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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Itaywex said:
    I feel bad for Qrow.

    Not that I think that him hitting ozpin/Oscar is 100% justified, but still.

    I like how Qrow has become a permanent party member since volume 4. He's my favourite character.

    Though I am somewhat afraid that he'll die this volume, as the op doesn't seem very kind to him.
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    I don't. Qrow has been a dick since his introduction. This, frankly, is his just desserts. The hens coming back to roost. Or whatever the metaphor is. Mercury wasn't exactly wrong when he compared his father to Qrow.
    Especially now that we see Qrow punches children when angry.
    Renewal said:
    Presumably along the lines of a big ego.

    EDIT: After further thinking and elaboration, a smaller soul probably implies humility, a person who's satisfied with a smaller place in life (and is probably the exact opposite of Salem), along the lines of a Samwise Gamgee or something.
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    So... Not Ruby then. Samwise is a man satisfied with a simple life. Ruby wants to be a hero and save the world.
    Leingod said:
    That isn't any different at all from the Maidens thing. My point in bringing that up was this: The fact that retcons exist does not mean that every single perceived discrepancy is automatically a retcon. Before you immediately assert that something is a retcon rather than just bring it up as a possibility, you need to provide some kind of evidence for why it is or might be that isn't just "retcons exist, therefore this is a retcon."
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    Maybe the fact that Miles Luna directly stated that he came up with the idea of the gods in v4? So yeah, retcon.
    devilkingx2 said:
    Having super powers isn't supposed to stop you from being relatable/normal/etc. That's the whole point of heroes like spiderman
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    But you were saying that she didn't come from some great bloodline or anything. The whole 'silver eyed warriors' thing kind of negates that.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    And Tite Kubo looked to old designs that he forgot about to create new characters.
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    While that is interesting, I do have to wonder what it has to do with the price of tea in China.

    Or rather, why I should care about what someone else does when my point is that the episode about Remnant's fairy tales drawing from the world's history name drops two fairy tales and then shocker, we find out that they were drawn from Remnant's history.

    Repeating and echoing @Leingod's post, retcons existing do not mean something must be a retcon and (less relevantly because other people, even!) people drawing on old ideas in different situations do not mean something wasn't pre-planned.
     
    Mahrac said:
    While that is interesting, I do have to wonder what it has to do with the price of tea in China.

    Or rather, why I should care about what someone else does when my point is that the episode about Remnant's fairy tales drawing from the world's history name drops two fairy tales and then shocker, we find out that they were drawn from Remnant's history.

    Repeating and echoing @Leingod's post, retcons existing do not mean something must be a retcon and (less relevantly because other people, even!) people drawing on old ideas in different situations do not mean something wasn't pre-planned.
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    So, you are calling Miles Luna a liar. Ok then.
     
    Mahrac said:
    why I should care about what someone else does when my point is that the episode about Remnant's fairy tales drawing from the world's history name drops two fairy tales and then shocker, we find out that they were drawn from Remnant's history.
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    The point is that to him, the Zoroastrian-Zelda-hybrid stuff smacks more of on-the-fly repurposing than actually foreshadowed material. Maybe it would've been a better comparison to bring up Bakuman instead of Bleach...
     
    Mahrac said:
    And yet Pyrrha specifically mentions The Tale of Two Brothers and The Girl in the Tower in V3 chapter 6.
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    I mean, "The Tale of Two Brothers" by itself doesn't mean Gods. It could have easily been something like a knockoff of HP's "Tale of Three Brothers" or whatever. It's entirely possible that when the writers were coming up with this backstory they looked back at the myth titles they had previous created and made the myth fit the pre-existing title.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    But you were saying that she didn't come from some great bloodline or anything. The whole 'silver eyed warriors' thing kind of negates that.
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    The implementation of the silver eyes is what makes her basically still normal, they essentially don't do anything 99% of the time.

    Like, nobody can have a life fully comparable to blake or weiss or pyrrha or penny because they're so fundamentally different (weiss maybe, pyrrha maybe, but it'd be a stretch) than a normal person

    Meanwhile Basically any of us could live ruby's life minus literally 2 specific instances
     
    Yeah, does anyone have a source for Miles saying they only came up with the cosmology in Volume 4? I've never heard of it anywhere.
     
    From What I recall, its almost the opposite. Miles said coming up with the brothers was basically his first contribution to the series after he was brought on.

    I think people tend to mix things up a bit tbh. Like as an example, on rwby rewind they talked about creating Oscar after V3. But they werent saying Ozpin reincarnating was a last minute swerve. Just that Oscar specifically wasn't given a name/design/voice etc until after V3. He was just a futue plot point before then.
     
    The moment you've all been dreading has arrived, people:

     
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    Delphisage said:
    The moment we've all been dreading has arrived, people:

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    What, the moment I continue to not give even a single flying shit about him because he has maybe one or two salient points buried within each hour of meandering garbage that takes forever to get to the point to pad out his video lengths, and which are all promptly kneecapped when he resorts to outright lies and misrepresentations to make himself seem smart and makes utterly disgusting personal attacks at the creators, and then on social media he acts like a thin-skinned manchild when called out for it?

    "Dread" is perhaps not the right word for it.
     
    Delphisage said:
    The moment we've all been dreading has arrived, people:

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    I've never understood why people on YouTube think 2 hour plus videos of ranting nonsense is a good form of criticism. If you can't concisely boil down your major points into several small segments you fail as a critic. Do they really expect people to sit through 2 hours of them whining? Who would do that? If you have that kind of time in life find a hobby, or failing that learn how to make your own videos and make your own show.

    Or as it's put in this video:

     
    VolantRedX said:
    I've never understood why people on YouTube think 2 hour plus videos of ranting nonsense is a good form of criticism. If you can't concisely boil down your major points into several small segments you fail as a critic. Do they really expect people to sit through 2 hours of them whining? Who would do that? If you have that kind of time in life find a hobby, or failing that learn how to make your own videos and make your own show.

    Or as it's put in this video:

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    I wish I could give this both a Funny and an Insightful.
     
    Review videos should, at an absolute max, be 30 minutes long. That is far more than enough time for you to summarize the work, hit on the concept and your issues with it, and make like... 3-4 key arguments as to why the thing you're critiquing is terrible. If you go broad strokes, you can accomplish a lot more. If you're at 40, you could probably trim some things, but like... it's probably managable. If you're at an hour, then you need to cut a weaker argument, probably more, and focus on the essentials as well as making far more effort getting to the point. When you're at two hours, that's a problem.

    I actually saw a video that critiqued a show really dear to me and I thought was largely misguided. But it's a video I actually deeply respect because they managed to critique the whole of a 50 episode series within 34 minutes (with 5-7 of that being setup that could, admittedly, probably have been cut by a couple minutes) rather effectively and made concise arguments that could be critiqued. That is almost a lost art now.

    I can't even see whether the criticisms are that good because since I don't blindly trust Youtube critics, I would likely need to also be checking the claims through the source material as well as remembering, and I simply don't have that sort of fucking time in my life when it's 2 hours long.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I've never understood why people on YouTube think 2 hour plus videos of ranting nonsense is a good form of criticism. If you can't concisely boil down your major points into several small segments you fail as a critic. Do they really expect people to sit through 2 hours of them whining? Who would do that? If you have that kind of time in life find a hobby, or failing that learn how to make your own videos and make your own show.

    Or as it's put in this video:

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    Soulbro wasn't talking about people failing to be concise, though. He was demanding the entire genre of AVGN clones/movie reactionaries to stop existing because of how nobody who makes Youtube videos about movies knows how filmmaking works. Something that has nothing to do with RWBY, because frankly, the idea that any of it went through a filmmaking process would offend me.
     
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    Staff Notice: Borderline Rule 2.
    Psyga315 said:
    Other than that FTFY, chances are no one is gonna give a crap, either because it's two hours long or it's someone who dares riff on RWBY.
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    Oh puh-fucking-lease. I don't care if someone doesn't like RWBY, and I also don't care if someone points out its flaws. I might disagree with their conclusions and debate them on them, but I'm not personally offended that someone doesn't like the same things as I do.

    You know what I do hate? Some piece of shit who makes low-effort long-ass "analysis" videos where they clearly don't know what the hell they're talking about and just want to make Youtube bucks from hating on something that's popular to hate on and will guarantee lots of clicks, which are padded to hell and back because Youtube algorithms and idiots eat that shit up no matter how little of substance is actually there.

    I hate a disgusting piece of shit who has the balls to bandy about the name of Monty Oum like a club and wield it against his friends and co-workers and act as though he knew Monty Oum better than they did and cares more about Monty Oum than they did. I doubt the motherfucker ever so much as shook Monty Oum's hand at RTX, he doesn't have the right to talk about "Monty's vision" to the people who Monty shared that vision with from the very start of the creative process.

    I hate a dishonest son of a bitch who outright manipulates the footage he uses to support outright lies so that he give himself more padding for his videos and more chances to bitch and trick people into thinking he's smart.

    And I hate a sack of shit who spends all this time and energy making Youtube money hating on creators when he clearly lacks the talent or drive to actually try to put out anything of real creative merit himself, because as the above video makes very clear, bitching for two hours on the internet is the easiest thing in the Goddamn world to get congratulated about.

    I hate Fatmanfalling because I find him to be a legitimately repellent and loathsome human being who has recorded literal hours of personal insults and attacks against the creators of a work of far more creative merit and entertainment value than anything he ever has or will produce, and who have shown far more tolerance and patience with criticism and internet hatedom than that thin-skinned manchild has ever shown on social media when someone calls him out on his bullshit.
     
    Honestly, the early parts of his video are actually pretty well done. He's able to sum up Weiss's entire arc in the show and why it's effective, Yang's arc, point out the seeming disconnect between what the creators are making and their own idea about what they're making. Pointed out where the Illia and Blake fight worked as well as a major community issue with Illia's whip. Had he focused on a few more major points, like Cinder's seeming lack of interest in Ruby, the fact that Blake seems to exist in a totally separate flow of time from the rest of the cast, and how Oz still seems to enjoy hiding things from the cast he could have gotten a video down to about 10 minutes and been a fairly well-done critique of the show. As it stands nothing past that the fake ending mattered because I'm not spending 2 hours watching someone rant into a microphone.
     
    I just think its funny that a review of V5 is as badly paced and unwieldy as the actual volume was.

    But more seriously, the idea that anyone riffing or critiquing RWBY will just be ignored by fanboys is super annoying. Because yes, there will always be a small subset that put there head in the dirt to anyone not heaping praise. But thats all media.

    Hell thats a decent proportion of FMF's own fanbase.

    But nobody paying any attention to the fanbase of RWBY could say "oh they just blindly accepted V5" without being a goddamn liar. Doesn't matter what site you go to, there was plenty of valid crit's being had everywhere up to and easily including the massive subreddit and RT's own forums.

    FMF acts like he is an arbiter of truth and the only one willing to "say it like he is" But he isnt. Never was.

    And I'm not going to get mad at anyone pointing out flaws but him/his band, the fucking rwde tag on tumblr doing things like seeing the trailer for V6, seeing the different sized relic and just assuming that Miles/animators just forgot the size of the relic and then making posts whining about it before the season even aired is not a flaw. Its people with a bone to pick looking for something to complain about.
     
    Slater said:
    I just think its funny that a review of V5 is as badly paced and unwieldy as the actual volume was.
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    And much like Volume 5, it actually started out somewhat promising but then soon devolved into a mire of terrible pacing, nothing of substance happening for long stretches of time, and a payoff that wasn't even remotely worth the time spent waiting for something to happen, overall feeling like you could have chopped its length in half without losing anything meaningful.
     
    ...At least he isn't any of the 500 clickbait opportunistic leeches in the video recs, making dumb videos with cringe-inducing titles and thumbnails...
     
    Slater said:
    I just think its funny that a review of V5 is as badly paced and unwieldy as the actual volume was.
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    The big issue is that everyone thinks they're the next Mr. Plinkett not realizing that RLM only made a handful of those videos and they focused exclusively on a handful of films that are basically broken. They looked at them not on a scene by scene basis trying to find every minor flaw to bandy about. RLM had a very broad critique that focused almost entirely on major plot failures or places where characters and themes seemed totally out of place. They're two hours long because they had two hours worth of material to work with. They're as long as they needed to be to make a point and move on.

    My advice to anyone wanting to be a YouTube critic of a show like RWBY is to follow the model created by SFDebris. Make smaller individual episodes that act both as a summary of events and as a critique of their failings. He doesn't look for minor animation errors or uses director commentary as a club to try and beat the show with. SFDebris is concise and most importantly of all he's funny, which might be a tall order for FMF.
     
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