to have someone just talk for a long time. Characters are inconsistent in their abilities and are pushed by the story more then the story is pushed by the character. The Faunus are a huge horrible mess and racism allegory that is full of white people that at the same time as blink and you miss it racism shown on screen was a bad idea and shouldn't have been done in the first place. The last part of season 3 was great yet put into sharp contrast how little the rest of of RWBY does storytelling wise or drama wise.

    I agree with it but the lines in the sand on every single one of those has been drawn long ago and fought over dozens and dozens of times.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    So basically if he's not saying anything new and all the arguments have been had before and have been settled why would anyone watch him? Is he offering some radical insight that will change everyone's minds? Because frankly, I think early RWBY is about as unrepresentative of the larger product as it gets and will only grow more and more irrelevant as things grow more distant. I'm not about to stop watching RWBY now because something in Volume 2 didn't add up. That's sort of the problem of doing an overview of a 7 season show that has spread out over nearly a decade, most of the relevant things to talk about are new so there's not really a point in looking at season 1 or 2 for criticisms.
     
    Hbomb has two serious issue with his fiction reviews: mixing valid, serious literary critique in with utterly petty shit, and making the reviews impenetrably long. It's Mauler tier, but unlike Mauler there's actual good content in there that you need to dredge through two hours to get to and that frustrates me more than Mauler ever could.
     
    A live tweet thread of someone's reactions to the video.


    Gosh his video is so bad, the first twenty minutes were a nasty minded garbage fire but it just gets worse.

    Jcogginsa said:
    An elaboration on this point
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Ooooh this was a marvelous read, I love it, RWBY's deconstructionist take honestly feels very worthwhile and applicable to RL, I love the idea of Salem as a metaphorical "inevitability" whom is not actually inevitable that people just trick or are tricked into not trying to solve and the point on sacrificing freedom for security not actually providing security (chefs kiss)

    Leingod said:
    Jaune, probably. There's always been those accusations that Jaune is Miles's SI even though he didn't make the character - Monty did - and he didn't cast himself as Jaune - Monty did - and he's usually distanced himself from writing the character personally - that was usually Kerry and Monty.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He also says Neptune is Kerry's self insert.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    So basically if he's not saying anything new and all the arguments have been had before and have been settled why would anyone watch him?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Because he has a clickbaity thumbnail on his video and there is a surprisingly large number of people who have nothing better to do with their lives than spending more time binge watching videos talking about how much a show they have still not stopped watching sucks instead of binge watching actual shows that they might like?
     
    VolantRedX said:
    So basically if he's not saying anything new and all the arguments have been had before and have been settled why would anyone watch him? Is he offering some radical insight that will change everyone's minds? Because frankly, I think early RWBY is about as unrepresentative of the larger product as it gets and will only grow more and more irrelevant as things grow more distant. I'm not about to stop watching RWBY now because something in Volume 2 didn't add up. That's sort of the problem of doing an overview of a 7 season show that has spread out over nearly a decade, most of the relevant things to talk about are new so there's not really a point in looking at season 1 or 2 for criticisms.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I mean those are still the problems I have with RWBY after six seasons and he clearly has seen to at least season six.

    Mook said:
    Because he has a clickbaity thumbnail on his video and there is a surprisingly large number of people who have nothing better to do with their lives than spending more time binge watching videos talking about how much a show they have still not stopped watching sucks instead of binge watching actual shows that they might like?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Some people watch RWBY because they believe it is good. Others enjoy watching it for it's value as campy media. I mean do you even want to know how many things I love to watch that I also thing aren't very good? It is a lot.
     
    Death, while inevitable, we don't stop trying to fight it. We get check-ups, take medicine, take care of each other. Why? Because we want to live. We want our loved ones to live. We want to see what the next day holds.

    Also, hate critics are cowards. They could stop watching the shows at any time and find other "better" content, but they are so invested in that youtube revenue they are afraid to let it go.
     
    Pugman said:
    Also, hate critics are cowards. They could stop watching the shows at any time and find other "better" content, but they are so invested in that youtube revenue they are afraid to let it go.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yes, because that is the only reason and not because they address disappointment in a media they had loved until it did them dirty.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Yes, because that is the only reason and not because they address disappointment in a media they had loved until it did them dirty.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Hbomb isn't even saying RWBY did anyone dirty. He said it had so much potential and every so often you see these flashes of brilliance in some fight or some little character moment and yet outside of the season 3 ending it is always just those flashes. Otherwise it is just... not very good but in the back of your head you know exactly how good it could be
     
    Zam said:
    Gosh his video is so bad, the first twenty minutes were a nasty minded garbage fire but it just gets worse.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I wonder, if Monty didn't tragically die would these people still blame everything on Miles and Kerry or would they actually hold Monty to account for any of his plot points they didn't like?

    Tasrill said:
    Some people watch RWBY because they believe it is good. Others enjoy watching it for it's value as campy media. I mean do you even want to know how many things I love to watch that I also thing aren't very good? It is a lot.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    But RWBY isn't even campy bad. Like as far as I can tell the issues people complain about aren't things that you'd expect in so bad it's good media. It's competently made with a fairly simple and direct plot and lacks any out there moments or story beats. Like RWBY doesn't seem fun bad, but rather boring and unengaging.

    Psyga315 said:
    Yes, because that is the only reason and not because they address disappointment in a media they had loved until it did them dirty.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    But Hbomb admitted he didn't watch the show and only did it because he was paid to make a negative criticism video for the people who feel validated when a big name YT critic complains. And again by all accounts, he's not saying anything new. If there's nothing to add to the discourse what is the point of joining in? Like Hbomb is a professional critic and thus him choosing to do this video shouldn't be taken the same way as some random asshat complaining on their headset mic for 40 minutes. If you're a professional art critic you should be actually trying to add to the actual discussion about the art you're discussing.
     
    Tasrill said:
    Hbomb isn't even saying RWBY did anyone dirty. He said it had so much potential and every so often you see these flashes of brilliance in some fight or some little character moment and yet outside of the season 3 ending it is always just those flashes. Otherwise it is just... not very good but in the back of your head you know exactly how good it could be
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He's really got to sstop confusing his opinions with fact, keep in mind this is a guy who doesn't know what a ribbon is, thinks you can't do dynamic action scenes on a train, completely failed to understand the Yellow Trailer, finds the prospect of people as villains inherently bad because monsters exist and is clearly just pissy that the show wasn't what he imagined it'd be based on a tech demo. The fact he has to make shit up should show how clearly unhinged from reality his complaints are and how bereft of worth his video is. He's spent more time on RWBY than I do shows I like, its deeply pathetic.
    VolantRedX said:
    I wonder, if Monty didn't tragically die would these people still blame everything on Miles and Kerry or would they actually hold Monty to account for any of his plot points they didn't like?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    They'd likely still blame Miles & Kerry, Hbomberguy in particular seems to worship Monty Oum to the point of ignoring all the hands he had in decisions in the story that he didn't like so I see no reason why they wouldn't do the same.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    But RWBY isn't even campy bad. Like as far as I can tell the issues people complain about aren't things that you'd expect in so bad it's good media. It's competently made with a fairly simple and direct plot and lacks any out there moments or story beats. Like RWBY doesn't seem fun bad, but rather boring and unengaging.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    A literal wish granting genie and a 12 year old getting possessed by an old man are both huge plot points in the show.

    Zam said:
    He's really got to sstop confusing his opinions with fact, keep in mind this is a guy who doesn't know what a ribbon is, thinks you can't do dynamic action scenes on a train, completely failed to understand the Yellow Trailer, finds the prospect of people as villains inherently bad because monsters exist and is clearly just pissy that the show wasn't what he imagined it'd be based on a tech demo. The fact he has to make shit up should show how clearly unhinged from reality his complaints are and how bereft of worth his video is. He's spent more time on RWBY than I do shows I like, its deeply pathetic.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Um wat? He made a joke that Blake had 2 sets of ears and that hiding cat ears in ribbons is silly. He said dynamic action scenes on trains are more limiting and linear then other places to fight, and said White Fang was a shitty idea for a villain cause you have violent civil rights activists as your bad guys your characters don't feel bad about killing. Like you can just say you don't agree with him without making things up. I mean you have actual things he got wrong you could focus on instead such as the Jaune as self insert. It doesn't you know make Jaune a better character but it is at least a thing he said that you can destroy with facts and logic.
     
    Tasrill said:
    A literal wish granting genie and a 12 year old getting possessed by an old man are both huge plot points in the show.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    How exactly is that camp? Genie's show up in Aladdin and Aang literally gets possessed by previous incarnations of the Avatar.

    Tasrill said:
    Um wat? He made a joke that Blake had 2 sets of ears and that hiding cat ears in ribbons is silly. He said dynamic action scenes on trains are more limiting and linear then other places to fight, and said White Fang was a shitty idea for a villain cause you have violent civil rights activists as your bad guys your characters don't feel bad about killing. Like you can just say you don't agree with him without making things up. I mean you have actual things he got wrong you could focus on instead such as the Jaune as self insert. It doesn't you know make Jaune a better character but it is at least a thing he said that you can destroy with facts and logic.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It was one of his veiled complaints about her weapon. Also how is it silly? He claimed even as he showed clips of Blake being in a dynamic action scene thus showing his own points are incoherent and nonsensical. Even ignoring that he conflated the WF with the main plot, he also blamed it all on Mile's and Kerry despite it being Monty's idea & also laid out his initial issue as "You might be wondering why there's human bad guys in a show with monsters" so no. I made nothing up, he however accused Jeff William's of plagiarism.
    VolantRedX said:
    Jinn can't grant wishes. Like she's literally not a wish-granting genie. She's the embodiment of the relic of knowledge and thus just is able to answer three questions every 100 years.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This too, I wonder if they watched the show?
     
    Zam said:
    "You might be wondering why there's human bad guys in a show with monsters"
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Does he actually say that? Because like that's super dumb. Tons of monster movies and tv shows have human bad guys. From Aliens to a ton of Zombie films. I could understand if he came at it from the angle of "this is a bad genre convention and the show should have focused on monster hunting". I wouldn't agree, but I could understand that point of view.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top