RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

kokuenDG · May 1, 2022

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

Sunder the Gold · May 12, 2020

I agree that Beacon is a college, but it's easy for Japanese fans to ignore that and treat it as a high school, if only in spirit.

Personally, I'd love to see a Battle High School story set in the RWBY universe, like My Hero Academia but with Semblances and custom weapons built to kill.

Graveless said:
For headcanoning and engineering/mechanics. The way I usually feel is that Ruby is passionate about building weapons and also good at it. Yang's good at working with machines, but it's just something that she does because she had to. Kinda of like all of the other random skills that I assume she picked up while taking care of both Ruby and depressed Tai.

The car has a weird noise coming from the engine? Someone needs to check on it, along with performing all of the basic maintenance that Ruby's too small to know about and Tai's likely to let slip.
The sink's leaky? Same thing.
Chair breaks? It's not too hard to fix it or make a new one.
Cooking dinner? It's not going to be great, but it'll be edible.

There a whole host of skills that someone can pick up without anyone noticing and it going uncommented on, even internally.

Yang needed to wait until their father left the house entirely before she put Ruby in a wagon and marched off to find her birth-mother.

It doesn't seem likely to me that she could attempt to fix the sink or a combustion engine without her father getting involved.

Indeed, maybe he DID get involved. Maybe she kept pushing him to teach her how to do things around the house, providing him the motivation he couldn't find in himself, by giving him an opportunity to teach her useful skills.

When the DC comics made it canon that Yang isn't a very good cook, I became more convinced that she is at least a good mechanic.

Oh, I'm sure that she didn't invent any of the technology that went into Ember Celica (if only because Coco built an equally absurd folding weapon at least one year earlier). But she still had to take existing technologies and design a weapon that used those principles in a way that worked for her.

Even with Aura, Ember Celica's unreal mechanisms should need maintenance, and there's never a suggestion that Yang outsources this labor to her little sister or anyone else.

I'm sure that Yang loves to party, but I'm equally sure that she's a hardworking virgin who prioritized her training and her future career over risking her desired career with endless numbers of parties or reckless pursuit of indulgence.

Especially when she likely wanted to set a good example for her sister, not worry her father... and she could look forward to FAR more freedom to enjoy herself after she became a Huntress who could leave home and wander the world in search of adventure.

Likely on the back of a bike that she learned how to maintain herself, as a symbol of her independence.

Zam · May 12, 2020

Sunder the Gold said:
Yang needed to wait until their father left the house entirely before she put Ruby in a wagon and marched off to find her birth-mother.

It doesn't seem likely to me that she could attempt to fix the sink or a combustion engine without her father getting involved.

Indeed, maybe he DID get involved. Maybe she kept pushing him to teach her how to do things around the house, providing him the motivation he couldn't find in himself, by giving him an opportunity to teach her useful skills.

When the DC comics made it canon that Yang isn't a very good cook, I became more convinced that she is at least a good mechanic.

Oh, I'm sure that she didn't invent any of the technology that went into Ember Celica (if only because Coco built an equally absurd folding weapon at least one year earlier). But she still had to take existing technologies and design a weapon that used those principles in a way that worked for her.

Even with Aura, Ember Celica's unreal mechanisms should need maintenance, and there's never a suggestion that Yang outsources this labor to her little sister or anyone else.

I'm sure that Yang loves to party, but I'm equally sure that she's a hardworking virgin who prioritized her training and her future career over risking her desired career with endless numbers of parties or reckless pursuit of indulgence.

Especially when she likely wanted to set a good example for her sister, not worry her father... and she could look forward to FAR more freedom to enjoy herself after she became a Huntress who could leave home and wander the world in search of adventure.

Likely on the back of a bike that she learned how to maintain herself, as a symbol of her independence.

I mean her initial description for Tai was that he shut down, and later that he was always away working, add in that she framed herself as having to keep the family together and that doesn't paint me the mental image of "Dad taught her everything"; she may have dragged it out of him, as that is definitely plausible and would mesh fairly well with that. Whatever the case, that's all I'll say on the matter as I know we'll never agree on Tai.

As far as I am aware basically no engineer invents the technology they use, but that doesn't discredit their engineering chops or technical abilities. My sister in law isn't any less of an engineer cos she didn't invent the machines she oversees after all.

In truth, I never even got the impression she loved to party at all. Not sure how the other stuff lines up, but it does refute the stereotype so fair enough points there. I say that cos the only party we ever see her attend was one she organized and barring a single dance she spent the whole time being a supportive organizer and friend over having direct fun.

I definitely agree Yang wanted to set a good example for Ruby, that lines up well with her more or less parental manner with her, which I kind of like to play on, with Yang kinda bouncing between 'big sis' and 'substitute parent mode' when it comes to Ruby and to a lesser extent others in her friend group. Like everything about her congratulating Ruby and comforting her on the flight to Beacon radiating 'mom-friend' energy, meanwhile leaving Ruby in a sink or swim situation once they arrived felt much more elder sibling-y. Her attempts at handling the Ruby Weiss conflict felt more like the only adult in the room trying to mitigated things, while once the sleep over started she was back in jokey sibling mode. (... I kinda wanna do a re-watch just to try and peg all he moments that give me that vibe)

Apologies if this came off as contentious, that wasn't intended.

Pugman · May 13, 2020

and people still claim she is a "bad sister"
from ditching Ruby to hang out with other people after they got off the airship to pulling Blake away at the end of the Brunswick event instead of grabbing Ruby and/or Qrow
*sighs heavily*
people will just find any small thing to hate on a character.

like, Yang not hanging out with Ruby at the start of their time in Beacon is basically Yang trying to get Ruby to open up and meet new people and make new friends instead of letting her cling to the familiarity that was Yang. We see this type of style again in the Yang trailer where we get Yang trying to train Ruby in hand-to-hand and not letting her bring Crescent Rose with her.
Then at Brunswick we just had Blake be the closest to death with the whole "It's Fine." thing, meanwhile Ruby still had a good head on her shoulders during the whole deal (not to mention had Weiss with her to try and dislodge Qrow from his bar stool). Also Yang is the getaway driver so she has to get out first.

Sunder the Gold · May 13, 2020

Zam said:
I mean her initial description for Tai was that he shut down, and later that he was always away working, add in that she framed herself as having to keep the family together and that doesn't paint me the mental image of "Dad taught her everything"; she may have dragged it out of him, as that is definitely plausible and would mesh fairly well with that. Whatever the case, that's all I'll say on the matter as I know we'll never agree on Tai.

Except it seems like we're agreeing that she dragged it out of him? Not because he didn't want to teach her, but because he didn't want to do anything.

And yeah, Tai eventually had to return to work, and after a day of working through his depression, he would have been even more withdrawn by the time he got home.

(I imagine he at least forced himself to make dinner for everyone, since Yang didn't learn to cook. Though I suppose he might have brought home take-out.)

Still, we know this state of affairs didn't go on forever, or Ruby wouldn't say things like "You sound like Dad (telling me to make friends)", "I don't think Dad would approve of all the boys (at this slumber party)", or "I know what that (having a worried father)'s like".

And we can further suppose that Taiyang did, in fact, teach Yang everything she knows about fighting. "You can tell she learned a lot from Dad."

Winter and Weiss have largely the same opinion of their father, because he was always an asshole and never changed. But it's clear from Yang's present positive relationship with her father, and Ruby's statements about him, that Taiyang started as a good man and eventually recovered from being an emotionally unavailable one. There was a change in him soon enough that Ruby seems to have a different, less complicated, more positive opinion of their father than Yang does.

And maybe there's still issues that Yang has with him that she hasn't yet gotten off her chest, but given how she's held her peace on that (while giving him plenty of lip about other things), it's probably because she honestly respects the man and intellectually understands what he went through.

Which we can infer from how she described him to Blake, when she said that losing Summer Rose was the second time in his life that he'd lost the woman he loved.

I think the person that Yang actually blames for the pain of her childhood is Raven, for abandoning her and her father, and then for never returning, especially after Summer disappeared.

In truth, I never even got the impression she loved to party at all.

We might have different ideas of "to party".

Yang likened the Beacon pre-initiation as a slumber party, was eager for the Vytal Festival, and the Beacon ball, and she volunteered to help organize the ball. She also started and eagerly participated in a food fight.

On her day off, she decided to accompany Flynt, Neon, and Blake to a dance club... when she had a smaller window of free time, she went hunting Grimm in the streets with her sister.

She only ever visited Junior's bar twice, and both times for information. She makes a show of ordering a drink that she never actually tries to get, probably as a joke.

meanwhile leaving Ruby in a sink or swim situation once they arrived felt much more elder sibling-y.

Definitely "tough love" and not neglect.

Pugman said:
and people still claim she is a "bad sister"
from ditching Ruby to hang out with other people after they got off the airship to pulling Blake away at the end of the Brunswick event instead of grabbing Ruby and/or Qrow
*sighs heavily*
people will just find any small thing to hate on a character.

Or use any small thing to justify a character, while ignoring all of the horrible, inexcusable shit they did.

like, Yang not hanging out with Ruby at the start of their time in Beacon is basically Yang trying to get Ruby to open up and meet new people and make new friends instead of letting her cling to the familiarity that was Yang.

Did the DC comics have Qrow call her out on this in a letter, like she'd done something wrong? I might just be remembering fanart, but the art style seemed like the official comic.

Something about Ruby feeding chickens on campus that first day?

Also Yang is the getaway driver so she has to get out first.

Even before that, Yang knows she's the one most capable of literally punching her way through any barrier between them and at least calling for help.

Zam · May 13, 2020

I already said I won't be debating the Tai Yang content so I'll just say I don't really agree with much of what was said and move on.

Sunder the Gold said:
We might have different ideas of "to party".

Yang likened the Beacon pre-initiation as a slumber party, was eager for the Vytal Festival, and the Beacon ball, and she volunteered to help organize the ball. She also started and eagerly participated in a food fight.

On her day off, she decided to accompany Flynt, Neon, and Blake to a dance club... when she had a smaller window of free time, she went hunting Grimm in the streets with her sister.

She only ever visited Junior's bar twice, and both times for information. She makes a show of ordering a drink that she never actually tries to get, probably as a joke.

In this context I think that just means she likes to have fun, as noted she didn't really participate in the party itself and barring Neon and Flynt has only ever been shown going to a club to get info. So yeah, maybe we are just operating on different uses of the term.

Sunder the Gold said:
Definitely "tough love" and not neglect.

... I didn't say it was neglect?

Zam · May 13, 2020

Sorry for the double post but these are interesting:

Parallels in Ruby's and Oscar's Actions in V3 and V7

Support Network Comparisons

ElMariachi · May 13, 2020

Zam said:
In the interest of a new topic, I ha some neat analyse posts to share:

Yang's Engineering

The practicality of Yang's weapons could also be interpreted as a show of maturity contrasting Ruby's: Ruby still being a teenager, she go for the Rule of Cool flashy and exaggerated weapon, while Yang, being more level-headed, made a weapon that at the same time complements her fighting style and can easily pass as innocuous (if flashy) jewelry, which is very practical when you regularly have to visit shady places in the search of a disappeared relative.

Graveless said:
For headcanoning and engineering/mechanics. The way I usually feel is that Ruby is passionate about building weapons and also good at it. Yang's good at working with machines, but it's just something that she does because she had to. Kinda of like all of the other random skills that I assume she picked up while taking care of both Ruby and depressed Tai.

Ruby telling that she built her weapon herself gave me the impression that it was something uncommon, so I wonder if most hunters actually only design their weapons, and it's then a blacksmith's job to make that design real, but Ruby designed and built her weapon from scratch.

Marco said:
Nonsense would imply they got this out of nowhere, but they don't do that. They infer from the comparison of Yang's weapons to other characters and direct occurrences in the show - where everyone else had to call their weapons, Yang already had hers ready. That does show a degree of practicality or forward-thinking that other characters didn't have and is very much a "show" moment. We can also look toward Yang being the only member of team RWBY who brought a personal mode of transportation with her motorbike, everyone else either had to rely on someone else or walk. It wouldn't be nonsense to suggest she was confident enough in her ability to maintain a vehicle where others didn't seem to be.

For the motorbike, maybe it's simply because Yang was the only one who could get a license to drive? Ruby is underage at the beginning of the story, I'm ready to bet that Jacques wouldn't let one of his children have a mean to move around freely, and Blake was trying to hide, so trying to get a license would be a risky move. (although enlisting in Beacon is also risky when you're trying to lay low)

VolantRedX said:
Honestly, the discourse of this show is hurt a great deal by people holding the trailers up as some gospel that any deviation from is malfeasance on the part of the writers. Even if you hold that they're 100% totally canon, shit changes in stories all the time. Sometimes writers decide to take characters in different directions. When people decide that a six-minute trailer from nearly a decade ago is not only the truest form of that character it makes them seem silly. Especially when the things they take away from that trailer are just in their head.

That view makes even less sense when you look at the Red trailer which gave everyone the impression that Ruby would be the dark brooding and taciturn gothic heroine à la Cloud Strife, then the series proper was released and revealed that she's actually the textbook definition of a Genki Girl and no one made a fuss about it.

MonochromeXClown · May 13, 2020

ElMariachi said:
For the motorbike, maybe it's simply because Yang was the only one who could get a license to drive? Ruby is underage at the beginning of the story, I'm ready to bet that Jacques wouldn't let one of his children have a mean to move around freely, and Blake was trying to hide, so trying to get a license would be a risky move. (although enlisting in Beacon is also risky when you're trying to lay low)

For Blake hiding is really weird on how that works in Remnant. Before I thought she was good at hiding her face. But it turned out if the DC comic are anything to go by people who only had second hand account knows who she is. Like the sister of the guard that tried to kill her. Who was in Menagerie when it happened years ago. Doesn't help she didn't wear a mask at all during the time we see her in the WF or even a new look to hide the fact she is Blake. She wore the same outfit in her raid of Mistral in her WF days during her time at Beacon even to the bow on her head. It like she is taunting everyone due to how bad her disguise is.

So its even weirder that Blake who was in international television wasn't found out at all by people who know what she looked like.

Leingod · May 13, 2020

ElMariachi said:
Ruby telling that she built her weapon herself gave me the impression that it was something uncommon, so I wonder if most hunters actually only design their weapons, and it's then a blacksmith's job to make that design real, but Ruby designed and built her weapon from scratch.

Except that her reaction to Jaune going "You made that?" is to say, "All students at Signal forge their own weapons. Didn't you make yours?"

EDIT: The real difference is when you assume that stuff like the "collapsible staff" and "fire sword" she was gushing about earlier (and this is the girl who still admired a weapon that was just a well-made sword and shielth) were what most of the other Signal students were making, while Ruby produced Crescent Rose.

hellgodsrus · May 13, 2020

ElMariachi said:
That view makes even less sense when you look at the Red trailer which gave everyone the impression that Ruby would be the dark brooding and taciturn gothic heroine à la Cloud Strife, then the series proper was released and revealed that she's actually the textbook definition of a Genki Girl and no one made a fuss about it.

Actually, at the time everyone WAS complaining about that (and Weiss being sassy and grumpy) and talking about how much Blake and the Black Trailer sucked and was terrible.

Carrnage · May 13, 2020

ElMariachi said:
For the motorbike, maybe it's simply because Yang was the only one who could get a license to drive? Ruby is underage at the beginning of the story, I'm ready to bet that Jacques wouldn't let one of his children have a mean to move around freely, and Blake was trying to hide, so trying to get a license would be a risky move. (although enlisting in Beacon is also risky when you're trying to lay low)

I could see Jacques discouraging weiss from learning to drive, ostensibly because they have people for that but really so that she can't really go anywhere without his aproval.

LordDarthYoda · May 13, 2020

I've always felt that despite her temper Yang would've been the next best choice for a team leader. Weiss definitely was not a people person at that point and Blake was more likely to run if things got too pressured. It's really hard to say actually, each member of RWBY have their faults but also their strengths. If Oz really did have a Dumbledore level of seeing the best in people I could see him making Blake as a team lead too. He probably knew she had a leadership quality and ability to motivate in her.

Psyga315 · May 13, 2020

LordDarthYoda said:
I've always felt that despite her temper Yang would've been the next best choice for a team leader. Weiss definitely was not a people person at that point and Blake was more likely to run if things got too pressured. It's really hard to say actually, each member of RWBY have their faults but also their strengths. If Oz really did have a Dumbledore level of seeing the best in people I could see him making Blake as a team lead too. He probably knew she had a leadership quality and ability to motivate in her.

It'd be interesting to see how a Yang-led RWBY would have fared with a lot of the crazy stuff that happens.

Zam · May 13, 2020

ElMariachi said:
The practicality of Yang's weapons could also be interpreted as a show of maturity contrasting Ruby's: Ruby still being a teenager, she go for the Rule of Cool flashy and exaggerated weapon, while Yang, being more level-headed, made a weapon that at the same time complements her fighting style and can easily pass as innocuous (if flashy) jewelry, which is very practical when you regularly have to visit shady places in the search of a disappeared relative.

An excellent insight, I am a big fan of this take personally

Also reminds me of another take I recall which was Yang's fighting style wouldn't change much if she lost her weapons, in essence her fighting style is nto built around her Semblance or weapon like many other characters tends to be which is neat.

ElMariachi said:
Ruby telling that she built her weapon herself gave me the impression that it was something uncommon, so I wonder if most hunters actually only design their weapons, and it's then a blacksmith's job to make that design real, but Ruby designed and built her weapon from scratch.

Given the way she phrased it and how Signal works, I got the impression she felt the idea of not personally designing one's weapon was the weird thing.

LordDarthYoda said:
I've always felt that despite her temper Yang would've been the next best choice for a team leader. Weiss definitely was not a people person at that point and Blake was more likely to run if things got too pressured. It's really hard to say actually, each member of RWBY have their faults but also their strengths. If Oz really did have a Dumbledore level of seeing the best in people I could see him making Blake as a team lead too. He probably knew she had a leadership quality and ability to motivate in her.

A fair take, I never really jived with the 'Yang has a temper' thing in the way Tai seemed to frame it but that's another matter. But yeah Weiss was too controlling and abrasive at first, Blake I think could be good but that she'd have a lot of internal issues to overcome and due to her experience with Adam sorta defaulted to Yang in the Emerald Forest. So yeah I think Yang has the makings of a solid potential leader, I am unsure she'd enjoy such a position, but I think she'd take it quite seriously if amicably and be good at handling internal conflicts better than Ruby was.

Pugman · May 13, 2020

Yang would not be fond of it, but she'd do it if she had to.

As for her temper, that is the fault of writing and pacing during the beacon arc.
He hair was touched twice (Junior and an Ursa), she kinda snapped at the shenanigans at the ruins where the chess pieces are ("Can we all just calm down before something crazy happens?!" or something like that), she was losing her cool during her fight with Neo, she lost her temper during the doubles fight, then you had the fight with Mercury and then her blind charge at Adam.
What Tai said was true, just not shown as well as it could of been.

Basically this phrase sums up RWBY up to this point
"Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda"

Zam · May 13, 2020

Pugman said:
Yang would not be fond of it, but she'd do it if she had to.

As for her temper, that is the fault of writing and pacing during the beacon arc.
He hair was touched twice (Junior and an Ursa), she kinda snapped at the shenanigans at the ruins where the chess pieces are ("Can we all just calm down before something crazy happens?!" or something like that), she was losing her cool during her fight with Neo, she lost her temper during the doubles fight, then you had the fight with Mercury and then her blind charge at Adam.
What Tai said was true, just not shown as well as it could of been.

Basically this phrase sums up RWBY up to this point
"Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda"

Pretty much my take yeah, I often like the read that Yang was in part looking forward to Beacon because she'd not need to be in substitute parent and or caretaker mode, only for Ruby yo come and shift her right back into it and she's happy sand proud but also kinda like "I just wanted to be careless for a bit" in the back of her head. Leadership would only add to that.

(waves hand) I don't really agree and have some rather detailed reasons for feeling that way, but anytime this subject has been discussed in-depth it leads to a thread lock so I'll leave it at that XD

GreatWyrmGold · May 13, 2020

Zam said:
So while I agree Weiss's arc could have been more developed (Though I rationalize it as her projecting her issues with her dad onto the WF) I find the suggestion there is no character driven drama rather... confusing and a little insulting. Like what was Blake's entire post Beacon [emphasis mine] arc if not character driven drama? -snip of similar points-

I think I've mentioned this before, but I stopped watching RWBY mabe halfway through Volume 3 and have only skimmed the wiki and watched the occasional review since. So all I can say is "I've heard people say it was handled stupidly" or "Wish that was there earlier".

Pugman said:
like, Yang not hanging out with Ruby at the start of their time in Beacon is basically Yang trying to get Ruby to open up and meet new people and make new friends instead of letting her cling to the familiarity that was Yang.

And even if it wasn't that...moms are allowed to have lives outside the kids they're raising. Especially when those kids are, technically speaking, their little sister.

I might be biased, since I'm an elder sibling who tried to avoid his younger sibling, but...that doesn't even register as anything. It's not a sin or something that needs to be justified. It's Yang doing a thing, instead of doing another thing. It would be cool if she wanted to hang out with her sister, it's cool that she didn't. Kinda sad that we literally never see Yang's Signal friends again, but hey, I guess that just means she can hang out with her sister more.

Zam · May 13, 2020

GreatWyrmGold said:
I think I've mentioned this before, but I stopped watching RWBY mabe halfway through Volume 3 and have only skimmed the wiki and watched the occasional review since. So all I can say is "I've heard people say it was handled stupidly" or "Wish that was there earlier".

.... So let me get this straight. You are complaining that the show doesn't have character centric drama or development and throws in fight scenes willy nilly... Despite having not actually watched what you are talking about?

Is that accurate?

Also ignoring Ruby's early arc, Blake and Weiss's drama, Yang and Blake's heartfelt chat, the fire-side conversation, the Penny reveal,you get the idea.

GreatWyrmGold · May 13, 2020

Zam said:
.... So let me get this straight. You are complaining that the show doesn't have character centric drama or development and throws in fight scenes willy nilly... Despite having not actually watched what you are talking about?

Is that accurate?

Also ignoring Ruby's early arc, Blake and Weiss's drama, Yang and Blake's heartfelt chat, the fire-side conversation, the Penny reveal,you get the idea.

Alright, first off, I watched the show, and watched some reviews that suggested that nothing substantial had changed. Which remains my impression, since the only people telling me otherwise are...well...people with your level of reading comprehension. On that note, I never said the show had literally zero character drama. I instead said that Volume 1 had some, and I was disappointed by Volume 2 and 3. The conclusion to be reached is not that I think RWBY has zero character drama, but insufficient and/or bad character drama. Which I do. Those things you list were attempts at character drama, but they were all kinda rushed and didn't have much impact. (Remember how my big complaint about the Weiss/Blake thing at the end of Volume 1 was the lack of follow-up?)

Zam · May 13, 2020

GreatWyrmGold said:
Alright, first off, I watched the show, and watched some reviews that suggested that nothing substantial had changed. Which remains my impression, since the only people telling me otherwise are...well...people with your level of reading comprehension. On that note, I never said the show had literally zero character drama. I instead said that Volume 1 had some, and I was disappointed by Volume 2 and 3. The conclusion to be reached is not that I think RWBY has zero character drama, but insufficient and/or bad character drama. Which I do. Those things you list were attempts at character drama, but they were all kinda rushed and didn't have much impact. (Remember how my big complaint about the Weiss/Blake thing at the end of Volume 1 was the lack of follow-up?)

No you watched part of the show, you're literally missing four volumes, of which you are complaining about based on review, and given the quality of RWBY reviews, well let's just say I don't take that seriously at all.

You do grasp insulting me doesn't compensate for the lack of an argument yes?

So even ignoring that I disagree with you as I think V2 and 3's character drama was better written and more pervasive than the brief V1 arcs, I am left with a question.

Why are you here? You dislike the show and don't even watch it, why are you here talking about it as though you A, have any kind of authority on it when you don't have any idea what happens, and B, what even motivates your presence here when you could be engaging with a fandom and series you have legitimate investment in?

ShadowEMT · May 14, 2020

LordDarthYoda said:
I've always felt that despite her temper Yang would've been the next best choice for a team leader. Weiss definitely was not a people person at that point and Blake was more likely to run if things got too pressured. It's really hard to say actually, each member of RWBY have their faults but also their strengths. If Oz really did have a Dumbledore level of seeing the best in people I could see him making Blake as a team lead too. He probably knew she had a leadership quality and ability to motivate in her.

Ruby is the leader because she is the one that that needed the least character development to become a effective leader, as she only needed to take the situation more seriously that had at the beginning.

Weiss was too self centered and saw her team as an extension of herself, getting over those problems was her season one Arc, if she had been made the leader before season 2 I don't think that it would had that development.

Like Weiss Blake is also too self centered to be the leader, but in the other way, Blake believed herself to be the source of all the misfortune of everyone around her and that she needed to be the one that fixes everyone's issues as a way to atone for that, and it isn't until she kills Adam, the source and incarnation of those toxic feelings, that she is able to move past that, if she had been the leader before dealing with that she would have been a fairly decent leader until something went bad at which point she would entered a self destructive spiral similar to the one that she was is season 2, but now I doubt that Yang would have the necessary closeness to pull her back for one simple reason, Yang is the person that Adam pretended to be, a season one Blake would probably get stuck trying to keep her from becoming the actual Adam, most likely smothering their relationship in the crib.

Yang is the only one that hasn't actually confronted the thing that makes her unable to be the team leader, you see, Yang cares about her team, a lot, and she is perfectly willing to drop anything to help their teammates and friends, traits that she shares with Ruby, but she lacks two of the traits that Ruby has that actually makes the first trait into a problem, first she lacks Ruby's unshakable confidence in her friends ability to succeed and second she doesn't care about everyone as much as Ruby, as we saw with the Apathy when at her lowest Yang was the one who suggested abandoning their mission to protect themselves, and it will probably come up again, either Blake and/or Ruby will be in danger and in the heat of the moment Yang will abandon the people that she is protecting to protect them.

Zam · May 14, 2020

ShadowEMT said:
Ruby is the leader because she is the one that that needed the least character development to become a effective leader, as she only needed to take the situation more seriously that had at the beginning.

I found your post quite interesting, the Ruby point was neat and the Blake perspective that she'd have been decent as leader but once things went wrong would become self destructive was especially insightful and lines up well with her trauma and how it impacts her and with the fact once she had started confronting and overcoming it, she began being not just a more active hero, but even a leader in her own right.

ShadowEMT said:
Yang is the only one that hasn't actually confronted the thing that makes her unable to be the team leader, you see, Yang cares about her team, a lot, and she is perfectly willing to drop anything to help their teammates and friends, traits that she shares with Ruby, but she lacks two of the traits that Ruby has that actually makes the first trait into a problem, first she lacks Ruby's unshakable confidence in her friends ability to succeed and second she doesn't care about everyone as much as Ruby, as we saw with the Apathy when at her lowest Yang was the one who suggested abandoning their mission to protect themselves, and it will probably come up again, either Blake and/or Ruby will be in danger and in the heat of the moment Yang will abandon the people that she is protecting to protect them.

This one, I think started out strong, but I can't say I agree with your apathy arc point. Blake, Weiss and Yang were on board with ditching the lamp, Yang may have suggested it but they were all on the same page, and what's more, how one behaves under the apathy isn't exactly reflective of one's true self. Plus we've seen Yang in situations where her friends are helpless or in danger and when she could suggest they run she is instead on board to protect people, namely the groups response to the Mega Grimm at Argus. Plus, while I can't say for sure about Ruby or Weiss, Blake & Yang's relationship is rooted now in their shared and mutual respect and faith in one another, so I don't feel Yang would go racing off and leaving innocents in danger to protect Blake due to a lack of faith in her abilities.

Psyga315 · May 15, 2020

New video review by Twins Iink is out. TL;DW: She did not like this episode one bit. Mercury's scene felt like clunky exposition and trailer for the next Volume, the statue scene felt like emotional manipulation with the mysterious red-haired woman not helping matters, and Ruby's "kids rule, adults drool" speech is made even more stupid when she counted the times an adult has saved or improved the situation whereas the kids made things 10 times worse.

Times the Adults saved the Kids

Glynda saves Ruby (and by extension, causes the chain of events that brings her into Beacon)
Raven saves Yang
Qrow saves RNJR
Ghira saves Ilia (and thus solidifies her turn to the side of good and, by extension, turned the tide of battle against the White Fang)
Maria giving Ruby the life-saving advice on using Silver Eyes

Times the Kids f'd up by doing things their way

The Mountain Glenn incident
Yang losing her arm
Jaune attacking Cinder and resulting in starting the Battle of Haven, leading to Weiss's near-death
Pyrrha's suicidal charge at Cinder.

Marco · May 15, 2020

Psyga315 said:
New video review by Twins Iink is out. TL;DW: She did not like this episode one bit. Mercury's scene felt like clunky exposition and trailer for the next Volume, the statue scene felt like emotional manipulation with the mysterious red-haired woman not helping matters, and Ruby's "kids rule, adults drool" speech is made even more stupid when she counted the times an adult has saved or improved the situation whereas the kids made things 10 times worse.

Times the Adults saved the Kids

Glynda saves Ruby (and by extension, causes the chain of events that brings her into Beacon)

Raven saves Yang

Qrow saves RNJR

Ghira saves Ilia (and thus solidifies her turn to the side of good and, by extension, turned the tide of battle against the White Fang)

Maria giving Ruby the life-saving advice on using Silver Eyes

Times the Kids f'd up by doing things their way

The Mountain Glenn incident

Yang losing her arm

Jaune attacking Cinder and resulting in starting the Battle of Haven, leading to Weiss's near-death

Pyrrha's suicidal charge at Cinder.

Unfortunately, this is another review where the author mistakes critique for being a jerk, and what flaws they are able to raise as legitimate points are ultimately lost or diminished in the process of trying so hard to find fault or issue where they probably should have focused elsewhere or taken a step back for a moment.

I can pretty much pinpoint where the author of the video should have taken a step back and breathed, which was at the 14:20 mark. It very quickly devolves into clumsy ranting after that. Pointing out there were times when RWBY was saved by adults or made mistakes doesn't actually disprove the point trying to be made, brushing off that Qrow is drunk misses the issue and if you think the message of that speech was "adults suck, kids rule" you didn't understand the message.

Sunder the Gold · May 15, 2020

ElMariachi said:
The practicality of Yang's weapons could also be interpreted as a show of maturity contrasting Ruby's: Ruby still being a teenager, she go for the Rule of Cool flashy and exaggerated weapon, while Yang, being more level-headed, made a weapon that at the same time complements her fighting style and can easily pass as innocuous (if flashy) jewelry, which is very practical when you regularly have to visit shady places in the search of a disappeared relative.

There's some truth to this, but I think you're overlooking something.

Can you remember what Crescent Rose looks like when Ruby isn't using it? It folds and collapses all the way down to a small carbine rifle.

It's amazingly convenient! So small that she can store it behind her back, where it doesn't hinder her arms at all (even when she's sprinting), and where its small size makes it easily concealed by her ever-present cloak.

It's also the ideal shape for a quick-draw, since its small size allows her to handle it with just one hand, if necessary, and allows her to use it in extremely tight, close quarters.

It's next form is an extending shoulder stock, which barely increases the size but greatly increases her potential accuracy and her control of the recoil.

Crescent Rose is poetry in metal.

Ruby telling that she built her weapon herself gave me the impression that it was something uncommon, so I wonder if most hunters actually only design their weapons, and it's then a blacksmith's job to make that design real, but Ruby designed and built her weapon from scratch.

I wondered the same thing, but @Zam rightly pointed out that Ruby said Signal students FORGE their own weapons.

But I'm sure that they're supervised by the professors, who also help out students whose vision exceeds their skills. But the professors likely don't help the students build weapons that the students cannot later maintain themselves, unless they know the student can afford to outsource maintenance to professionals after they graduate.

So, Ruby and Yang's shop-class teachers might have taught them what they needed to know to design, build, and maintain their weapons, and supervised them during the most dangerous parts of the manufacturing process, but by the time the sisters finished those courses, they should be the masters of their weapons in every regard. A Signal student might not graduate knowing how to build or repair anything else, but they can at least maintain or replace their own chosen weapon.

For the motorbike, maybe it's simply because Yang was the only one who could get a license to drive? Ruby is underage at the beginning of the story, I'm ready to bet that Jacques wouldn't let one of his children have a mean to move around freely, and Blake was trying to hide, so trying to get a license would be a risky move. (although enlisting in Beacon is also risky when you're trying to lay low)

Headcanon accepted.

That view makes even less sense when you look at the Red trailer which gave everyone the impression that Ruby would be the dark brooding and taciturn gothic heroine à la Cloud Strife, then the series proper was released and revealed that she's actually the textbook definition of a Genki Girl and no one made a fuss about it.

I still remember being weirded out to hear Ruby speak, and how she spoke, in the Yellow Trailer.

But I wasn't really bothered, either.

Zam said:
Also reminds me of another take I recall which was Yang's fighting style wouldn't change much if she lost her weapons, in essence her fighting style is nto built around her Semblance or weapon like many other characters tends to be which is neat.

I'll agree her weapon is built around her fighting style, but I'm fairly sure her fighting style is built around her Semblance.

Hand-held weapons are more popular than bare hands for a reason; they're just more practical. They inflict greater damage and allow for better self-defense. Without a Semblance that rewards fighting unarmed, there's no good reason to specialize in doing so.

Now, the kinds of Semblance that reward it are highly varied. Yang's is one, but Harriet Bree's super-speed is another. But I'll talk about Harriet later.

A fair take, I never really jived with the 'Yang has a temper' thing in the way Tai seemed to frame it

"How is relying on my Semblance different from someone else doing the same?"

"Because not everyone else's is basically a temper tantrum."

There's a truth there that got overlooked because of the way Tai phrased it. Yang's Semblance IS crucially different from everyone else's.

Everyone else can use their Semblance without getting hit. Without first being hurt.

Yang's Semblance can only work after she takes a meaningful hit, so Yang always has to struggle against pain, and the instinctive reaction to lash out, in order to use her Semblance wisely. It's risky and demanding in a way that other Semblances aren't, so she has to be stronger and more controlled than most, even when the situation would drive anyone to lose control.

But, as Tai also said, "It's a great fall-back", especially when she out-thinks her opponent like she did in her rematch with Adam.

"Gotcha."

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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