RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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Mansion:
It matters little if the length of time they sat in the house is 24 hours when the city is under siege and other characters are shown to be fighting/helping people at that time. Its not as if nothing is happening at that time. And being wanted by the military did not stop others, why does it stop Ruby and the rest? It just makes them look severely unheroic to find all of these excuses to not fight to save people when they could.

Blake:
And yet Blake constantly loses fights, and has to be constantly saved. Even during the Adam fight she needs to be saved. This even extends to not combat situations and Volume 6 spends a lot of time on Weiss being a white knight for Blake while Blake is just on the sidelines. Or how Nora takes over Blakes activist position. Blake is sadly very much made into almost a non-character these days.

Assertive:
The protagonists have forced their way onto others multiple times. They do so constantly. So i do not even understand this kind of defense. What people want is our heroes.... To be heroic. And in Volumes 6-8 there are many moments where people look at team RWBY, and don't see heroes.

Ableism:
This is just a repurposed "I have a black friend" defense. Recently Disney released an animated movie with an LGBT+ character. That movie was almost completely not advertised. Should i say that Disney is as progressive company because they have LGBT+ characters?

In my opinion, the writers literally using the whole "Prosthetics = less human" trope is already bad, especially in modern times where its recognized that the trope is harmful. The only main disabled character is Yang (If i recall correctly), Pietro and Maria are side characters that were quickly almost completely written out quickly.

Penny:
Penny turning into a human was a complete destruction and spitting on the old message. Penny since Volume 2 was an AMAZING symbolic character for people who are considered to be "out of norm". LGBT+ people, people with disabilities etc. Ruby reaffirms Pennys humanity by talking about whats inside, not outside. That is a STRONG message of acceptance.

And then Penny is turned into a human, completely destroying that message by now saying "Yeah, you can be accepted, but its still better if you physically change". Its disgusting. This isn't about Penny making a choice, Penny had no choice. The writers created that entire situation. They didn't have to, but they did.

Mansion
Length does matter because it is part of the context. Another part is the injured Nora.
Everything they tried to work for had gone down the tube. They are now wanted criminals. Ruby and the group were divided on what to do. They reluctantly split into 2 groups. And now they just survived a second round with the AceOps and now have a severely injured friend and no healer. Now Salem herself is parked on Atlas. Ruby herself is shown to be near the end of her rope and struggling to figure out what the next course of action should be to save the people of both cities, all while being pressured from 2 sides to "Pick a side". If she picks Atlas then she has to give up Penny and sacrifice everyone down in Mantle. If she picks Mantle that means trying to fight an army and possibly risk everything getting worse. She can't pick at the time because she is afraid of screwing up, and the clock is ticking.

Blake
I don't see how Blake "losing" fights is any worse than Weiss having basically no win herself until her fight against Marrow in V7. Not to mention that Atlas Blake is still a touch rattled by having killed Adam back in V6. There is nothing wrong with her not wanting to risk a fight with a drunk, not to mention they are trying to keep a low profile. Weiss chucking the drunk was just the first showing of Weiss not willing to put up with anyone's BS while in Atlas. For Nora she has always been one of the more vocal people in the group. Given what Blake had been through in the previous volumes (4-6) I don't think it is odd they let Blake rest action wise while in turn giving members of JNR time in the spotlight.

Assertive
I don't think they have forced their way on other. Instead they have had a goal, and aimed for it. They needed to get to Atlas, but Qrow tried to talk them out of Jaune's plan. Ruby answered back basically saying she was going to hear him out and that they would come up with a plan, and that they would be happy to have him. When faced with Cordovin Ruby explained that they were only stealing the ship because Cordo was not giving them any other choice, and when that whole mess brought grimm to Argus Ruby and friends jumped right back into the fray to defend the city even when the army told them they would get no aid, and Ruby's words and bravery stirred Cordo enough for the short-stack specialist to give Ruby a chance and they parted on good terms. In Atlas they, again, did not force their way on anyone. If anything things went to hell in a handbasket because Ironwood refused to be swayed in the end.

Ableism
The commentary of "removing his humanity" makes sense to me with the context of the show. To stop Watts Ironwood basically flayed his own hand and arm to break free and grab the weasel. "I will do whatever it takes." And he does (or at least tries to). To put himself back in working order he has the flayed hand/arm replaced with a new and hurried prosthetic. To get Winter back in working order he got her into that brace. What is something we learned about Atlas and the Ace Ops? You are replaceable. If someone dies, a new person is swapped in. Just like how Marrow replaced Tortuga if Harriet short yet emotional vent is to be believed. Ironwood I think even at one point questioned if Salem lacking a heart is what made her strong. This is what I think the CRWBY meant by what they said. It's not so much "Prosthetics = less human" it's the context of the meaning of the replacements. Yang took time to rest and even debated putting the arm on after she got it. Maria retired from the field and quietly slipped away after she lost her eyes and even after eventually getting her prosthetics did not rejoin the fight until the present day. Ironwood, on the other hand, just swapped to a new metal hand and powered on like a machine. Metal as hell, but not good for one's mental health, which is bad when you are trying to lead an army and not let anyone question you.

Penny
Are we just ignoring what all of Team RWBY was telling Ambro when they were talking to him during the Penny part of the plan?
They didn't tell him to take her soul and plop it in a flesh body. The way they worded it basically left Penny as just the soul that had been in the metal shell and when Ambro was unsure of what would happen I think Ruby said "Well, I guess you'll have to get creative." And thus a blue fairy gave Pinocchio the "real" human body.

oh and as for "The writers created that entire situation. They didn't have to, but they did." Welcome to writing any story whatsoever. Because ALL writers make the situations in their stories. Did George Lucas had to have Obi-wan die? Did he have to make Jar-Jar Binks a thing? Nope, but he did. Did George R.R. Martin have to keep killing characters? Nope, but he did. Did The Legend of Korra have to exist? Nope, but it was made. Etc. etc.
 
Mansion
Length does matter because it is part of the context. Another part is the injured Nora.
Everything they tried to work for had gone down the tube. They are now wanted criminals. Ruby and the group were divided on what to do. They reluctantly split into 2 groups. And now they just survived a second round with the AceOps and now have a severely injured friend and no healer. Now Salem herself is parked on Atlas. Ruby herself is shown to be near the end of her rope and struggling to figure out what the next course of action should be to save the people of both cities, all while being pressured from 2 sides to "Pick a side". If she picks Atlas then she has to give up Penny and sacrifice everyone down in Mantle. If she picks Mantle that means trying to fight an army and possibly risk everything getting worse. She can't pick at the time because she is afraid of screwing up, and the clock is ticking.

Blake
I don't see how Blake "losing" fights is any worse than Weiss having basically no win herself until her fight against Marrow in V7. Not to mention that Atlas Blake is still a touch rattled by having killed Adam back in V6. There is nothing wrong with her not wanting to risk a fight with a drunk, not to mention they are trying to keep a low profile. Weiss chucking the drunk was just the first showing of Weiss not willing to put up with anyone's BS while in Atlas. For Nora she has always been one of the more vocal people in the group. Given what Blake had been through in the previous volumes (4-6) I don't think it is odd they let Blake rest action wise while in turn giving members of JNR time in the spotlight.

Assertive
I don't think they have forced their way on other. Instead they have had a goal, and aimed for it. They needed to get to Atlas, but Qrow tried to talk them out of Jaune's plan. Ruby answered back basically saying she was going to hear him out and that they would come up with a plan, and that they would be happy to have him. When faced with Cordovin Ruby explained that they were only stealing the ship because Cordo was not giving them any other choice, and when that whole mess brought grimm to Argus Ruby and friends jumped right back into the fray to defend the city even when the army told them they would get no aid, and Ruby's words and bravery stirred Cordo enough for the short-stack specialist to give Ruby a chance and they parted on good terms. In Atlas they, again, did not force their way on anyone. If anything things went to hell in a handbasket because Ironwood refused to be swayed in the end.

Ableism
The commentary of "removing his humanity" makes sense to me with the context of the show. To stop Watts Ironwood basically flayed his own hand and arm to break free and grab the weasel. "I will do whatever it takes." And he does (or at least tries to). To put himself back in working order he has the flayed hand/arm replaced with a new and hurried prosthetic. To get Winter back in working order he got her into that brace. What is something we learned about Atlas and the Ace Ops? You are replaceable. If someone dies, a new person is swapped in. Just like how Marrow replaced Tortuga if Harriet short yet emotional vent is to be believed. Ironwood I think even at one point questioned if Salem lacking a heart is what made her strong. This is what I think the CRWBY meant by what they said. It's not so much "Prosthetics = less human" it's the context of the meaning of the replacements. Yang took time to rest and even debated putting the arm on after she got it. Maria retired from the field and quietly slipped away after she lost her eyes and even after eventually getting her prosthetics did not rejoin the fight until the present day. Ironwood, on the other hand, just swapped to a new metal hand and powered on like a machine. Metal as hell, but not good for one's mental health, which is bad when you are trying to lead an army and not let anyone question you.

Penny
Are we just ignoring what all of Team RWBY was telling Ambro when they were talking to him during the Penny part of the plan?
They didn't tell him to take her soul and plop it in a flesh body. The way they worded it basically left Penny as just the soul that had been in the metal shell and when Ambro was unsure of what would happen I think Ruby said "Well, I guess you'll have to get creative." And thus a blue fairy gave Pinocchio the "real" human body.

oh and as for "The writers created that entire situation. They didn't have to, but they did." Welcome to writing any story whatsoever. Because ALL writers make the situations in their stories. Did George Lucas had to have Obi-wan die? Did he have to make Jar-Jar Binks a thing? Nope, but he did. Did George R.R. Martin have to keep killing characters? Nope, but he did. Did The Legend of Korra have to exist? Nope, but it was made. Etc. etc.

Mansion - the amount of time does not matter because of the context i would say. It is one thing if the protagonists spent 24 hours at the mansion while nothing is going on. Its quite another to do so during an invasion. Its like firefighters taking a break during their shift, yes, its "only" 24h, but in the situation they are in, many people may die in those 24 hours. Nora can be looked after by a single person and them being wanted should not stop the protagonists from being heroes. This is the same thing as with stealing the airship in V6 in my opinion, if the protagonists prioritize their own comfort over helping people, they are not heroes. As far as Ruby herself goes, she had already made the choice. Both for herself and for Mantle/Atlas already. Her choice was to stand and fight.

Blake - Using Weiss is not a greatest example to use because Weiss has also been very much nerfed in her fighting prowess and in Volume 5 we have a near-fridging of her by making her an incompetent fighter just so Jaune could unlock his semblance. There is nothing wrong with Blake not wanting to risk a fight. But it is the writers who chose for Weiss to be a "white saviour" trope to Blake, and it is the writers who chose that Blake is now no longer an activist, and the groups clown, Nora is. One has to remember that RWBY is not real life, its a story, and the writers decide that these things happen. Im not questioning character logic here, i am questioning the writers choices in making Blake near non-existant.

Assertive - The protagonists have forced their way on others since even Volumes 2-3. A good example is how Ozpin allows them to go to Mountain Glenn because he knows that otherwise they would do it anyway. In V6 they choose to steal a military airship, forcing their journey upon others instead of looking for other choices. In V7-8 they force the choice of Atlas not being allowed to leave on others.

"They left us no choice" - is just wrong. The protagonists had a choice, especially with Cordovin. They just chose to force their way through instead of using any other plan. Like for example, sending Weiss ahead so that Weiss can contact Winter/Ironwood and get the rest of them into Atlas.

Ableism - Self sacrifice is not a loss of humanity, that is just a disgusting statement. The writers directly talked about prosthetics being symbolic for Ironwood losing his humanity. The prosthetic is also black, the colour usually associated with evil. The prosthetic is also skeletal looking, once again, associated with evil. And when Ironwood makes his crazy decisions in V8, his prosthetic is usually made to be clearly visible. LEt us be very clear here, how they treated Ironwood prosthetic is just disgusting. All of those details i mentioned are not coincidental, they were chosen by the writers and then commented on.

Penny - I am not ignoring anything, what Ambro was told is irrelevant to Penny at the end of her journey getting a human body, despite the fact that her entire message since V2 was that whats outside doesn't matter. Do you know how empowering that message felt, especially to me? It does not matter who you are outside, its inside what counts. So for that to be crushed and the story to end with her receiving a change to her outside is just... It just ruins the entire message. It ends up turning the message into "It doesnt matter who you are outside, its inside what counts, but its still better if your outside changes too".

Also, could we not start justifying that decision because "Pinnochio?", this also applies to another reply in that was made recently. Penny is not Pinnochio. The references to fairy tales in the show are usually skin deep and barely matter. Pinnochios story is completely different from Pennys. Pinnochio wanted to become real, that is the point of his entire adventure, that is why goes on an adventure. Penny since V2 did not want to become human. Because she already was.

Writers created the situation - The reason i said that is because you seem to be operating under the logic that the writing makes sense because the characters have reasons to act as they do. I do not disagree. But that is not the point i am making. I am exploring the writing itself, decisions that the writers made, choices that they made. Not the characters. I mentioned that the writers created the situation because it seems that we are arguing in two different dimensions, with you arguing about things making sense in-universe while i mostly explore out of universe considerations.

My point is that the writers make their choices for a reason, which does not always mean that it makes sense in-universe, or that its good writing.
 
If this is them being bad, I don't want them to be good.

Apparently, protesting an illegal coup and protecting yourself from illegitimate arrest on false charges means you're to blame for everything. But then, that post also includes gems like 'They should have handed Weiss over to her abuser who had stated his intentions to lock her away forever and hope he'd let her contact her political rivals' and 'Planning out what to do on screen and going proactive the moment you have a plan is sitting around in comfort while people die.'
 
'Planning out what to do on screen and going proactive the moment you have a plan is sitting around in comfort while people die.'
You know the Ukraine conflict really has taught me that the "DO SOMETHING!" mindset is incredibly misguided and that it generally leads to people being thrown into the meat grinder in the name of doing something. It's very rare for all forces to be actively engaging enemy forces, there's almost always someone on the back resting due to basic biological necessity.

If you ever find all your forces engaging the enemy at once, that probably means your forces have been degraded to the point only dregs are left and you're in the middle of a last stand
 
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I'd say the Fall of Atlas took about 2 days. Actually worked it out recently for a comment on a reaction video. It all started on Night 1 with the power being shut off during Jacques's party. The sun is rising when Clover dies and Salem arrives. It's setting again during Yang and Ren's argument and is up when the whale explodes. I'd say the finale takes place all on day two. I'd say Team Ruby was in the manor from the afternoonish of Day 1 until everyone leaves on Day 2.
 
Apparently, protesting an illegal coup and protecting yourself from illegitimate arrest on false charges means you're to blame for everything. But then, that post also includes gems like 'They should have handed Weiss over to her abuser who had stated his intentions to lock her away forever and hope he'd let her contact her political rivals' and 'Planning out what to do on screen and going proactive the moment you have a plan is sitting around in comfort while people die.'

Who said any of this? Can i just request people not to, yknow, strawman positions that were not taken? Its just rude in general to do so.

If this is them being bad, I don't want them to be good.

Sigh.... I never said that it makes them bad... Seriously, is this a curse of some sort? Is there literally no position that i can take or say without people just completely and utterly creating a false strawman?
 
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Sigh.... I never said that it makes them bad... Seriously, is this a curse of some sort? Is there literally no position that i can take or say without people just completely and utterly creating a false strawman?
I fail to see how you can argue RWBY "forced their way on others" and have it be a positive. It's pretty clearly meant to be a poor reflection on them.

Let me put it this way. Either it's a poor reflection on their moral character and I'll say it isn't, or it isn't a poor reflection on their moral character and I don't know why I should care.

That and keeping someone from doing something horrible is "forcing their way on people." That's a ludicrous concept. That's like arguing Ruby forced her way on Tyrian by taking away his choice to kidnap her.
 
That and keeping someone from doing something horrible is "forcing their way on people." That's a ludicrous concept. That's like arguing Ruby forced her way on Tyrian by taking away his choice to kidnap her.
I mean let's keep in mind 'critics' have complained about Ruby harming Tyrian and also claimed it was somehow villainous cos Yang lost her arm so Ruby should be more sensitive to cutting off an offending limb I guess?
 
I fail to see how you can argue RWBY "forced their way on others" and have it be a positive. It's pretty clearly meant to be a poor reflection on them.

Let me put it this way. Either it's a poor reflection on their moral character and I'll say it isn't, or it isn't a poor reflection on their moral character and I don't know why I should care.

That and keeping someone from doing something horrible is "forcing their way on people." That's a ludicrous concept. That's like arguing Ruby forced her way on Tyrian by taking away his choice to kidnap her.

Laws force their way onto others, society does that. Its not a negative. It just simply happens. Heroes force their way onto others constantly. Im not saying that you should care or that its a poor reflection of their characters, i was just responding to an argument that said that they dont force their way onto others, which is wrong. And the moments i mentioned with the protagonists are not them "keeping someone from doing something horrible".

I mean let's keep in mind 'critics' have complained about Ruby harming Tyrian and also claimed it was somehow villainous cos Yang lost her arm so Ruby should be more sensitive to cutting off an offending limb I guess?

Literally a single critic, a Youtuber did that. Even other critics disagreed with her on that. It really annoys me to no end when a single youtuber can say something and it instantly becomes a position that "all critics hold". We dont. If you have a problem with that argument, go to JudgmentalCritter. Not anyone else.
 
I mean let's keep in mind 'critics' have complained about Ruby harming Tyrian and also claimed it was somehow villainous cos Yang lost her arm so Ruby should be more sensitive to cutting off an offending limb I guess?

I remember that one. Right up there with 'Ruby didn't tell everything right away because she had concerns about him, so his launching a coup and abandoning a city to die horrible deaths is all her fault'
 
Laws force their way onto others, society does that. Its not a negative. It just simply happens. Heroes force their way onto others constantly. Im not saying that you should care or that its a poor reflection of their characters, i was just responding to an argument that said that they dont force their way onto others, which is wrong. And the moments i mentioned with the protagonists are not them "keeping someone from doing something horrible".
Then we come back to my hypothetical "Ruby forced her way on Tyrian by taking away his choice to kidnap her" concept. And it's just a mindset I can't support because it implies his choice carried any weight, just like Ironwood's choice didn't have weight.

Not all choices are made equal. (And I seriously doubt this is what the person you were talking to about meant by "force their way" onto people. Hard doubt there. We don't talk about basic social structures when we talk about this.)
 
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Then we come back to my hypothetical "Ruby forced her way on Tyrian by taking away his choice to kidnap her" concept. And it's just a mindset I can't support because it implies his choice carried any weight, just like Ironwood's choice didn't have weight.

Not all choices are made equal. (And I seriously doubt this is what the person you were talking to about meant by "force their way" onto people. Hard doubt there. We don't talk about basic social structures when we talk about this.)

I guess that is a key disagreement i would have here, since i do think that Ironwoods choice had weight. Leaving with Atlas at the very least.
 
If preventing the murder by neglect of (tens? hundreds of?) thousands of people is "forcing your way on someone" then the phrase is meaningless garbage intended to confuse and obfuscate.
 
If preventing the murder by neglect of (tens? hundreds of?) thousands of people is "forcing your way on someone" then the phrase is meaningless garbage intended to confuse and obfuscate.

Can we not do any obfuscations here? The only reason that decision is taken is because Salem is coming to destroy everyone. Ironwood makes a choice to save Atlas and sadly sacrifice Mantle. The protagonists make the choice for everyone to stay, and if not for the relic at the end of V8 that would have lead to everyone dying. The phrase is not meaningless if one does not ignore the context of the decisions made.
 
Can we not do any obfuscations here? The only reason that decision is taken is because Salem is coming to destroy everyone. Ironwood makes a choice to save Atlas and sadly sacrifice Mantle. The protagonists make the choice for everyone to stay, and if not for the relic at the end of V8 that would have lead to everyone dying. The phrase is not meaningless if one does not ignore the context of the decisions made.
Ironwood had no idea Salem was on her way until after he made his decision, he decided to do it to keep Cinder from being in Atlas after she had already proven she was able to get to his office, abandoning people he had just promised to get to safety from Mantle. His refusal to follow through on the evacuations is what turned RWBY against him, and instead of listening he decided that they and all of their friends were criminals for following through on their duties.

There was never any true need for sacrifice, Ironwood forced the issue for the sake of his own paranoia instead of any real necessity.
 
Can we not do any obfuscations here? The only reason that decision is taken is because Salem is coming to destroy everyone. Ironwood makes a choice to save Atlas and sadly sacrifice Mantle. The protagonists make the choice for everyone to stay, and if not for the relic at the end of V8 that would have lead to everyone dying. The phrase is not meaningless if one does not ignore the context of the decisions made.
Ironwood made the choice to sacrifice the entire world outside of Atlas, actually, and there's no reason to believe his plan would have worked (especially after Salem's whale landed and guaranteed her presence). The protagonists decided that everyone dying and Salem getting all the other relics (which she could probably use to bring Atlas down, assuming she had any need to do so at all, which I doubt) was undesirable.
 
Ironwood had no idea Salem was on her way until after he made his decision, he decided to do it to keep Cinder from being in Atlas after she had already proven she was able to get to his office, abandoning people he had just promised to get to safety from Mantle. His refusal to follow through on the evacuations is what turned RWBY against him, and instead of listening he decided that they and all of their friends were criminals for following through on their duties.

There was never any true need for sacrifice, Ironwood forced the issue for the sake of his own paranoia instead of any real necessity.

That is factually incorrect. His decision isnt made when talking about Cinder, This is the link to the episode to anyone who needs a refresher. While he does talk about evacuating Mantle maybe being a mistake, or something that was planned by Salem, there are no talks about him abandoning Mantle, just wondering whether or not Atlas is already infiltrated. This then segueways into him asking about the protagonists telling Robyn about Amity and then results in Salem making an appearance.

After the conversation they mention how Salem is on her way, how long-range sensors were disabled. At minute 16.05 he talks about timeline changing and about how the Amity plan is now going to be used for Atlas.

I sincerely hate how many people misremember this scene.

It is a FACT that Ironwood only chooses to abandon Mantle after Salem makes her appearance in Volume 7, and everyone knows that she is coming.

Ironwood made the choice to sacrifice the entire world outside of Atlas, actually, and there's no reason to believe his plan would have worked (especially after Salem's whale landed and guaranteed her presence). The protagonists decided that everyone dying and Salem getting all the other relics (which she could probably use to bring Atlas down, assuming she had any need to do so at all, which I doubt) was undesirable.

There is no reason to believe that his plan would not have worked considering that his plan was made long before Salem landed on Atlas. He also did not make a choice to sacrifice the entire world, he does not talk about abandoning the world, only that he will always be out of reach of Salem, together with the relics.

The protagonists decided that everyone staying and dying and Salem getting the relics was desireable since their entire plan was to stay and fight until the last episodes that they even thought about the relic of creation.
 
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I'm glad its not just me who remembers Ironwood sent Winter to rip out Fria's soul before Salem was even a factor, not that it would make his plan any less terrible overall but still, that feels important.
 
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I'm glad its not just me who remembers Ironwood sent Winter to rip out Fria's soul before Salem was even a factor, not that it would make his plan any less overall but still, that feels important.

To hide the relics. Not to leave Mantle with Atlas. I posted the link to the episode above. The decision to transfer maidens powers was due to Cinder, nothing else.
 
People complaining about the heroes final plan also seem to forget they had at most 45 minutes to try and put it all together. And that's probably being generous time wise. Even multitasking they were on a tight schedule to try and put it all together. Forgetting railings and wording about "one way" is a but more understandable.
 
There is no reason to believe that his plan would not have worked considering that his plan was made long before Salem landed on Atlas. He also did not make a choice to sacrifice the entire world, he does not talk about abandoning the world, only that he will always be out of reach of Salem, together with the relics.

The protagonists decided that everyone staying and dying and Salem getting the relics was desireable since their entire plan was to stay and fight until the last episodes that they even thought about the relic of creation.
There is no reason to believe his plan to take Atlas far enough into the sky to be inaccessible to any new species of flying Grimm that Salem would create (along with being away from, y'know, the dust its society and weaponry needs to survive, but of course not so high up that the dust stops working) would save them, though. We don't know whether they had a means to deal with the high atmosphere for the average person, either.

He was planning to abandon the world and also his responsibilities to run away and maybe save a few people, for a while. There is literally no reason to believe it'd have lasted long term, especially with the example of Atlas having once been inhospitable to Grimm and then the number of Grimm there in the modern day.

His plan is only even vaguely reasonable if he doesn't know there is an intelligent, immortal witch with dangerous magic powers and the ability to design Grimm as she needs. With that knowledge, it's a dumb, stupid, idiot plan. Guess what knowledge Ironwood had?
 
People complaining about the heroes final plan also seem to forget they had at most 45 minutes to try and put it all together. And that's probably being generous time wise. Even multitasking they were on a tight schedule to try and put it all together. Forgetting railings and wording about "one way" is a but more understandable.

They only had 45 minutes becuase they decided to throw the save Atlas plan into the defeat Ironwood plan instead of just defeating Ironwood and then using their new found extended free time to come up with a save Atlas plan.

There is no reason to believe his plan to take Atlas far enough into the sky to be inaccessible to any new species of flying Grimm that Salem would create

Of course this would mean the heroes were idiots for wasting time with Amity if it was never going to work since thats thew entire basis of Ironwood's plan.

So yeah you can't play that one without Ruby's plan also now being doomed to failure.
 
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