RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[Azecreth]

Basically, you'll get a better look at the military in season 3. Atlas' military in particular. I don't think we've really seen any of the others yet.

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Yep.

Which is surprising. You think we would have seen Vale's actually military at some point in the immediate past of the show.

 

[Zam]

As for tanks... well, Paladins probably fill that slot, because mechs are cooler I guess?

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I think its also a versatility thing, I recall reading/hearing that the issue with tanks is they often struggle to navigate terrain and that's part of why mechs would be good, greater control, variety of movement and adaptability, which is likely why they used spider droids instead of tanks as well.

Also if I recall only Atlas has a military, I think the others have militia, though I am not 100% on that.

Yeah but I have yet to understand how a bunch of Hunters can take out entire battalions of tanks or how they can firembombing by fleets.

Hunters would be nice and all, but on fighting Grimm, I'd rather take the Imperial Guard of the series rather than a few hundred Hunters.

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Are you OK with spoilers? If so read on.

Spoiler

Aura,or more importantly a powerful well trained Aura creates a huge gap between a regular weapon and a normal one, for instance we see an airship use a minigun take several shots to kill a normal to slightly above average Ursa, while Coco a student Huntress wipes out half a dozen Beowolves, a Deathstalker and three giant Nevermores with her Mini gun.

A dude name Yatsuhashi can literally create craters and shockwaves just by swinging his sword as well.

We also see Oobleck, a full grown Hunter wipe out several mechs, basically super tanks, with barely a hint of effort.

We also see Neo take over an Atlesian airship solo, seemingly killing everyone on board before they can even call for help.

Basically Aura is a huge force multiplier that lets Hunters tear through stuff like tanks and withstand explosions with ease while normal weapons would get torn apart and mooks soldiers would be obliterated.

Is there a reason for the separation? Hunters are by definition, monster-killing soldiers. It would be wise to combine your spec ops with your main military arm after all.

Also, why are they called Kingdoms? Like I said, still in early season 2, but I have yet to see any mention of royalty.

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Its mostly cultural, there was a huge dictatorship in the past that tried to control people very heavily so now Remnant is very focussed on freedom of expression and movement and giving the Government control over all the super people would likely make folks uncomfortable as well.

The kingdoms seems to be a hold over from a past era somehting that happens in our world two if I recall.

Seeing as team RWBY, a bunch of rookies, can take on one Paladin, it makes me question how effective these mechs are. Say what you will about 40k's mechs, but the Titans have entire armies backing them.

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RWBY are also extremely high end 'rookies' Blake being a former terrorist, Weiss being an heiress whose family can afford the most obscene training including sicking Grim infested mech knights on her while Yang and Ruby were trained by two high level Hunters and grew up in the culture. Similarly I think that speaks more to how powerful Hunters are,not how weak the mechs are.

 

[Hykal94]

Are you OK with spoilers? If so read on.

Spoiler

Aura,or more importantly a powerful well trained Aura creates a huge gap between a regular weapon and a normal one, for instance we see an airship use a minigun take several shots to kill a normal to slightly above average Ursa, while Coco a student Huntress wipes out half a dozen Beowolves, a Deathstalker and three giant Nevermores with her Mini gun.

A dude name Yatsuhashi can literally create craters and shockwaves just by swinging his sword as well.

We also see Oobleck, a full grown Hunter wipe out several mechs, basically super tanks, with barely a hint of effort.

We also see Neo take over an Atlesian airship solo, seemingly killing everyone on board before they can even call for help.

Basically Aura is a huge force multiplier that lets Hunters tear through stuff like tanks and withstand explosions with ease while normal weapons would get torn apart and mooks soldiers would be obliterated.

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That sounds like a nightmarish amalgamation of superheroes and super soldiers. If that's the case, I understand the use of Aura then, seeing as they're all Supermen.

Say, is there a fic where the POV is from some random grunt with a gun fighting besides Hunters? Also, please tell me someone has done a Bloodborne/RWBY crossover.

 

[Azecreth]

Also, please tell me someone has done a Bloodborne/RWBY crossover.

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*Looks at the 54 Bloodborne/RWBY crossovers on FF.Net, not counting whatever is on SV*

Yes, I think someone may have done that crossover.

 

[Hykal94]

*Looks at the 54 Bloodborne/RWBY crossovers on FF.Net, not counting whatever is on SV*

Yes, I think someone may have done that crossover.

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Recommend me something on the more Bloodborne side of things.

 

[Vagabond422]

Say, is there a fic where the POV is from some random grunt with a gun fighting besides Hunters?

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I've had an idea for one happening around the time of the Battle of Beacon. An Altlas grunt get cut off from his squad and links up with some hunters, even have all the names and powers worked out for my hunters. Unfortunately I do not have time to get it written, I hate being an adult sometimes.

 

[Zam]

That sounds like a nightmarish amalgamation of superheroes and super soldiers. If that's the case, I understand the use of Aura then, seeing as they're all Supermen.

Say, is there a fic where the POV is from some random grunt with a gun fighting besides Hunters?

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That's a pretty apt summary of Hunters, well phrased. Though its also important to remember the Grimm are, well a lot more dangerous than we've seen and the tougher ones are insanely durable which is also part of why I imagine certain standard military tactics/weapons aren't as useful against them.

I think there's a few though I cannot think of any off the top of my head save vague impressions.

 

[Xkeizer]

Seeing as team RWBY, a bunch of rookies, can take on one Paladin, it makes me question how effective these mechs are. Say what you will about 40k's mechs, but the Titans have entire armies backing them.

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RWBY are also extremely high end 'rookies' Blake being a former terrorist, Weiss being an heiress whose family can afford the most obscene training including sicking Grim infested mech knights on her while Yang and Ruby were trained by two high level Hunters and grew up in the culture. Similarly I think that speaks more to how powerful Hunters are,not how weak the mechs are.

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It kind of helps that Roman has questionable expirience with the paladin, and three out of four members of the team seem to be moving faster than he can keep up with them. Though as Hykal pointed out with the Titans, the paladins were likely made to be support and not exactly front line fighters.

Or at least not fighting hunters.

 

[RadioactiveSpoon]

Is there a reason for the separation? Hunters are by definition, monster-killing soldiers. It would be wise to combine your spec ops with your main military arm after all.

Also, why are they called Kingdoms? Like I said, still in early season 2, but I have yet to see any mention of royalty.

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Huntsman, upon graduation, aren't actually tied to any particular kingdom. They're free to go wherever they want and choose their own work. The Academies were established to produce soldiers for hunting Grimm, not to serve any particular kingdom.

That's probably got a lot to do with them all having been established in the aftermath of a war, as a part of the peace effort. Atlas was formed later out of the defunct kingdom of Mantle and apparently decided they weren't interested in that, which is why they a) are considered to be the worlds' strongest military power and b) tend to draw a lot of criticism from the other kingdoms.


I have no idea why they're called kingdoms. They're all run by nonspecific off-screen councils. I sort of just assumed it was a holdover from an earlier time and stopped thinking about it.


A good chunk of this stuff is explained in the World of Remnant miniseries. It's worth a look if you want more world-building info.

Seeing as team RWBY, a bunch of rookies, can take on one Paladin, it makes me question how effective these mechs are. Say what you will about 40k's mechs, but the Titans have entire armies backing them.

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Well, that was a singular prototype model being controlled by someone who presumably wasn't trained in using the latest in Atlesian military technology (although Torchwick is a pretty good pilot, so who knows).

Not that later Paladins really do much better.

They probably aren't really designed to fight Huntsmen.

 

[ElMariachi]

Anyway, TL;DR, yes there are robots, but they're as well as Huntsman and the normal military, not instead of.

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Notes that Atlas' long term plan is to completely replace the human soldiers with robots, which will be supervised by human officers protected inside the Paladin mech armor.

Spoiler: Volume III

Of course, Cinder and Co's hacking of the robot army at the end of Volume III probably killed that idea.

I'm only in the early parts of Volume 2, but can someone explain why we don't see more tanks and conventional armies? They got those fancy jets and the like, so why rely on Hunters? I assume they're more or less the badass spec-ops of the world.

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Grimms are extremely resistant to conventional weapons, but very vulnerable to Aura and Dust-based weapons. That's why Hunters are the ones that get to fight the Grimms. Remember in the narration of the beginning of the very first episode: it's said that before humanity discovered Dust and Aura, they were being exterminated by the Grimms without any hope of surviving.
As for why the armies don't go Imperial Guard on the Grimm, drowning them under bullets and explosives, instead of relying to a handfull of Hunters, well let's just say that even then they don't have numerical advantage and that the Grimms living deep within the wilderness outside of the kingdoms' defensive walls are much nastier than what you saw so far.

I think there's a few though I cannot think of any off the top of my head save vague impressions.

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Well, there are the Goliaths that look to be some really mean fuckers, and of course

Spoiler

the Dragon.

 

[Vagabond422]

Grimms are extremely resistant to conventional weapons, but very vulnerable to Aura and Dust-based weapons.

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That's not to say the more Dakka strategy doesn't work as we do see one or two Grimm taken out by conventional small arms fire. It just takes a lot. I'd think standard military strategy against the creatures without Hunters would be something akin to 18th and 19th century combat. Lines of infantry unleashing a storm of bullets on the oncoming hordes.

Would it be as effective as Hunters, no, most decidedly not, but, it would do better than squads spread out over a large area.

 

[Xkeizer]

As for why the armies don't go Imperial Guard on the Grimm, drowning them under bullets and explosives, instead of relying to a handfull of Hunters, well let's just say that even then they don't have numerical advantage and that the Grimms living deep within the wilderness outside of the kingdoms' defensive walls are much nastier than what you saw so far.

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Yeah, the guard works because they've got thousands of planets to draw strength from. Say what you will about specialists, artillery, and their armor corp., but as it goes, millions die every day in the 41st millenium.

Remenant has four main cities and a number of other settlements along with a number of smaller ones that debatably exist at any given time for obvious reasons. And their main foe is an enemy one might consider similar to the Tyranids.

 

[Zam]

I actually learnt somehting interesting about the Atlas mooks guns recently, it may be tied to Aura but even then, apparently their over sized one handed guns still pack enough power to send an armoured soldiers flying through the air like a rag doll. Someone over on SB crunched the numbers, times and angles of the Cinder VS Mook fights and determined it was the gun she forced him to fire that launched the dude while she just froze her other attackers momentum.

 

[Imrix]

Okay, I can give a fuller answer now.

As others have said, part of it is just that Huntresses are seriously hardcore. They've all got some level of a Walking Brick package, with a supplementary superpower. A fully-trained Huntress seems like they'd be entirely capable of ripping a tank to pieces.

That said, you also have to consider the military needs of Remnant civilisations. The bulk of every nations fighting is against the Grimm, a seemingly endless infestation of superhumanly strong and durable monsters bent on exterminating the human race, and attracted to negative emotions. They're animalistic in nature, grow in intelligence and power with age, and they keep humanity confined to fortified safe zones.

Result? Basically any fight human soldiers get into is going to be in an urban or wilderness environment against an enemy that, at some point, will close to melee range. That's a nightmare scenario for a tank. You need something that's fast, can easily traverse rugged terrain, is hyper-lethal at close range from any direction, and can remain combat-effective through extended battle. Huntresses, with their razor-honed reflexes, customised weaponry and Aura-given durability, fit the bill perfectly.

Even if they had the manpower to feasibly create it (and they don't) something like an Imperial Guard regiment is simply far too vulnerable to getting bogged down in rough terrain, attrition, ambush and cumulative mechanical breakdown for the kind of war Remnant is fighting.

Is there a reason for the separation? Hunters are by definition, monster-killing soldiers.

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Strictly speaking, Huntresses aren't soldiers. They're separate from national hierarchies to keep any nation from using them as supersoldiers against the other nations, and they operate more like adventurers and professional heroes.

 

[cB557]

Result? Basically any fight human soldiers get into is going to be in an urban or wilderness environment against an enemy that, at some point, will close to melee range. That's a nightmare scenario for a tank.

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This... depends heavily on the biome. Like, a forest? Yeah, grimm are gonna outmaneuver any tank and close to melee, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't send a tank into a forest in real life anyway, and on any terrain more open than that any tanks are gonna be pretty fucking killy.
I'd think the advantage of Hunters would be that against Grimm they'd be similarly killy as tanks, but they're stealthier and could stay in the field cut off from any supply chain for longer. Like, I'd think a lot of hunter missions would feature tracking down packs of Grimm over periods of several days, and beyond tanks not being the best things for tracking, Hunters would cost a lot less to maintain in the field. Instead of fuel and maintenance, you just need a week's worth of food for each person and a tent or two.

 

[Hykal94]

They're separate from national hierarchies to keep any nation from using them as supersoldiers against the other nations, and they operate more like adventurers and professional heroes.

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Like why?

Hunters are more or less the first line of defense here, the ANBU of Naruto, the elite units of 40k. It surprises me the fact that they're not more militarised.

 

[Imrix]

Like why?

Hunters are more or less the first line of defense here, the ANBU of Naruto, the elite units of 40k. It surprises me the fact that they're not more militarised.

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Because they were militarised, and the constant supersoldier battles made the civil war lurking in semi-recent Remnant history incredibly destructive. The separation of nations and Huntresses is a deliberate attempt to curb further infighting, and ensure there's always someone to combat the Grimm.

 

[firefossil]

Like why?

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As stated above, for basically the same reason the Space Marines don't command the Imperial Guard in WH40K. Its to ensure that they remain pointed at the existential exterior threat, rather than be used for political conflicts between the human nations, or decide that maybe society should be a hunterocracy.

Remember that this is a setting where bad feelings results in you aggroing or possibly even spawning monsters. Being militarized might give you more troops, but it also will result in a less happy society. This is probably why the nations of Remnant haven't gone on a total war footing despite the endless existential threat of the Grimm.

 

[Hykal94]

Because they were militarised, and it made the last civil war incredibly destructive. The separation of nations and Huntresses is a deliberate attempt to curb further infighting, and ensure there's always someone to combat the Grimm.

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Oh crap there was a civil war?! I need to go further into volume 2 then.

But surely having too "loose" of a Grimm specialist is also problematic. It's like having a system in the Witcher, where the only dedicated monster hunters of the world are waaaay too far apart and stretched out, and having an elite cadre of battle mages like in a lot of fantasy world.

I guess the most optimal solution is Hunters being their own Grey Warden-like organisation, being called upon when the need arises, or has that happened before too?

As stated above, for basically the same reason the Space Marines don't command the Imperial Guard in WH40K.

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But the Space Marines too answer to a higher power, they are not all powerful compared to the Inquisition. Surely all nations have their own Hunter military arm that's seperate from everyone else.

Unless all of these result in failures and every time that happens they become the corrupted late Jannisaries of the setting.

 

[Azecreth]

Oh crap there was a civil war?! I need to go further into volume 2 then.

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We don't really know anything about it, so you're not missing much. It was just about freedom vs order, with the freedom applying to some people more than others as evidenced by the 'Let's deport all the Faunus on the planet o the equivalent of Australia' plan.

 

[Imrix]

But surely having too "loose" of a Grimm specialist is also problematic. It's like having a system in the Witcher, where the only dedicated monster hunters of the world are waaaay too far apart and stretched out, and having an elite cadre of battle mages like in a lot of fantasy world.

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Yes, but those are medieval fantasy worlds. Remnant has intercontinental communications, a form of internet, and smartphones. Nations can't order Huntresses around, but Huntresses can certainly coordinate their efforts.

But the Space Marines too answer to a higher power, they are not all powerful compared to the Inquisition.

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That's actually something of a recent background change. If you go back more than a couple of editions, Astartes weren't technically subject to the Inquisitions authority - this was actually something that made both institutions step very carefully around each other, because neither wanted to risk the conflict necessary to truly settle the issue, to say nothing of the risk of losing. So Inquisitors generally made polite requests of the Space Marines, and Space Marines would allow that Inquisitors were usually best-informed about what battles would best allow them to fulfill their own mandate, and both grumbled about each others arrogant presumption in private.

Sometimes an Inquisitor tried to order the Angels of Death around and tempers flared and the Inquisitor either suffered an 'accident', or more sensible Inquisitors got involved to make it clear that the first one was a hothead and an idiot, please ignore him, but seriously this is a very important battle so please send over a Strike Cruiser, for the Imperium's sake?

I'm given to understand that this has become somewhat less true as the game has gone on.

Surely all nations have their own Hunter military arm that's seperate from everyone else.

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Atlas aside, they do not. Individual Huntresses certainly have some national loyalties (they were all born somewhere, after all) and there are probably people roughly as powerful as Huntresses serving in each nations militia armies. But as an institution, the Huntresses are intended to be apolitical. The entire point of having Hunter academies was to split them off from the kingdoms.

 

[Hykal94]

Yes, but those are medieval fantasy worlds. Remnant has intercontinental communications, a form of internet, and smartphones. Nations can't order Huntresses around, but Huntresses can certainly coordinate their efforts.

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Ah, but I can argue that there such communications in Witcher (with the mirrors) and telepathic messages, while not set in stone in Elder Scrolls, do exist. Also, series where calling people up with a scroll like in DnD is no big deal.

In which case, Hunters seem to more resemble the Hero's Association from One Punch Man or looser qualifications of the League/Avengers in DC and Marvel.

That's actually something of a recent background change. If you go back more than a couple of editions, Astartes weren't technically subject to the Inquisitions authority - this was actually something that made both institutions step very carefully around each other, because neither wanted to risk the conflict necessary to truly settle the issue, to say nothing of the risk of losing. So Inquisitors generally made polite requests of the Space Marines, and Space Marines would allow that Inquisitors were usually best-informed about what battles would best allow them to fulfill their own mandate, and both grumbled about each others arrogant presumption in private.

Sometimes an Inquisitor tried to order the Angels of Death around and tempers flared and the Inquisitor either suffered an 'accident', or more sensible Inquisitors got involved to make it clear that the first one was a hothead and an idiot, please ignore him, but seriously this is a very important battle so please send over a Strike Cruiser, for the Imperium's sake?

I'm given to understand that this has become somewhat less true as the game has gone on.

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Well regardless whether it was true or not, it does make sense in canon. The Astartes Legion, extremely powerful armies with their own command at the beginning, became less and less powerful as the series went on, due to lack of geneseeds, smaller numbers, and the Inquisition's far superior authority.

Atlas aside, they do not. Individual Huntresses certainly have some national loyalties (they were all born somewhere, after all) and there are probably people roughly as powerful as Huntresses serving in each nations militia armies. But as an institution, the Huntresses are intended to be apolitical. The entire point of having Hunter academies was to split them off from the kingdoms.

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The Civil War reason makes sense to limit their power (even if it seems to not be fleshed out), but again, something Justice League-ish exists too right? Besides, what's stopping rogue psycho Hunters going out of their way and killing everyone? Has this happened in canon?

 

[Zam]

The Civil War reason makes sense to limit their power (even if it seems to not be fleshed out), but again, something Justice League-ish exists too right? Besides, what's stopping rogue psycho Hunters going out of their way and killing everyone? Has this happened in canon?

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As it stands it seems the closest thing to an 'authority' over Hunters are the various academies, who are likely responsible for dealing with Hunters or high level Aura trained individuals who go off the rails as they're the only one's equipped to do so. However beyond supplying training and resources the Academies don't command Hunters once they graduate unless they go and get a job there. Its seemingly to limit the chances of anyone just being granted control of an army of super people, better to make Hunting a job without a strict hierarchy or strict controls lest someone decide to guide hundreds of united super people into conquering a kingdom for their own reason. The adventure style Hunters are unite by culture, training and careers but under no obligation to follow anyone's orders save the laws everyone else has to follow.

 

[Imrix]

Ah, but I can argue that there such communications in Witcher (with the mirrors) and telepathic messages, while not set in stone in Elder Scrolls, do exist. Also, series where calling people up with a scroll like in DnD is no big deal.

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That kind of communication exists in those settings, yeah, but it isn't ubiquitous. Mages talk to each other via mirrors, but kings send out messengers, armies rely on couriers, most people use physical post. Remnant has smartphones, and they're about as common as in our own world.

Like, if Geralt wants to find a contract, he has to ride from town to town and check the bulletin boards. If a Huntress wants to find out where the nearest trouble spot is, there's probably an app for that.

The Civil War reason makes sense to limit their power (even if it seems to not be fleshed out), but again, something Justice League-ish exists too right?

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Kinda. The heads of the assorted academies keep in regular contact, and there's clearly some coordination between them, but no, there's no international hunting organisation providing grand-level direction. Hunters and Huntresses simply do not have top-down coordination, by all appearances. They're independent agents with ready access to all the information they could need, and they probably have either a generous income or limited requisitional powers to get around the world. They're kind of like Council Spectres - technically answerable to humanity as a whole (or maybe some form of United Nations analogue, or the Hunter Academies?) but in practice they mostly do their own thing.

I mean i don't think they have formal authority to break local law, but Huntress is pretty clearly a high-prestige job, so I doubt anybody would try to arrest Oobleck if he tore up a city street while yelling about how he doesn't have enough coffee to deal with this latest problem, because clearly he's a Hunter in the middle of saving people.

Besides, what's stopping rogue psycho Hunters going out of their way and killing everyone?

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Nothing, if you don't count the rigorous training, thorough cultural education about their role in society, the adulation of the masses for their heroic deeds, the constant threat of annihilation of the human race by Grimm, and I guess other Huntresses might hunt them down like any other monster.

The Astartes Legion, extremely powerful armies with their own command at the beginning, became less and less powerful as the series went on

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No, I mean it was retconned. There was no in-universe progression of the Astartes/Inquisition relationship, the writers changed what the relationship is and always was over the publication history.

 

[Hykal94]

As it stands it seems the closest thing to an 'authority' over Hunters are the various academies, who are likely responsible for dealing with Hunters or high level Aura trained individuals who go off the rails as they're the only one's equipped to do so. However beyond supplying training and resources the Academies don't command Hunters once they graduate unless they go and get a job there. Its seemingly to limit the chances of anyone just being granted control of an army of super people, better to make Hunting a job without a strict hierarchy or strict controls lest someone decide to guide hundreds of united super people into conquering a kingdom for their own reason. The adventure style Hunters are unite by culture, training and careers but under no obligation to follow anyone's orders save the laws everyone else has to follow.

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Interesting.

This whole dynamic of anyone being able to become Supermen very much reminds me of Avatar. It seems most of the world are Benders by birth and can become great through training but Remnant can have anyone develop very strong Auras. But you do see in the case of Benders, they are not all powerful Supermen whereas I think team RWBY can very much take on the Gaang.

I don't know about you, but if I see a Hunter walking down the street, I'd be absolutely scared of them compared to a Bender.