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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • After reading Leila Hann's less-than-favorable review of this...series, I realized that Yang is basically Vriska except if they tried to make her seem to be the funny and quirky friend of the group and not at all an awful person.

    Also,
    arm jokes.
     
    Muhkat Lomorki said:
    Read it to see what I mean.
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    I don't really have the time, and frankly, if that's the conclusion they reached about super supportive, encouraging, Yang who practically raised her little sister in a broken home with a shut-down/absentee father, mother, dead mother and an alcoholic uncle, who was pretty much universally friendly to everyone that wasn't a criminal or a jerk, incredibly understanding/empathic and puts the needs of others ahead of herself, then I don't want to read it and can see no worth in it.
     
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    Apparently that thread has a negative attitude regarding the show, but that's just what I heard. I don't know if that's actually the case.
     
    Zam said:
    I don't really have the time, and frankly, if that;s the conclusion they reached about super supportive, encouraging, Yang who practically raised her little sister in a broken home with a shut-down/absentee father, mother, dead mother and an alcoholic uncle, who was pretty much universally friendly to everyone that wasn't a criminal or a jerk, incredibly understanding/empathic and puts the needs of others ahead of herself, then I don't want to read it and can see no worth in it.
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    Good choice. I tried actually reading that thread but it quickly became apparent that it was just a pile of crap. Right from the outset hating on the series takes precedence over any sort of actual constructive review. All flaws in the show are magnified a thousandfold and are joined by imagined flaws. There's a ton of complaints about non-existent plot holes that is just the OP not actually paying attention to what is actually in the show because they're to busy picking apart 2 seconds of animation for hundreds of so called terrible errors that 99.99% of all viewers won't even notice. And of course as we can observe here all the characters and their personalities are deliberately misinterpreted to make them all out to be horrible terrible people that deserve nothing but scorn because its so edgy and cool to hate everything about a show instead of giving it a fair shake.

    I mean really the guy who writes it declared that Ozpin is a pedophile and constantly refers to Team RWBY and JNPR as Team DUMB and Team SHIT or something like that. That really tells you everything you need to know about the worth of that thread.


    UbeOne said:
    Apparently that thread has a negative attitude regarding the show, but that's just what I heard. I don't know if that's actually the case.
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    That's the understatement of the century right there. I couldn't even stomach reading all the way through the reactions to Volume 1 yet by that point I still got the impression that Miles and Kerry had killed the OP's dog right in front of him and then pissed on the corpse considering the sheer vitriol for the show he had displayed by that point. And the people who like the thread are somehow even worse. If it had been a political thread it would have been shut down as a Two Minutes Hate thread faster than Ruby can grab a glass of milk.


    Muhkat Lomorki said:
    Read it to see what I mean.
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    Or he could just drink fifty bottles of vodka instead. Its both a healthier and more entertaining way to kill brain cells.
     
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    Mook said:
    Good choice. I tried actually reading that thread but it quickly became apparent that it was just a pile of crap. Right from the outset hating on the series takes precedence over any sort of actual constructive review. All flaws in the show are magnified a thousandfold and are joined by imagined flaws. There's a ton of complaints about non-existent plot holes that is just the OP not actually paying attention to what is actually in the show because they're to busy picking apart 2 seconds of animation for hundreds of so called terrible errors that 99.99% of all viewers won't even notice. And of course as we can observe here all the characters and their personalities are deliberately misinterpreted to make them all out to be horrible terrible people that deserve nothing but scorn because its so edgy and cool to hate everything about a show instead of giving it a fair shake.

    I mean really the guy who writes it declared that Ozpin is a pedophile and constantly refers to Team RWBY and JNPR as Team DUMB and Team SHIT or something like that. That really tells you everything you need to know about the worth of that thread.



    That's the understatement of the century right there. I couldn't even stomach reading all the way through the reactions to Volume 1 yet by that point I still got the impression that Miles and Kerry had killed the OP's dog right in front of him and then pissed on the corpse considering the sheer vitriol for the show he had displayed by that point. And the people who like the thread are somehow even worse. If it had been a political thread it would have been shut down as a Two Minutes Hate thread faster than Ruby can grab a glass of milk.



    Or he could just drink fifty bottles of vodka instead. Its both a healthier and more entertaining way to kill brain cells.
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    *The girl who writes it declared that Ozpin is a pedophile.
     
    Sounds like there were already strong, preconceived notions before even starting to watch.
     
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    Zam said:
    super supportive, encouraging, Yang who
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    walked into a bar, beat the crap out of everyone in it, and sexually assaulted the bartender (Grabbing him by the balls and demanding he call her 'sir')?

    Or are we talking about the one who looked at her 'friend' who was part of a minority that was (allegedly) horribly discriminated against, and thought 'you know what I should do? I should treat her like an actual cat, and get her attention via a laser pointer'?

    Perhaps we're talking about the one who knows that her one friend isn't interested in the guy who is obsessively asking her out, and is in fact highly frustrated with having to deal with it, but who still tells that guy that all he needs to do is be more persistent in showing his affections (and then later is a comforting ear to the person having to deal with an obsessive stalker)?

    Trick question: These are all the same person!

    Jcogginsa said:
    I was involved in the thread towards the beginning. From what I remember the Reviewer was pretty reasonable, but everyone else in the thread hated the show, so it was basically an echo chamber that gave her no faith in the show
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    Honestly, I like RWBY well enough, but the vast majority of the criticism in that thread is entirely legitimate. Like, there's maybe a handful of things that I'd say were off base, but I can't think of them offhand, and everything else makes sense.
     
    Vindictus said:
    walked into a bar, beat the crap out of everyone in it, and sexually assaulted the bartender (Grabbing him by the balls and demanding he call her 'sir')?
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    You mean the leader of a criminal gang (Edit: and his minions) she was intimidating for information and who clearly wasn't that bothered by her actions given he tried to go in for a kiss on someone he acknowledged was under age moments later?

    Also you cherry picked that, here's the whole quote:
    Zam said:
    I don't really have the time, and frankly, if that's the conclusion they reached about super supportive, encouraging, Yang who practically raised her little sister in a broken home with a shut-down/absentee father, mother, dead mother and an alcoholic uncle, who was pretty much universally friendly to everyone that wasn't a criminal or a jerk, incredibly understanding/empathic and puts the needs of others ahead of herself, then I don't want to read it and can see no worth in it.
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    Note the "Criminal and a jerk" thing and respond to the whole post next time.

    Vindictus said:
    Or are we talking about the one who looked at her 'friend' who was part of a minority that was (allegedly) horribly discriminated against, and thought 'you know what I should do? I should treat her like an actual cat, and get her attention via a laser pointer'?
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    Irritating Blake to get her away from the computer so Yang could approach her in private was strategic.

    Vindictus said:
    Perhaps we're talking about the one who knows that her one friend isn't interested in the guy who is obsessively asking her out, and is in fact highly frustrated with having to deal with it, but who still tells that guy that all he needs to do is be more persistent in showing his affections (and then later is a comforting ear to the person having to deal with an obsessive stalker)?

    Trick question: These are all the same person!
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    I won't deny that was irritating and unfortunate, however that's, what, one thing?

    However, I will note that the show creators don't realize how Jaune's behavior could be taken, and thus they were likely trying to highlight Yang as someone encouraging and friendly without realizing the social context or implications, which is more a reflection of the writing than her as a person.
     
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    The whole Jaune pursuing Weiss thing was the writers channeling 90s-era sitcom shows/movies. Different times, values, etc. They thought people would take it from Jaune's perspective instead of Weiss'.

    It was dumb, because almost everything Jaune did during the Beacon arcs as an audience stand-in didn't work- The audience didn't connect with him at all. Everything about it seemed at odds with the show on some level. Jaune works better as fanfic-fodder than in the show proper (granted, some fics are very good).

    I mean heck, Jaune's presence as a major character was always weird since the show was supposed to be about RWBY more than anything else. Does he work as a character? Sure, but his presentation was mishandled. Every time up until the end of V3 (imo). It didn't mesh with the other characters and ended with awkward interactions.

    I tend to ignore the bit where he pursues Weiss, and am somewhat validated in that practice by the Japanese run cutting out most of Jaune's stuff anyway (though the Miwa Shirow manga still had elements of it). Frankly that's probably what everyone should do imo. Just... go with the Japanese dub, weird as it sounds, and dismiss the Jaune stuff as something not-quite-yet-retconned. (I'm not saying I don't get how weird his continued pursuit of Weiss was, just that it's dumb enough that I kinda don't acknowledge it when possible).



    tl;dr I like the idea of Jaune but kinda try to dismiss most of the shit that involved him at Beacon... and so did the creators maybe. This includes how other characters acted with him around. Hope I wasn't too incoherent.
     
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    Vindictus said:
    Or are we talking about the one who looked at her 'friend' who was part of a minority that was (allegedly) horribly discriminated against, and thought 'you know what I should do? I should treat her like an actual cat, and get her attention via a laser pointer'?
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    Considering the fact she was trying to get her attention and wasn't being hateful about it I don't see the issue. It's one thing for someone who you don't know making offensive references to stereotypes vs friends doing so.

    Vindictus said:
    Perhaps we're talking about the one who knows that her one friend isn't interested in the guy who is obsessively asking her out, and is in fact highly frustrated with having to deal with it, but who still tells that guy that all he needs to do is be more persistent in showing his affections (and then later is a comforting ear to the person having to deal with an obsessive stalker)?
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    I mean most of Weiss and Jaune's stuff seems like it was a joke out of time. The entire set up and joke would seem totally normal less than a decade ago. Shit like that was common in kid's cartoons, and it involved both genders. It's not that different from Freddie from iCarly or Tootie from Fairly Oddparents. The issue is that RT misread the times and the audience when making the joke and seem to have moved on totally.
     
    Zam said:
    I won't deny that was irritating and unfortunate, however that's, what, one thing?
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    One thing among many that formed the 'Gaslighting!Yang' interpretation that people have fun with in the Let's Read.

    Even after you dismiss the casual racism and casual violent assault as being 'harmless' and/or directed towards valid targets (and really, what's the worst thing we've actually seen Junior do? Try to shoo an underaged girl out of his club?) there are piles and piles of remarkably consistent character-building moments that make Yang look like, well, a bit of a violent psychopath at best.
     
    Vindictus said:
    One thing among many that formed the 'Gaslighting!Yang' interpretation that people have fun with in the Let's Read.

    Even after you dismiss the casual racism and casual violent assault as being 'harmless' and/or directed towards valid targets (and really, what's the worst thing we've actually seen Junior do? Try to shoo an underaged girl out of his club?) there are piles and piles of remarkably consistent character-building moments that make Yang look like, well, a bit of a violent psychopath at best.
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    What racism? Seriously one joke at Blake's expense isn't going to cause poor Blake to melt.
     
    Vindictus said:
    One thing among many that formed the 'Gaslighting!Yang' interpretation that people have fun with in the Let's Read.
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    You mean the thing you failed to explain or justify even remotely with your post and that is totally contradictory to her entire character?

    Vindictus said:
    Even after you dismiss the casual racism and casual violent assault as being 'harmless' and/or directed towards valid targets (and really, what's the worst thing we've actually seen Junior do? Try to shoo an underaged girl out of his club?) there are piles and piles of remarkably consistent character-building moments that make Yang look like, well, a bit of a violent psychopath at best.
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    I notice you have,once again, cherry picked my post and not actually responded to it.

    I'm just going to touch on why I always bring this up.

    If someone refuses to address the whole of another persons post, or if they cherry pick and focus exclusively on tiny portions of it, it raises the question to me: "What aren't you addressing and why?" Because, if you actually had a good counter argument why then mis-represent my arguments, what I said, or focus on tiny microbes of my post that remove all context?

    Vindictus said:
    Even after you dismiss the casual racism and casual violent assault as being 'harmless' and/or directed towards valid targets (and really, what's the worst thing we've actually seen Junior do? Try to shoo an underaged girl out of his club?) there are piles and piles of remarkably consistent character-building moments that make Yang look like, well, a bit of a violent psychopath at best.
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    So as I said, this is mis-representative of what I said, but it also fails to actually address what I said:

    "Racism"
    Yang was trying to get Blake away from the computer without causing a scene and irritated her to do so, could the method she used be construed as offensive? maybe. However, Blake did not bring the matter up and so presumably wasn't that bothered by Yang doing it. If you have a problem with the scene, direct it at the writing, not the character.

    "Violence"
    Junior was a criminal. His response to the situation was to try and have a kiss from someone he had noted was under age, hence him clearly not holding much of a ridge and also being kinda gross. Finally, you think the casual violence is bad? Really? In this show, with this character? Do you also think Ruby is a criminal vigilante for what she did in episode 1, or that RWBY are violent extremists for their actions against the White Fang? Because this is an action series, and Junior and his gang are criminals, of course Yang beat them up, she went Batman on them.

    As to your question on what we see Junior do lets see:
    In the trailer he was openly chatting with notorious criminal Roman Torchwick, he rented said notorious criminal his mooks for criminal actions and, oh right, he's the leader of a gang and so presumably committed a bunch of other crimes off-screen we don't see because they don't matter to the story.

    You failed to bring up any valid ones on your first post and can't even debate fairly, forgive me for questioning the validity of your views.
     
    Vindictus said:
    One thing among many that formed the 'Gaslighting!Yang' interpretation that people have fun with in the Let's Read.

    Even after you dismiss the casual racism and casual violent assault as being 'harmless' and/or directed towards valid targets (and really, what's the worst thing we've actually seen Junior do? Try to shoo an underaged girl out of his club?) there are piles and piles of remarkably consistent character-building moments that make Yang look like, well, a bit of a violent psychopath at best.
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    You call it casual racism. I call it trying to annoy a friend and provoke a fight because that's what the friend needs, and the one they're trying to pursue is downright suicidal.
     
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    People trying to interpret Yang that way are just trying to be offended. Blake being irritated by it was exactly why Yang did it. That laser-pointer joke worked because friends would totally give each other shit like that, and she used it to try and give Blake advice knowing that she would be baited by it. Aaaaand now i'm tring to break down the scene fml.

    Also, the whole Junior thing was supposed to be the criminal underworld. He's an info broker. Leave morals at the door- seriously. Junior and the Malachite twins showed up in the villain line-up in the OP, it was always supposed to be implied that these are shady characters.


    ...That being said, so many people being offended about this stuff on characters' behalf is probably another example of the creators not really connecting with the audience they picked up. I think they intended normal weebs and got Tumblr. There's no ocean between western Tumblr and RT so the shitstorm actually affects them or is at least recognizable.

    Yes I'm generalizing, but hopefully my point is clear.
     
    Tikigod784 said:
    People trying to interpret Yang that way are just trying to be offended. Blake being irritated by it was exactly why Yang did it. That laser-pointer joke worked because friends would totally give each other shit like that, and she used it to try and give Blake advice knowing that she would be baited by it. Aaaaand now i'm tring to break down the scene fml.

    Also, the whole Junior thing was supposed to be the criminal underworld. He's an info broker. Leave morals at the door- seriously. Junior and the Malachite twins showed up in the villain line-up in the OP, it was always supposed to be implied that these are shady characters.


    ...That being said, so many people being offended about this stuff on characters' behalf is probably another example of the creators not really connecting with the audience they picked up. I think they intended normal weebs and got Tumblr. There's no ocean between western Tumblr and RT so the shitstorm actually affects them or is at least recognizable.

    Yes I'm generalizing, but hopefully my point is clear.
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    I agree on the Junior and goading Blake thing, but disagree on the tumblr thing.

    I think a different way to phrase it is that they advertised a series emphasizing strong, badass woman who, by and large, weren't there to be sexualised and they got a lot of women interested. But then they also brought in a lot of stuff from other shows, like constantlyasking a woman out after she's turned you down, ETC which doesn't bother a large majority of guys because its not something they have to deal with. But its a very common and unpleasant thing in many women's lives and this was a show they weren't expecting that kind of thing in which made its presence even more grating than normal.
    Edit: granted, that is just my take, apologies if seemed to be speaking for people, that was not my intent.
     
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    Yeah my tumblr comment is purposefully a generalization so it's got faults. I believe the outrage isn't actually unique to RWBY though.

    On the 'badass women thing'... RWBY comes across as shonen to a degree but doesn't really achieve the same feel that shows like My-HiME, Sailor Moon, or Nanoha did. It's kinda hard to explain what those shows had that RWBY doesn't. Maybe because they get in the characters' heads a bit more? Kinda exclusively female-centric perspectives? I dunno. (it ain't the fanservice that's a different issue) Definitely an issue of presentation though.
     
    Tikigod784 said:
    Yeah my tumblr comment is purposefully a generalization so it's got faults. I believe the outrage isn't actually unique to RWBY though.
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    I tend to dislike the tumblr generalization, as tumblr is basically used as an insult over on SB and in the YouTube comments section, (Plus I know from personal experience there's some horribly varied view points there which are lets say 'less' than progressive) Oh certainly not unique to RWBY, I just wouldn't be surprised if it was more noticeable as the show was geared and aimed at a different demographic than something like... I don't know, whatever the most recent incarnation of Naruto is XD Which led to a more diverse audience.

    Tikigod784 said:
    On the 'badass women thing'... RWBY comes across as shonen to a degree but doesn't really achieve the same feel that shows like My-HiME, Sailor Moon, or Nanoha did. It's kinda hard to explain what those shows had that RWBY doesn't. Maybe because they get in the characters' heads a bit more? Kinda exclusively female-centric perspectives? I dunno. (it ain't the fanservice that's a different issue) Definitely an issue of presentation though.
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    I would like to respond to this, but am unsure what you mean by the same feats, so I am unsure what you are trying to convey, sorry.
     
    Zam said:
    I tend to dislike the tumblr generalization, as tumblr is basically used as an insult over on SB and in the YouTube comments section, (Plus I know from personal experience there's some horribly varied view points there which are lets say 'less' than progressive) Oh certainly not unique to RWBY, I just wouldn't be surprised if it was more noticeable as the show was geared and aimed at a different demographic than something like... I don't know, whatever the most recent incarnation of Naruto is XD Which led to a more diverse audience.


    I would like to respond to this, but am unsure what you mean by the same feats, so I am unsure what you are trying to convey, sorry.
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    I'd argue they might have been trying to get the Naruto fanbase as an audience to some degree. Of course, the main cast being what it is, it was always going to attract a different audience. Not really trying to use tumblr as an insult but rather as a kind of identifier for the kind of fans picked up. tumblr anime blogs are markedly different from general forums from what I've seen. They pick up on different things, etc. etc. generalization. maybe i'm full of it i dunno I was generalizing because i didn't want to get to into it beyond my point anyway. Sorry.

    'badass women thing' is just me quoting you. Those shows I mentioned kinda have all-female teams center-stage and frames things from their perspectives. RWBY seems like it doesn't do the same thing and I'm kinda unsure whether they were even going for that despite the main team being all-female. If I had to definitively guess though, I'd say no due to Jaune's presence as a supposed audience stand-in (and then 90s expy), which said three shows didn't bother with too much after first few episodes.
     
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