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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • I feel like I need to read the CFVY book, cos I usually look at Vacuo and get lost in headcanons regarding either multi-polity mini factions and the like, or assumes its basically a loosely organized semi-anarchist (Real anarchism, not the governments bastardisation of the word) state.
     
    Zam said:
    I feel like I need to read the CFVY book, cos I usually look at Vacuo and get lost in headcanons regarding either multi-polity mini factions and the like, or assumes its basically a loosely organized semi-anarchist (Real anarchism, not the governments bastardisation of the word) state.
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    you should, especially since the next book will be out soon.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    I'd like to think that Ironwood wasn't that bad... but his Ace-Ops charged Team RWBY for possessing and using unauthorized weapons, like that was a crime separate from being illegal border-hoppers. If Atlesian citizens are not allowed to own and use weapons in their own self-defense without the explicit permission of the government, that's a Big Yikes from me.
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    I mean it dosent have to be ironwood that set it up
     
    Zam said:
    I feel like I need to read the CFVY book, cos I usually look at Vacuo and get lost in headcanons regarding either multi-polity mini factions and the like, or assumes its basically a loosely organized semi-anarchist (Real anarchism, not the governments bastardisation of the word) state.
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    There simply HAS to be a port city on Vacuo's northern shore, or the ship Sun arrived in Vale on couldn't have been loaded with anything. The maps never show a river large enough for such a vessel going straight into the heart of the desert, so it's easy to assume that Vacuo City is landlocked.


    Without spoiling much of anything in After The Fall, but putting it under spoilers just to be safe...

    The first book doesn't actually show us Vacuo City, which I'm looking forward to in the next book.

    We see only a little slice of Vacuo City's closest neighboring settlement. Coquina isn't called a city, but it's at least large enough to have a permanent combat school named Oscuro, as well as accept a caravan of refugees from four entire villages. It has at least one oasis which is treated like a public park rather than the closely-guarded source of all of their water for drinking and irrigation. The settlement is also close enough to Vacuo City that Huntsmen will WALK between them.

    Other than that, we only see villages small enough that they need Team CFVY to help defend themselves against unusually large and frequent Grimm attacks.

    One village was strong and wealthy enough to have its own CCT support tower, which is how Shade got the message that spurred it to send Team CFVY.

    One village had no walls or watchtowers at all, and its people either lived in motorized mobile homes that they could use to abandon their oasis the moment things got too dangerous, with any other buildings cheaply built out of local mud or by stretching lengths of canvas over poles and walls.


    Unlike other parts of the world, THESE villagers DO have guns, and they try to use them to help the Huntsmen kill the Grimm.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    There simply HAS to be a port city on Vacuo's northern shore, or the ship Sun arrived in Vale on couldn't have been loaded with anything. The maps never show a river large enough for such a vessel going straight into the heart of the desert, so it's easy to assume that Vacuo City is landlocked.
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    Didn't Sun come from Haven though?

    Sunder the Gold said:
    Without spoiling much of anything in After The Fall, but putting it under spoilers just to be safe...
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    Very interesting details, the first oasis is encouraging for my own HCs, but I'll probably have to read it myself or do other research to get more info on the culture/government systems.
     
    Zam said:
    Didn't Sun come from Haven though?
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    Not directly, no. Weiss clearly said that students were arriving from Vacuo on that ship.

    So, it seems to me that Sun was playing hookie from Haven to visit home, and stopped by Vale on his way back to Haven.


    Honestly, it seems to me that CRWBY were rushing into the Vytal Festival too quickly; the first semester wasn't even complete yet, so it would have been far too soon (by three months) for anyone to put up banners for the Vytal Festival, let alone for exchange students or competitors to arrive.


    Very interesting details, the first oasis is encouraging for my own HCs, but I'll probably have to read it myself or do other research to get more info on the culture/government systems.
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    I do encourage you to read it, and would look forward to talking about the book and the country.
     
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    Sunder the Gold said:
    Not directly, no. Weiss clearly said that students were arriving from Vacuo on that ship.

    So, it seems to me that Sun was playing hookie from Haven to visit home, and stopped by Vale on his way back to Haven.


    Honestly, it seems to me that CRWBY were rushing into the Vytal Festival too quickly; the first semester wasn't even complete yet, so it would have been far too soon (by three months) for anyone to put up banners for the Vytal Festival, let alone for exchange students or competitors to arrive.



    I do encourage you to read it, and would look forward to talking about the book and the country.
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    Oooh yeah, thanks, been awhile XD

    I imagine it was an excuse to have different characters in fight scenes, not that I think it really worked overall but I can see the impulse.

    I'll keep looking into it!
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    I'd like to think that Ironwood wasn't that bad... but his Ace-Ops charged Team RWBY for possessing and using unauthorized weapons, like that was a crime separate from being illegal border-hoppers. If Atlesian citizens are not allowed to own and use weapons in their own self-defense without the explicit permission of the government, that's a Big Yikes from me.
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    In a setting where hordes of death monsters are constantly clamoring for the blood of humanity, that's a law I'm amazed passed and you're right it's a worrying sign.
     
    I'm really not surprised gun control would be a thing in Remnant, broadly speaking as I come from a country with it and am happy about it, as regular people with guns would be utterly useless against Grimm.

    Like, really, keep in mind that we see Atlesian soldier droids with military grade weapons firing constantly at these things, but they either miss or don't do enough damage to kill even mook Grimm much of the time and when they do it usually take awhile.

    Having a bunch of untrained civilians with no Aura firing wildly at the Grimm's would just kill more people and not actually help.

    That doesn't make Ironwood's law in Mantle any less ridiculous given Qrow is a licensed Hunter and logically most sensible places would have some kind of extenuating circumstances clause in the laws for when Grimm are involved and no one dies or gets shot by you.
     
    "Open Carry" can make people feel uneasy.
    "What does that person intend to do with that gun?"
    "Are grimm closer than we're told?"
    etc. etc.

    I mean even in the other cities and towns we have been to we haven't seen people wandering the streets with weapons strapped on unless they just arrived, are leaving, or are working as soldiers or huntsmen.
     
    And keep in mind, they do have guards that fight the Grimm too. If there was literally no defense (i.e. no Penny, no Ace-Ops, not even the robots), then that'd be cause of concern, but in a world where getting slightly upset could cause a risk for your entire village to get swarmed (to the point where that's a common tactic used by bandits to wipe out entire villages), I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to at least have gun control.
     
    I feel happy I dropped off after Season 5. It looks and sounds like it's taken the GoT route and fallen off a cliff.
     
    Pugman said:
    "Open Carry" can make people feel uneasy.
    "What does that person intend to do with that gun?"
    "Are grimm closer than we're told?"
    etc. etc.
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    So you think we should remove fire escapes to reduce the fear of fires?

    Remove fire extinguishers and emergency axes and first aid kits from the inside of buildings and trains?

    People install safety features and then adapt to them as a fact of life, ignoring their implications until an emergency strikes and they need those tools.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    So you think we should remove fire escapes to reduce the fear of fires?

    Remove fire extinguishers and emergency axes and first aid kits from the inside of buildings and trains?

    People install safety features and then adapt to them as a fact of life, ignoring their implications until an emergency strikes and they need those tools.
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    Those all provide actual protection. Military robots with state of the art weapons are barely effective against ordinary Grimm. Ordinary citizens with sidearms (because carrying around an assault rifle all day is not practical) are going to be more of a hazard themselves and others than an effective defence against the Grimm. Let alone all the other problems they might cause.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    And keep in mind, they do have guards that fight the Grimm too. If there was literally no defense (i.e. no Penny, no Ace-Ops, not even the robots), then that'd be cause of concern, but in a world where getting slightly upset could cause a risk for your entire village to get swarmed (to the point where that's a common tactic used by bandits to wipe out entire villages), I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to at least have gun control.
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    Sunder the Gold said:
    So you think we should remove fire escapes to reduce the fear of fires?

    Remove fire extinguishers and emergency axes and first aid kits from the inside of buildings and trains?

    People install safety features and then adapt to them as a fact of life, ignoring their implications until an emergency strikes and they need those tools.
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    and you both are blowing things out of proportion.

    Psyga, you need a lot of fear/anger/etc. to really actually draw grimm in. Not just being miffed at something. Otherwise grimm attacks would be far mor commonplace.

    And you, Sunder, clearly don't understand what I was getting at. People don't look at a fire escape on a building and think "this building is sooooooo gonna catch on fire" and no one looks at a fire extinguisher and think "someone is going to beam me over the head with this or spray me down with it". Meanwhile on the other hand a person can look at a gun and start to get a little worried, since a gun is first and foremost a weapon designed to killed.
    Then you have Ozpin's words to Ironwood about Soldiers vs Guardians. The idea being a guardian provides a sense of comfort (a few huntsmen here and there going about their day and enjoying the festivities) while soldiers bring worry (if this is meant to be an event about peace then why is there a group of battleships from another nation floating overhead).
     
    Tekomandor said:
    Those all provide actual protection. Military robots with state of the art weapons are barely effective against ordinary Grimm.
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    Forgive me if this is "spaghetti" posting, but I haven't posted on SV for a while and I don't really know the boundaries of what qualifies.


    Penny's weapons are state of the art, but the disposable rifles given to disposable drones likely are not.

    Also, the only Sabyrs we see the knights shooting at are off-screen. We see the surviving Grimm reach the knights, but that doesn't show us all of the Sabyrs that died before they got close.

    We saw human soldiers using similar guns against the Sabyrs, with similar results -- one got close enough to strike, so the soldier's partner had to save him, but they both killed all of the other Grimm that ran towards them.


    Ordinary citizens with sidearms (because carrying around an assault rifle all day is not practical)
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    Granted.

    Though if I understand firearms correctly, it's not that rifles are automatically more powerful than handguns (outside of exotic energy-projection technology), but that the length of the rifle allows for a more stable control by putting part of it to your shoulder and using both hands in different places rather than gripping the same point. This greater control leads to better accuracy at range, which is why rifles are favored for long-range firepower.

    But if a Grimm is running straight toward you and/or is already in close-range, you don't so much need the accuracy provided by a rifle. In that situation, you'll wish you had a gun instead of a knife or a club.


    are going to be more of a hazard themselves and others than an effective defence against the Grimm. Let alone all the other problems they might cause.
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    If you can't trust your citizens with guns, then you don't trust your citizens AT ALL.

    Anyone can start a fire, or commit vehicular homicide. Look what happened when a crowd became a mob. They had no problem breaking public property, finding ways to start fires, and improvising weapons. Humans are clever and resourceful.

    If a politician is afraid that ordinary, law-abiding citizens are going to become violent, I have to question why that politician's policies are so unpopular.

    And if ordinary, law-abiding citizens are denied weapons, then the only civilians who have them are the lawbreakers, like Junior's thugs. The police and Huntsmen are not omnipresent; they can respond to crimes after they happen, but cannot prevent all assaults or robberies.
     
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    Sunder the Gold said:
    Forgive me if this is "spaghetti" posting, but I haven't posted on SV for a while and I don't really know the boundaries of what qualifies.


    Penny's weapons are state of the art, but the disposable rifles given to disposable drones likely are not.

    Also, the only Sabyrs we see the knights shooting at are off-screen. We see the surviving Grimm reach the knights, but that doesn't show us all of the Sabyrs that died before they got close.

    We saw human soldiers using similar guns against the Sabyrs, with similar results -- one got close enough to strike, so the soldier's partner had to save him, but they both killed all of the other Grimm that ran towards them.



    Granted.

    Though if I understand firearms correctly, it's not that rifles are automatically more powerful than handguns (outside of exotic energy-projection technology), but that the length of the rifle allows for a more stable control by putting part of it to your shoulder and using both hands in different places rather than gripping the same point. This greater control leads to better accuracy at range, which is why rifles are favored for long-range firepower.

    But if a Grimm is running straight toward you and/or is already in close-range, you don't so much need the accuracy provided by a rifle. In that situation, you'll wish you had a gun instead of a knife or a club.



    If you can't trust your citizens with guns, then you don't trust your citizens AT ALL.

    Anyone can start a fire, or commit vehicular homicide. Look what happened when a crowd became a mob. They had no problem breaking public property, finding ways to start fires, and improvising weapons. Humans are clever and resourceful.

    If a politician is afraid that ordinary, law-abiding citizens are going to become violent, I have to question why that politician's policies are so unpopular.

    And if ordinary, law-abiding citizens are denied weapons, then the only civilians who have them are the lawbreakers, like Junior's thugs. The police and Huntsmen are not omnipresent; they can respond to crimes after they happen, but cannot prevent all assaults or robberies.
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    We see Sabre pouring into Mantle with no difficulty despite being fired on, so I doubt they accomplished much, adding to that soldiers presumably have some basic Aura skill, while robots don't and civilians with side arms are far more likely to fall into the non Aura skill category and thus be unable to hurt Grimm, or even perceive them given how stupidly fast they move, they're more likely to shoot some rando than do anything helpful. Also as noted it takes a ridiculous amount of gunfire for the bots to even take down Mook Grimm and they're precise machines designed for battle,, while as noted, rando civilians are not. Cars serve a purpose other than killing things and also you have to get a licence to drive one and fires meanwhile are kinda hard to stop people from making RL cos things burn easy, and even more easily with Burn Dust. I'd get into the "Good guy with a gun" fallacy but I am pretty sure that'd be deemed off topic.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    How so? Did he dox anyone?
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    Well, he gave out a coworkers number at a convention panel once...

    Mostly though, it's just that he seems to be an abrasive asshole who doesn't know where the line is. Such as claiming Gavin Free and Meg Turney needed to have someone break into their house to teach them the value of owning a gun. Three days later, a crazed fan broke in with the intent of killing Gavin so he could be with Meg. Joels response was a public and loud 'I told you so!'. Combine that with extreme right wing attitudes that conflict with a large percentage of Rooster Teeths staff, and this has been coming for a long time.
     
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