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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • DarthDakka said:
    Last I checked the past Volume's weren't entirely cover-accurate.
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    rali56 said:
    Since when were covers indicative of anything?
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    Since always. And just because the covers don't tell us literally exactly what will happen in a volume that doesn't mean they should just be dismissed. Volume 1 didn't really have a proper cover since everything was so new back then. Volume 2 was similarly sparse but did show Ruby as well as Mercury, Emerald and Cinder. All of whom had important roles to play that volume, even if it was mostly setup. Volume 3 was still not full movie/anime cover yet but it shows Team RWBY in the Vytal Festival Arena, and both played an integral part in that volume. In Volume 4 we started going full anime style though still low on foreshadowing but we do see the scattered members of Team RWBY being separated from Ruby, who is traveling along with the remnants of Team JNPR.

    Then the Volume 5 cover shows Team RWBY standing together (as they will at the end of the volume, along with joining together in pieces over the course of the volume) along with Qrow standing next to Oscar (with those two forming a power couple during the volume, both in planning and fighting) and it puts a lot of emphasis on Raven and Cinder in the background with mirrored positions (and a big chunk of the volume is devoted to those two, who have a big dramatic fight in the finale, are both revealed to be Maidens and are shown to be very similar in ways that make Raven uncomfortable with herself).

    Look, I don't think I'm making some crazy out-there prediction when I say that if a humanoid satanic looking Grimm is getting a big portion of the volume poster dedicated to itself then its probably going to play a pretty big role in this volume. Right? That's not a controversial statement is it? I mean a big chunk of the poster is also dedicated to Ozpin and Oscar, is anyone seriously going to bet against me if I suggest that the Volume will likely spend some time to focus on Oscar's role as Ozpin's successor and how that affects him?
     
    Mook said:
    Since always. And just because the covers don't tell us literally exactly what will happen in a volume that doesn't mean they should just be dismissed. Volume 1 didn't really have a proper cover since everything was so new back then. Volume 2 was similarly sparse but did show Ruby as well as Mercury, Emerald and Cinder. All of whom had important roles to play that volume, even if it was mostly setup. Volume 3 was still not full movie/anime cover yet but it shows Team RWBY in the Vytal Festival Arena, and both played an integral part in that volume. In Volume 4 we started going full anime style though still low on foreshadowing but we do see the scattered members of Team RWBY being separated from Ruby, who is traveling along with the remnants of Team JNPR.

    Then the Volume 5 cover shows Team RWBY standing together (as they will at the end of the volume, along with joining together in pieces over the course of the volume) along with Qrow standing next to Oscar (with those two forming a power couple during the volume, both in planning and fighting) and it puts a lot of emphasis on Raven and Cinder in the background with mirrored positions (and a big chunk of the volume is devoted to those two, who have a big dramatic fight in the finale, are both revealed to be Maidens and are shown to be very similar in ways that make Raven uncomfortable with herself).

    Look, I don't think I'm making some crazy out-there prediction when I say that if a humanoid satanic looking Grimm is getting a big portion of the volume poster dedicated to itself then its probably going to play a pretty big role in this volume. Right? That's not a controversial statement is it? I mean a big chunk of the poster is also dedicated to Ozpin and Oscar, is anyone seriously going to bet against me if I suggest that the Volume will likely spend some time to focus on Oscar's role as Ozpin's successor and how that affects him?
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    I say we take the poster with a grain of salt.

    I'm hyped for the Grimm-humanoid figure and the mysterious person that may be either Cinder or Summer, but at the same time, I'm keeping my enthusiasm at arm's reach.
     
    So, here's my thoughts on the Volume 6 poster.

    Well the art work and design is nice; but then that also applies to all the posters we've gotten so far.

    The Grimm in the corner looks very fearsome - I hope it doesn't turn out to be quite the disappointment that the Drama Lama was. Personally, I think it's a tweaked version of the manticore Grimm design Rooserteeth teased.

    Some people have pointed out how JNR not being on the cover means that we'll be seeing less of them this Volume. While I kind of hope that'll be true, I'd also point out that JNPR wasn't in any of the posters beside Volume 4's and they still got a fair amount of story focus in the other Volumes. And I'm not saying that because I dislike anyone on Team JNR, I just feel that RWBY needs more screen time to work through their issues and get back to being a team again.

    As for the expression and position of the various characters of Team RWBY, I've seen quite a few people make a big deal out of that. Such as Ruby being in the front being evidence of Roosterteth's claimed commitment to actually giving her a roll more befitting of the main character and not one that could easily be likened to a mascot for the show.

    The glaring problem with this theory is that Ruby was in a similar position and prominence on every Volume poster so far. The only exception being Volume 1's where, ironically, I'd say she had the biggest role in all the Volumes so far.

    As for Ozpin and Oscar being there and being shown back to back, I'd say that maybe it could refer to some sort of conflict between then, possibly over some of Ozpin's secrets. Of course, given previous Volumes it's more then possible that, as with the expressions of the other characters, this is just myself and the RWBY fandom over-analyzing things and generally putting more time and thought into it then Rooserteeth itself probably did.

    And as for Cinder's appearance- and yes, that is Cinder. Honestly, I'm not sure who bemuses me the most. People who are surprised that she's not dead or the people making up convoluted theories about how it's really Penny/Pyrrha/Summer in Cinder's body or something.

    To start with, I and many other people thought from the get-go that Cinder wasn't dead for good. We've seen this game played before and know the rules. The fact that Rooserteeth continuously dodged around saying that Cinder was dead only all but confirmed it.

    As for the idea that someone will be possessing Cinder, it's nonsense. We've been told repeatedly by Rooserteeth that Summer, Penny and Pyrrha are dead and gone for good. Plus the idea is just really absurd and it's not like we really need more characters in this show right now.

    Now, as for my thoughts about Rooserteeth showing that Cinder will be back right out the gate, I'm undecided. On the one hand, I feel that this is Rooserteeth trying to damage control after Volume 5 were we got a ton of 'reveals' that we already knew about. On the other hand, I feel like it's almost an over-correction.

    As for Cinder's role in this Volume, I hope we get a scene were Salem rightfully berates Cinder for her stupidity in the last Volume.

    Likewise, an idea of my own that I really like- and one that other people have had- is that the Grimm in Cinder's body has spread in order to keep her alive after her defeat at Raven's hands. It's a nice consequence of her failure and will have repercussions throughout the rest of the story. Cinder is now more vulnerable- as seen in V5, Aura won't protect her Grimm bits- and every injure or defeat carriers with it the consequences of her losing more of her humanity. All and all a great way to show how her lust for power and control have quite literally consumed her.

    Plus it'd be a great way to force some must-needed character development and real personality from Cinder. Though it might be too little to late to save her as an interesting villain. And before anyone points out V4 to me, I'd remind you that any growth Cinder had was minimalist at best and almost completely ditched during the battle of Haven. We still have no reason why she desires power badly enough to team up with Salem, or what she intends to do with that power once she obtained it. Frankly, I think RT would have been better served by hinting at her background in V2 or giving more details in V3.

    Oh and to backtrack a little: I suspect that JNR will either stay in Mistral for some reason, or that they and Team RWBY will get separated at some point in the journey to Atlas.

    Given how Sun's voice actor stated that he'd be getting a bigger role this Volume, I suspect that we'll be getting to Atlas via Vaccole. Which allows Sun to play the role as a guide and for RT to maybe do a bit of damage control about how Sun became an annoying comic relief character and just someone for Blake to bounce off of for the past two Volumes. Getting back to team RWBY, I expect that they'll either get separated from the main group by an unexpected Grimm attack or a sandstorm. The later is something we know Vacuole is infamous for- see the World of Remnant game back from V2 or the excuse given to hide the Warrior King's powers.

    So RWBY gets split up from the rest of the group, we get an episode or three focused on just them. Then have RWBY meet up with the rest of the group in a village or something.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    onestly, I'm not sure who bemuses me the most. People who are surprised that she's not dead or the people making up convoluted theories about how it's really Penny/Pyrrha/Summer in Cinder's body or something.

    To start with, I and many other people thought from the get-go that Cinder wasn't dead for good. We've seen this game played before and know the rules. The fact that Rooserteeth continuously dodged around saying that Cinder was dead only all but confirmed it.
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    To be fair Roosterteeth has actually had dropping villains off a cliff without finding a body kill them for real, I think twice at this point in Red vs Blue.
     
    Nobody said:
    To be fair Roosterteeth has actually had dropping villains off a cliff without finding a body kill them for real, I think twice at this point in Red vs Blue.
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    Considering I stopped watching Red vs Blue years ago- as I got bored with it and felt that RT was busy sitting on their laurels instead of doing something new- that's a bit surprising to me. Still, an exception doesn't disprove the rule.

    ...that and I suspected they did it to give them a way to bring the characters back if they wanted to.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    ...that and I suspected they did it to give them a way to bring the characters back if they wanted to.
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    A few seasons later they had another villain recover the armor the guy was wearing when he was dropped off the cliff into the ocean below and a guy who worked for that villain mentioned he ultimately drowned. The other had another character pick up and use the weapon he had been using that needed its previous wielder to die for someone new to be able to use it.
     
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    I sort of hope it becomes a running gag where Cinder keeps failing in the end and gets more and more of her body replaced by Grimm parts.
     
    Question- about how long a period does a season come out after? Thinking about getting a First membership and wondering how long that'd be for.
     
    Yeah, I dunno if I actually... care, about the Grimm? You can make them as big and dangerous as you like, I still find it hard to be invested in them as villains by themselves without moral agency. They're a function of the setting, closer to a natural disaster with limbs. Which, you know, isn't alone a problem, just that I hope they focus on the antagonists that are people, and let the monsters be an extension of the drama those characters create.

    Also, the magic and ancient history and worldbuilding bores me to tears. The characters are what matter to me- I hope they focus on them.
     
    Emma said:
    Yeah, I dunno if I actually... care, about the Grimm? You can make them as big and dangerous as you like, I still find it hard to be invested in them as villains by themselves without moral agency. They're a function of the setting, closer to a natural disaster with limbs. Which, you know, isn't alone a problem, just that I hope they focus on the antagonists that are people, and let the monsters be an extension of the drama those characters create.

    Also, the magic and ancient history and worldbuilding bores me to tears. The characters are what matter to me- I hope they focus on them.
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    Same more or less. Though I admire the simplicity of the Grimm's role. Too many stories now try too hard to make the monesters 'human' or 'sympathtic'-see for example how vampires and werewolves were portrayed as inhuman abominations in earlier works.

    As for the human antagonists-and whatever the heck Salem is- I feel that RT has kind of waited too long for them. See, in the early Volumes having the villain being mysterious worked because they were mostly out of focus. But once Volumes 4 and 5 rolled around, not only had time passed but we got more time with the villains. But what do we know about them really?

    Salem:
    don't even know if she's an evolved Grimm or some sort of modified human. She wants to seemingly destroy humanity and the faunus and obtain the Relics of Power because reasons.

    Cinder:
    wants to become feared and powerful because Reasons. We don't know what she's do with that power-build an empire? Just burn everything to ash? Or anything about her past or how she encountered Salem.

    Emerald and Mercury:
    the street rat thief and the would-be assassin from an abusive home. Not really sure why they're sticking with Cinder, given the qualms they've been shown having. 'Stick with me, and you'll never go hungry again!' only goes so far. Unless Emerald is really just that thirsty for Cinder.

    Tyrian:
    Discount Joker who sees Salem as a Goddess because he crazy.

    Watts:
    Disgraced Atleasian scientist. Not sure why he joined Salem besides perhaps revenge and the chance to do Mad Science.

    Hazel:
    If we take Ozpin's story about his sister at face value, he joined the side that killed his sister. So dumb.

    Leo:
    Switched sides out of fear.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    the street rat thief and the would-be assassin from an abusive home. Not really sure why they're sticking with Cinder, given the qualms they've been shown having. 'Stick with me, and you'll never go hungry again!' only goes so far. Unless Emerald is really just that thirsty for Cinder.
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    And we never do find out what's in it for Mercury.
     
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    Emma said:
    But, like, is that really engaging as character traits?

    I agree with @DarthDakka that a lot of the antagonists are still kinda underwhelming, but they can grow in ways that actually matter. The grimm can become more powerful or get weirder designs or whatever, but none of that makes them interesting.
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    No, it is not an engaging character trait if the character in question isn't charismatic enough to carry it.

    Tython82 said:


    Let the games begin
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    Huh, no opinion yet. I'd need to read the first chapter if I'm gonna make any actual comment on the art. I liked the first one that was done by Shirow Miwa though so hopefully this is good.
     
    Emma said:
    Also, the magic and ancient history and worldbuilding bores me to tears. The characters are what matter to me- I hope they focus on them.
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    I like world building. But world building has to be in service of the story.

    Like. Some of the most extensive world-building I've done for fics was essentially visualizing and filling in characters and creatures and vehicles that were going to show up in the very next chapter which I then formatted and posted as a sort of in universe report for people who were interested.

    But the thing is. It was interesting because it complimented the characters and story.

    RWBY's world building fails at this because RWBY's world building is mostly constructed on a foundation of 'wouldn't it be cool' rather than either a theme or a plot or a character journey.

    Which is kind of endemic of Monty Om. A guy who I respected for his work ethic. But that same work ethic meant he never stopped to process or learn from what he'd just done.
     
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    [Info] NYCC RWBY summaries
  • Informational
    • A post about the NYCC events.


    RWBY analysis

    NYCC CRWBY Interview Summary

    Barbara, Kerry, Gray, Miles and Lindsay gave an interview at New York Comic Con that gave us more details about Volume 6 and gen:lock. They talked about a lot of other things that I didn't write down here too, but I only wrote down what I thought was interesting. I watched the live stream here.
    • They only did one character short this year to focus more time and energy on the show itself.
    • Volume 6 might show some of the repercussions of the end of Volume 5 in regards of the choices Adam made and the White Fang as some issues and tensions are still unsolved.
    • Barbara's favourite scene is the confrontation between Raven and Yang because it was one of the best fight scenes that didn't have any actual physical fighting.
    • Miles called Jaune a little string bean boy. My heart melted.
    • They worked a lot on their writing schedule this year, starting to write Volume 6 one week after the Volume 5 finale aired. That gave them time to reflect more on what went well in previous Volumes and what they could improve on, so Miles and Kerry are confident that Volume 6 is the best that it could be.
    • One thing they tried to always remember is to have a sense of constantly moving forward in Volume 6, which means new places, new faces, new monsters, new things almost every episode and not just being in one house for a long time. Volume 6 is supposed to feel like a journey.
    • Other than Volume 4 Volume 6 isn't supposed to jump around a lot of different storylines but follow one group on this crazy roller coaster across the continent that the journey to Atlas will be.
    • Lindsay said "Expect the unexpected."
    • Barbara said Volume 6 will play with some new themes that haven't been explored on the show before and that she thinks people are really gonna love that, Miles and Kerry giggled a lot during this.
    • Gray described gen:lock as a summer SciFic action movie that just happens to be animated.
    • There will be four character introduction teasers for gen:lock, three of them have been release yet.
    • gen:lock has been pitched two and a half years ago and a lot of things that were then supposed to be a cautionary dystopian what-if-scenario are now closer to reality than ever imagined back then.
    • Season 1 of gen:lock will focus on the theme of how to endure tough times and still make a positive change. Season 2, if it happens, will explore how the other fractions of that cultural war work.
    • The gen:lock cast is interested in interacting with the RT community, but they're just really, really busy, but they're all very supportive of the show.
    • Cammie MacCloud is 17 and the youngest member of the gen:lock team, the average age reign of the cast is in their early 20s.
    • RWBY Chibi Volume 4 kinda got confirmed.
    Here you all go.
     
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