RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

kokuenDG · May 1, 2022

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

Mook · Oct 28, 2017

Tython82 said:
Except outside of that one line we have not seen any of the characters praying to said gods or any sort of religious worship though out the show and you would think the large cast of season 3 with characters form all over Remnant we would have at least gotten one person.

It really has not been that important, especially since Remnant much like the real world has become more and more secular in the modern age. And we do see signs of some kind of worship.

Either that's a previous High Leader of the White Fang and they're even more cult-like than we thought or the Faunus have some kind of god they worship or practice some form of ancestor worship.

Dream Logic · Oct 28, 2017

Exposition.

Also holy shit, actually active gods.

Also, the scene at the camp felt really weird. Like, it's almost canned laughter and did we even know about this before? Because I don't remember hearing it and it seems like a really really weak way to pull it.

mistakenot · Oct 28, 2017

Dream Logic said:
Exposition.

Also holy shit, actually active gods.

Also, the scene at the camp felt really weird. Like, it's almost canned laughter and did we even know about this before? Because I don't remember hearing it and it seems like a really really weak way to pull it.

Jacques argued with Ironwood about the Dust embargo back in V4, and Lionheart brought up the embargo again in V5C1 along with Atlas's "closing of borders".

The only part that was new was:

Winter herself being withdrawn back to Atlas, though some have speculated that the bandits might be wrong about that.

Zam · Oct 28, 2017

Dang, Blake could have really countered Illia if she'd shouted about how her human team leader accepted her despite being a former WF, meaning she was harboring a criminal, or how another human team mate lost relatives to the WF but accepted her and that her human partner sacrificed her arm defending Blake from Adam. The speech could then go off in other directions form there, but that alone feels like it could have undermined Illia's point to varying degrees. Of course, Blake has no experience as a public speaker and is uncomfortable dealing with Illia and the subject matter is very painful for her, so I can see why she didn't bring it up, I just wish she had.

Also given how horrifying fusing Pyrrha and Amber was treated as in V3, the fact the seeming same thing is happening with Ozpin and Oscar is creepy, also Ozpin now feels like a shadow king. Sure he ceded power in public, but in secret he controlled the maidens, the super warrior academies, and the relics. The other headmasters weren't allies they are lieutenants, and the students were already unwitting guards. So yeah, not sure if its intended but he feels shady at a minimum.

Also why are people not more freaked out about the idea of literal gods in universe XD

Darmani said:
You got me until the end there. Its why I suggested there not BEING a Sienna (or 'sienna' being a peer or an underling effectively presenting the same argument)

Ah, sorry, I did see that but kind of lost track of it in my response (I think because the idea of Adam being high leader originally, or not having a superior officer just other leaders, just doesn't sit right with me) But yeah, I can see why the same narrative idea could have been done with an underling or ally.

Darmani said:
I editted for clarity.
Effectively Blake's escaping my dark past from my abuser story upgraded the abuser so now he's as important to the overall as to her.

Ah, this is really well said and insightful, and I agree this is part of what's vexxing me, Adam works well as a personal foe and demon, but upgrading him to such ranks just feels off to me.

Darmani said:
Now Adam IS as horrifically dangerous and poisonous as Blake (and yang) perceive him. That's not absolutely wrong but it doesn't change things. The plot train isn't taking us to new scenery and views but extending the current one. That said Sienna had to die OR replace Adam effectively. and I don't think you can have pseudo rapist (that's what he is he talks, walks, stalks, and is coded as abusive and sadistic and controlling menacing to females) in your plot and NOT indulge in his destruction by his victims anymore. Or at least it will feel disatisfying. You can't have the drunkard wife beater just die of a heart attack after having knocked out his wife left his trailer to the liquor story to get slimjims and cigs. Even if he dies as a result of the toxicity of his own hubris and left to do so alone because of how he treated his support (and its always a him that's the point of these things) its not satisfying for audiences and they feel the creators are at fault for the female's suffering.
So Sienna nor Salem could execute him and take up his position as "leader of the dangerous fuanus terror group" But overall the action feels.. redundant or too quick as we don't establish him taking over. Just insert my frustrations on Renly Baratheon here but without my support of the character as he is less feckless politician and more "abusive sadistic ex"

I agree with pretty much all of this, his toxicity and personal threat, how replacing him also would have had its issues and about how should defeat him. I do feel there'd have been ways around that without killing Sienna, or at lest letting her die with more dignity though. Loved that "The plot train isn't taking us to new scenery and views but extending the current one." was great, super well said.

Tython82 said:
Why do I get the feeling that Salem was one of the original creations of the God of Darkness and when he and his brother made up created humans etc, she got super pissed and is now trying wage a war on the heavens?

That's definitely possible, though given some of her songs paint an image of someone wanting revenge, I don't know, it feels like that would be kind of unsatisfying to me.

hellgodsrus said:
They literally talk about religion in V3E6 ('it would go against centuries of religion,' said by Glynda when talking about why they don't reveal the maidens' existence), Qrow's story about the origins of Grimm and the relics in V4E8 talks about gods - the idea RWBY has no religion is fucking stupid and contradicted by the show on multiple occasions.

I'm pretty sure they just said that theology wouldn't be a heavily discussed topic at one point, though I cannot recall if that is true or just a rumor.

hellgodsrus said:
Do you know many religious people? They don't tend to just drop down and pray in the middle of the street. 'Oh my god' is a common enough expression that Yang says it multiple times (only time I can really remember is 'Oh my god you really exploded') but I think she says it again in V4.

I'm pretty sure she said gosh not god, can't quite recall though.

Mook said:
Either that's a previous High Leader of the White Fang and they're even more cult-like than we thought or the Faunus have some kind of god they worship or practice some form of ancestor worship.

I'd like ancestor worship myself, distinguish many Faunus and their culture from the humans and it would tie into their narrative and language well in some ways.

Dream Logic · Oct 29, 2017

in hindsight a lot of the songs were pretty explicit in how Ozpin set people up. Not just as warriors to fight and die but in how calculated he was about it.

Hoping Ozpins goal is to create a world where he isn't needed because that is some shady shit you have their Oz.

Also is it just me or does each seasons opening song get a bit worse? Maybe they're just starting to blend together.

Also it's really weird how team RWBY all runs together but they went in different directions before.

Oh and nice detail. Hazel is completely defensive, he only blocks and throws off Nora.

Zam · Oct 29, 2017

So this is just a head canon but:

Given Blake said the White Fang raided trains, and given Adam either lied to her or didn't tell her the details of the "Blow up the train & crew mission" and how Sienna was fairly pragmatic & probably wouldn't want a whole trains worth of Dust blown up rather than stolen...

Well I'm just thinking Adam was ignoring her orders even back then and relying on his distance and BS-ing up excuses to Sienna for why the cargo was lost, just as he did with Blake in regards to hurting or killing people unnecessarily.

Something like:
"I was ready to acquire the Dust, High Leader, but the Schnees stowed away a defense mech, I was crushing it (He wasn't) but the damned thing started exploding and, well the lackluster SDC safety precautions don't just apply to their mines it seems. I barely got off the train in time before it was blown up with all the Dust, and the crew (he's smiling)"

And because she has tons of other stuff to do, wasn't there and Adam has generally been reliable she accepts it and moves on.

Zam · Oct 29, 2017

Dream Logic said:
in hindsight a lot of the songs were pretty explicit in how Ozpin set people up. Not just as warriors to dighf and die but in how calculated he was about it.

Oh and nice detail. Hazel is completely defensive, he only blocks and throws off Nora.

Agreed on the shadiness, there's a lot of ways the stuff he does can be taken, add in the songs and... Well he's suspicious at best.

Great insight, I hadn't noticed that!

Dream Logic · Oct 29, 2017

For the record I now imagine Sienna starring in a corny sit-com. 'Oh Adam!'.

Oh and someone freaking out at Oscar because Oz is supposed to be dead then Oscar just says in Oz's voice, "rule of thumb, you can't kill the messiah.".

Zam said:
Agreed on the shadiness, there's a lot of ways the stuff he does can be taken, add in the songs and... Well he's suspicious at best.

Great insight, I hadn't noticed that!

To be fair...

when the gods tell you to do shit that generally gives you a bit of leeway. Like, obviously shady shit but it comes off as he at least understands the costs(he'll im sure that's why all the songs hammer on that, because he cares).

And the way it's phrased implies that on some fundamental level the soul is willing even if the container doesn't know that it agreed subconsciously.

Zam · Oct 29, 2017

Dream Logic said:
For the record I now imagine Sienna starring in a corny sit-com. 'Oh Adam!'.

rofl:
Oh that rascal! XD
Sienna: Adam you started a war!
Adam: Did I do thaaaat?
White Fang: Oh Adam!

Dream Logic said:
To be fair...

when the gods tell you to do shit that generally gives you a bit of leeway. Like, obviously shady shit but it comes off as he at least understands the costs(he'll im sure that's why all the songs hammer on that, because he cares).

And the way it's phrased implies that on some fundamental level the soul is willing even if the container doesn't know that it agreed subconsciously.

Maybe, but that kind of just makes the deities feel like jerks, like they could help maybe?

I am unsure I agree with that myself. The person is meant to be similar to him, but I am unsure consent was ever broached, but I may have missed it.

Mook · Oct 29, 2017

Not sure why

Ozpin should be blamed for possessing people when it was the Gods that put that curse on him. And keep in mind that the curse will not stop reincarnating him just because he stopped doing his job. Ozpin pretty much has to do everything he can do stop Salem each time he's reincarnated because if he doesn't then that means that he's dooming yet another innocent soul to being stuck participating in his endless war. And the next person in line is going to have an even harder time of it because the last Oz decided to not show up to work. Not to mention that the more Oz's who skip work and decide to let the new host just live a normal life then the easier it will be for Salem to reach her ultimate victory and doom humanity.

Zam · Oct 29, 2017

Mook said:
Not sure why

Ozpin should be blamed for possessing people when it was the Gods that put that curse on him. And keep in mind that the curse will not stop reincarnating him just because he stopped doing his job. Ozpin pretty much has to do everything he can do stop Salem each time he's reincarnated because if he doesn't then that means that he's dooming yet another innocent soul to being stuck participating in his endless war. And the next person in line is going to have an even harder time of it because the last Oz decided to not show up to work. Not to mention that the more Oz's who skip work and decide to let the new host just live a normal life then the easier it will be for Salem to reach her ultimate victory and doom humanity.

I'm not necessarily blaming him, just noting that its kind of creepy, though for what its worth we only have Ozpin's word that the gods cursed him. Plus we don't know what Salem's actual goal is, as it stands she seems more interested in reclaiming 'what is ours' than in destroying humanity or Faunus; granted she obviously considers a kingdom or two an acceptable loss, but Cinder seemed to have by in large control of the Vale situation and Adam is the one who wants to destroy Mistral.

DezoPenguin · Oct 29, 2017

Mook said:
Not sure why

Ozpin should be blamed for possessing people when it was the Gods that put that curse on him. And keep in mind that the curse will not stop reincarnating him just because he stopped doing his job. Ozpin pretty much has to do everything he can do stop Salem each time he's reincarnated because if he doesn't then that means that he's dooming yet another innocent soul to being stuck participating in his endless war. And the next person in line is going to have an even harder time of it because the last Oz decided to not show up to work. Not to mention that the more Oz's who skip work and decide to let the new host just live a normal life then the easier it will be for Salem to reach her ultimate victory and doom humanity.

Are people blaming him? I mean, it's pretty explicitly something he's not doing himself. It's a "curse" for a reason.

Anyway, reposting my thoughts from the subreddit:

I was actually a bit worried about this episode, given that it was a Blake segment and that's been the source of most of the writing flubs recently (as opposed to the "not enough time to tell the story we want to tell" problems that have been present since the start of the show), but instead, they knocked it out of the park.

Ghira gave a great speech. Really nice VA work there. I loved how the Faunus were all cheering with him--right up until he asked them to step up and take action to protect the humans. That's completely realistic, not only because of the Remnant-specific circumstances but in general.

Ilia's speech was really good, too; I like how her VA made her tones very shrill and brittle, as if she was really under heavy emotional strain and passion when she said it.
Blake really, really should have spoken up while Ilia was ranting, though. I wonder if her holding back was for a reason (her own conflicted feelings?) or just the writers letting Ilia speechify. Blake's pained expressions and the fact that Sun actually did try to shut Ilia up suggests the former to me.

Smug foxes are smug.

So, we finally get the specific details of how Oscar/Ozpin work: they'll eventually merge into a single gestalt entity. Each new Ozpin has a different personality due to the new host's inclusion, but the retained memories can't help but have an impact. I wonder if he enjoys an enhanced lifespan as well, or if he just ages normally.

We're also told that he's been around for thousands of years (yeah, definitely "more mistakes than anyone on Remnant), and that he was cursed by the gods for failing to stop Salem (perhaps my moon-blowing-up being at the root of that isn't too far off?). Also, I wonder if the gods in question were the Dark and Light Brothers, and maybe Salem's initial "crime" was to turn the Grimm into an anti-human force? (After all, we've all wondered why Grimm--creatures of pure Darkness designed to destroy creatures of pure Light--would relentlessly attack humans even though humans are as much the Dark Brother's creation and indeed are the gage by which the Dark Brother could eventually triumph over his sibling if we, humanity, chose Dark. I'd think DB would be pretty honked at his own creations screwing with his plans.) Since we're officially dealing with millennia-long timeframes for the Salem/Oz conflict, it now seems possible that the V1E1 origin story occurred at the same time.

I feel bad for Oscar, though, who's going to get at least partially subsumed against his will. Maybe that's why Ozpin refers to it as a curse...

And hey, Ozpin has already twigged onto the fact that Leo is compromised. Yay for actually showing brains and paying attention!

"Vernal" for the Spring Maiden's name is a little on the nose ("vernal" is an adjective meaning "of or relating to spring") but at least it confirms who she is. We also now know that Weiss was in fact trying to seek refuge with Winter when she came to Mistral, and that Weiss also is not going to just sit around meekly; having just escaped her dad's place, she's not going to stand for being re-damseled. Anyone want to bet on whether the escape attempt will happen right when Yang shows up at the camp (say, she arrives just as Raven or Vernal is recapturing Weiss?)?

One thing about the timeframe interests me:

Ghira said that the attack on Haven would be timed for the start of the fall semester at the academy, in two months. But Ozpin said that classes would resume in one month. So, assuming that this isn't a huge screenwriting gaffe that means that Blake's segment of the story is happening one full month before RNJR's (and possibly other parties). Which means that for Blake, Sienna might not even be dead yet. (Also, that extra month gives Blake and whomever comes along with her--almost certainly Sun, possibly her parents--travel time to get to Haven.)

Something I didn't mention there but is worth saying: In addition to Ilia and Ghira's VA's Oscar's nailed it as well; doing a great job mimicing the cadence and tone that Shannon McCormick uses for Ozpin. The VA work is really, really improved this year, and not just with pros like Cherami Leigh being pros, but people like Garrett Hunter stepping up their game.

Zam · Oct 29, 2017

DezoPenguin said:
Ghira said that the attack on Haven would be timed for the start of the fall semester at the academy, in two months. But Ozpin said that classes would resume in one month. So, assuming that this isn't a huge screenwriting gaffe that means that Blake's segment of the story is happening one full month before RNJR's (and possibly other parties). Which means that for Blake, Sienna might not even be dead yet. (Also, that extra month gives Blake and whomever comes along with her--almost certainly Sun, possibly her parents--travel time to get to Haven.)

I think it was noted somewhere that yeah, Blake's story line is taking place earlier than the rest of RWBY's, how that ties into the rest of the WF plot is unclear though, IE, is Adam in line with Blake, or with RWNJR?

Also agreed, great voice acting and I wish Blake had spoken up about the human leader who harbored, knowing she was a criminal, of the human who lost loved one;s to the WF but chose to befriend her and the human partner who sacrificed her arm protecting her from Adam.

Crow · Oct 29, 2017

So guess it was discussed to death already but I feel like I have to comment that it does really feel like a waste for the head honcho of the white fang to be offed so ....easily. She was an interesting character, hell they even made her feel actually charismatic with her speech, even though she's advocating violence against violence she realizes that Adam's shenanigans are only justifying a campaign against Faunus.

And considering the world in which they live I really dont think she being that weak and yet retaining a position of power in a violent terrorist group in a dead-world where there is always monsters trying to kill you and you are part of a persecuted group that decided to take up arms and oops no actually she cant defend herself?

Its something of a huge waste of potential. that I liked her design and what brief we saw of her also may influence my opinion but you know.

Mook · Oct 29, 2017

One final Kickstarter update. Looks like there won't be any more stretch goals added at this point. Still it seems that the final stretch goal of 3 extra objectives is going to be truly Kickstarter exclusive so anyone who has been on the fence might want to get your game now instead of buying it later, otherwise you might miss out on content.

Campaign Update #18 - The Final Countdown!
3 Comments

It's the final countdown!

Congratulations to hitting and blowing past our last Stretch Goal! Everyone who is a Kickstarter backer now will be receiving a trio of Kickstarter Exclusive Objective Cards. These will be shipped out at the same time as your main copy of the game, so you'll be inundated from the start with a great number of possible scenarios, objectives, and Villain combinations! (This is a super good thing.)

The RWBY: Combat Ready Kickstarter now has less than 24 hours to go before it wraps up at 12:00 p.m. CDT on Monday October 30. That's in exactly 20 hours and 32 minutes from when this post is going up!

For those of you who haven't been able to grasp the enormity of what has been upgraded, added, and offered in regards to RWBY: Combat Ready, we have a brief journal written by our Campaign Manager, Chelsea Atkinson that lays out "The Road So Far."

Keep spreading the word about RWBY: Combat Ready - and thank you so much for your continued support.

We'll talk to you soon!

<3
Rooster Teeth

Edit:
2 hours left until the Kickstarter ends. If you're thinking about making or changing a Pledge now's your last chance:

Grandy12 · Oct 31, 2017

Yo, I heard the series got pretty depressive and with plenty of character deaths. (I know who they are, no need to worry about spoiling me)

My question is; is there any sign they will be brought back?

'Cause I wanted to get back to the sries, thanks to the fighting game crossover reawakening my interest, but I also have a lot of crap on my life and don't really want to deal with more negative stuff on top of it.

Nicholai · Oct 31, 2017

Grandy12 said:
Yo, I heard the series got pretty depressive and with plenty of character deaths. (I know who they are, no need to worry about spoiling me)

My question is; is there any sign they will be brought back?

'Cause I wanted to get back to the sries, thanks to the fighting game crossover reawakening my interest, but I also have a lot of crap on my life and don't really want to deal with more negative stuff on top of it.

There hasn't been any sign they will be brought back. The creative team has also repeatedly said that they are actually dead.

There is the potential for one of them to be brought back but frankly it has been multiple volumes without any foreshadowing of that. I suspect it would also send the fans of the new tone of the show up in flames if they did that. (Reference all the people here, on SB, or on the RT forums that swear they would drop the show if they "went back.")

Shadows · Oct 31, 2017

Nicholai said:
There hasn't been any sign they will be brought back. The creative team has also repeatedly said that they are actually dead.

There is the potential for one of them to be brought back but frankly it has been multiple volumes without any foreshadowing of that. I suspect it would also send the fans of the new tone of the show up in flames if they did that. (Reference all the people here, on SB, or on the RT forums that swear they would drop the show if they "went back.")

Well. One of them technically has been, and the other is, in fact, a robot. So there's two there and the still-gone one has a logical reason for their return.

Grandy12 · Oct 31, 2017

Nicholai said:
There hasn't been any sign they will be brought back. The creative team has also repeatedly said that they are actually dead.

There is the potential for one of them to be brought back but frankly it has been multiple volumes without any foreshadowing of that. I suspect it would also send the fans of the new tone of the show up in flames if they did that. (Reference all the people here, on SB, or on the RT forums that swear they would drop the show if they "went back.")

Shame, guess the shown just isn't for me anymore then.

UbeOne · Oct 31, 2017

There's always RWBY Chibi.

Grandy12 · Oct 31, 2017

UbeOne said:
There's always RWBY Chibi.

Oh, didn't know about that one.

I'll check that out, thanks!

Nicholai · Oct 31, 2017

UbeOne said:
There's always RWBY Chibi.

Chibi is what the RT team threw together to try and keep the fans of Volumes 1 & 2 who ditched Volume 3. I haven't watched it, personally, but what I've heard is that it is closer to Looney Toons than the earlier stuff.

Anyone care to weigh in?

UbeOne · Oct 31, 2017

It's the more comedic side of RWBY. It puts a smile on my face.

Zam · Oct 31, 2017

While not every joke is a winner and one or two might make someone uncomfortable, I would overall rate RWBY Chibi as a very fun romp that plays to exaggerated situations and characters in entertaining ways and makes great use of its assets and the setting for jokes, that can even be quite surprising at times. Plus the voice acting is great, I love the joke delivery.

DezoPenguin · Oct 31, 2017

Nicholai said:
Chibi is what the RT team threw together to try and keep the fans of Volumes 1 & 2 who ditched Volume 3. I haven't watched it, personally, but what I've heard is that it is closer to Looney Toons than the earlier stuff.

Anyone care to weigh in?

That's...not a good description of Chibi at all (meaning the boldfaced part). If you were a fan of V1-2 because of their actual content, Chibi isn't going to do anything for you. Unless the dance arc was your favorite part because it featured wacky school adventues.

The description of them as "closer to Looney Toons" is more accurate. Chibi is a 100% comedy show, using super-deformed (aka "chibi"), extremely personality-exaggerated, versions of the characters running around Beacon doing comedy skits. Generally there are 2-4 different short skits in a four-minute episode, involving such things as Ruby's issues with pickle jars, Blake being a cat, Sun and Neptune being junior detectives (so, so many junior detectives

), Cinder and Roman up to Evil Schemes, Yang telling puns, and so on. Neo literally talks by holding up signs a la Wile E. Coyote. The humor is hit or miss (Season 1 is markedly better than Season 2, anything with Roman is virtually guaranteed to be good, anything with the Junior Detectives has maybe a 1% chance of being funny), and said humor actually works much better if you watch the main show than if you don't.

Note that all three characters killed off in V3 of the main show now feature regularly in Chibi. For all intents and purposes, Chibi takes place in an alternate universe.

Re: dead characters in the main show:

Penny was dismantled by Pyrrha, but she's a robot, so only the creators know to what level of "dead" she may have been killed. Undoubtedly we'll find out in the inevitable Atlas arc.

Pyrrha has "reappeared" in a video recording and a symbolic "ghost" image when Ruby was talking in V4. She remains dead. M&K have talked about how the point of seeing her burned to ashes was to provide an incontrovertible image of death to the fans, but a good chunk of the fandom instead saw her as "dissolving into energy" or some other semi-mystical stuff designed as a lead-in to her return, so writing fail there.

Roman remains, by all intents and purposes, in a Griffon's belly. He may possibly have been digested by now.

I don't even understand why people think Neo might be dead, given that she (a) she's in a universe where combat trainees begin their collegiate initiation by being launched from a height, (b) she was uninjured and conscious when she fell from a height, and (c) she has a working Semblance so there's no question about her having Aura to protect her.

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Good Civ Inspector

An offseason swallow

An offseason swallow

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Sacred Priestess of the Benevolent Dice Gods

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