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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • My understanding is that they need/want more people on the site as it will let them follow traffic figures which will let them justify their shows and money spent to their shareholders.
     
    Carrnage said:
    only if you believe there's two groups in a system built for 3 groups.
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    There were always 3 groups. Sponsors, non-sponsors who watch on the site, and non-sponsors who watch on youtube due to issues with the RT player.

    Anyone watching on the RT site is capable of making an account, and thus remains in the same group. If they can't spend the two seconds necessary to make an account they're effectively joining the youtube viewership, who already got episodes a week later.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    So hey, how about that Final Fantasy comparison?
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    I don't really know enough about FF, even with you well thought out explanations on the subject, to offer a comment with nay real depth, but I found it to be very interesting.

    Honestly I thought you were going a different direction at first, planning on saying that Roman/criminals, the White Fang and the SDC should have been the focus over a genocidal jerk, though I may have been projecting old expectations there. However your final explanation about how the negative way people treat each other and the villains methods of basically 'trying' to make people worse so as to win rather than the world and the people in it already being garbage were well thought out.
     
    Yeah, the point about Salem and Cinder, I feel, is that they are meant to embody (perhaps to the logical extreme) the person who is willing to kill, steal, and destroy to get what they want, even when doing so works against their own happiness.

    Just as the problems in Suikoden II were bigger than Luca Blight and not really solved by his death, killing Salem and Cinder isn't going to solve faunus inequality, or Schnee business practices, or the fostered distrust between kingdoms.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    Yeah, the point about Salem and Cinder, I feel, is that they are meant to embody (perhaps to the logical extreme) the person who is willing to kill, steal, and destroy to get what they want, even when doing so works against their own happiness.

    Just as the problems in Suikoden II were bigger than Luca Blight and not really solved by his death, killing Salem and Cinder isn't going to solve faunus inequality, or Schnee business practices, or the fostered distrust between kingdoms.
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    An interesting idea, plus it reminds me of Roman's own line though the differences unsurprisingly put his 'league' of self serving at a slightly lower level than theirs but the comparisons work and I can follow the idea in how it compares to the characters. They either don't care about the damage they cause, or even have learnt to actively relish in it regardless of the personal or worldly cost.

    I never played that game, but yes I definitely see what you're talking about there, its a well thought out perspective and one I find myself agreeing with.
     
    Zam said:
    Honestly I thought you were going a different direction at first, planning on saying that Roman/criminals, the White Fang and the SDC should have been the focus over a genocidal jerk,
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    Well in a sense they are: Roman and his criminal associates as well as the White Fang are just tools used by Cinder, who in turn is Salem's subordinate, and from her little speech at the end of Volume III, she is a genocidal jerk.
     
    ElMariachi said:
    Well in a sense they are: Roman and his criminal associates as well as the White Fang are just tools used by Cinder, who in turn is Salem's subordinate, and from her little speech at the end of Volume III, she is a genocidal jerk.
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    Sorry I explained myself poorly. I meant I thought Sunder was suggesting that criminals, the White Fang and more...not mundane, but less genocidal/insane villains should have been the focus.
     
    Zam said:
    Sorry I explained myself poorly. I meant I thought Sunder was suggesting that criminals, the White Fang and more...not mundane, but less genocidal/insane villains should have been the focus.
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    Agreed. Genocidal villains are in my opinion usually really bland and uninteresting where as Roman the White Fang and the politics of Remnant(seriously super powered civil war) were much more interesting.
     
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    Tython82 said:
    Agreed. Genocidal villains are in my opinion usually really blandand uninteresting where as Roman the White Fang and the politics of Remnant(seriously super powered civil war) were much more interesting.
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    I'm going to wait and see how it goes myself, though I can't deny I still hold an affection for my 'RWBY=Fantasy The Wire' idea. But I can sympathsie with where you're coming from, I recall a TV Tropes 'rule' which basically went "Do not introduce time travel, giant robots or Eldrich Abominations into your story, otherwise that is all the story will become about" which may or may not apply here for some fans/the writers, and may have been intentional, might not have been, I guess we'll see.
     
    Zam said:
    Sorry I explained myself poorly. I meant I thought Sunder was suggesting that criminals, the White Fang and more...not mundane, but less genocidal/insane villains should have been the focus.
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    Oh, I see, well something like that is still possible: Roman is dead, and the (apparently) real big bad of the story (Salem) just appeared, so it's possible that from now on the setting will center on her, leaving the White Fang plot thread hanging behind, or they can be destroyed by Salem who don't need them anymore and the story completely be about destroying her.
    Remember that it's exactly how it was in the Final Fantasy games that @Sunder the Gold was talking about: first you have an original setting with down-to-earth antagonists (foreign evil empire, global dictatorship...) and their own geopolitics, and then it all get swept aside by an outlandish eldritch abomination that wants to destroy the world and everything now revolves around beating that thing to save the world, the rest of the setting completely forgotten: in FF6 you had the evil empire swept aside by Kefka, in FF6 you had Shinra swept aside by Sephiroth, in FF8 you had the Galbadia-Esthar war swept aside by Ultimecia, in FF9 it's Queen Brahne and the Kingdom of Alexandria that's swept aside for Kuja's omnicidal tantrum...

    And while I trust the creators of RWBY to avoid this trap, we're still not safe from Adam, the White Fang, Cinder & Co, the tension between kingdoms and the discrimination against Faunus plots to be all swept aside in favor of a single plot that's to destroy Salem and that it will save the world and fix all its problems. Well, I have no doubt that Salem will be the final boss (maybe) and that the entire world's safety depends on it, but as long as the RWBY staff don't forget about the others problems that Salem's death won't magically solve, I'm good.
     
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    ElMariachi said:
    And while I trust the creators of RWBY to avoid this trap, we're still not safe from Adam, the White Fang, Cinder & Co, the tension between kingdoms and the discrimination against Faunus plots to be all swept aside in favor of a single plot that's to destroy Salem and that it will save the world and fix all its problems. Well, I have no doubt that Salem will be the final boss (maybe) and that the entire world depends on it, but as long as the RWBY staff don't forget about the others problems that Salem's death won't magically solve, I'm good.
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    Agreed with pretty much all of this, given Sunder's points about Salem exacerbating these problems, I've actually gained some confidence RT won't just treat Salem's death as a fix all and in may respects I'm thinking the splitting of RWBY may have been done with this in mind as well, RNJR focus on Salem, Blake, Grim/White Fang, Weiss the SDC and the White Fang, Yang presumably criminals and her team.
     
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    [Discussion] Chibi Season 1, Episode 1
  • Threadmarks
    • Apologies for the Double Post but RWBY Chibi has begun.

    Haha!

    Now that's a katana!

    Yang's victory face is grand.

    Poor Blake XD

    Edit:

    Uuh... Are people actually taking cues on the characters based on RWBY Chibi? Ugh, I knew this would happen and dreaded it.

    I suppose this means Ruby can't can't move a spoon in cookie dough either
     
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    • Ruby, no, you're too young to read that!
     
    r0b0panda said:
    Ruby, no, you're too young to read that!
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    Now, you're probably joking here, but I know a lot of people hold that view unironically, so for them I'm going to say: she's 15, not 5. She's well into puberty by now and long past the point when most people learn about sex. If she didn't know about that kind of stuff right now, I'd call it unrealistic. Ruby's idealistic, kind of naive, and has issues with social stuff like distinguishing sarcasm, but that doesn't mean she's ignorant and blind to the world around her.
     

    So does the fold out look like a woman to anyone else?

    Heck it leaves me wondering if Chibi Blake's weapon was inspired by the characters given how it looks... or the author saw Blake at some point and based a book on her XD
     
    Zam said:

    So does the fold out look like a woman to anyone else?

    Heck it leaves me wondering if Chibi Blake's weapon was inspired by the characters given how it looks... or the author saw Blake at some point and based a book on her XD
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    What I love about the image is Ruby's face and pose. She knows exactly what she's looking at and enjoys it. Honestly, that's the most stereotypical "girly" look I've ever seen Ruby give.
     
    Xero Key said:
    What I love about the image is Ruby's face and pose. She knows exactly what she's looking at and enjoys it. Honestly, that's the most stereotypical "girly" look I've ever seen Ruby give.
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    Never exactly been overjoyed at Ruby being "stereotypically girly" myself, though given it looks like a woman I'd say she either actually is looking at the katana or is defying norms regardless.
     
    ElMariachi said:
    Oh, I see, well something like that is still possible: Roman is dead, and the (apparently) real big bad of the story (Salem) just appeared, so it's possible that from now on the setting will center on her, leaving the White Fang plot thread hanging behind, or they can be destroyed by Salem who don't need them anymore and the story completely be about destroying her.
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    The thing that gives me hope are the arc words of RWBY: "There will be no victory in strength."

    I feel this is foreshadowing how killing Salem and Cinder won't save the world. It will stop them from continuing to make things worse, but it won't actually FIX anything. The kingdoms will still distrust each other, people will still blame and fear all faunus because of the White Fang, many persecuted faunus will hate or fear normal humans enough to join the White Fang, no one will ever trust robot armies quite the same way again if at all, getting someone like Penny accepted by the kingdoms is going to be harder than ever, and all the while the Grimm are just going nuts with all the lingering negativity.

    Even stopping Cinder and Salem before their attack wouldn't have saved the world. The Grimm would still exist, there are still bad egg hunters out there, there are still drunken fathers breaking down their sons' souls, there are still hungry orphans in the streets stealing food and growing up mean and hateful, there are still murdering crooks like Roman and Neo, and the radicalized, human-hating White Fang were already a thing.

    Remember what Blake and Ruby said to each other.

    "Unfortunately, the world isn't the same as a fairy tale."

    "Well, that's why we're here. To make it better."

    Not, "to kill the bad guy" or "to win the fight". To make the world a better place.

    And remember how Ozpin responded to Salem's arc words. "Or perhaps, victory is in the simpler things you've long forgotten. Things that require a smaller, more honest soul."

    "Victory is in a simple soul."

    I have no doubt that Ruby and her friends will defeat Cinder and Salem, but I think the way that they're going to save the world is by INSPIRING IT. By reminding the four kingdoms of the world they want to BE. Reminding them of the simpler, more honest things they forgot in their distrust, fear, blame, hate, and greed.

    To forgive, to trust, to cooperate, and to move on.

    I actually hope this ties into redemption arcs for Emerald and Mercury -- primarily just to encapsulate and underscore these lessons on a personal scale with two people who had everything in the world stacked against them and so went on to make the world an even worse place where more children would end up like them.

    I want these two to realize that they are perpetuating the very kind of world that they BLAME for creating them. I want them to denounce their own hypocrisy by repenting.
     
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