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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Xalgeon said:
    Why do you think this? These types of villains are my favourite.
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    Your favorite and a lot of other people's too. But they gotta be done well, and if he is intended to be that kind of villain, then they did not do a good job of that. But that's beside the point, because Adam doesn't really give me that vibe in this short? I agree with the sentiment that he seems more like a guy that was always kind of a fuck, but was less open about it because he didn't have any clout yet.
     
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    Xalgeon said:
    Why do you think this? These types of villains are my favourite.
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    Those types of villains ARE great. It's trying to portray Adam as that kind of villain that's terrible. It implies we're supposed to see Adam as someone who came in with the best of intentions but got swept up in it all. That, in some small way, we're supposed to empathize with his plight. That's garbage.

    And keep in mind, I ain't even care if he murders humans. That is actually one thing I'm 100% on board with. It's his dumb, petty personality that makes him 100% fun and irredeemable to me, and if there's even a hint that they're going to make his death anything less than an unqualified good thing, I'll be annoyed as hell.
     
    From the short, I see Adam as already being the violent type from the get-go. It's just that the way I see it, he was kinda hiding it before, and being in the White Fang simply brought it out of him. Even Sienna had some restraint compared to him.
     
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    WhoAmEye said:
    Adam didn't have a descent from grace. I mean this trailer kinda proved he's always been the violent fanatic type from the start, so any fall from grace he had is going to be - if revealed in future backstory snippets - a pretty frickin quick fall.
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    Pretty much. Remember what Blake said? "First it was self-defense, then it was accidents, then it was justice." Adam was always coming up with bullsh*t excuses for what he did, and this was just a glimpse through some of the different stages of that.
     
    Also FlyntOfRWBY's I believe, translated the lyrics from his song, wow, what an ego!
    I doubt he was ever loyal to Ghira or Sienna, or anyone but himself.
     
    Zam said:
    translated
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    I think you mean "transcribed," but cool! And yeah, it's pretty plain to see that Adam was always a self-centered bastard who only ever did anything for his own sake. It's just that being seen as a hero by the White Fang and a terror to the humans stroked his ego. His brutal, sadistic behavior was always encouraged and rewarded, so of course he just kept taking it further and further, and giving fewer and fewer excuses. Blake was just the first one to realize what was happening and where this was going.
     
    Leingod said:
    Blake was just the first one to realize what was happening and where this was going.
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    That's probably true, but damn, I need her to just stomp his nuts. Throw him off the fucking roof right into the garbage can. Give him the most undignified, unhappy ends possible. And in my dream a dream she'd also kill a human at the same time to make clear that it's not his murdering racists that's the problem, it's just him.

    Her nothin-personnel move against him was almost what I wanted, but she needs something more.
     
    Leingod said:
    I think you mean "transcribed," but cool! And yeah, it's pretty plain to see that Adam was always a self-centered bastard who only ever did anything for his own sake. It's just that being seen as a hero by the White Fang and a terror to the humans stroked his ego. His brutal, sadistic behavior was always encouraged and rewarded, so of course he just kept taking it further and further, and giving fewer and fewer excuses. Blake was just the first one to realize what was happening and where this was going.
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    Yeah that's how I see it. And as pointed out earlier he is strong enough that he should never have needed to kill the mooks he fought, heck he was blatantly about to execute a helpless defeated enemy before Sienna happened to interrupt him.

    One thing I really liked was that the Short properly portrayed him as an abuser, gaslighting his victim so that she feels bad for calling him out on genuinely bad things that he's doing.
     
    Q99 said:
    Hm, between him and Raven, wearing a mask seems strongly associated with being a giant tool.
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    She, at least, has a fig leaf of an excuse - she doesn't/didn't want to out herself as the Spring Maiden, and the mask helps her keep that hidden.

    She might be a giant tool - but Adam? Adam is the entire fucking hardware store.
     
    Just watched Adam's character short, and I really think the moment where he saved Ghira was the turning point for Adam. While Adam seemed angry, he did seem to be attempting to leave the humans alive, up he had to kill to save Ghira. If Ghira had treated it as a tragic but necessary event - given it the gravity it deserved without condemning it - then Adam might not have become as evil as he did. Ghira would have retained some degree of Adam's respect, as well as the respect of the White Fang as a whole. Instead, Ghira - probably not thinking straight given he nearly died - made the incredibly poor decision to immediately criticism Adam, losing his and the WFs respect, while allowing Sienna an opening to encourage Adam's worst qualities. So he found he liked it, and kept going farther and farther down that path.

    Now, Adam likely still would have been an angry violent person regardless of what happened, but I could see him not getting genocidal if this moment had gone differently. But only that moment. After that first kill was encouraged, I don't think he could get turned around.
     
    The Narrator said:
    The Grimm mask thing was kind of a dead giveaway. He associates himself with and emulates omnicidal monsters.
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    Nah man. It's a lot simpler than that. He just wants to look like a totally sick badass that stays up past bedtime. Don't try to get me to take him seriously- he's way less fun like that.

    Also, omnicidal? Like- I admit I'm not super bothered one way or the other with Grimm, but wasn't there at least some vague mention how they don't usually attack animals? I ain't ever see em go out of their way to kill vegetation or basically anything that isn't people or people-adjacent, either.
     
    Barnaby said:
    Nah man. It's a lot simpler than that. He just wants to look like a totally sick badass that stays up past bedtime. Don't try to get me to take him seriously- he's way less fun like that.

    Also, omnicidal? Like- I admit I'm not super bothered one way or the other with Grimm, but wasn't there at least some vague mention how they don't usually attack animals? I ain't ever see em go out of their way to kill vegetation or basically anything that isn't people or people-adjacent, either.
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    Given that Omnicide refers to the destruction of the human species and omnicidal refers to of or relating to omnicide that they don't usually attack plants or animals is rather inmaterial.
     
    Hydroplatypus said:
    Just watched Adam's character short, and I really think the moment where he saved Ghira was the turning point for Adam. While Adam seemed angry, he did seem to be attempting to leave the humans alive, up he had to kill to save Ghira. If Ghira had treated it as a tragic but necessary event - given it the gravity it deserved without condemning it - then Adam might not have become as evil as he did. Ghira would have retained some degree of Adam's respect, as well as the respect of the White Fang as a whole. Instead, Ghira - probably not thinking straight given he nearly died - made the incredibly poor decision to immediately criticism Adam, losing his and the WFs respect, while allowing Sienna an opening to encourage Adam's worst qualities. So he found he liked it, and kept going farther and farther down that path.

    Now, Adam likely still would have been an angry violent person regardless of what happened, but I could see him not getting genocidal if this moment had gone differently. But only that moment. After that first kill was encouraged, I don't think he could get turned around.
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    I think that's a highly inaccurate read on the situation.

    Adam didn't have to kill that guy. That guy was a complete mook. Adam could have easily stopped him just by shooting his sword (handle first) at him like he did against the other KKK-wannabes. He could have rushed in with his super speed and knocked him down. Heck Adam could have just shot him with his gun and the guy would probably just have been knocked unconscious instead of being killed, thanks to Aura. The only reason that guy died was because Adam chose to use his Semblance to unleash a single overpowered attack that broke the guy's Aura and kept going through his flesh.

    If that was deliberate malice on Adam's part or him getting carried away is uncertain. But Ghira scolding him was not the problem in that situation. It was Sienna encouraging him. Praising him. He killed a man in cold blood and got cheered for it. And that made him want more. If Ghira made a mistake in this situation its that he didn't just knock those people down himself and then try to talk with them after the fight was over, when Adam killed that guy the situation was already beyond salvaging because Ghira could not encourage that sort of behavior but he had already lost to much credibility to reel Adam in.

    But the one who really fucked up in regards to Adam is Sienna, who was to focused on taking down Ghira and advancing her own goals to notice the troubling aspects of Adam's behavior, or to consider the kind of radicalism she's encouraging by cheering her people on for murdering people who are so weak that they can be dealt with without going that far. That's almost certainly a big part of why she had her guard down when Adam killed her, she never truly understood what kind of person he was, and didn't see his inevitable betrayal (and how far he would take it) coming.
     
    Mook said:
    I think that's a highly inaccurate read on the situation.

    Adam didn't have to kill that guy. That guy was a complete mook. Adam could have easily stopped him just by shooting his sword (handle first) at him like he did against the other KKK-wannabes. He could have rushed in with his super speed and knocked him down. Heck Adam could have just shot him with his gun and the guy would probably just have been knocked unconscious instead of being killed, thanks to Aura. The only reason that guy died was because Adam chose to use his Semblance to unleash a single overpowered attack that broke the guy's Aura and kept going through his flesh.

    If that was deliberate malice on Adam's part or him getting carried away is uncertain. But Ghira scolding him was not the problem in that situation. It was Sienna encouraging him. Praising him. He killed a man in cold blood and got cheered for it. And that made him want more. If Ghira made a mistake in this situation its that he didn't just knock those people down himself and then try to talk with them after the fight was over, when Adam killed that guy the situation was already beyond salvaging because Ghira could not encourage that sort of behavior but he had already lost to much credibility to reel Adam in.

    But the one who really fucked up in regards to Adam is Sienna, who was to focused on taking down Ghira and advancing her own goals to notice the troubling aspects of Adam's behavior, or to consider the kind of radicalism she's encouraging by cheering her people on for murdering people who are so weak that they can be dealt with without going that far. That's almost certainly a big part of why she had her guard down when Adam killed her, she never truly understood what kind of person he was, and didn't see his inevitable betrayal (and how far he would take it) coming.
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    I feel like that's too negative a read of the situation on Sienna in my eyes, given Adam's smirking and what you noted about his speed and gun (Though if I am being charitable he may have freaked out and acted on impulse) but Ghira was leaning on Sienna and his Aura was either broken or near breaking while that guy charged and shot at him. I feel there's a reason Sienna said Adam saved Ghira's life even if it could be read as political. Plus, as an aside, we see RWBY hurling WF mooks to their deaths so I am honestly not that bothered by the wannabe KKK getting mulched, unless we're going to unpack what it means when RWBY also cause death, if perhaps more indirectly.

    Honestly, I don't think anyone came across as ideal in that situation, Ghira pleading with people shooting at him and getting shot to potentially the point f self endangerment as his people have to cower behind cover kind of demonstrates why his methods were unpopular, even if this isn't the norm it feels like kind of a microcosm of the issues with his approach. Similarly though, Sienna utilized Adam, relying on him rather than handling the situation herself and, as you noted, not showing an understanding of his character, fully buying into his claims of doing all he did for the Faunus and treating him as a valuable ally. And Adam is, well prone to violence, enjoys being stronger than others and has no real issue killing people.
     
    Violation of Rule 4 - Disruptive conduct (deleting a post and accusing a replier of lying/manufacturing the quote)
    I didn't post anything like that. Why would you lie that I said that?
     
    Delphisage said:
    I didn't post anything like that. Why would you lie that I said that?
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    Please, do us all a favour, and don't be like that. Moderators apparently can see edits, deleted posts, and the like, so if you really want them brought in, go for it. But, the point's already been made. There's a fanfic thread where you can discuss fanfics, the creation of fanfics, etc.
     
    Since they didn't delete the post being quoted in that link I think they might just be being a shit rather than attempting any actual deceit.
     
    Welp RWBY still seems on the 'only real solution to racism is being a model minority that is so good Jesus will tell you to chill' thing. When getting ambushed by the KKK with them literally shooting people in the face, fighting back is something only bad guys do and lethal self defence against them is even worse, it makes you Adam.
     
    Tasrill said:
    lethal self defence against them is even worse
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    Yeah, because they're mooks with handguns. They're no threat at all to anyone except the other mooks, and Adam demonstrated literally seconds ago that he could easily and trivially take them out without killing them at no threat to himself. It would have been exactly as easy to do what he did literally seconds ago and just launch his scabbard or just shoot the guy with it - we saw literally seconds ago that both options can take them out without killing them - but instead he says, "Fuck it, he dies" and uses his Semblance. If you were easily and safely taking out a bunch of guys with a nightstick or taser or something, and then you suddenly decide "Fuck it" and gun the last guy down in cold blood even though what you were doing was working just fine and nothing was stopping you from continuing to do it? That's suddenly a lot iffier, especially when you do it from behind at a guy who was pretty much just brainlessly plugging away at a truck that showed no signs of caring.

    Like, if Adam hadn't done that last part, I'd be right with you that Ghira was being a total tool. But he did, and he didn't need to, he wasn't even being attacked by that point so you can't really argue it's the heat of the moment, he'd already demonstrated he could rip through them like tissue paper without using lethal force so you can't argue necessity, he pretty much just did it because he wanted to, and that really isn't an attitude Sienna should have been praising him for.

    Like, unless he's been lead to believe a gun has kryptonite bullets, it's not "lethal self-defense" if Superman murders a guy for shooting at him, because he's Superman. He's proved a thousand times over that a guy shooting at him presents exactly zero threat.
     
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