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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • I finally keyed into why the Ice Queendom dub voices are throwing me, its cos they've gone back to their V1 voices over the more recent stuff and it was weirding me out on a subconscious level. Hearing Nega Blake's voice and the raw intensity of it, mingled with Adam's edgy vibes is what finally keyed me in.
     
    And next to her, Weiss is getting more and more annoyed...

    But my headcanon is that Weiss is more similar to Ruby than she'll ever admit, and it's taking everything she has just to be focused. And then Ruby starts tapping her feet....
     
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    So, one thing that's amusing me lately is the comments for a fic I'm reading set V2 early v3, where several readers are insisting that certain stations of canon HAVE to happen. Not in the sense of A leading to B because it makes sense, but they're insisting Ironwood has to 'go crazy' (their words) even when it's looking like the Fall of Beacon won't happen. It's as blind and willfully ignorant as the 'Ironwood was always in the moral right no matter what's crowd.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    So, one thing that's amusing me lately is the comments for a fic I'm reading set V2 early v3, where several readers are insisting that certain stations of canon HAVE to happen. Not in the sense of A leading to B because it makes sense, but they're insisting Ironwood has to 'go crazy' (their words) even when it's looking like the Fall of Beacon won't happen. It's as blind and willfully ignorant as the 'Ironwood was always in the moral right no matter what's crowd.
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    On one hand, it's extremely common for writers to do stations of canon for multiple reasons beyond just the excuse of "it's to be expected" or "the plot wouldn't happen otherwise"...

    But on the other hand, considering how a lot of essays on Ironwood talk about how his villainy began with him bringing an army into Vale or backstabbing Ozpin or basically interpreting all his actions in Volumes 2 & 3 to be some form of maliciousness to justify his fall in the later Volumes, it might be the case of witnessing the 'Ironwood was always in the moral wrong no matter what' crowd in a scenario where Ironwood wouldn't end up being like that.
     
    Yeah, there's something to that. I see it as Salem deliberately exploiting his existing trust issues, with them developing into the full blown paranoia we see later on. In a setting where he learns of Watts survival and treachery before Beacon falls, that plan would lose a lot of it's effectiveness. He knows who's to blame. Its even better when he has proof.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    But on the other hand, considering how a lot of essays on Ironwood talk about how his villainy began with him bringing an army into Vale or backstabbing Ozpin or basically interpreting all his actions in Volumes 2 & 3 to be some form of maliciousness to justify his fall in the later Volumes, it might be the case of witnessing the 'Ironwood was always in the moral wrong no matter what' crowd in a scenario where Ironwood wouldn't end up being like that.
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    Those acts were generally shifty at best, but he would probably be more an ally who causes issues but can still be talked into not being a dick without the extra trauma from the Fall.
     
    Zam said:
    It says a lot that this is the level of 'quality' one can expect:
    www.tumblr.com

    This website suuuuuucks

    It tells you everything you need to know that RWBY is rife with things to critcise and yet the "problems" RWDE like to zero in on all amount to that the female cast are all bitches who should be less…
    www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com
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    Stuff like this really shows how fundamentally shallow a lot of fans are and how they don't even really try to read the criticism they despise so much, or just go off strawmen that they build in their heads.

    One of the biggest criticisms of Season 8 was that RWBY weren't assertive enough. Most if not all of the major criticism pieces of the season have pointed out how Ruby, Weiss and Blake were all trapped in the Schnee Manor for the majority of the season (roughly seven entire episodes) because the writers (three of whom are men, reminder, and who were directly writing every episode that saw RWB be locked in the house) decided that all three of the girls needed to stay around and keep an eye on Nora.

    Blake especially was given no agency in the season already and continued a three-season long streak of losing fights so other characters could save her. The writers themselves reduced Blake to a damsel in distress, which itself garnred a lot of criticism after the fight with the spitter for stripping Blake of agency. Even after a scene where May directly tells them to do something, the plot forces them to stay inside and miss out on the Salem/Whale events by having Penny crash land so that the girls can conveniently be out to the way to allow Oscar and Hazel to fight Salem.

    To say nothing of the absolute nuclear reaction from the critics when Penny's agency and assertiveness was thrown out by the writers so they could do a hackneyed death scene and have her be shoved into a fridge, which is still one of the most outright mysogynistic scenes of the entire show that has no valid defenses (and, you know, the whole undercurrent of suicide apologism that permeates Penny's death).

    It is provably false that the problem with season 8 that many critics had was "that the female cast are all bitches who should be less assertive." The critics want RWBY to be more assertive in fact! That's why character bloat has been criticised so extensively, for taking focus away from the girls. It's why Ozcar as a character has been criticised, because he existed in the Anima seasons as a way to keep the girls from making choices for themselves. It's been a criticism that Team RWBY get sidelined in almost every season of the show, going all the way back to the Docks fight in Season 1 where Sun and Penny hijack the finale. Yang didn't even have a character arc before Season 4, for Christ's sake.

    It does not make critics sexist for pointing out how often that happens, it usually points to the writers themselves having outdated views and/or bad priority management that means RWBY are frequently shunted aside in their own show.
     
    ArtFartCop said:
    Stuff like this really shows how fundamentally shallow a lot of fans are and how they don't even really try to read the criticism they despise so much, or just go off strawmen that they build in their heads.

    One of the biggest criticisms of Season 8 was that RWBY weren't assertive enough. Most if not all of the major criticism pieces of the season have pointed out how Ruby, Weiss and Blake were all trapped in the Schnee Manor for the majority of the season (roughly seven entire episodes) because the writers (three of whom are men, reminder, and who were directly writing every episode that saw RWB be locked in the house) decided that all three of the girls needed to stay around and keep an eye on Nora.

    Blake especially was given no agency in the season already and continued a three-season long streak of losing fights so other characters could save her. The writers themselves reduced Blake to a damsel in distress, which itself garnred a lot of criticism after the fight with the spitter for stripping Blake of agency. Even after a scene where May directly tells them to do something, the plot forces them to stay inside and miss out on the Salem/Whale events by having Penny crash land so that the girls can conveniently be out to the way to allow Oscar and Hazel to fight Salem.

    To say nothing of the absolute nuclear reaction from the critics when Penny's agency and assertiveness was thrown out by the writers so they could do a hackneyed death scene and have her be shoved into a fridge, which is still one of the most outright mysogynistic scenes of the entire show that has no valid defenses (and, you know, the whole undercurrent of suicide apologism that permeates Penny's death).

    It is provably false that the problem with season 8 that many critics had was "that the female cast are all bitches who should be less assertive." The critics want RWBY to be more assertive in fact! That's why character bloat has been criticised so extensively, for taking focus away from the girls. It's why Ozcar as a character has been criticised, because he existed in the Anima seasons as a way to keep the girls from making choices for themselves. It's been a criticism that Team RWBY get sidelined in almost every season of the show, going all the way back to the Docks fight in Season 1 where Sun and Penny hijack the finale. Yang didn't even have a character arc before Season 4, for Christ's sake.

    It does not make critics sexist for pointing out how often that happens, it usually points to the writers themselves having outdated views and/or bad priority management that means RWBY are frequently shunted aside in their own show.
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    This always annoys me to no end. When critics point out that MAYBE, just MAYBE there are some sus things about the writing of RWBY in regards of writing their female cast, LGBT+ cast, people of colour cast etc. That is used to attack the critics instead.

    Like for example, when i pointed out that Hanlon Fifestone from the RWBY: Arowfell game was a black man who is also an union leader, is made to growl during dialogue, is shown to enjoy torturing a worker, is shown to cause destruction after being captured, and his character design is literally just a pirate/bandit outfit, for pointing that out i was called racist. Because i pointed those things out that RWBY: Arowfell did.


    It genuinely reminds me of how certain political groups often hid their bigoted views behind dogwhistles, and if you recognized those dogwhistles and called them out, those people would see YOU as the problem for noticing those dogwhistles. Its just all so annoying.
     
    ArtFartCop said:
    which is still one of the most outright misogynistic scenes of the entire show that has no valid defenses (and, you know, the whole undercurrent of suicide apologism that permeates Penny's death).

    It's been a criticism that Team RWBY get sidelined in almost every season of the show, going all the way back to the Docks fight in Season 1 where Sun and Penny hijack the finale.
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    Not to mention ableist and goes against the entire narrative of "You think just because you've got nuts and bolts instead of squishy guts makes you any less real than me?".

    Hell, even before that when we had Jaune take up 4 episodes and thus is why Yang didn't get as much focus in Volume 1 as she had.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Not to mention ableist and goes against the entire narrative of "You think just because you've got nuts and bolts instead of squishy guts makes you any less real than me?".
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    I'd argue it was more proving truly that she was real, in that she manifested a body on her own, and that it was human because she always wanted to experience being flesh and blood. Although I can entirely see how one could reach a more negative view of that part.


    Psyga315 said:
    Hell, even before that when we had Jaune take up 4 episodes and thus is why Yang didn't get as much focus in Volume 1 as she had.
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    Jaundice was only two episodes, and that mistake the creators owned up to at least. They planned initially to have more episodic arcs in V2 as well, and did that one first because Pyrhhas death was always planned. Feedback led to them doing volume 2 differently.
     
    Guess who's baaaack~
    www.tumblr.com

    Help

    Says the voice in his head SEE?!? EXACTLY!!
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    It do indeed be fucked up:
    www.tumblr.com

    Help

    ... Well jesus Hey kid, my name is Professor Ozpin. I was murdered recently and our souls were combined against either of our wills! You will never know a moments rest as your identity comes more i…
    www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com

    Warm Tones, but both are sad:
    www.tumblr.com

    Help

    *through gritted teeth* OH YAY TIME FOR WEISS ANGST MY FAVOURITE That being said, I love the juxtaposition of all the warm tones in Oscar’s bedroom compared to all the cool tones in Weiss’s. That…
    www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com
     
    Zam said:
    It do indeed be fucked up:
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    You know, it always surprised me how many people assumed Ozpin was doing this intentionally of his own will and could stop any time he wanted before the whole origin story was explained. Because my immediate thought was, "Oh, this is some kind of curse or spell that was placed on him." Because even leaving aside all the obvious ethical and moral concerns, this is easily one of the shittiest forms of immortality that isn't just a blatant fate worse than death, for both parties.
     
    Leingod said:
    You know, it always surprised me how many people assumed Ozpin was doing this intentionally of his own will and could stop any time he wanted before the whole origin story was explained. Because my immediate thought was, "Oh, this is some kind of curse or spell that was placed on him." Because even leaving aside all the obvious ethical and moral concerns, this is easily one of the shittiest forms of immortality that isn't just a blatant fate worse than death, for both parties.
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    I wasn't aware of that was a thing. I thought people had suspicions about other stuff he might be or have done wrong, but I wasn't aware people thought he could just vamoose out of Oscar's head if he wanted, cos yeah, Oscar is pretty far from an ideal candidate if he did have any control over it.
     
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    Zam said:
    I wasn't aware of that was a thing. I thought people had suspicions about other stuff he might be or have done wrong, but I wasn't aware people thought he could just vamoose out of Oscar's head if he wanted, cos yeah, Oscar is pretty far from an ideal candidate if he did have any control over it.
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    He'd show up in Ironwoods head. "OH WHAT THE FUCK JAMES?!"
     
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