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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    living, thinking semi-divine Wikipedia who can and will answer 3 questions every 100 years.
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    And like Wikipedia, the quality and breadth of your answer can vary drastically.
    Zam said:
    I'm unsure if Qrow himself was involved in its creation
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    Considering how Ruby said she went 'overboard' on it, I'd imagine that she was at very least the primary designer and builder.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    I honestly don't understand how anyone could still think Yang is a dumb party girl. Sure she gave off that impression but in Volume 2, maybe even earlier, it became pretty clear that to a certain extent was an act. cause for most of her life until Beacon she basically had to be a parent for Ruby, early on basically Ruby's only parental figure besides maybe Qrow. Yang never got a chance to really just not care about things. But at Beacon Ruby's in charge of the team so why should she worry?

    Volumes 4-6 showed the much smarter and serious side of Yang. Being the first to raise questions not let herself get too drasticated by sillness depending on the situation. She was also plenty angry but justifiably so. She relaxed a good deal for most of Volume 7, because she didn't need to be serious. Routine had set in once more and she could focus on other things, like Blake.
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    Nothing at all even suggests that Yang is a dumb party girl except for presumptions based on her looks and the way she acts. Even in her trailer she doesn't go to the club just to fuck around. She's actively searching for a person of interest.

    Honestly if not for the poor execution of the show in general, I would argue that Yang is easily the most 3-dimensional character in the entire work.
     
    For headcanoning and engineering/mechanics. The way I usually feel is that Ruby is passionate about building weapons and also good at it. Yang's good at working with machines, but it's just something that she does because she had to. Kinda of like all of the other random skills that I assume she picked up while taking care of both Ruby and depressed Tai.

    The car has a weird noise coming from the engine? Someone needs to check on it, along with performing all of the basic maintenance that Ruby's too small to know about and Tai's likely to let slip.
    The sink's leaky? Same thing.
    Chair breaks? It's not too hard to fix it or make a new one.
    Cooking dinner? It's not going to be great, but it'll be edible.

    There a whole host of skills that someone can pick up without anyone noticing and it going uncommented on, even internally.
     
    RoyalNoises said:
    Because we are told that everybody builds their own weapons, which implies that they must be engineering geniuses. Rather than RWBY technology just being so flexible that it allows idiot high schoolers to make impossible origami combi-weapons that the best engineers in real life could never manage to make, let alone make effective, because it's a fantasy show where the origins of things are not particularly important with regards to characterization.

    RWBY fans will invent literally any nonsense to try and justify their love of these cardboard cut outs. Yang is not a fucking mechanical genius, because she's not written as one. Some fans inferred something from something the writers didn't think about at all and then spun a tale that made her smarter than she is. Just admit that you like stupid girls. It's fine. They need love too.



    Unironically yes.
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    While I agree that some slice of life would help them expand and strengthen RWBY's characters, this point is ultimately undermined by all the other stuff you say.

    Nonsense would imply they got this out of nowhere, but they don't do that. They infer from the comparison of Yang's weapons to other characters and direct occurrences in the show - where everyone else had to call their weapons, Yang already had hers ready. That does show a degree of practicality or forward-thinking that other characters didn't have and is very much a "show" moment. We can also look toward Yang being the only member of team RWBY who brought a personal mode of transportation with her motorbike, everyone else either had to rely on someone else or walk. It wouldn't be nonsense to suggest she was confident enough in her ability to maintain a vehicle where others didn't seem to be.

    We can draw a conclusion from these occurrences without necessarily needing a scene dedicated to spelling it out. Now I do believe this would help RWBY with certain aspects and characters if only to remove any uncertainty, but this is not the only way to do things, nor always the right way depending on the circumstances. While you might point to what DBZ did with Yamcha, it's worth noting that those episodes were filler, literally padding out the runtime for lack of main story rather than something done with the sole goal of expanding the character themselves.

    Now we can certainly make the case that the label of genius is an exaggeration, but the underlying core - that this character has some intelligence, is a sound and reasonable conclusion. She certainly isn't, as you say a "stupid girl", though some characters might try to treat her that way at times due to her nature of being blonde and "top-heavy", but its a rather shallow reading of the character to say she certainly is.
     
    Zam said:
    Jinn Has Agency
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    So because she didn't want to have the holder of the lamp get nommed by a Grimm and thus be lost in the belly of what is practically one of Satan's many pets, she has agency?

    That's like saying the shopkeeper has agency because he didn't scold Ruby for picking a fight with robbers that were robbing his shop.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    So because she didn't want to have the holder of the lamp get nommed by a Grimm and thus be lost in the belly of what is practically one of Satan's many pets, she has agency?

    That's like saying the shopkeeper has agency because he didn't scold Ruby for picking a fight with robbers that were robbing his shop.
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    Yes? Like, being able to decide on your own to act or not to act is basically the definition of having agency.
     
    Tython82 said:
    But she did warn Ruby that this was a one time gig and the next time she tried to pull it, it would not work so while she can bend her rules she can only go so far.
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    Seeing as she called Ruby clever for thinking of it, I'm under the impression she was specifically rewarding Ruby for quick thinking and saying that it's still only a one time deal.

    She doesn't need to come out if her name is called reasonlessly*, she can chose to if she wishes, and she can provide information without being prompted if she desires. That sounds like it fits the bill to me.

    *reasonlessly within the context of what she was created for. Ruby clearly had a reason just not one Jinn had to answer.
     
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    I finally stopped putting it off and binged volume 7 yesterday. I'd lost interest in the show a few seasons ago, and I kind of felt like I was watching out of an obligation to finish the show instead of actively enjoying it. I was quite pleasantly surprised with how good Volume 7 was though and really enjoyed it.
     
    neutronium95 said:
    I finally stopped putting it off and binged volume 7 yesterday. I'd lost interest in the show a few seasons ago, and I kind of felt like I was watching out of an obligation to finish the show instead of actively enjoying it. I was quite pleasantly surprised with how good Volume 7 was though and really enjoyed it.
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    Was there a particular part you enjoyed?
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Beyond that I always have to ask when people complain about RWBY "rushing", would the show be better if there was a scene where the characters just sat on a workbench building a weapon?
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    I probably would have stayed with Volume 3 longer if it had replaced some of the empty Vytal Festival fight scenes with a scene of Ruby and, say, Jaune or Yang in the workshop, chatting about nothing plot-relevant. But then, I only stuck with the series as long as I did because Volume 1 got me invested in the characters, so scenes of characters being themselves and interacting with each other, showing how far they've come and how far they have to go, are really appealing to me.


    Teen Spirit said:
    I honestly don't understand how anyone could still think Yang is a dumb party girl. Sure she gave off that impression...
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    This might just be me not having seen the show in years, but...when? The mature aspects of Yang's character (whether as a warrior or a mother) always overpowered her moments of immaturity. I absolutely think the writers were trying to make a character who looked like a dumb party girl but hinted at her true character from the start, but I don't see how anyone could look at her (even in the first Volume or two) and see that dumb party girl.
    Unless they tune out everything that isn't a fight scene or shipping fodder, but I'd like to think that isn't a common attitude among RWBY's fandom.
     
    GreatWyrmGold said:
    This might just be me not having seen the show in years, but...when? The mature aspects of Yang's character (whether as a warrior or a mother) always overpowered her moments of immaturity. I absolutely think the writers were trying to make a character who looked like a dumb party girl but hinted at her true character from the start, but I don't see how anyone could look at her (even in the first Volume or two) and see that dumb party girl.
    Unless they tune out everything that isn't a fight scene or shipping fodder, but I'd like to think that isn't a common attitude among RWBY's fandom.
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    RWBY's fandom has issues. Most of it's good, some of it's very insightful. A good chunk of it though can be summarized by this



    There are some people who first thought of Yang as a nothing more than "I'm the Yang, let's fight!" and they refuse to let that image go even though it was something that never really held up.
     
    Honestly, the discourse of this show is hurt a great deal by people holding the trailers up as some gospel that any deviation from is malfeasance on the part of the writers. Even if you hold that they're 100% totally canon, shit changes in stories all the time. Sometimes writers decide to take characters in different directions. When people decide that a six-minute trailer from nearly a decade ago is not only the truest form of that character it makes them seem silly. Especially when the things they take away from that trailer are just in their head.
     
    Not sure I'd call RWBY's characters well-developed, but maybe I'm just salty that they brushed through so much potentially character development in late Volume 1/Volume 2. Weiss's is the worst; I thought her part in the finale was setting up a character arc of Weiss dealing with her ingrained prejudices and stuff, but no, it was the whole arc.


    VolantRedX said:
    Honestly, the discourse of this show is hurt a great deal by people holding the trailers up as some gospel that any deviation from is malfeasance on the part of the writers.
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    Not related to what you were actually saying, but this rings true with my own experience. When Volumes 2 and 3 shifted the focus away from character and towards action, most of the people in the fandom I talked to seemed confused. "This is what RWBY always was supposed to be, didn't you see the trailers? The character shit in Volume 1 was just setting the stage for all of this." Well, I found the stage-setting more compelling than the fight scenes taking place on that stage, and was hence disappointed by the later Volumes.

    Ugh, I'm just complaining again. I need to stop doing that.
     
    GreatWyrmGold said:
    Not sure I'd call RWBY's characters well-developed, but maybe I'm just salty that they brushed through so much potentially character development in late Volume 1/Volume 2. Weiss's is the worst; I thought her part in the finale was setting up a character arc of Weiss dealing with her ingrained prejudices and stuff, but no, it was the whole arc.



    Not related to what you were actually saying, but this rings true with my own experience. When Volumes 2 and 3 shifted the focus away from character and towards action, most of the people in the fandom I talked to seemed confused. "This is what RWBY always was supposed to be, didn't you see the trailers? The character shit in Volume 1 was just setting the stage for all of this." Well, I found the stage-setting more compelling than the fight scenes taking place on that stage, and was hence disappointed by the later Volumes.

    Ugh, I'm just complaining again. I need to stop doing that.
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    I mean I think a lot of people had very different ideas about what the show was going to be. I'm amazed to this day that people thought the whole show was just going to be following team RWBY as they tooled around school for year after year getting into misadventures between class. Personally, that sounds like a terrible show and I don't understand why people would want to watch that.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean I think a lot of people had very different ideas about what the show was going to be. I'm amazed to this day that people thought the whole show was just going to be following team RWBY as they tooled around school for year after year getting into misadventures between class. Personally, that sounds like a terrible show and I don't understand why people would want to watch that.
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    School settings can be fun. There are a lot of shows with school settings that people like.
     
    I'm still bemused that people don't believe me when I say that Yang was "wearing a mask" when she arrived to help Blake with Adam, back with her infamous "don't give a shit" look.
     
    I mean, I don't have much to say, but this.

    A trailer...is a trailer. It only meant to tell you only so much and give you a feeling of 'I what to see that, I think I like it.' I know trailers today are infamous for giving away so much, or being misleading. But that's something else.

    I don't understand why people are so tie up around stuff like the Color trailers. I don't get why people seem to what Yang to be the said 'dumb party girl' and just forgo anything else to her character, before, during, or after.

    I have my headcannon for many things. I enjoy them, and thinking of more. But I don't go on rants about it. And even when I do, I try to have a nice discussion, not rants.
     
    Gh055twr1t3r said:
    School settings can be fun. There are a lot of shows with school settings that people like.
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    I guess like I said it's just a personal opinion I just never liked that whole "attend school, save the world after class" plot set up. It just seems silly.

    Psyga315 said:
    They were so fun in fact that when Japan found out RWBY wasn't doing a school setting no more, they dropped dubs for Volumes past 4.
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    Part of that is because Japan has a weird fixation on having the characters go to school all the time. It's got to be the most common set up in anime.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Part of that is because Japan has a weird fixation on having the characters go to school all the time.
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    Don't quote me on this but I recall it being something related to how they see 'high school' as the pinnacle of youthful freedom etc before the responsibilies of adulthood take hold and so on. I could be misremembering though.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    They were so fun in fact that when Japan found out RWBY wasn't doing a school setting no more, they dropped dubs for Volumes past 4.
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    I thought they just dropped the dubs appearing on TV. And it still has manga adaptions so it's not like Japan just completely dropped the show.

    And yeah that honestly just feels like a cultural difference because, at least to me, one of the show's strengths is it's ability to adapt and change.
     
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