Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • Epsilon Rose said:
    Yeah. That's bugged me for a while. You'd expect at least Weiss to put "Belladonna" + dark hair together and get "Leaders of Menagerie", especially after "Cat Faunus" gets added to the equation.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Again, why should Weiss know the Belladonna name?
    It was Sienna's White Fang that was actively causing trouble and attacking things related to the SDC.
    So if Weiss knew ANY name from the White Fang, it would be Sienna Khan.
     
    GuestLurker said:
    Well there are people like that, and they're usually the ones most likely to make the rewrites, so...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Sort of, but I think those people are more "Reclaim the glory of the Poser days" over "Reclaim the fanon of the trailer days" type.

    GuestLurker said:
    Biggest cases of that recently have been that guy that the heroes rode up to Atlas while in custody with who Tyrian killed the next episode, others were still used to fill up space after showing up or people that RT thought they might use later but didn't, like Ceil.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Mhm, exactly, it was never easy.

    Epsilon Rose said:
    Go back and re-read what I actually wrote and stop putting words in my mouth. Until you can show me the basic curtesy of responding to my actual points and not the straw man you want to make up, I see no reason to respond to anything else you've written.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I've responded to exactly what you said, you claimed RT made him shallow and angrier, pretended he was only ever Blake's mentor until they changed it and framed his entire role in the story as bad or otherwise misused because you wanted something that was never promised, nor made sense, nor would serve Blake or the narrative well by utilizing Adam for it.
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Case in point, not once have I said he was handled unrealistically or that him being unrealistic is a reason to change his depiction.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    And my initial post on that front wasn't directed at you specifically, but then you responded claiming realism didn't matter.
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Yeah. That's bugged me for a while. You'd expect at least Weiss to put "Belladonna" + dark hair together and get "Leaders of Menagerie", especially after "Cat Faunus" gets added to the equation.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Exactly how would Weiss of all people know anything about Kuo Kuana politics, she doesn't even know what year the White Fang turned to violence in V1. Nothing about what we see indicated Kuo Kuanna gets any real attention, in fact its specifically highlighted Faunus go there to avoid engaging with humans and the world outside at all.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    He's the leader of one of the 5 countries on her planet. Siena might have been the current leader of the White Fang, and the one causing trouble, but that doesn't mean Ghira isn't a major political figure.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Kuo Kuana is literally called Menagerie by humans, it lacks an Academy, an open military and a CCT, they don't even have support towers as far as I am aware. Kuo Kuana is in no way considered a country, anymore than "Random Podunk village over there" is.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    He's the leader of one of the 5 countries on her planet. Siena might have been the current leader of the White Fang, and the one causing trouble, but that doesn't mean Ghira isn't a major political figure.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Menagerie has no Huntsmen Academy, no major CCT tower, and is a refuge of the minority race and tends to keep to itself.
    It is not a major player in the world. -.-
    It is barely mentioned/talked about at all during the Beacon Arc.
     
    Like, just for clarity, I don't even know the names of most of my countries local state leaders or federal reps, just a smattering who happen to annoy me by saying or doing stupid shit often enough it trends on twitter and I live here.

    Epsilon Rose said:
    Where did we find out they don't have a CCT?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Because we know there's only four and also the absence of a gigantic tower.
     
    Zam said:
    Kuo Kuana is literally called Menagerie by humans, it lacks an Academy, an open military and a CCT, they don't even have support towers as far as I am aware. Kuo Kuana is in no way considered a country, anymore than "Random Podunk village over there" is.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I mean Kuo Kuana the name of the biggest town and Menagerie is the name of the Landmass. I mean Vacou is a nation as the Holy Roman Empire was a nation.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Where did we find out they don't have a CCT?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    *ahem*

    View: https://youtu.be/FrfYRmCW6a0?t=92

    Four main towers, and the placement makes it clear that the towers are at each of the FOUR Kingdom's capitals and the show itself has shown that said towers are on Academy Grounds. Beacon's was the iconic tower of the building, while Haven's was in the main courtyard outside the central building of the campus.
    Meanwhile we have seen Kuo Kuana. We did not see an Academy nor a tower dominating the skyline.

    heck, we don't even see the ISLAND of Kuo Kuana when talking about the CCT.
     
    Last edited:
    Zam said:
    Is that the canonical understanding of the terms used or is it a fan interpretation? Not being contentious here, legit curious if there's been official word on that front.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I mean it used in WOR episode about the Faunas to the landmass given to the Faunas is called Menagerie. In the volume 4 chapter 5 the Episode where Blake returns home with Sun is called by RT Menagerie. So I guess those are decent indicators that the landmass Kuo Kuana is on is called Menagerie.
     
    MonochromeXClown said:
    I mean it used in WOR episode about the Faunas to the landmass given to the Faunas is called Menagerie. In the volume 4 chapter 5 the Episode where Blake returns home with Sun is called by RT Menagerie. So I guess those are decent indicators that the landmass Kuo Kuana is on is called Menagerie.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    True, but that narration is also done in character and if I recall it was a human doing it. Sun also doesn't know the history of the WFF, or the Faunus Rights Revolution, I am unsure he's a reliable source XD I think its more open to interpretation myself.
     
    Zam said:
    True, but that narration is also done in character and if I recall it was a human doing it. Sun also doesn't know the history of the WFF, or the Faunus Rights Revolution, I am unsure he's a reliable source XD I think its more open to interpretation myself.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I think I worded it confusingly in Volume 4 Chapter 5 the title of said episode is called Menagerie by Rooster Teeth. Which is the same episode Blake return home to with Sun. Why would RT call the episode of Blake returning home Menagerie if the name of the Kingdom is Kuo Kuana. Since they are outside of universe and have nothing to gain of call it Menagerie if thats not its true name.
     
    Menagerie is the landmass, Kuo Kuana is the biggest town.
    I am pretty sure that is more or less what Blake says after they get off the boat.
     
    Hmm, fair point, though I'd argue Faunus keeping the name Menagerie could be argued as one of the actual faults of the Faunus/White Fang storytelling in that case.
     
    or it could be an example of an oppressed people taking something that was meant to degrade them and turning into something of their own.
     
    Jcogginsa said:
    The White Fang plotline not being well handled is something I agree with. It needing a rewrite isn't wrong

    I don't think giving Adam more sympathetic elements is the correct way to do that. The correct way to do that is to introduce characters like Sienna earlier and give them more screentime, so that Adam's toxicity is more appropriately highlighted and his personal flaws don't get conflated with the movement
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Bingo.

    I've mentioned Marco Inaros from the Expanse because he pretty much is the same character as Adam. In the Past Marco was the lover of Naomi Nagata (one of the main characters, and the love interest of hero James Holden.) Marco puts on a show of wanting to fight oppression and it's made clear that Belters HAVE been viciously abused. However, it's also made clear that Marco's "good intentions" never really existed and that he was always just a power hungry egomaniac (case in point he abandons the largest belter colony after looting it dry both to hinder the other factions AND in the books because the governor humiliated him by arresting his son). He's ALSO an abusive control freak relying on emotional abuse to keep Naomi in line; Naomi only left him when he tricked her into helping him commit mass murder, which is when she finally saw him for what he truly was. Marco than poisons their son against her and goes to ridiculous lengths to kill James Holden purely out of jealousy.

    In the expanse we meet other rebel leaders (Fred Johnson, Camina Drummer, Anderson Dawes) who while ruthless are shown to genuinely want what's best. As such it's more clear that Marco's just a psychopathic monster.

    Sienna DEFINITELY should have been featured more, but with better execution she would have been the people everyone THOUGHT Adam was.

    I've mentioned that one story that came out before Sienna was introduced had in my mind a relatively decent take despite it's other flaws.

    Basically the original leader of the White Fang is a guy called Claudandus, who favors a more diplomatic approach (spoiler alert, he's also Blake's grandfather in this retelling.) Adam uses what happened him (which is stated to be VERY VERY fucked up) to gather the clout to force Claudandus out. It's made clear that while Adam's past was genuinely horrific he's become FAR worse than the people who hurt him (not to mention that he's rather hypocritically inflicting the exact same crimes that were done on his family on any Faunus who dares disagree with him). Blake bitterly realizes that while Claudandus was overly passive he was right that Adam was batshit insane, and after Adam's LEGION of atrocities are exposed (carving off the animal parts of any Faunus who disagree with him despite that causing intense psychological trauma, setting up dissidents to be devoured at an outpost in the desert by one of Salem's monsters purely so he can create a false flag operation to blame on the humans) Adam's power is broken, Blake kicks him off an airship to his death, and his former second in command (who had a heel turn on learning the full depths of Adam's insanity) takes over and uses a more balanced approach (he's willing to try diplomacy but he's also willing to use violence against those who hurt Faunus.)

    Again this was before Sienna was introduced and despite that rewrite's other flaws it DID make very clear that Adam was a monster despite his tragic past.
     
    Zam said:
    Hmm, fair point, though I'd argue Faunus keeping the name Menagerie could be argued as one of the actual faults of the Faunus/White Fang storytelling in that case.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Not necessarily. A number of peoples and places end up retaining unflattering exonyms that end up in common use even by members of that people or place. The Germanic peoples who migrated throughout Europe during and after the collapse of the Roman Empire named many of the very people whose lands they were invading "foreigners" in their language, which has been preserved in names like Wallonia and Wales, to name a very few, and I name those two specifically because even the people who live there and identify as Walloon and Welsh respectively tend to use those names or a variant of them.
     
    Leingod said:
    Not necessarily. A number of peoples and places end up retaining unflattering exonyms that end up in common use even by members of that people or place. The Germanic peoples who migrated throughout Europe during and after the collapse of the Roman Empire named many of the very people whose lands they were invading "foreigners" in their language, which has been preserved in names like Wallonia and Wales, to name a very few, and I name those two specifically because even the people who live there and identify as Walloon and Welsh respectively tend to use those names or a variant of them.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Sure but that happened over centuries, Menagerie got named in the last 80 years and also had people trying to genocide the Faunus by proxy via ethnic cleansing by sending them all there against their wills. Plus the word for a place to contain and display animals VS foreigner is pretty big I feel.
     
    Zam said:
    Sure but that happened over centuries, Menagerie got named in the last 80 years and also had people trying to genocide the Faunus by proxy via ethnic cleansing by sending them all there against their wills. Plus the word for a place to contain and display animals VS foreigner is pretty big I feel.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Doesn't Kuo Kuana translate as "garbage dump" or something like that in Hawaiian? If they kept that city name, it's probable that they also kept the name Menagerie in an ironic way and as a mark of pride.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top