RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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I still don't get why people wanted Adam to have a redemption arc.

Well in truth from what I see most people have moved from "redemption" to "written better" and honestly every character in the show could of been written better. From Ruby to Salem and so on.


Kinda unfair to compare someone who's total screen time is less the length of an average episode for both Zuko and Catra.

and that I can agree with.
Zuko and Catra were always a major part of the story and always on the heels of the heroes who would one day be their friends.
Meanwhile Adam was more in the background looking like a brooding badass.
 
I still don't get why people wanted Adam to have a redemption arc.

Because they never realized what kind of person Adam was meant to be. He wasn't the morally conflicted anti-hero doing what he thought was necessary because he couldn't find another way. That was Ilia. Adam was the murder loving, abusive monster that uses a noble cause to justify his crimes.
 
I still don't get why people wanted Adam to have a redemption arc.
There's answers to that but some would likely just lead to drama, so I'll stick with the one from some none crummy folks and say that some got really into making up head-canon's for Adam early on and got way to invested into them and sokept hoping the show would prove them right.
Kinda unfair to compare someone who's total screen time is less the length of an average episode for both Zuko and Catra.
I'm pretty sure their point was that those two characters were written with the potential for redemption in mind for their arcs, and showed it, while Adam didn't,, hence the people demanding he get a redemption arc are being ridiculous cos there was never anything to build on and the writers intended that.
Well in truth from what I see most people have moved from "redemption" to "written better" and honestly every character in the show could of been written better. From Ruby to Salem and so on.
When it comes to Adam I generally find the claim to be disingenuous, its less "written better" and more "Written how I head-canoned the guy who wanted to blow up civilians for laugh, which is as a cool, badass anti hero who can kick everyone's ass".
Meanwhile Adam was more in the background looking like a brooding badass.
He was an antagonist, he's effectively Blake's origin story, that's the role he was written for and he played it well I feel.
 
Because they never realized what kind of person Adam was meant to be. He wasn't the morally conflicted anti-hero doing what he thought was necessary because he couldn't find another way. That was Ilia. Adam was the murder loving, abusive monster that uses a noble cause to justify his crimes.

And this is where the "Ilia stole Adam's story" people come in. And those people I just have to shake my head at and laugh.
 
People wanted a well-intentioned extremist White Fang member and Adam's early introduction meant they tried to shove him into that role.

But they really shouldn't have because his first appearance has him making a snide remark that trivializes Blake's concerns while planning to murder civilians. Not only doesn't he care about human lives, he doesn't care about Blake's feelings.
 
People wanted a well-intentioned extremist White Fang member and Adam's early introduction meant they tried to shove him into that role.

But they really shouldn't have because his first appearance has him making a snide remark that trivializes Blake's concerns while planning to murder civilians. Not only doesn't he care about human lives, he doesn't care about Blake's feelings.
Caring about things is uncool. That's why they thought he was cool
 
Because they never realized what kind of person Adam was meant to be. He wasn't the morally conflicted anti-hero doing what he thought was necessary because he couldn't find another way. That was Ilia. Adam was the murder loving, abusive monster that uses a noble cause to justify his crimes.
To be honest I would agree whole heartily if the brand wasn't shown near the end. Which gave more context of him.


Since then I saw him more like the various violent leaders who lead resistance movement like King Philip of New England who's goal was to exterminate the colonist of the 13 colonies for all their wrong doing they did to native Americans and managed to kill off 20% of the population of the entire 13 colonies. Men, women, and children where all valid target.

Or the slave revolt leader of Nate Turner or Jacque dessaline. Both who endured untold abuse and committed various atrocities as retribution. For Jacque it was the attempt extermination of the French population of Haiti. For Nate it was viewing children and babies as valid target to be killed off. Along with viewing it as a "Righteous duty" ordained by God that they all be killed.

Adam shares in my opinion unsettling similarities to these leaders. In the pursuit of "justice" or revenge they carved a bloody path with no room for compromise with those they viewed as oppressive with no distinction.
 
And you also have those that claim Weiss should of been part of the Adam story so she "can see the monsters her father's company made" and other reasons.
Despite the fact that Weiss knows how horrible her father is and knows how his actions are in part why the Fang is the way it is.
How does she know? She lived with her father, and she became friends with Blake (a former Fang member). Weiss knows both sides of the coin, she does not need to have a face-2-face with the living embodiment of that rage.
 
People wanted a well-intentioned extremist White Fang member and Adam's early introduction meant they tried to shove him into that role.

But they really shouldn't have because his first appearance has him making a snide remark that trivializes Blake's concerns while planning to murder civilians. Not only doesn't he care about human lives, he doesn't care about Blake's feelings.
Honestly, basically every other member of the WF works better for that role than Adam, even the nameless lieutenant.

Indeed, plus if you read his body language it looked like he was trying to loom over and intimidate her, along with the exchange making it clear he wasn't "meant" to be blowing up the train with civies on board and that he hadn't told Blake of it.
To be honest I would agree whole heartily if the brand wasn't shown near the end. Which gave more context of him.


Since then I saw him more like the various violent leaders who lead resistance movement like King Philip of New England who's goal was to exterminate the colonist of the 13 colonies for all their wrong doing they did to native Americans and managed to kill off 20% of the population of the entire 13 colonies. Men, women, and children where all valid target.

Or the slave revolt leader of Nate Turner or Jacque dessaline. Both who endured untold abuse and committed various atrocities as retribution. For Jacque it was the attempt extermination of the French population of Haiti. For Nate it was viewing children and babies as valid target to be killed off. Along with viewing it as a "Righteous duty" ordained by God that they all be killed.

Adam shares in my opinion unsettling similarities to these leaders. In the pursuit of "justice" or revenge they carved a bloody path with no room for compromise with those they viewed as oppressive with no distinction.
The thing for me with this take is that Adam never shows he cares about the Faunus. He likes hurting humans sure, but he takes just as much pleasure in hurting Faunus, acruing power and the like, along with his "rebellious spirit" floundering and him becoming a largely servile (if self serving) minion cos Cinder flexed on him showing he has no real back bone. Plus I feel if he were actually as motivated by hate as that he'd actually have directed some ire at Weiss or the SDC at least, but he never expresses any real such interest or focus and instead uses his brand as a tool for gaslighting Blake, meaning it was almost certainly intentional that he didn't care about the SDC rather than an oversight.
 
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To be honest I would agree whole heartily if the brand wasn't shown near the end. Which gave more context of him.


Since then I saw him more like the various violent leaders who lead resistance movement like King Philip of New England who's goal was to exterminate the colonist of the 13 colonies for all their wrong doing they did to native Americans and managed to kill off 20% of the population of the entire 13 colonies. Men, women, and children where all valid target.

Or the slave revolt leader of Nate Turner or Jacque dessaline. Both who endured untold abuse and committed various atrocities as retribution. For Jacque it was the attempt extermination of the French population of Haiti. For Nate it was viewing children and babies as valid target to be killed off. Along with viewing it as a "Righteous duty" ordained by God that they all be killed.

Adam shares in my opinion unsettling similarities to these leaders. In the pursuit of "justice" or revenge they carved a bloody path with no room for compromise with those they viewed as oppressive with no distinction.
Except it's very clear by his actions that not only is his anti-human rhetoric largely just an outlet for his hate (he works with Cinder and Roman without much objection just to save his own skin) and his concern for his fellow faunus seems to hover in or around jackshit. He murders anyone who stands in his way to power, leaves his followers to die in order to avoid capture, and kills his remaining followers when they question him.
 
You also have the people who say Adam's downfall was clearly Blake's fault. They mostly follow Adam's logic that she abandoned someone who clearly was in need of mental help for her own selfish reasons. The bitch then proceed to lie her way into Beacon, hid who she really was and run when confronted with the truth.
 
Except it's very clear by his actions that not only is his anti-human rhetoric largely just an outlet for his hate (he works with Cinder and Roman without much objection just to save his own skin) and his concern for his fellow faunus seems to hover in or around jackshit. He murders anyone who stands in his way to power, leaves his followers to die in order to avoid capture, and kills his remaining followers when they question him.
Which is still somewhat similar cause some of the leaders of said movements did exactly what he did. Leaning more into the Jacque desalline and the Haitians rebels, who was a former slave turned general who did exactly what you where saying.
 
How exactly a character that didn't show up until V4 'stole' Adam's story
Eh, it's a little easier to understand if you believe in the theory that the Adam we see before "Heroes and Monsters" was a completely different Adam altogether and when they made the change, salvaged what was left of old Adam into Ilia, hence why she has very similar traits to Adam.
 
Eh, it's a little easier to understand if you believe in the theory that the Adam we see before "Heroes and Monsters" was a completely different Adam altogether and when they made the change, salvaged what was left of old Adam into Ilia, hence why she has very similar traits to Adam.
Of course, that's a crazy theory, given that, like I pointed out, he's already a monster in the Black trailer.
 
Even beyond that Blake repeatedly talks about how he'd abuse and gaslight her. Sure she never says it outright but I remember by volume 3 it was firmly established that Adam was a bad person who emotionally abused Blake. Sort of hard to take any sort of redemption for such a character seriously since she outright says he'd constantly promise to change but then turn around and continue to do things that hurt her.
 
Eh, it's a little easier to understand if you believe in the theory that the Adam we see before "Heroes and Monsters" was a completely different Adam altogether and when they made the change, salvaged what was left of old Adam into Ilia, hence why she has very similar traits to Adam.
That theory never made any sense, cos the Adam we see in Heroes and Monsters is the same Adam who on the same day was going to trick Blake onto a mission to blow up civilians for a laugh and tried to intimidate and pressure her into going along with it and who upon seeing Cinder flex on his mooks instantly caved and the next time he showed up in the timeline was saying he'd put down a rebellion against Cinder cos she got his soldiers killed.

No one who actually pays attention to the events shown on screen, be they organized in order of view or within the timeline, can believe in good faith there is any notable change in Adam's overall world view, personality or character.

Anyway onto other topics, Summer is Sleep Beauty, yes, no maybe?
 
That theory never made any sense, cos the Adam we see in Heroes and Monsters is the same Adam who on the same day was going to trick Blake onto a mission to blow up civilians for a laugh and tried to intimidate and pressure her into going along with it and who upon seeing Cinder flex on his mooks instantly caved and the next time he showed up in the timeline was saying he'd put down a rebellion against Cinder cos she got his soldiers killed.

No one who actually pays attention to the events shown on screen, be they organized in order of view or within the timeline, can believe in good faith there is any notable change in Adam's overall world view, personality or character.

Anyway onto other topics, Summer is Sleep Beauty, yes, no maybe?


So if we take this theory into account, then we can easily see Ruby falling into the same trap her mother did. We have seen how much stock Ruby puts into her role as a leader and such. How much she tries to help others. Even when she isn't exactly confident or doesn't know how to help we see her worry about others.

How about this for another theory.
Summer was the last known Silver Eyed person in the world. Now with that thought in mind, let's say Summer went to face Salem with the plan of letting Salem THINK she had vanquished the threat of Silver Eyes. This way Ruby could live and grow up in peace, maybe even hoped she would not grow up to follow in her footsteps. However as we know little Ruby was raised o stories of Summer and Heroes.
 
People wanted a well-intentioned extremist White Fang member and Adam's early introduction meant they tried to shove him into that role.

But they really shouldn't have because his first appearance has him making a snide remark that trivializes Blake's concerns while planning to murder civilians. Not only doesn't he care about human lives, he doesn't care about Blake's feelings.

People wanted a Sienna Khan/Magneto like figure and projected that onto Adam. A true believer in the cause who genuinely brought into the idea that violence was the only way to get any kind of equality for the Faunus. The story persents Faunus racism like a major issue, and introduces a group directly tied to that issue in the first few volumes, so assuming Faunus racism will be a major subplot is not unreasonable.

Then the story killed of all the Sienna Khan like figures (Ilia doesn't count as her redemption is more tied into Blake than anything else) and left only Adam and those people where bitter.

Essentially they got hyped for a side-story centred around civil rights movement becoming excessively violent, but instead got one centred around a story about an abusive relationship. The White Fang plot could have been done a lot better.
 
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So if we take this theory into account, then we can easily see Ruby falling into the same trap her mother did. We have seen how much stock Ruby puts into her role as a leader and such. How much she tries to help others. Even when she isn't exactly confident or doesn't know how to help we see her worry about others.

How about this for another theory.
Summer was the last known Silver Eyed person in the world. Now with that thought in mind, let's say Summer went to face Salem with the plan of letting Salem THINK she had vanquished the threat of Silver Eyes. This way Ruby could live and grow up in peace, maybe even hoped she would not grow up to follow in her footsteps. However as we know little Ruby was raised o stories of Summer and Heroes.
If we follow the Sleeping Beauty line of reasoning, I agree that Summer probably went to find Salem for the sake of protecting Ruby, knowing that Ruby would always have a target painted on her back because of her silver eyes. I do not think, however, that Summer intended to lose. For one, there's no indication that any action was taken to hide Ruby Rose or her presence from the world. If deliberately martyring herself before Salem was her plan, surely she would've taken some steps to make sure that Tai kept Ruby hidden from Salem's agents. Instead, Tai allowed Ruby to follow in her mother's footsteps, attending Signal Academy (a school at which he was an instructor) and later Beacon. Doing so made sure that Ruby would at some point come to the attention of Salem's agents.

No, I think that Summer legitimately thought she could some how end Salem's reign. She went to permanently stop Salem and in doing so save Ruby from a life of constantly looking over her shoulder. If Summer and Ruby are really as alike as the show tells us, this surety of purpose makes a lot of sense.
 
What I find interesting is Oz seemed legit surprised that Ruby had silver eyes. I feel like Sunmer found out whatever it was that made Raven take off (likely Salem's immortality) but instead of running she went to confront Salem herself. But she knew it was likely a suicide mission so she told Tai and Qrow to keep Oz's attention away from Ruby somehow. Yeah she'd fight Salem but she didn't want her daughters caught in it too.
 
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