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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Teen Spirit said:
    Illia's is a lesbian yeah but that's not shoe horned in and background person was something their VA said, I mean buy it sure. Again that's Two couples and two others, six people in six volumes. Not exactly shoe horned or scrambling.
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    More like six people in three volumes.

    StellarSeeker said:
    Because they're all female, apparently.
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    Honestly, I didn't really pay much mind to the inclusion of LGTBQ characters until people brought it up.

    Simply playing devils advocate though, the only real complaint I could think of being potentially legitimate is that, traditionally lesbians have been treated as the 'safe' choice for LGBTQ representation. And so far the represented characters have all been female.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    I thought Gekko girl was also stated to be a lesbian. And the random background ship's mate was declared trans in a previous season. Which bugs me more for the laziness than anything else.

    Edit : I guess part of it just goes back to the limited screen time of the show too. That always seems to color how I tally up things that are going on.
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    They'd been considering having the pilot who got Weiss out of Atlas as well but decided against it because they had no plans to do anything but kill him.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Yeah okay but again...how is that any of what you claimed? At no point did any of them feel forced and CRWBY has hinted quite heavily that Bumblebee was intended from the beginning so it had SIX VOLUMES of build up.
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    That goes back to what I said. My complaints about a Blake and Yang paring have nothing to do with the paring members and more to do with finding RWBY's relationship writing weak.

    Edit : Shoe horned may not have been the right words. More. Having it all come to a head at once.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    That goes back to what I said. My complaints about a Blake and Yang paring have nothing to do with the paring and more to do with finding RWBY's relationship writing weak.

    Edit : Shoe horned may not have been the right words. More. Having it all come to a head at once.
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    I've heard the writers behind RWBY are a bit timid about writing romances hence why Renora barely has anything but I'm hoping since Bumblebee involves two main characters we'll see way more with Yang and Blake.

    Ehh, at most we've had two couples this season (The Cotta-Arc family and Bumblebee) and the show didn't beat us over the head with "They're gay!" with Jaune's sister and her wife and they had a small but reasonable role in the plot explaining where JNR had been staying and providing help with the Team's escape plan.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    I've heard the writers behind RWBY are a bit timid about writing romances hence why Renora barely has anything but I'm hoping since Bumblebee involves two main characters we'll see way more with Yang and Blake.
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    This I can believe. Also just the limitations of RWBY's graphics, especially in the first few seasons, would have probably played havoc with properly getting across the sort of nuanced emotion you need in non cliche romance. Or just making nuanced emotions look anything but silly as hell on the first generation of facial rigs.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    This I can believe. Also just the limitations of RWBY's graphics, especially in the first few seasons, would have probably played havoc with properly getting across the sort of nuanced emotion you need in non cliche romance. Or just making nuanced emotions look anything but silly as hell on the first generation of facial rigs.
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    Which is why I like the engine they're using now because they've gotten so good at conveying subtle emotions.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Which is why I like the engine they're using now because they've gotten so good at conveying subtle emotions.
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    I know it's because they didn't have the money for the licenses or the rendering hardware at the time or to pay all the modelers and animators they really needed for all of those assets. But it took RWBY 4 seasons to get up to the level of graphical and animation quality it really needed to have in season 1.

    Not to mention an episode run time averaging greater than 10 minutes. :V

    I repeat what I've said before. RWBY is a show that's reach has always exceed its grasp, saved by its fandoms affection for both it and its studio more than its innate quality. Cause it honestly it couldn't have existed as a broadcast show in the age before social media.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    I know it's because they didn't have the money for the licenses or the rendering hardware at the time or to pay all the modelers and animators they really needed for all of those assets. But it took RWBY 4 seasons to get up to the level of graphical and animation quality it really needed to have in season 1.

    Not to mention an episode run time averaging greater than 10 minutes. :V

    I repeat what I've said before. RWBY is a show that's reach has always exceed its grasp, saved by its fandoms affection for both it and its studio more than its innate quality. Cause it honestly it couldn't have existed as a broadcast show in the age before social media.
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    RWBY is an interesting series to have come in on several volumes in. Cause I started watching the series in Volume 5 and I kind of caught up in between episodes.

    I have no idea how someone would deal with the week wait between episodes in Volume 1. First two volumes and 3 to some extent definitely need to be binged.

    I do honestly feel like RWBY has gotten legit good. and it's reach is finally matching it's grasp but yeah it's a series that could only exist now.

    It's gonna be freaking weird if RoosterTeeth TV actually becomes a thing and we have RWBY on TV.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    RWBY is an interesting series to have come in on several volumes in. Cause I started watching the series in Volume 5 and I kind of caught up in between episodes.

    I have no idea how someone would deal with the week wait between episodes in Volume 1. First two volumes and 3 to some extent definitely need to be binged.

    I do honestly feel like RWBY has gotten legit good. and it's reach is finally matching it's grasp but yeah it's a series that could only exist now.

    It's gonna be freaking weird if RoosterTeeth TV actually becomes a thing and we have RWBY on TV.
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    Forcing a consistent episode length on RWBY could only be a good thing in my book.

    And as for how we handled the wait on our five minute long episodes . . . Well back on MY day sonny . . . We complained endlessly about how this was not at all what we had been lead to expect by the trailers. :V

    Also we all hated on Jaun. HARD.

    Just . . . So hard.

    Edit : As for its quality improvement . It has been real and substantial at every levels. Albeit also starting from a pretty low point.

    I think even now the show is sort of burdened by its first few volumes.
     
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    StellarSeeker said:
    Because they're all female, apparently.

    (I don't really get it either.)
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    It's not even accurate, Scarlet has basically been confirmed to be gay by WoG (which matches a certain scene in volume 3) and he's almost certainly going to get at least some focus in the Vacuo arc. And the first 100% confirmed instance of gay relationships in the show was between a pair of gay men in the background:



    So there's no particular reason to think that they aren't planning to include some some m/m relationships eventually.



    Triggerhappy said:
    I know it's because they didn't have the money for the licenses or the rendering hardware at the time or to pay all the modelers and animators they really needed for all of those assets. But it took RWBY 4 seasons to get up to the level of graphical and animation quality it really needed to have in season 1.

    Not to mention an episode run time averaging greater than 10 minutes. :V

    I repeat what I've said before. RWBY is a show that's reach has always exceed its grasp, saved by its fandoms affection for both it and its studio more than its innate quality. Cause it honestly it couldn't have existed as a broadcast show in the age before social media.
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    Honestly I don't really get this complaint. Would RWBY have been possible if it didn't take advantage of new technology to broadcast itself to a wider audience? No obviously it wouldn't.

    But there are so many good things out there that could never have been made without having the internet to serve as a platform. There are so many genuinely great webcomics, comedy sketches, review shows, let's plays, animated shorts, amateur cooking shows, abridged series, etcetcetc that are only possible thanks to the rise of social media.

    Heck Rooster Teeth as a company would not exist if not for the internet making it possible for them to make money by making cheap silly videos where they filmed video game characters bobbing their heads, now they're producing shows like gen:LOCK that makes a Netflix hit like The Dragon Prince look cheap in comparison.

    If not for the internet I would never have been able to enjoy stuff like Order of the Stick, Daughter of the Lilies, Paranatural, Erfworld, Ava's Demon, Undivine, Far to the North, Kill Six Billion Demons, etc. If not for the internet providing aspiring artists with a method of getting their product out there most of those products would likely never have been made, and certainly wouldn't have caught my notice.

    Some of them, like Order of the Stick and Erfworld weren't even particularly good when they started, but they were able to gain a following and start paying the bills, and that gave the creators the chance to improve and start making something truly great. For RWBY this applies even more so, it might not have been able to grasp the moon, but reaching for the moon let it grasp the hills, and from there it was able to reach the mountains, and from there the clouds and then the Kármán line.

    Now the moon is just within reach, and it never would have been possible if they never tried to reach for it in the first place.
     
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    Imma be blunt. Gen Lock looks kinda crap. Better than RWBY on a technical level but not on the level of Dragon Prince.

    And this is coming from someone who had to have Dragon Prince grow on them. I didn't like the animation at first.

    And my point about RWBY is not a technological one. Or rather not the technology one that you seem to think I'm making.

    No duh the show couldn't be produced by a studio of middling resources prior to relatively recently. The software and rendering resources were prohibitive.

    But that's not my point.

    RWBY has succeeded more due to social media than any other technology. Much as, say, Erfworld has succeeded due to a small devout fandom.

    Without that constant contact with the creators I suspect most fans would have rapidly lost patience with RWBY.

    And lets be clear here. This sort of intimate social media integration is relatively recent. Much more recent than social media in general.

    It wasn't a thing, not on this scale, before YouTube monetized. It was not a thing when RT were building their business model and RWBY was being proposed and roughed out.

    It's an interesting thing to observe as it is a phenomenon that content creators must be increasingly sensitive to. It can have a lot of potential to give small creators space to grow and develop a reliable following. It can also get out of hand and cultivate toxic fandoms.
     
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    Teen Spirit said:
    Yeah okay but again...how is that any of what you claimed? At no point did any of them feel forced and CRWBY has hinted quite heavily that Bumblebee was intended from the beginning so it had SIX VOLUMES of build up.
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    Lmfao. I sure hope the CRWBY wouldn't think anyone was dumb enough to believe that it was.

    There's a mountain of things that don't make sense from the perspective of bumblebee being planned from the beginning
     
    devilkingx2 said:
    Lmfao. I sure hope the CRWBY wouldn't think anyone was dumb enough to believe that it was.

    There's a mountain of things that don't make sense from the perspective of bumblebee being planned from the beginning
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    In your personal opinion; but given the sheer number of essays, analyse and long time fans who think otherwise I would disagree that your assessment is factual.
     
    devilkingx2 said:
    Lmfao. I sure hope the CRWBY wouldn't think anyone was dumb enough to believe that it was.
    There's a mountain of things that don't make sense from the perspective of bumblebee being planned from the beginning
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    From Tv Tropes
    • During the initiation test in the Emerald, the new students were supposed to partner up with the first person they meet. It's notable that Blake purposely sought out Yang to partner with her. The shadow that was tailing Yang was confirmed to be Blake, not a Grimm. This is similar to how Pyrrha purposely sought out Jaune, and in contrast to Ruby and Weiss's accidental eye contact.

    • When Blake vents her frustration about why nobody is challenging Torchwick or investigating the White Fang, her team is spurred to help her track them down. Yang fist pumps, points at Blake and declares "I love it when you're feisty", prompting Blake to smile at her. When their investigation leads to a fight with Torchwick in a Paladin, Blake reacts very strongly to seeing Yang getting sucker-punched by the mecha, causing Ruby to hurriedly reassure her that Yang is going to be okay.
    • Yang repeatedly insists to everyone to trust her when she says Blake will come to the dance. She then bares her soul to Blake, explaining why it's important that Blake take care of herself by confessing that she once nearly got herself and Ruby killed because of her obsession with seeking the truth. This heart-to-heart ends with Yang hugging a startled Blake, pleading with her to rest - both for herself and those she cares about. She then winks over her shoulder, stating she'll save Blake a dance. When Blake finally attends with Sun, she warns Sun that her first dance is spoken for. She's later seen completing the dance with Yang. It's also worth noting the Blake is the ONLY person Yang is seen dancing with during the dance.
      Yang: And, if you feel like coming out tomorrow...I'll save you a dance. [winks over her shoulder]
    • When Yang defeats Mercury, Blake is the only teammate who gives her a standing ovation. When Yang is tricked into attacking Mercury, it's Blake's hesitation to believe her (not Weiss or Ruby's) that brings Yang to tears (the very first time we see her cry in the show). Blake admits it's because Yang's situation is all too familiar for her, but she believes her regardless. That parallel becomes clear when Adam, confirmed as Blake's abusive ex-lover, threatens Blake that he'll make her suffer for her betrayal by destroying everything she loves. When he spots Yang desperately searching for Blake, and Blake's horror at seeing her, he decides to start with Yang. He stabs Blake in the stomach which drives Yang into a tearful rage. After Adam cuts off her arm and renders her unconscious, Blake throws herself over Yang, distracts Adam with a clone and flees with Yang despite her stomach wound. The difference between Yang and Adam's treatment of Blake makes it clear who cares more for Blake's happiness. It's also noteworthy that right after Adam says he'll destroy everything Blake loves, the very next shot is of Yang searching for her. It's...not subtle.
    • When Beacon is being evacuated, Yang and Blake are lying on the ground with bandaged wounds. Despite being curled up with pain, Blake reaches over to grip the unconscious Yang's hand, sobbing her apologies. Once everyone is safe, she disappears, the implication being that she's abandoning everyone because of her deep guilt over Yang's career-ending injury and because it's the only way to protect them all from Adam. Yang takes Blake's departure very personally, and it mimics what happened years before with her father—both Taiyang and Yang experienced a sudden, unexplained departure of a woman they care a great deal for at a moment of great need (Blake leaving an injured Yang and Raven leaving Taiyang just after Yang's birth).

    • In "Alone Together", Yang's the most distraught at Blake leaving, initially trying to hide it behind anger and leaving Weiss and Ruby feeling very troubled by how personally she's taking Blake's absence. Yang storms off to her room, where she sits alone, staring forlornly at the photograph of Team RWBY while stroking Blake's image. Weiss follows her to the room and engages her in an emotionally intimate conversation about it. Most of the conversation is about how Yang feels like she's spent her entire life being abandoned by everyone she loves, and that Blake's made her feel the same way. Weiss gently encourages Yang to think about how lonely and afraid Blake must be feeling and how much she's going to need them when she returns, resulting in Yang admitting that core of her problem is that Blake wasn't there when she needed Blake the most. While Ruby hopes Blake will come back and Weiss believes Blake will come back, Yang needs Blake to come back.
      Yang (breaking down into tears): What if I needed her here for me?
    • After Sun gets injured by Ilia, he and Blake have a talk about why Blake left her team. Blake insists that she only brings harm to the people she cares about. Sun tells Blake that the reason her friends fight for her is because they want to, and it hurts when she pushes them away. He then goes on to say that he would willingly get hurt again if that's what it took to protect Blake… and immediately promises that Yang would do the same.
    There's a reason this ship was popular. The Show freaking hinted at it for a while.
     
    Honestly, given how the show had been going and the events of this season it seems far more likely that the original plan was Eclipse (with a bit of a tease to BB) and maybe at a stretch have Yang be either gay or bi and have a one-sided crush on Blake (at a big stretch), but while plotting and writing the season they decided that BB actually worked really well into the plot and would help to build the drama for the next season. Sort of like what happened with Korrasami but without having to work around Nick's S&Ps.
     
    I think its more likely that they didn't have it set in stone either way. And gave both some backing so they could go whichever way felt right.

    Like V2, especially in hindsight gives lots of support for both, but without saying anything concrete.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Honestly, given how the show had been going and the events of this season it seems far more likely that the original plan was Eclipse (with a bit of a tease to BB) and maybe at a stretch have Yang be either gay or bi and have a one-sided crush on Blake (at a big stretch), but while plotting and writing the season they decided that BB actually worked really well into the plot and would help to build the drama for the next season. Sort of like what happened with Korrasami but without having to work around Nick's S&Ps.
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    *Stares*

    What about Blake being the only one Yang danced with, or the Wink. Or Yang's reaction to Blake leaving, or last Volume with Yang's breakdown over needing Blake back? Or everything else I pointed out?

    It's like, Bumblebee isn't the only thing I'm interested in when it comes RWBY, but I keep talking about it so much because I keep getting this horrible feeling it's gonna turn into the Korrasami debate all over again and when they do kiss we're gonna have five thousand people screaming about it having no build up.

    Like I can buy that maybe they weren't certain if they should go Black Sun or BumbleBee but I do think it's pretty clear they were at least hinting at BB since Volume 2. Yang is clearly flirting.
    Heck if you look at the Pre-release stream for Volume 1. Blake's VA Accidentally Semi-joking revealed it before the show even began.

    Sorry, I don't mean to rant at you I'm just getting frustrated cause it seems like this is going to be a debate for the whole Fandom for a while . I can already see a slap fight brewing on the TV Tropes page because someone moved the Yang/Blake stuff back to Ho Yay and removed the Ambigiously Bi trope from Blake's Character Sheet which is just....come on people.
     
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    As somebody that has shipped BB since, like, Volume 2, I'm really confused that people think it's a new thing that textually emerged ex nihilo. Like I can totally buy the argument that they hedged their bets and just decided to commit to it in the last couple seasons roughly, but the idea that this is some new thing even in canon is like... no?
     
    Does anyone else get the feeling that all this arguing is why they didn't have Blake and Yang kiss?
     
    Blake and Yang's relationship was definitely always intended to be/become something close and intimate; they get along well and have a mutually supportive relationship from the get-go, in contrast to Ruby and Weiss rubbing each other the wrong way initially. But that's not the same thing as Bumblebee having been set in stone as what was going to happen from the very beginning, and I don't really feel like that's what was happening early on.

    I think it's more likely that the writers shifted towards Bumblebee as time went on, not necessarily due to its popularity but because the two just proved to have a certain chemistry to them that made it a natural development. And because it was something that was something of a natural development, it still fits just fine looking backward.

    I've actually had similar experiences in my writing, of characters surprising me as I write them because I start to see interactions that strike me as the natural progression that they'd take in their interactions but that I hadn't actually planned out in advance.
     
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    I still wish Jaune's semblance was something cool like damage reflect, would've been so great, ah the wasted potential.

    What kind of cool and much-better-than-what-we-got ideas did you guys have for his semblance way back?
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    No. they didn't kiss this Volume because it wouldn't have fit the scenes.
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    This.

    Seriously, 'let's make out' is generally not the first/primary action in a slowly building relationship. The two are taking comfort in each other's presence and at the moment, that's all they want/need. I'm fine with the relationship remaining platonic or going further so long as it remains realistic/gradually building.

    We see that with Ren and Nora. Gradual changes in interaction over time as their relationship develops. Though Nora is still Nora:
    "Get back here with My Man!"
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    I suspect that she wouldn't be yelling that if Ren was still in easy earshot though.
     
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