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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Honestly I think some people's complaints about Aura is a bit... Hmm, well like I said missing the genre to an extent, or more applying concepts of world building from one premise to another where it doesn't work.

    For instance a fantasy setting where we see common magic allows for the creation or water or say, the speedy growing of plants or shaping of stone really does beg the question of how this impacts fields if industry and often makes the pseudo medieval look nonsensical.

    RWBY doesn't have this problem though as the 'magic' is Aura, with its base level being a subtle force field, slightly sped up healing and strength; all nominally useful things but not liable to be that impactful in places like Vale, nor easy to learn for your common farmer. Semblances are unique but people can go their whole lives without developing one and the one they get may be useless or actively harmful that there's no practicability to it.

    Would avoiding or healing from paper cuts and having an easier time lifting heavy stuff be nice?

    Sure it would rock.

    I'm not going to submit myself for six months (Minimum) of intense training and schooling that may well be extremely expensive for it though.
    Sandstar said:
    I only got into through Unicorn of War's rewrite, and a tumblr blog roasting it.
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    Yeah trust me, what the Hatedom's got going on with Arryn is much worse:

    View: https://sir-adamus.tumblr.com/post/680077511938490368/
     
    Zam said:
    It ultimately has some uses, especially on low level things, IE the low level healing, but its a lot of work and time to cultivate and I can see why the average person who's never left "Insert city here" doesn't bother, or why farmers who have to work exhaustive amounts for long stretches don't have the time.
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    Like learning martial arts in basically any fighting series. Most people would get little to nothing out of it most of the time, but the story follows the ones who go hard into it.
    Zam said:
    RWBY doesn't have this problem though as the 'magic' is Aura, with its base level being a subtle force field, slightly sped up healing and strength; all nominally useful things but not liable to be that impactful in places like Vale, nor easy to learn for your common farmer. Semblances are unique but people can go their whole lives without developing one and the one they get may be useless or actively harmful that there's no practicability to it.
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    There's also Dust, but that is the main source for pretty much all the advanced technology so it's a little easier to point to to shut up idiots.
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Yup. Her exes stans have been harassing her for years, and scum like CJ are all too eager to get in on that action.
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    Who even is he that he'd have so many nut jobs defending him, or is it spite against her for being in a successful show that they don't like for not fellating their insecurities?
     
    To go back to Aura, I think it's probably helpful to think about what Aura fundamentally *is* To do that let's back up a bit towards it's most obvious inspiration, Qi.

    Qi is generally a catch all term for the 'life force energy' although literally translated as 'breath' or air usually. Anyways. Qi is pretty common in martial arts story as cultivating it is what let's you do those cool wire fu tricks, and other stuff of that nature. It allows you to heal, move, use internal kung fu techniques like that long forgotten time where Ren just explode a Grimm. Most importantly for us, maintaining and focusing your qi is what lets you shrug off blows that can shatter steel or other attacks. So long as you have your qi and are using it, you can endure a hell of a beating.

    Which is a pretty direct 1 to 1 for how aura works. You have to be paying attention for your qi to work, you have to be paying attention and keep your aura up.

    Now granted we don't see any sign that you can 'cultivate' aura the way you can cultivate qi. But it's not something that isn't proven to happen. One of the more important things for Qi is that it's actually fairly difficult to cultivate to an appreciable level. The same way it seems that most people don't have Aura. Unless you have a master guiding you, you generally are gonna take a while to figure this shit out.

    Now qi is life, it's essence, what RWBY adds on to this is the Semblance, the 'special power' that is manifestation of the soul. But that's not the only way to think about it. You can also see Semblance as special techniques that people figure out how to do because it works best with their needs when it comes to combat. Yang needs to take hits and give hits, so her semblance is a combo meter. Ruby needs to maintain distance so she gets the functional teleport, and so on.

    In that context Semblances can be seen less as 'super powers' and more 'expressions of their innate skills' or kung fu techniques if we want to go full wuxia on it. The thing about innate skill or talent, is that you don't actually get to pick what they are. Especially in the Wuxia/Xianxia stories that I think Monty was at least somewhat drawing on when they came up with Aura. With enough hard work, you can usually be as good as someone with natural talent, but you don't get to choose what your natural talents are. So to, semblances aren't liable to be something you can choose. Whatever it is that ends up expressing itself, is probably going to be based around your style of 'kung fu' so to speak. Now technically anything can be a kung fu. However in RWBY Kung-fu is understood as a martial thing. So semblances as a rule are going to develop to work with your martial style.

    That's why the non combat semblance only sort of works. You don't develop a semblance out of any sort of mundane situation. Only through cultivating your aura, and the people who are most likely to help you with that are the monster hunters. So you're going to learn to fight and whatever your innate style or skill is, it's probably going to come from that.

    At least that's my two cents on the matter.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    That said, they maybe shouldn't wish for CJ's death?

    www.tumblr.com

    enbyqrow on Tumblr

    RWBY critics have passed the point of "oh we're just upset this show isn't as good as it should be" to "we're denying the abuse...
    www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com

    I get they hate him, but saying "I want him dead" or "he deserves the worst" is doing no one any favors.
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    While death threats are a step much too far, CJ, and all the other assholes exactly like him, can fuck off and stay fucked off.
     
    gman391 said:
    You don't develop a semblance out of any sort of mundane situation. Only through cultivating your aura, and the people who are most likely to help you with that are the monster hunters.
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    For what it's worth, there is some canon on the subject:

    Lightning the Fire transcript said:
    Ren: A common philosophy is that a warrior's Semblance is a part of who they are. Some say your personality and character can define your Semblance while some claim that it is the other way around. Of course, there are still many who don't see a connection at all.

    Nora: It's hard to know when you know sometimes. Ren's Semblance was unlocked from intense stress.

    Ruby: And mine kicked in during training one day.

    Oscar: (to Nora) And what about you?

    Nora: Oh. Struck by lightning. Didn't die. Craaaazy Thursday.

    Jaune: I just don't understand what's wrong with me. I train. I meditate.

    Oscar's eyes glow momentarily as Ozpin takes control of his body again.

    Ozpin: Don't worry, Mr. Arc. Your journey is far from over. And the same might be said for all of you. Unlocking your Semblance isn't the end. It can still grow and evolve. Providing you're willing to put in the work, who knows what could happen.
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    Here semblances are talked about only in relation to their usage by warriors, and it's alluded that training may be needed in order to unlock a semblance, though in Nora's case, it's uncertain whether it was mere happenstance, or that she would have died had she not have been a warrior, there's not enough detail to know.

    Link to the transcript: Lighting the Fire/Transcript

    Meanwhile, while I haven't read the books written by Myers, I have read that they are considered canon, as I think all non-fan RWBY material is, sans Ice Queendom. In one of Myers' books, Before The Dawn, a person unlocks their semblance while in their mother's womb. This means that semblances do not need any sort of training in order to be unlocked, it can just happen, you don't even need to have been born for it.

    I can't provide a quotation, but it has been mentioned and asked about in an Ask Me Anything on reddit, though Myers, Tobacco, and Rivas chose to ignore the question:

    GladiusNocturno said:
    - Before the Dawn establishes that people like Gillian can unlock their semblances in the womb. I wanted to ask, lore-wise, does this have to do with stress affecting the unborn child or is it simply a case of extreme quantities of aura forcing the unlock of a semblance?
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    Link to the AMA: r/RWBY - We are E.C. Myers, Violet Tobacco, and Eddy Rivas, here to answer questions about the RWBY books from Scholastic. Ask us anything!
     
    Yeah the CFVY books basically say Semblances aren't too hard to unlock going off how one of the villains plans is to basically run a human trafficking ring of civilians with high-power Semblances.
     
    The books might be canon, but I haven't read the books. Honestly the whole semblance in the womb thing just doesn't scan as something that fits RWBY at least for me. For a series about moving forward and bettering yourself, having something decided for you in utero just doesn't fit.
     
    That said, if the show up and says "yeah, the books happened", which I wouldn't put past RT playing fast and loose with canonicity, then we're probably gonna have to accept that Semblances develop in utero.
     
    I think Semblances are kind of like Silver eyes, something there given by the brother of light or something to give Humanity a chance against Grimm, or maybe it's the other one giving something that would stir shit up, which would explain some of semblances we see in the novels. It's entirely possible that in-universe semblances were made purely for combat purposes

    gman391 said:
    The books might be canon, but I haven't read the books. Honestly the whole semblance in the womb thing just doesn't scan as something that fits RWBY at least for me. For a series about moving forward and bettering yourself, having something decided for you in utero just doesn't fit.
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    I'd kind of be surprised if the novels weren't at least broadstokes canon, cause like I'm pretty sure most of Vol9 will be RWBY and Jaune on the weird island, but most of everyone else is near where the Light Novels were set and I feel like what happened would at least play a role to some extent. It's not like the comics where it's possible the team met the Justice League and just never mentioned it again afterwards.
     
    I just figured Semblances were leftover traces of magic.

    Like, you know, "a semblance of magic." A Semblance is the outward appearance or apparent form of something, especially when the reality is different.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    I think Semblances are kind of like Silver eyes, something there given by the brother of light or something to give Humanity a chance against Grimm, or maybe it's the other one giving something that would stir shit up, which would explain some of semblances we see in the novels. It's entirely possible that in-universe semblances were made purely for combat purposes


    I'd kind of be surprised if the novels weren't at least broadstokes canon, cause like I'm pretty sure most of Vol9 will be RWBY and Jaune on the weird island, but most of everyone else is near where the Light Novels were set and I feel like what happened would at least play a role to some extent. It's not like the comics where it's possible the team met the Justice League and just never mentioned it again afterwards.
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    Broadstrokes? Maybe, but canon is a spook. For me at least, Semblances are more enjoyable if they're something you develop after your aura is unlocked. So while if CRWBY goes that route, I'll respect it, it's not something I'll incorporate was part of the RWBY I enjoy in my head.
     
    Rule 2: Don’t Be Hateful - No matter what another person does, death threats are not a thing that can be declared as "something they brought on themselves"
    Psyga315 said:
    That said, they maybe shouldn't wish for CJ's death?

    www.tumblr.com

    enbyqrow on Tumblr

    RWBY critics have passed the point of "oh we're just upset this show isn't as good as it should be" to "we're denying the abuse...
    www.tumblr.com www.tumblr.com

    I get they hate him, but saying "I want him dead" or "he deserves the worst" is doing no one any favors.
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    I'm not sure I can be bothered to care. It seems disingenuous to come into an on-going conversation, where one side is heaping abuse on the other, and saying to the other side "oh hey, you shouldn't wish for his death...." In general, are death threats bad? Sure. But maybe we should look at the circumstances and figure out if the side getting the threats hasn't done something that might've brought it on themselves.
     
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    Sandstar said:
    I'm not sure I can be bothered to care. It seems disingenuous to come into an on-going conversation, where one side is heaping abuse on the other, and saying to the other side "oh hey, you shouldn't wish for his death...." In general, are death threats bad? Sure. But maybe we should look at the circumstances and figure out if the side getting the threats hasn't done something that might've brought it on themselves.
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    And this is someone with a long trend of abusive behaviour towards CRWBY. being utterly sick of his shit, I can understand, even if I don't agree with wishing death on the gaslighting, transphobic little prick.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    And this is someone with a long trend of abusive behaviour towards CRWBY. being utterly sick of his shit, I can understand, even if I don't agree with wishing death on the gaslighting, transphobic little prick.
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    Yah, I don't agree with it either, but he's certainly not blameless, and I'm not gonna tut tut people for getting sick of his shit.
     
    When it comes to the "Semblance activating in the womb" issue from the books, I've never seen is as a problem.
    If I recall in universe Aura and Semblances are not fully understood but there is at least enough research and examples that there is a broad understanding. You get it either through active training or as a response to the body registering danger.

    Ruby - get hers during training with Yang - idea could be "Oh no, I am about to get punched in the face, need to dodge" and suddenly Ruby is 10 feet away and there is a trail of petals
    Ren - got his while hiding during the grimm attack - idea could be "I am surrounded and stressed and these monsters sense negative emotions so I need to calm down" and boom, zen.
    Nora - got hers after being struck by lightning - idea could be "danger zap, need to do something with that power/energy so I don't die"

    and then we have the fact that in real life there are still things we do not know about pregnancy and there is the phenomena where a woman will be pregnant with twins, and then at some point one of said twins "vanishes"
    so in the case of the book it could be that, for some reason, Twin A's body registered that it needed energy to fuel itself and thus reached out to the 2 closest sources, Twin B and Mother.
     
    Zam said:
    For instance a fantasy setting where we see common magic allows for the creation or water or say, the speedy growing of plants or shaping of stone really does beg the question of how this impacts fields if industry and often makes the pseudo medieval look nonsensical.
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    Sorry for being late to the party on this one, but I would like to point that sometimes when writers create magical systems like this they don't think anything further then cool magic system for there characters to progress the plot and don't really think of the full consequences of there systems becasue the story is not about that unless they need it for a plot point.
     
    Tython82 said:
    Sorry for being late to the party on this one, but I would like to point that sometimes when writers create magical systems like this they don't think anything further then cool magic system for there characters to progress the plot and don't really think of the full consequences of there systems becasue the story is not about that unless they need it for a plot point.
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    Oh I definitely agree/know, I was mostly just noting that I think that kind of setting and the implied questions it raises is what was on people's minds who ask "Why isn't Aura used in every field of industry" when its not really a comparable situation.
     
    gman391 said:
    Broadstrokes? Maybe, but canon is a spook. For me at least, Semblances are more enjoyable if they're something you develop after your aura is unlocked. So while if CRWBY goes that route, I'll respect it, it's not something I'll incorporate was part of the RWBY I enjoy in my head.
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    Ren was pretty clearly shown to develop his Semblance at the same time he awakened his Aura all the way back in volume 4 though. It's clearly never been a rule that the Semblance needs to come after. Similarly Ren also used his instinctively, and heck even a loser like Jaune was able to grasp the most basic aspects of Aura use minutes/hours after unlocking it, so while training has always been neccesary to truly master Aura there are aspects of Aura that can be used without training.


    gman391 said:
    The books might be canon, but I haven't read the books. Honestly the whole semblance in the womb thing just doesn't scan as something that fits RWBY at least for me. For a series about moving forward and bettering yourself, having something decided for you in utero just doesn't fit.
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    Similarly the Schnee Hereditary Semblance always shows that there are exceptions to the rule of Semblances being unique things you develop later in life to suit yourself and yourself alone. The thing is, it's an exception.


    Anyway even if you're born with a specific Semblance that doesn't mean it defines you for the rest of your life. Remember that Semblances can evolve and change throughout your life, sometimes to seemingly drastic extents. Qrow was "cursed" since childhood to be a bad luck charm, a black cat, an albatross, except that was seemingly in large part because of his mindset. Once he changed his mindset and looked at his Semblance from a different point of view he was able to cause good luck instead.

    Ren's Semblance is basically to not think about his feelings. But once he changed as a person it changed and grew and gave him the ability to also see and understand emotions instead of just blocking them out.


    The character you're referring to, Gillian is someone you'd expect to be an evil leech, a figurative vampire that lives by taking from those close to her to put herself on a pedestal. Except out of the Vacuo book villains she's actually the closest to being a traditional huntress and true protector, while it's her brother that guilts and pushes her towards villainy for his own benefit.


    The books also reveal that Yatsuhashi unlocked his Semblance at a very young age much like Ren, though not in traumatic circumstances. And his Semblance is scary as fuck, and the way he used it initially could have easily put him on the path towards villainy if he never got a reality check. Kid Yatsuhashi was kind of a dick to be honest. Yet once he realized how dangerous his Semblance could be if he wasn't careful with it he became one of the kindest and most cautious people around, and then as a young adult he further develops both as a person and Semblance user as he realizes the potential of his Semblance to do good as well.


    Honestly I think Semblances being possible to unlock at extremely young ages actually fits RWBY's themes. Some things about you really is decided at birth, and needs to be worked around. If you're born mute then you're simply never going to be able to have a career as a singer when you grow up (unless you live in a society with really advanced cybernetics, surgery or gene editing technology), but that doesn't mean your condition has to define your entire excistence and prevent you from achieving personal growth (hello Neo). And so it goes for Semblances too.

    Jax from the novels for example might seem as if he was destined for villainy with his Semblance, but a huge point of the story and the reason he's constrasted so much with Yatsuhashi is because ultimately it was his own sense of entitlement and ambition that put him where he was in life, he could have used his Semblance for good and evolved it to develop more benign powers like how Yatsuhashi evolved his memory erasing Semblance into healing people suffering from memory recall issues.


    ArtFartCop said:
    Yeah the CFVY books basically say Semblances aren't too hard to unlock going off how one of the villains plans is to basically run a human trafficking ring of civilians with high-power Semblances.
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    Keep in mind that just going through a stressful situation is enough to develop a Semblance (ie Ren in Kuroyuri) and this trafficking ring is happening is happening in Vacuo, land of "everything is fucked, Grimm are everywhere, everything wants to kill you, no we won't help you unless you can pull your own weight, holy shit you've actually survived on your own you can stay then".


    People there probably have a lot more chances to develop Semblances than people living in Vale or Atlas.


    Also keep in mind that one of the "high power Semblance" victims was a civilian girl with the power to... Make playing cards stick together. Like, technically she could make anything stick together, but her Semblance was so weak that playing cards was about the best she could manage.

    Keep in mind the whole purpose of the operation was to create minions/batteries for Jax' army of mind controlled Aura druggies.


    If I remember correctly it was noted that several members of his army had much stronger Semblances after Jillian boosted them than they did before. So the idea was to find people with potentially useful Semblances, mind control them and then buff them to see if their Semblance could be useful when operated at max capacity.

    Those whose Semblances turned out to not be worth the effort then ended up getting their Aura drained instead and were kept sedated and on life support so that a whole buttload of them could be continiously drained of Aura to let Gillian build up a huge reservoir of Aura that could then be given out to the minions with actually useful powers.
     
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