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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • thesevenwielder said:
    where he suddenly gains a random obsession with Blake
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    He only chased her down at the end of V3, had an extended battle in an attempt to finish her off when he could have been doing an endless amount of other things at the time; as something that in part functions as a sort of paramillitary group the leader basically completely abandoned the mission to do his own thing without any sort of okay, and while talking to her is clearly furious and enraged about something that had, at this point, happened a significantly long time ago. He states that he is going to punish Blake for her "betrayal" by destroying everything she loves, using Yang as an object lesson. He also attempted to behead her. He clearly had no issues or complexes concerning her at the time and everything was fine.

    Some quotes-

    Adam: But I understand because all I want is you, Blake.

    Adam: And as I set out upon this world and deliver the justice mankind so greatly deserves, I will make it my mission to destroy everything you love.

    Adam: But not before you suffer for your betrayal, my love.

    These are things people that don't have deep-seated issues concerning Blake would say.

    Also I'm pretty sure that first quote I gave smashes your claim that he didn't have an "obsession" with her into oblivion.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Random obsession? He literally drops everything in his attack on Beacon in order to hunt her down and spends a long ass time fighting her, most of which was him bitching to her about leaving him. Also the reason he only brought three people to Haven was because, first off it was a stealth mission and having an army with him would likely have tipped off the people he was planing on killing and secondly the plan was to have 2 Maidens and Salem's other henchmen be the main force of the attack.
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    I'll toss in 'running light is actually normal for him.' The train job was two people. He might've made himself a leader, but he's actually used to working in a very small team and running off to do whatever he wants.

    This one, he expected no alert, that was handled, and as you say, the only local defenders are facing a party that even he considers OP. Cinder with half maiden power was stronger than him. Cinder, her team, Hazel, Lionheart, and Raven... military power was not lacking and local defense was supposed to be literally a non-issue, with most of it sent away, which it really was and he could confirm it was, just leaving him to bring enough people to do the physical work.

    The reinforcements that came to stop him? Literally lead by people he sent competent agents to have killed. Per his best intel, they should be dead and/or captured. Blake and Sun seeing through the initial capture-ambush and Ilia turning traitor were the keys to his defeat.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    Tell that to the poor bastards getting killed.
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    "This isn't wholesale civilian slaughter, tough break buddy, but maybe you shouldn't have gotten Ilia's parents and hundreds of Faunus others killed with your stingy safety precautions, criminally negligent mining practices and ambled off to do it again cos the courts won't punish you."

    ;)

    I jest, in part, but given what was noted, I feel like these would be the kind of targets that make the most sense.
     
    The Narrator said:
    I'm pretty sure that Weiss' dad would have been an asshole either way.
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    Indeed, he was always an abusive piece of garbage and the WF only went violent five years before canon started and I find it unlikely they were able to jump from protesters to insurgents so quickly that the Schnee suddenly lost several family friends before the WF even had time to properly get on a war footing.

    Frankly, given how quickly Weiss got over it, I just assume she was projecting on the White Fang so she could have an excuse not to blame the father she was functionally running away from who scarred her face with a supposed to lose test meant to bully her into submission and who openly admitted he didn't love his wife on her birthday.
     
    Zam said:
    Indeed, he was always an abusive piece of garbage and the WF only went violent five years before canon started and I find it unlikely they were able to jump from protesters to insurgents so quickly that the Schnee suddenly lost several family friends before the WF even had time to properly get on a war footing.
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    Well we are told they went violent 5 years ago that doesn't mean that there may have been violent members that simply worked behind the scenes for several years till they went public with there violence.
     
    Tython82 said:
    Well we are told they went violent 5 years ago that doesn't mean that there may have been violent members that simply worked behind the scenes for several years till they went public with there violence.
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    Maybe but I feel like if that were the case it would have been noted, plus if they were working behind the scenes it wouldn't have been tied to the WF unless of course the media and or Jac were just assuming and got half right cos even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Overall though I tend to feel like that leans into justifying his behavior by blaming it on an outside source over him just being a terrible person.
     
    Or the ruling class put out a bunch of reactionary propaganda that blamed the White Fang for all sorts of things, including the acts of individual madmen, things actually done by their own people and shit they just made up. We see that happening in real life. Atlas might have its own versions of Breitbart and FOX News.
     
    The Narrator said:
    Or the ruling class put out a bunch of reactionary propaganda that blamed the White Fang for all sorts of things, including the acts of individual madmen, things actually done by their own people and shit they just made up. We see that happening in real life. Atlas might have its own versions of Breitbart and FOX News.
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    Personally I suspect this is the case- if violence started five years from the beginning of the show and we give them a year or two to move from smashing things to killing, as well as another year of two to move from random attacks to targeted assassinations (with an added time to plan each one out), then Weiss really couldn't have been losing family members since "childhood". IT's a lot more likely that these were internal power struggles that were blamed on the nearest available scapegoat.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    And the difficult childhoods it made.
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    Waah.

    Like, the Schnees can cry into their silk handkerchiefs on their luxury yachts about how hard they have it. Weiss justifying her racism with how her family life was "difficult" while being a super privileged white girl and effectively a slave owner was so ridiculous to me. I mean, I get that she was and still kinda is stupid/deliberately ignorant and that's interesting characterization in it's own way, but as far as I'm concerned her "difficult childhood" line was really only a few steps removed from "let them eat cake".

    btw I'm not inviting pedantic arguments about the historical accuracy of that line. Bougie is bougie.
     
    Barnaby said:
    Waah.

    Like, the Schnees can cry into their silk handkerchiefs on their luxury yachts about how hard they have it. Weiss justifying her racism with how her family life was "difficult" while being a super privileged white girl and effectively a slave owner was so ridiculous to me. I mean, I get that she was and still kinda is stupid/deliberately ignorant and that's interesting characterization in it's own way, but as far as I'm concerned her "difficult childhood" line was really only a few steps removed from "let them eat cake".

    btw I'm not inviting pedantic arguments about the historical accuracy of that line. Bougie is bougie.
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    Being raised in a broken home with a loveless, controlling narcissist father and an alcoholic mother who's given up on her family doesn't suddenly not make for a f*cked-up childhood because your bed has silk sheets.

    Like, yeah, Weiss was definitely sheltered and ignorant and her dad taking out White Fang actions on his own family (supposedly) doesn't quite equate to Ilia's parents being blown up in an SDC mine, but by any reasonable standard her home life was poisonous and abusive. Her dad's response to Weiss wanting to go to a different school was to pit her in a cage match against an experimental Grimm monster he didn't think she could handle to beat the defiance out of her. That's not something you get to just handwave away as "Oh boo, I don't have a date for tonight's cotillion" or whatever you're trying to pretend it was.
     
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    My take: Some people can have it pretty bad. Other people can have it really bad. It doesn't have to be a competition, there aren't a finite amount amount of Misery Points that can be expended only on a single individual. Weiss grew up incredibly privileged and a lot of people, faunus or no, suffered a lot more. Some because of the way that she got rich, which it is worth noting she had little say in. Her life still sucked in a lot of ways. People can be complex and it can be a nuanced issue where people have advantages and disadvantages and in a lot of ways you're better than most people but maybe in some ways you're worse than most, or at least some. Life has layers, you know?
     
    Or in other words:

    "Everyone is entitled to their own sorrow, for the heart has no metrics or forms of measure." - The White Trailer
     
    Broken Base said:
    My take: Some people can have it pretty bad. Other people can have it really bad. It doesn't have to be a competition, there aren't a finite amount amount of Misery Points that can be expended only on a single individual. Weiss grew up incredibly privileged and a lot of people, faunus or no, suffered a lot more. Some because of the way that she got rich, which it is worth noting she had little say in. Her life still sucked in a lot of ways. People can be complex and it can be a nuanced issue where people have advantages and disadvantages and in a lot of ways you're better than most people but maybe in some ways you're worse than most, or at least some. Life has layers, you know?
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    Leingod said:
    Or in other words:

    "Everyone is entitled to their own sorrow, for the heart has no metrics or forms of measure." - The White Trailer
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    Which actually relates to why I'm light on her for her racism. Yeah it's bad, but at the same time she has been told since childhood that she has a valid reason to be suspicious of Faunus. There's no way for her to tell by looking who specifically wants to kidnap and/or kill her specifically for the sake of the legacy of her name to send a point to her father. And then by the time she's 13 regardless of if what she was told as a child was true or not the White Fang has started to make it true. ~hums Divide 'hatred will sprout from suspicion and doubt'~

    Or as the Lieutenant so aptly put it in volumn two, 'Finally, I get to kill a Schnee'.

    Edit: that she realizes that her father's actions are the root cause of her problem and wants to chamge the SDC helps too, rather than her just blaming the faunus.
     
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    Hey, don't get me wrong- Weiss is nice. She's a fun character. Flawed, but charming in her own way. I understand where she's coming from. But she's still connected and complicit to an evil system on a scale so much bigger than her. Being sad doesn't make that go away.

    I mean, not to get too spicy, but I just don't care for the fake divide in fiction where no one seems to question how violent the heroes are when they're overthrowing an "evil empire" or for "revolution", but when things are a little closer to home and the villains are logically those who benefit most from unfair societies, people in first-world countries with Internet access get uncomfortable and turn those stories into the importance of peace and not responding to violence with violence.

    I guess my feelings on this is largely coming from the bad taste Detroit: Become Human left in my mouth. The race allegory and how the game subtly tried suggesting how the heroes "should" resolve the conflict just didn't sit right with me. Like, if there's a nazi in a videogame, I'm not sure I want to understand his or her complicated and nuanced history, come to sympathize with them, and lead them towards a less genocidal path. I think I'd rather just shoot the nazi. Maybe that's not the most ethically pure choice, but from the context of a story, it's certainly the one I'd find more satisfying.

    Right now I'm at a point where I'd rather see my heroes in fiction fight the power! rather than understand the power and politely but firmly ask it to change itself.
     
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