RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[Nobody]

Isn't that because of her specific situation, where she would actually have LESS legal protection from anti-beastperson bigotry if she weren't the legal property of the Shield Hero?

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Going off the wiki for the series I don't think it really matters that much, apparently people tried to enslave demihumans living on the land the Shield Hero was given who (are at least partially made up of former residents who were enslaved and he bought back?) so it doesn't count for much.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

[RWBY] Hunters' Souls - Semblance workshop thread Discussion

This is a specialized RWBY canon/fanfic discussion thread mean to focus solely upon Semblances – the unique, Aura-derived superpowers that huntsmen and huntresses develop based on their individual personalities and needs. But before we begin to puzzle out canonical Semblances and work out new...

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Started my new Semblance contribution, discussion, design, and display thread.

It's only two posts right now because I've been off SV for ages and don't remember its policy on double-posting outside of the author doing so for fanfiction threads.


@Mook, the original post is a far different beast from the last. Things I thought were rules, years ago, have been thoroughly disproved. I'm also far less interested in asserting rules than in pointing out how an idea might be possible, but it would be unprecedented and characters on Remnant would probably react accordingly.

 

[Strypgia]

It's only two posts right now because I've been off SV for ages and don't remember its policy on double-posting outside of the author doing so for fanfiction threads.

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Double posting is really really minor. At most moderator might merge it for you. You can just edit things in, but generally if you're the OP and it's more than a couple of minutes apart, we really don't mind if you want to double post or whatever. You are definitely never going to get an infraction for something that small.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Okay, the link to the thread is in my signature, and I've got the post for Ruby Rose up.

As long as the mods are okay with it, I will continue posting canonical character Semblances, starting with the rest of Team RWBY, then JNPR, then other heroes, and the villains, before moving onto original Semblances written for crossover characters or original characters.

To make it as easy as possible for anyone to find anything they are looking for, posts will not only be Threadmarked, but also linked in the first few posts of the thread, where Semblances can be found by canonicity (is this a canon Semblance or a hypothetical Semblance? for a canon character or a hypothetical one?) or by category (is this a Semblance about going fast or messing with people's minds)?

So Ruby Rose is linked under "Canon Semblances" as well as every category that her Semblance falls under (Mobility, Deception, Conjuration).

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Double posting is really really minor. At most moderator might merge it for you. You can just edit things in, but generally if you're the OP and it's more than a couple of minutes apart, we really don't mind if you want to double post or whatever. You are definitely never going to get an infraction for something that small.

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What's the policy on embedding my own posts from my Tumblr account? Or copying and pasting the content of my posts from Tumblr into my posts here, hyper-links and all?


Okay, I have now posted my takes on the Semblances of Teams RWBY and JNPR.

The links to these posts are labeled (as interpreted by Sunder the Gold) in the Canon Semblances list, just in case someone else utterly rejects my interpretations and wants to post their own interpretations. Their takes can be linked right next to mine, clearly labeled.

I would go ahead and post more, but the lack of anyone else contributing or at least commenting makes it feel like building a private mausoleum rather than a public workshop. I already feel like that over on Tumblr.


I'm hoping I can start to see enough excitement about custom Semblances that I can feel jazzed about finishing the two new intelligence-type Semblances I've been trying to write. I'm eager to share them when they're done.

 

[Psyga315]

No offense, but trying to mis-represent and blame me exclusively for that feels rather unfair, especially seeing as the threads got locked in debates I had no part in several times.
Also given some of the rage against BB, I would say homophobia does indeed play a part at times, just that some are careful not to let it show, either due to it being an unconscious bias or them knowing open bigotry isn't quite as embraced in many areas as it used to be.

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So... Let me get this straight.

You don't want to be mis-represented, but at the same time, you decide to label anti-BB people as homophobes?

 

[Zam]

So... Let me get this straight.

You don't want to be mis-represented, but at the same time, you decide to label anti-BB people as homophobes?

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Also given some of the rage against BB, I would say homophobia does indeed play a part at times, just that some are careful not to let it show, either due to it being an unconscious bias or them knowing open bigotry isn't quite as embraced in many areas as it used to be.

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See the bolded underlined word? That word has actual, you know, meaning, it wasn't there just to look pretty.

 

[Liar]

Yang and Blake have some great chemistry, but I've seen that match happen before both in fiction and in real life and it can get rough. That's why I don't ship Bumblebee all that much.

 

[Zam]

Yang and Blake have some great chemistry, but I've seen that match happen before both in fiction and in real life and it can get rough. That's why I don't ship Bumblebee all that much.

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I am legit confused by this argument, you acknowledge they have chemistry, but because some relationships where people have good chemistry have issues you don't ship it? Do you feel this way about all romance?

 

[Liar]

I am legit confused by this argument, you acknowledge they have chemistry, but because some relationships where people have good chemistry have issues you don't ship it? Do you feel this way about all romance?

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Just because two people have good chemistry together doesn't mean they'll always work out as a couple. I've seen lots of folks get on real well, but then end up having a failed relationship. I just sort of saw that in Bumblebee from my own experiences. If they work out (which is probably likely), that's great. If they don't, oh well. I'm not partial to hating the ship or enthusiastic about the ship.

 

[Zam]

Just because two people have good chemistry together doesn't mean they'll always work out as a couple. I've seen lots of folks get on real well, but then end up having a failed relationship. I just sort of saw that in Bumblebee from my own experiences. If they work out (which is probably likely), that's great. If they don't, oh well. I'm not partial to hating the ship or enthusiastic about the ship.

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I feel this didn't really answer what I was asking, but I doubt pushing the matter will accomplish much for either of us, so thanks for trying to answer anyway, maybe I asked poorly.

 

[Liar]

I feel this didn't really answer what I was asking, but I doubt pushing the matter will accomplish much for either of us, so thanks for trying to answer anyway, maybe I asked poorly.

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What are you actually trying to ask?

I like Bumblebee even if that verges on neutral. I disagree with people hating on it (it's a ship, why hate on ships? Save your time!), and I especially disagree with people who only hate it because they're homophobic.

But you got to understand that a lot of people don't ship Bumblebee for a variety of reasons, and that could just very well comes down to preference like me.

 

[Zam]

What are you actually trying to ask?

I like Bumblebee even if that verges on neutral. I disagree with people hating on it (it's a ship, why hate on ships? Save your time!), and I especially disagree with people who only hate it because they're homophobic.

But you got to understand that a lot of people don't ship Bumblebee for a variety of reasons, and that could just very well comes down to preference like me.

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As I said, maybe I asked poorly, I was mostly confused by the seeming take that "because relationships with good chemistry have sometimes been rough, I don't ship BB" and was wondering if you apply that to all relationships cos I am pretty sure any well written romance should have good chemistry to it is an odd premise to be starting from and I was wondering if I was confused.

 

[Liar]

As I said, maybe I asked poorly, I was mostly confused by the seeming take that "because relationships with good chemistry have sometimes been rough, I don't ship BB" and was wondering if you apply that to all relationships cos I am pretty sure any well written romance should have good chemistry to it is an odd premise to be starting from and I was wondering if I was confused.

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Nah, this is a case where while, intellectually, I understand that RWBY is fiction and that the relationship will have a degree of more idealization than reality and will almost certainly work out in the long run, the bias I have in how I regard relationships in real life affects my perception of the relationships I see in fiction which is what shapes my preferences.

 

[Zam]

Nah, this is a case where while, intellectually, I understand that RWBY is fiction and that the relationship will have a degree of more idealization than reality and will almost certainly work out in the long run, the bias I have in how I regard relationships in real life affects my perception of the relationships I see in fiction which is what shapes my preferences.

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I see, thanks for the clarification that makes a lot more sense, sorry for the confusion.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I think he would have needed to be more thoughtful to be in a relationship with Blake specifically. To be together as romantic equals, to understand each other's needs and wants.

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Who do you think he could be in a relationship with? Do you think there is someone out there with simpler needs, or who communicates those needs without thinking? Are those the only kind of people you can see Sun having a stable relationship with?

I'm not sure such people exist. I don't think anyone ever communicates all of their needs, least of all the ones that most need addressing. These will never be simple to address, either, or else they would have sorted themselves out already.

But you know what Sun does do? He waits for at least two days of "nothing but small talk and weird looks" from a girl, for that girl (whom he doesn't know) to give any explanation for why she needs to stay in his apartment. That is patience and respect for someone else's boundaries that people love to forget about him.

 

[Parabola]

Who do you think he could be in a relationship with? Do you think there is someone out there with simpler needs, or who communicates those needs without thinking? Are those the only kind of people you can see Sun having a stable relationship with?

I'm not sure such people exist. I don't think anyone ever communicates all of their needs, least of all the ones that most need addressing. These will never be simple to address, either, or else they would have sorted themselves out already.

But you know what Sun does do? He waits for at least two days of "nothing but small talk and weird looks" from a girl, for that girl (whom he doesn't know) to give any explanation for why she needs to stay in his apartment. That is patience and respect for someone else's boundaries that people love to forget about him.

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The thing here specifically isn't "oh Sun couldn't be in a relationship with anyone". I think he'd probably go quite well with Neptune, the two seem to have a pretty good understanding of one another (the much-fabled 'bromance', which honestly could afford to drop the 'b'). Neptune's needs and wants from what we see are also easy to figure out at first sight - he wants attention and validation from others. Everyone wants that, of course, but he's very proactive in seeking it out.

And I really get the impression Sun would give anyone a place to crash for a couple of days, if they asked and they seemed like they needed it.

I don't dislike Black Sun and I'm certainly not going to stop anyone else from shipping it. I just can't really see myself shipping it in any way, and I was trying to explain my perspective of it.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

The thing here specifically isn't "oh Sun couldn't be in a relationship with anyone".

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I know it isn't. But do you think the same reasons you don't see him being a good partner for Blake also prevent him from being a good partner for Ruby, Weiss, Yang, Nora, Pyrrha, Neon Katt, or Velvet?

 

[Zam]

I know it isn't. But do you think the same reasons you don't see him being a good partner for Blake also preventing him from being a good partner for Ruby, Weiss, Yang, Nora, or Pyrrha?

Could you name one female character you think Sun could have a healthy relationship with? Or do you only see him in relationships with other guys?

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Why should it matter if they can only see him in a relationship with a guy? You wanted a relationship, you got one, the premise of your complaint has been satisfied. What's more, Sun barely interacts with anyone not Blake or Neptune so determining a relationship for him to have with anyone else would be tricky at best, even without the aforementioned reasons.

 

[Gh055twr1t3r]

I know it isn't. But do you think the same reasons you don't see him being a good partner for Blake also prevent him from being a good partner for Ruby, Weiss, Yang, Nora, Pyrrha, Neon Katt, or Velvet?

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I hereby declare the ship name for SunxRuby to be Sunkiss.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I hereby declare the ship name for SunxRuby to be Sunkiss.

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That's a good one. I'm also fond of Red Sun and Strawbanana.


Anyway, I'm up to Glynda Goodwitch on the canonical good-guy Semblances. I've had to skip over Yatsuhashi until I finish re-reading After The Fall, but I have all of the other canonical heroic student Semblances covered.

Looking forward to getting to my original Semblances.

And of course, I've made room to threadmark and link other people's interpretations of canonical Semblances, and there's always room for others' original Semblance ideas.

 

[Mook]

Why should it matter if they can only see him in a relationship with a guy? You wanted a relationship, you got one, the premise of your complaint has been satisfied. What's more, Sun barely interacts with anyone not Blake or Neptune so determining a relationship for him to have with anyone else would be tricky at best, even without the aforementioned reasons.

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I saw a fairly plausible analysis once that predicted that Sun might end up with Weiss. There is nothing there now of course, but Weiss doesn't seem to have any interest in romance at the moment anyway so it is actually to that ships advantage that it would start getting development until the Vacuo arc.


Could have been a shoot and miss of course.

 

[Xanah]

I saw a fairly plausible analysis once that predicted that Sun might end up with Weiss. There is nothing there now of course, but Weiss doesn't seem to have any interest in romance at the moment anyway so it is actually to that ships advantage that it would start getting development until the Vacuo arc.


Could have been a shoot and miss of course.

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I'm sorry, Sun/Weiss? What? I've got to hear this

 

[Liar]

Weirdly enough, I'm kind of rooting for White Knight now. I didn't really like Jaune and Weiss in the first four volumes, but with how they've grown since then I think it stands a shot.

 

[Mook]

I'm sorry, Sun/Weiss? What? I've got to hear this

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That was my initial reaction but I think they made a pretty decent argument for it: LINK HERE

Speaking of Neptune, he's a red herring. He's there for two reasons imo:
1) to show how shallow Weiss is at first. How she goes for what is looks only. We're shown (in retrospect) that Neptune's look is basically Atlas fashion; it's not a coincidence the Marigold guy at the benefit party had such similar looks. I think it's likely pre-V1 Weiss likely wouldn't have turned Marigold down and that she does so in V4 is telling of her growth. Weiss has grown past the shallowness that had her interested in Neptune.
2) to take our attention away from seeing the end-game ship right away. Weiss is interested in Neptune and Sun in Blake. Both of them for superficial and/or misguided reasons. As they both grow and mature, I believe they will move away from what 17-18 year old selves' opinions and naturally be drawn to each other.


Weiss

Two of the biggest ships we see for Weiss are White Rose and Monochrome. Both sort of make a point with what Weiss seems to need in a partner and what would be relevant story-wise for her development as a character. However to me, neither ships make sense in that… well first, both seem to enjoy absolutely disregarding that Weiss has been portrayed as straight, or at least predominantly interested in males. Second, both of those ships are an incomplete portrait if we consider both what Weiss responds well to and what makes sense for her path in the big picture.
Piecing all that together… we do have a male character who is cheerful, outgoing (what WR argue for) and a faunus (what Monos argue for). Let's not forget, Sun falls very much in line with her rebelling against this higher society she's now got so much disdain for, not only because he's a faunus, but also because he's a… rapscallion, per her own terms.
I think we've been shown that he's the type of person she needs around her, and ending up with him makes sense plot-wise.
…And as a side note, how funny is it that Weiss is a stowaway on that airship? Don't tell me that's not done on purpose.

Sun

As we all know, his main ship is Black Sun. I've made a point up there of what bad taste it'd be to for him to be in a faunus/faunus relationship. So aside from that, which is a writing point of view, if we look at the characters themselves… Basically Sun likes the idea of Blake, he likes the person believes she is… the one who goes on a one-woman rampage against the White Fang and gets revenge for her friends. The brazen defiance and sense of duty…. That's only his interpretation of Blake. What he thinks he likes about Blake is actually not who she is.
But. Those are traits we have seen Weiss display. When she made a bet with her father to earn the right to go to Beacon instead of Atlas and won. When she caused a scene and called everyone out bullshit priorities at that gala in V4. How her very sense of duty is her entire motivation to becoming a Huntress at all. Those are large displays of this, but she keeps showing us how upfront and headstrong she is in smaller moments too, stuff like calling Blake out on not sleeping and demanding for her to share what was on her mind.
Basically, from what I understand… the person Sun thinks Blake is, the person he likes, is in fact closer to who Weiss is.

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Plus with the way the writers like their callbacks and very deliberate phrasings when setting up romances I agree that it would be really hilarious if this ended up being unintentionally prophetic on Weiss' part:

Weiss's quote "I'm still not sure how I feel about you" is dripping foreshadowing if you ask me.

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It's not much for the moment, but aside from the slight possibility of WhiteRose there really isn't that much competition for Weiss' affections for the foreseeable future. The scene with Marigold while establishing other aspects of her character also seemed to show that Weiss currently has more important things to worry about than seeking romance, so it's easy to see a romantic arc on her part being put on hold at least until the Vacuo arc. Especially since her role in the Atlas arc is clearly tied more up into her family drama and the Schnee legacy, so I'm not sure that would be a good place to insert a romance.

Also if she manages to finally fix (or at least take the first proper steps towards fixing) the Schnee legacy in the Atlas arc then it would make sense that she is able to relax a bit more in the arcs afterwards and start thinking about romance again.


edit:
Plus in general Sun-Weiss does have that classic Princess & Pauper/Thief setup.