RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

kokuenDG · May 1, 2022

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

skaianDestiny · Jul 22, 2015

ElMariachi said:
My two cents, but I get the feeling that Jaune kind of get a pass for his borderline stalking of Weiss because it was made clear that he's a good guy who will never go too far, and that in the case that he does step out of the line (in which case it will probably be unintentionally) Weiss have the strength and willingness to put him back in his place.

Someone can be a "good guy" and be extremely skeevey in regards to women they're attracted to.

No means no.

Spectrum · Jul 22, 2015

skaianDestiny said:
Someone can be a "good guy" and be extremely skeevey in regards to women they're attracted to.

No means no.

And for bonus points, tell that to all the fics where Jaune gets a few tips or whatever and suddenly can beat Weiss in a duel and look how awesome he is now guys.

*twitch*

Zam · Jul 22, 2015

Spectrum said:
And for bonus points, tell that to all the fics where Jaune gets a few tips or whatever and suddenly can beat Weiss in a duel and look how awesome he is now guys.

*twitch*

I- wait- what... I can intellectually, based on experience, grasp that these are a think but still, raaaaah! Why is this a thing!?

Also why target Weiss? Seriously at least Carding deserves it and it kind of a coward. I can already guess why "how could she turn him down, she's so awful, now she'll want him" mye mye mye.

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

I never got how people can connect with Jaune, like on a personal level what about him are people connecting to?

Renu · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
I never got how people can connect with Jaune, like on a personal level what about him are people connecting to?

I'm airsick.

TheBleachDoctor · Jul 22, 2015

I wonder if Blake purrs.

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

Renu said:
I'm airsick.

Well, that is something at least. Are you a loveable oaf with a secret stalker who throws spears at you so you can't escape?

TheBleachDoctor said:
I wonder if Blake purrs.

Oh my

TheBleachDoctor · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
Oh my

Kitty

Leingod · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
I never got how people can connect with Jaune, like on a personal level what about him are people connecting to?

Maybe it's his strong desire to be a hero and be someone cool despite being a doofy loser with no training or experience, but still makes it and takes some levels in badass and also has a super-hot, kind, caring girl madly in love with him?

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

TheBleachDoctor said:
Kitty

Make kitty purr?

Leingod said:
Maybe it's his strong desire to be a hero and be someone cool despite being a doofy loser with no training or experience, but still makes it and takes some levels in badass and also has a super-hot, kind, caring girl madly in love with him?

but... that... If you imagine yourself as a complete failure with no friends way over his head and needing a magical stalker to show up and make your life better how is your self esteem in real life? Is this the target demographic?

azoicennead · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
but... that... If you imagine yourself as a complete failure with no friends way over his head and needing a magical stalker to show up and make your life better how is your self esteem in real life? Is this the target demographic?

An unfortunately large number of people I know see themselves as failures in over their heads, yes. The current generation of young adults in the U.S. isn't exactly the happiest, or facing very reasonable standards.

TheBleachDoctor · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
Make kitty purr?

Voikirium · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
I never got how people can connect with Jaune, like on a personal level what about him are people connecting to?

Because I've been where he is. I've been the fuck up, I've been the moron trying to do right, I've known that pain, I know how it is to not gel with your family even thoug you love them to bits. I've been there, done that, and got the T-Shirt.

MinorGryph · Jul 22, 2015

Jaune is a weird one. I don't hate him, but I hate how much screen time he got in comparison to the rest of the cast, which caused him to act as a plot tumor. His first character arc wasn't a terrible premise, it was actually pretty unique imo; unfortunately it was dressed in generic school-bullying trappings. On top of that, they felt really contrived- the hell Cardin was so conveniently placed as to overhear Jaune's secret! And are you seriously expecting me to believe Nora, Pyrrha, and Ren didn't go beat the shit out of Cardin the first time he tried this? His entire team ran away from a single Ursa, CRDL are the ones who should be getting bullied for weakness not Jaune or Velvet! That second arc was pure awful though. I watch RWBY for the epic fights, not prom.

I rewatched the Emerald forest episodes, and noticed that Jaune actually does contribute a fair amount in the fight against the Deathstalker. All the buttmonkeying and fanwank drove it from my mind, but he isn't that far behind the other members of JNPR- he manages to block the Deathstalker's massive claws several times in a row before they start throwing him on his ass, and did a good job directing his soon-to-be team mates after noticing the stinger. I feel like the way RT resolved the bullying arc (Ursa attack) was a disservice and made Jaune seem incompetent, he'd never had a problem fighting Grimm so it didn't really make sense as a character development moment when he stood up to it. Same with the S2 finale fight, where he takes advantage of none of his tactical skills and kills one Ursa... DRAMATICALLY!

ElMariachi · Jul 22, 2015

Zam said:
While I can follow your rationale I can't really agree if only because his constant refusal of the word no tells me he didn't quit when he should have. Plus, remember their meeting in the locker room, he immediately invaded her personal space, clearly disturbing and worrying Weiss and kept pushing until Pyrrha skewered him.

Well as I said, that was just my opinion, let's see what season 3 has in stock with him, personally I hope that if there's some focus on him, it'll be on his job as team leader and his relationship with the rest of team JNPR, especially what's the deal with that village Jaune and Ren mentioned in the season 2 finale.

Zam said:
To be fair Sun could buddy up with Yang over the law one XD I like your logic here, but I feel Sun at least is pretty much angling for a relationship and while I like his character and attitude well enough, eh, honestly it always feels like just pairing up the Faunus because they're Faunus, sort of like the RWBY equivalent of pairing the first two dwarven adventurers seen together.

Yeah, it's clear that Sun wouldn't mind a relationship upgrade with Blake, but at the same time I can also see him accepting it without problems if Blake says that she's simply not interested. In any case so far Blake is too busy with that White Fang business to envision more than having some fun with someone else, and certainly not a romantic relationship.
Also, like you, I don't like the prospect that everyone gets paired with someone else and that Sun and Blake becomes a thing simply because they're both Faunus.

Spectrum said:
And for bonus points, tell that to all the fics where Jaune gets a few tips or whatever and suddenly can beat Weiss in a duel and look how awesome he is now guys.

*twitch*

At least, that's something that will certainly never happens in the series proper, be it with Weiss, Pyrrha or anyone else: unless his unknown Semblance is some bullshit of King Crimson level, the girls simply have too much experience for him to get to their level, at least not before several in-universe years.

Azecreth · Jul 22, 2015

MinorGryph said:
Same with the S2 finale fight, where he takes advantage of none of his tactical skills and kills one Ursa... DRAMATICALLY!

To be honest, I expected them to cut away from that to show that the Ursa was pretty much untouched, given that how it was framed made it look like he was waving his sword like an idiot, which by all rights shouldn't have worked. But then again, there were quite a few things about the S2 finale that were less than stellar.

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

Voikirium said:
Because I've been where he is. I've been the fuck up, I've been the moron trying to do right, I've known that pain, I know how it is to not gel with your family even thoug you love them to bits. I've been there, done that, and got the T-Shirt.

Isn't there a bit of a difference between being a fuck up trying to do right and well, Jaune? I mean he seems to be the lovable oaf type who cannot really do much if anything right. I find him a mildly amusing distraction from people like well, everyone else. I mean even team CRDL,

Keeping in mind through the whole fight Pyrrha is using her semblance to affect her enemies and likely herself and her equipment these guys are crazy good, sure there is the scene later on with the Ursa but it feels like pandering to make Jaune feel good about himself and you feel good for Jaune. Team JNPR is Nora, Ren, and Pyrrha, three high speed hard hitting badasses, and Jaune, the lovable oaf.

ElMariachi · Jul 22, 2015

For me it's more that Jaune is supposed to be more of a tactician than a warrior: he can hold his own against a Grimm or two, but where he shines best is when devising strategies to defeat the enemy, and the rest of his team are the ones doing the heavy lifting.
At best, if his Semblance is healing or barriers like many theorized, I can see him having a support role, but clearly he's not meant to be a frontline fighter.

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

ElMariachi said:
For me it's more that Jaune is supposed to be more of a tactician than a warrior: he can hold his own against a Grimm or two, but where he shines best is when devising strategies to defeat the enemy, and the rest of his team are the ones doing the heavy lifting.
At best, if his Semblance is healing or barriers like many theorized, I can see him having a support role, but clearly he's not meant to be a frontline fighter.

See, i disagree completely, for one he is not very bright. Another is he wants to protect people so I think he is more of a defender type, he is there to take hits for others and survive on his endurance and refusal to go down.

In the end he teams up with Cardin and they realize their repressed emotions for each understanding that Cardin only bullied him because he did not know how to properly express the emotions he felt while Jaune really went along with it because secretly, deep down, he liked it.

Zam · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
I never got how people can connect with Jaune, like on a personal level what about him are people connecting to?

I have some theories but I don't want to paint everyone who likes him with the same brush as that would be unrealistic and unfair.

But for a lot of people he's a convenient projection tool for themselves or they themselves share traits with him.

TheBleachDoctor said:
I wonder if Blake purrs.

There are a lot of ways this question could go.

Conundrum said:
but... that... If you imagine yourself as a complete failure with no friends way over his head and needing a magical stalker to show up and make your life better how is your self esteem in real life? Is this the target demographic?

That's why so many of his fans make him a super "baddass". A friend of mine noted how much they dislike the audience surrogate characters portrayed like Jaune as he said they are basically saying "this is you, you hopeless nerds!" to the audience.

MinorGryph said:
I feel like the way RT resolved the bullying arc (Ursa attack) was a disservice and made Jaune seem incompetent, he'd never had a problem fighting Grimm so it didn't really make sense as a character development moment when he stood up to it

Given he had no actual training I find his unexpected display of competence there more confusing and his speedy development more of an issue but that's just me.

ElMariachi said:
Well as I said, that was just my opinion, let's see what season 3 has in stock with him, personally I hope that if there's some focus on him, it'll be on his job as team leader and his relationship with the rest of team JNPR, especially what's the deal with that village Jaune and Ren mentioned in the season 2 finale.

Maybe season 3 will help, but I kind of doubt it to be honest, I've gotten cynical when it comes to their execution of Jaune.

ElMariachi said:
Yeah, it's clear that Sun wouldn't mind a relationship upgrade with Blake, but at the same time I can also see him accepting it without problems if Blake says that she's simply not interested. In any case so far Blake is too busy with that White Fang business to envision more than having some fun with someone else, and certainly not a romantic relationship.
Also, like you, I don't like the prospect that everyone gets paired with someone else and that Sun and Blake becomes a thing simply because they're both Faunus.

She seems... something for it, hard to tell but she seems sort of willing which I'll admit I also find odd for her character given everything.

Agreed, agreed, so much agreement.

Conundrum said:
Keeping in mind through the whole fight Pyrrha is using her semblance to affect her enemies and likely herself and her equipment these guys are crazy good, sure there is the scene later on with the Ursa but it feels like pandering to make Jaune feel good

My usual take on their poor performance with the Ursa is that while they are decently skilled and trained I.E better than Jaune, that doesn't make them brave and so a surprise fight coming out of nowhere is too much for them, essentially their cowards the moment they 'might' be threatened but perfectly functional when they choose to start a fight or think they can win.

ElMariachi said:
For me it's more that Jaune is supposed to be more of a tactician than a warrior

I might believe that if he studied rather than reading comics, sleeping in class and bothering Weiss... I was going to use a laughing emoticon but the Weiss bit always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Voikirium · Jul 22, 2015

Zam said:
I have some theories but I don't want to paint everyone who likes him with the same brush as that would be unrealistic and unfair.

But for a lot of people he's a convenient projection tool for themselves or they themselves share traits with him.

I might believe that if he studied rather than reading comics, sleeping in class and bothering Weiss... I was going to use a laughing emoticon but the Weiss bit always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd be lying if I said part of it wasn't a bit of projection, though I think we may well be using different mental definitions of it.

Speaking as a guy in High School, as far as these things go, Jaune's behavior is far from the worst I've seen. At least he seems to realize a bit that Weiss is, like, a person, and as such seems to be attempting to court her instead of some of the shit I've seen and heard, even if it is in a very shit way.

Spectrum · Jul 22, 2015

Zam said:
I- wait- what... I can intellectually, based on experience, grasp that these are a think but still, raaaaah! Why is this a thing!?

Also why target Weiss? Seriously at least Carding deserves it and it kind of a coward. I can already guess why "how could she turn him down, she's so awful, now she'll want him" mye mye mye.

It happened in...I think it was Fate Recondite, as if we really needed any other evidence that fic sucks. Shirou sees Jaune training alone, reads Crocea Mars and tells him some tips on how his weapons were used in the past.

Then in the next sparring session, Glynda pits him against Weiss and he creams her.

ffffffff--

ElMariachi · Jul 22, 2015

Conundrum said:
See, i disagree completely, for one he is not very bright. Another is he wants to protect people so I think he is more of a defender type, he is there to take hits for others and survive on his endurance and refusal to go down.

Zam said:
I might believe that if he studied rather than reading comics, sleeping in class and bothering Weiss... I was going to use a laughing emoticon but the Weiss bit always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Well if the fight against the Deathstalker is any indication, he does have a certain talent to coordinate his team, which is probably why Ozpin chose him as the team leader.

MinorGryph · Jul 22, 2015

Zam said:
Given he had no actual training I find his unexpected display of competence there more confusing and his speedy development more of an issue but that's just me.

Check out the way he was handling himself against the deathstalker:

In this fight, he was able to step in at the right time to shield Pyrrha from a blow from its claw. Ren actually did worse against a similar attack. Jaune's recovery time needs vast improvement, and his offense is basically flailing, but he could clearly see where he was needed and when it was time for someone else to act.

In his fight against Cardin he loses this tactical sense (his main positive trait), abandoning his shield and repeatedly charging blindly. He fights stupid, and pays for it. What I hate about the "resolution" fight with the Ursa Major is that Jaune doesn't use his positive traits to win! He uses the same blind offensive he tried against Cardin, and only succeeds in killing it because Pyrrha manipulated his shield. And then in the S2 finale he was literally flailing blindly, and Pyrrha took command of the team! His raw strength may have gone up rapidly, but it looks like his tactical skills have been abandoned by the writers... or Pyrrha is being groomed to replace him as leader, which I'm okay with. She's shown more concern for her teammates, already has great skill, and has a better work ethic. ~~Lolno, this will never happen. Can't have the audience surrogate experience real failure or consequences!~~

Conundrum · Jul 22, 2015

Ozpin's decisions are shrouded so deep in plots trying to guess the reason for why he does anything is an effort in futility. There are decent enough odds he picks leaders just for the names.

In the deathstalker fight Jaune dives in front of an attack, gets knocked on his ass, says Pyrrha's name, and tells Nora to hit it. Jaune's biggest contribution in that fight was taking a hit for Pyrrha, in every other fight without someone to defend he has no aim or goal but flails about usually getting beat down for his trouble with one time actually winning a fight without getting smacked around first.

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Good Civ Inspector

Tell me a secret~

Lilies for the lily throne!

Secretly a Cat

Secretly a Cat

Immaculate Blooming Lotus

Overly-Affectionate Zombie Squad

Secretly a Cat

SV's Estalia Guy

Giant Monster All Out Attack

SV's Estalia Guy

Tell me a secret~