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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Ugh. I just said that I'm fine with the whole "silver eyes were foreshadowed as important" aspect. The PROBLEM was making them into explicit superpowers when their primary trope association is supposed to be super-genetics. How is complaining about RT getting fictional conventions wrong so hard to understand or sympatize with?
     
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    SpeckofStardust said:
    Arnt those basically the same thing?
    I mean hell even super man had superpowers because of his genetics (you know by being an alien).
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    The main difference is that Ruby's powers were supposedly hinted at just being of the faster and stronger then everyone else without said genetics not the ability to project eye beams.

    Unless it is like DBS in which you are supposed to contain that energy in your body and thus use it to give yourself a superpowered boost and that Ruby was just using it incorrectly.
     
    To be honest the simplest solution would given the maidens power were specifically mentioned as being connected to the wizard who was later revealed to be Ozpin is simply have silver eyes being connected to the gods which would also tie into the ancient greek mythology of such eyes having divine connections.
     
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    Tython82 said:
    The main difference is that Ruby's powers were supposedly hinted at just being of the faster and stronger then everyone else without said genetics not the ability to project eye beams.

    Unless it is like DBS in which you are supposed to contain that energy in your body and thus use it to give yourself a superpowered boost and that Ruby was just using it incorrectly.
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    Your going to have to cite where that was explicitly stated. Last I checked they where hinted at being rare, nothing more. And later on after they where shown to do something they where mention (by legend no less) to be specifically talented at fighting Grim, and, Mentioned by Salem herself countering the power of Maidens.
    We see ruby use it twice. Both times against somebody with the power of a maiden.
    While a assumption can be made that she was skipped ahead and could hold her own because her eyes granted her a power boast, their isn't a reason why she could have simply been able to do so though hard work and skill alone.
     
    Delphisage said:
    Ugh. I just said that I'm fine with the whole "silver eyes were foreshadowed as important" aspect. The PROBLEM was making them into explicit superpowers when their primary trope association is supposed to be super-genetics. How is complaining about RT getting fictional conventions wrong so hard to understand or sympatize with?
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    Tython82 said:
    The main difference is that Ruby's powers were supposedly hinted at just being of the faster and stronger then everyone else without said genetics not the ability to project eye beams.
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    A bit like what SpeckofStardust said, I don't really see how that was indicated at all. Like, all I took from it was "OK, here eyes are special maybe? Guess I'll see what that means eventually" and then eventually I did.
     
    Usually with Super Genetics from a story perspective it's the strength/speed/stamina or just an upgraded form of there in born powers such as Ruby's speed unless specifically stated and since Eye beams that could freeze grimm were never hinted I assumed as much which yes I know the analogy but you got to admit the eye beam that kills grimm or turns them to stone was the last thought in anyones head.
     
    Tython82 said:
    Usually with Super Genetics from a story perspective it's the strength/speed/stamina or just an upgraded form of there in born powers such as Ruby's speed unless specifically stated and since Eye beams that could freeze grimm were never hinted I assumed as much which yes I know the analogy but you got to admit the eye beam that kills grimm or turns them to stone was the last thought in anyones head.
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    Yeah I grasp you said that but I can't actually think of nay examples of what you're describing.
     
    The Adam short is up but RT dislike the sharing of unlisted links so here is my reaction to the trailer:
    OK,

    1, the fight scenes were freaking lit!

    2, Adam is a garbage guy and always was, he clearly relishes in violence and holding power over others even in the early days, and with his line about how he's still 'got' Blake after screwing with her head, yeah, he's gross.

    3, Sienna Khan is awesome, and based on her sticking by Ghira when they were under attack, stopping Adam from murdering a hapless security guard for fun and the general tone and smile she had when noting he'd likely be standing beside her. Especially when contrasted against Adam's hidden smirk, I think she genuinely believed Adam acted for the best of Faunus and was trying to be supportive, not seeing what was underneath his action.

    4, Adam staggering away in failure was fantastic.

    5, Hah, yes, headcanon confirmed, human villages attacking Faunus just for existing, called it!
     
    I mean, to be fair, although Adam's a dick, I didn't see him do anything wrong in that trailer, it's only later context that made the talk with Blake a bit skeevy, if we didn't know he was abusive, that could've been a discussion between friends that got heated and he apologized when he realised that.

    It makes me realise, we only know him through Blake's narration and later, Yang's nightmares, we've never seen his or Sienna's side of the story.

    To a preacher, even a byronic hero can be a monster, remember that.
     
    Also, someone noted me how the human attack looked like an ambush, they're basically a KKK style lynch mob it seems.

    Like, the WF trucks were on the road and all the humans were in the woods, they were ambushing the faunus. If this was just a chance encounter they'd have been on the road as well, not hiding in the woods with tons of ammo. If they'd just traveled on the road they'd have been well, on the road rather than hidden in the woods with a lot of ammo

    Xalgeon said:
    I mean, to be fair, although Adam's a dick, I didn't see him do anything wrong in that trailer, it's only later context that made the talk with Blake a bit skeevy, if we didn't know he was abusive, that could've been a discussion between friends that got heated and he apologized when he realised that.

    It makes me realise, we only know him through Blake's narration and later, Yang's nightmares, we've never seen his or Sienna's side of the story.

    To a preacher, even a byronic hero can be a monster, remember that.
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    You do recall him murdering Sienna to steal her position right? and wanting to mass murder civilians in the Black trailer?
     
    Zam said:
    Also, someone noted me how the human attack looked like an ambush, they're basically a KKK style lynch mob it seems.

    Like, the WF trucks were on the road and all the humans were in the woods, they were ambushing the faunus. If this was just a chance encounter they'd have been on the road as well, not hiding in the woods with tons of ammo. If they'd just traveled on the road they'd have been well, on the road rather than hidden in the woods with a lot of ammo


    You do recall him murdering Sienna to steal her position right? and wanting to mass murder civilians in the Black trailer?
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    Yes, that's why I said later Context, for all we know, he could go mad after the Adam Trailer.
     
    Xalgeon said:
    I mean, to be fair, although Adam's a dick, I didn't see him do anything wrong in that trailer, it's only later context that made the talk with Blake a bit skeevy, if we didn't know he was abusive, that could've been a discussion between friends that got heated and he apologized when he realised that.

    It makes me realise, we only know him through Blake's narration and later, Yang's nightmares, we've never seen his or Sienna's side of the story.

    To a preacher, even a byronic hero can be a monster, remember that.
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    I'm surprised that the short did a decent job of telling why Adam is the way he is

    Adam getting shit for saving their asses is ayy lmao tier
     
    Xalgeon said:
    It makes me realise, we only know him through Blake's narration and later, Yang's nightmares, we've never seen his or Sienna's side of the story.

    To a preacher, even a byronic hero can be a monster, remember that.
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    Okay but actually I don't care. I'm with Zam on this one- he kills and obsesses over particular women. I don't want to understand him, unless it's to provide even further context for why I can hate him more. And it's a shame too- if he were just a little different I'd totally root for a straight-up murderer revolutionary. I'm already on record saying I'd love if RWBY was more just bisexual girls and lesbians shooting misogynists, racists, and the rich.

    All I got from this trailer was a guy who was born talented but unappreciated, then chose infamy when being important and liked and doing the right thing became too hard. Selling this as some kind of fall from grace or slow descent into darkness is... well, bad. He was always a self-important prick, it was just easier for him to hide starting out.

    Like, him trying to justify himself to Blake, saying murdering those people was "an accident"? I don't know if they want me to think he's engaging in tragic self-deception or that he's being manipulative. I suspect it's the former with everything setting him up, but I can really only appreciate him as a character if it's the latter. That Adam didn't just own up to it or that Blake didn't just push him off the roof makes them both look worse.

    And finally... the usual RWBY fighting feels really weird and even a bit inappropriate for the tone they're trying to go for with the WF. Like, it shouldn't be fast or stylish, doubly so when they're fighting non-robots. Slow, exhausting, bloody, and painful aren't really this show's thing but it's kinda necessary to sell the struggle they're in. People died like a puff of air and squirt of red. I really needed an action moment that was more weighty and deliberate.
     
    Barnaby said:
    And finally... the usual RWBY fighting feels really weird and even a bit inappropriate for the tone they're trying to go for with the WF. Like, it shouldn't be fast or stylish, doubly so when they're fighting non-robots. Slow, exhausting, bloody, and painful aren't really this show's thing but it's kinda necessary to sell the struggle they're in. People died like a puff of air and squirt of red. I really needed an action moment that was more weighty and deliberate.
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    On one hand, I kind of agree with you; the violence and brutality should have been cranked up by a lot.

    On the other, the sheer amount of salt actually slowing down the combat in the trailer would probably generate is.... no.

    On another person's hand, salt's gonna be generated anyway so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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    StellarSeeker said:
    On the other, the sheer amount of salt actually slowing down the combat in the trailer would probably generate is.... no.
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    Shrug.

    I can only speak for myself when I say I really wish Sienna hadn't been fucking mugging for the camera with that smirk of hers when they were fighting SDC robots. Is salt really worse than a confusing tone?
     
    I feel like there's a time for both fast paced flashy fights and slow brutal fights, some parts of the short could have been slowed down a bit. Oh well. That's what fanfiction is for.
     
    Barnaby said:
    Like, him trying to justify himself to Blake, saying murdering those people was "an accident"? I don't know if they want me to think he's engaging in tragic self-deception or that he's being manipulative. I suspect it's the former with everything setting him up, but I can really only appreciate him as a character if it's the latter. That Adam didn't just own up to it or that Blake didn't just push him off the roof makes them both look worse.
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    I think given all his smirking when fighting and such he was in no way self deceptive and was instead just playing mind games with Blake to keep her under his thumb. Don't really see how Blake not pushing the mentor/abuser who was in her mind practically the only family she had left and whom she thought was acting for the good of their people off a roof reflect badly on her.
     
    Xalgeon said:
    I didn't see him do anything wrong in that trailer
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    Even without later context he was being a manipulative cunt to Blake. Guilting her with strawmanning, putting words in her mouth, and emphasising that the importance was "I get scared when you don't believe in me." Narcissistic much?
    Oh, and, yknow, casual murder of a bunch of people. He's fully capable of KO'ing people with little effort, deflecting bullets in a way that made me think "Okay who in the RT animation department has been playing Warframe?", and generally being a skilled enough fighter that nobody short of an at least purpose trained second or third year Huntsman really stands a decent chance against him in a fight (discounting semblance bullshit. it's really hard to account for semblance bullshit). "It was an accident." Yeah, Blake was right to call him out on that. "How many more accidents will there be?" Considering using Semblance is shown to be, aside from... unlocking it? Or something? Anyways it's shown to be something you really need to put some effort into to use. Unless it's an emotionally charged one like Yang's, in which case she puts the effort in by being mad? Adam's semblance hasn't been shown to be an emotionally charged one, at any rate, and he looked calm as ever in the middle of battle.
    He chose to kill. I can't say whether the people deserved it or not (like that asshole with the pistol calling them animals), but he chose to kill. Even Sienna, the leader of the Violent Fang, presumably the person who went "Right this is going to be our home base and I want a throne room", opts for catching a gun with her ropechaindart thing and KO'ing a bunch of people.
    Barnaby said:
    And finally... the usual RWBY fighting feels really weird and even a bit inappropriate for the tone they're trying to go for with the WF. Like, it shouldn't be fast or stylish, doubly so when they're fighting non-robots. Slow, exhausting, bloody, and painful aren't really this show's thing but it's kinda necessary to sell the struggle they're in. People died like a puff of air and squirt of red. I really needed an action moment that was more weighty and deliberate.
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    Dunno about slow exhausting bloody part, but I agree with the tone being... strangely inappropriate. Adam's prequel skills seem to have ramped up to the point where Blake probably shouldn't have been able to win that skirmish in the school courtyard.

    When it comes to scene thematics... Could play it both ways. The areas seemed too bright, too well defined, to properly convey that nitty gritty revolutionist feeling. The bright countryside, all is fine, Adam goes murderhobo on a bunch of bigots. It's a bright day, bright days mean good things. A heavily overcast day would have been more appropriate. At the same time, that this goes on in the bright day could be an attempt at 'look, it's a bright day, things should be good, but they aren't. this is happening in plain sight, good day, this isn't considered a dark thing (to the humans)'.
    Bit of the same with the hallways. The old bots looked... painfully out of place in the stark white halls of Schnee.... labs? Warehouse? Whatever. I think it was meant to be a callback, a way to show that this is the past (I mean, beyond the fact that Sienna fucking Khan is there), but some reason I doubt the ol 'picture perfect at the cost of my family' SHAUWK Schnee would let those ugly things patrol the pristine facilities his company/corporation/whatever operates in.

    Non reactionary thoughts on the trailer:
    I liked it. Adam was a cunt throughout, and while I don't really sympathise with him much, I do understand him better. I find it unfortunate that my headcanon of 'he used to be like Ghira (violence wont solve things!) but kept getting pushed and pushed and pushed until he pushed back' was (possibly?) wrong, but him staggering off in the end? Very cathartic.
    "Finally, I'll get what I deserve."
    *one biggest and most brutal asskicking of his life later*
    "Goddamnit Blake left me walking funny and I can't even brag about it."
     
    Xalgeon said:
    Why do you think this? These types of villains are my favourite.
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    Adam didn't have a descent from grace. I mean this trailer kinda proved he's always been the violent fanatic type from the start, so any fall from grace he had is going to be - if revealed in future backstory snippets - a pretty frickin quick fall.
     
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