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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • so, currently going into V9 our groups are; Team Island (RWBY+Jaune and Neo), Team Refugees (Ren, Nora, Oscar, Emerald, The Schnees and Klein, Happy Huntresses, and the civilian refugees of Atlas and Mantle), Team Left Behind (Qrow, Robyn and the Aces), Team Road Trip (Mercury and Tyrian) and Team Bad Bitches (Salem and Cinder).
    How many episodes do you think it will take for the story to give us tabs on each group? And in Team Island's case, how long before all 6 meet up?
     
    Pugman said:
    so, currently going into V9 our groups are; Team Island (RWBY+Jaune and Neo), Team Refugees (Ren, Nora, Oscar, Emerald, The Schnees and Klein, Happy Huntresses, and the civilian refugees of Atlas and Mantle), Team Left Behind (Qrow, Robyn and the Aces), Team Road Trip (Mercury and Tyrian) and Team Bad Bitches (Salem and Cinder).
    How many episodes do you think it will take for the story to give us tabs on each group? And in Team Island's case, how long before all 6 meet up?
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    Maybe they do one season focusing in with the outside group and the next season focus exclusively on the Island. With the season finale for both being where they both meet again?
     
    Pugman said:
    so, currently going into V9 our groups are; Team Island (RWBY+Jaune and Neo), Team Refugees (Ren, Nora, Oscar, Emerald, The Schnees and Klein, Happy Huntresses, and the civilian refugees of Atlas and Mantle), Team Left Behind (Qrow, Robyn and the Aces), Team Road Trip (Mercury and Tyrian) and Team Bad Bitches (Salem and Cinder).
    How many episodes do you think it will take for the story to give us tabs on each group? And in Team Island's case, how long before all 6 meet up?
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    Knowing how RWBY does things...
    • The evil teams will have little to no screen time to invoke suspense when they finally pop up in the middle of Vacuo unless it's to build up the next Volume.
    • Qrow's team will have small scenes here and there interspersed throughout the episodes.
    • The Vacuo Team will have the lion's share of scenes.
    • The Beach Team will have some focus at the beginning but they will end up at a spot where they don't get a huge focus for the next couple of episodes so that the other teams get a spotlight.
     
    Pugman said:
    so, currently going into V9 our groups are; Team Island (RWBY+Jaune and Neo), Team Refugees (Ren, Nora, Oscar, Emerald, The Schnees and Klein, Happy Huntresses, and the civilian refugees of Atlas and Mantle), Team Left Behind (Qrow, Robyn and the Aces), Team Road Trip (Mercury and Tyrian) and Team Bad Bitches (Salem and Cinder).
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    Also Maria and Pietro, unless they're dead.
     
    Weiss has come a long way but I still would have liked more detailed development. I mentioned that I'm rather fond of deeply flawed characters becoming better over the course of a story (in BBC's the lady vanishes the main character is a spoiled rich girl who discovers a nobility she never knew she had when an old lady who helped her goes missing and no one seems to care; or in Masters of Kung Fu, the character of Blackjack Tar starts out as a deeply unpleasant and racist asshole, but after repeatedly getting challenged on his bigotry he grows out out it and becomes much more likable.)

    I LIKE that kind of character growth and think that with more budget and time they could have done that with Weiss.
     
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    Largely just stating personal preference. I DIG deep character development and on a personal level would have liked to see that with Weiss
     
    I am a little confused about WHY you and others disagree about it to be honest. The show itself made bigotry a part of her character in Vol 1, and having her just stop being racist feels.....kinda cheap and rushed. So again, why is it a bad thing to show her slowly grow out of it? I mean in earlier volumes I get it; they didn't have as long a run time and they were still learning the ropes in a lot of ways.

    And she doesn't even need to be super racist or anything; I was thinking more like the kind of white moderate MLK jr described (the kind who either ignores the issue because it makes them uncomfortable or who just naively assumes that since the system is just that any minority who opposes/gets punished by said system must be a bad guy.) Even perfectly nice and noble people fall into THAT trap, and there have been MANY wonderful cases of flawed people getting better through development (Han Solo is another, Parker from Alien, Liliana Vess from MTG, the examples mentioned above).
     
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    LordYam said:
    I am a little confused about WHY you and others disagree about it to be honest.
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    People already explained themselves, I'm not doing it for the ninth time, just so you can ignore everything presented again and argue the only way a person can know slavery is bad is by someone grabbing their face and rubbing it into the ground.
     
    LordYam said:
    The show itself made bigotry a part of her character in Vol 1, and having her just stop being racist feels.....kinda cheap and rushed. So again, why is it a bad thing to show her slowly grow out of it?
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    Going to agree with this one.

    Especially since with Weiss stepping in to save Blake twice from racists, it feels like there was a missing "middle" step where she outgrows her racism. Especially considering how that racism is born out of fear (Faunaphobia?) given the whole "at war with the White Fang" bit.

    Instead, Weiss goes from "The innocent never run" to "I don't care." in a blink of an eye with only an excuse of "well, I spent some time thinking". Then after that, not really much about that part of her character outside of the aforementioned stepping in for Blake moments.

    Then again, most character arcs in RWBY are more akin to flip switches than dimmer switches and this is relating to a subplot that RT really wants to wash their hands of given how quickly they wrote off the White Fang characters.

    Zam said:
    People already explained themselves, I'm not doing it for the ninth time, just so you can ignore everything presented again and argue the only way a person can know slavery is bad is by someone grabbing their face and rubbing it into the ground.
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    ... That's not what LordYam is saying at all.

    Like, how do you get "the only way a person can know slavery is bad is by someone grabbing their face and rubbing it into the ground." out of "Weiss's character arc about overcoming her racism was a little too rushed for my tastes"?
     
    Except the show ITSELF made Weiss be an outright racist. Having her just....stop being one like the show did feels really really rushed as Psyga pointed out, not to mention DEEPLY insincere. Can you at least understand WHY people might think that, or find the Season 1 resolution deeply unsatisfying?

    And if a person's an outright racist then yes you kinda DO have to rub the wrongness in their face; even many moderates who don't think of themselves as racist have to have it rubbed in to really get the hint. It really does feel like the real reason many people don't want to see that is because it feels uncomfortable to watch a character you like be put through that.

    Again, the issue is that Weiss not being racist felt SUPER rushed, which in turn made it feel rather insincere and the only reason to avoid the middle step is either they weren't quite skilled enough or it would have been uncomfortable.
     
    LordYam said:
    I am a little confused about WHY you and others disagree about it to be honest. The show itself made bigotry a part of her character in Vol 1, and having her just stop being racist feels.....kinda cheap and rushed. So again, why is it a bad thing to show her slowly grow out of it? I mean in earlier volumes I get it; they didn't have as long a run time and they were still learning the ropes in a lot of ways.

    And she doesn't even need to be super racist or anything; I was thinking more like the kind of white moderate MLK jr described (the kind who either ignores the issue because it makes them uncomfortable or who just naively assumes that since the system is just that any minority who opposes/gets punished by said system must be a bad guy.) Even perfectly nice and noble people fall into THAT trap, and there have been MANY wonderful cases of flawed people getting better through development (Han Solo is another, Parker from Alien, Liliana Vess from MTG, the examples mentioned above).
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    Early Weis, in particular, has a good excuse for a degree of casual racism. After all, the world she grew up in largely conforms to her views: the military and police are genuinely there to protect her, capable people (e.g. her sister) are rewarded for their hard work, there are very few Faunus in positions of power, the Faunus she is likely to be most aware of are violent terrorists who have attacked people she knows. Why wouldn't she assume that Faunus are where they are, and are treated as inferior, due to genuine deficiencies in their character? Systemic racism? What's that and who would have brought it up to a teen in Weis's position; who would have been allowed to?

    At the same time, she knows her father isn't a good person and he employs some despicable practices, so clearly everything isn't rosy. That helps to avoid a lot of the more racist positions (e.g. she should realize things like slavery and mutilation are bad) and helps open the way to her learning how wrong her prior assumptions really were. I could see a more detailed treatment having her lose a lot of the more obvious prejudices quickly, since she's already primed to reject them, but constantly stumbling over little things that she hadn't even realized she had internalized or were rooted in racism. Her reaction to those discoveries could also be quite interesting.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Early Weis, in particular, has a good excuse for a degree of casual racism. After all, the world she grew up in largely conforms to her views: the military and police are genuinely there to protect her, capable people (e.g. her sister) are rewarded for their hard work, there are very few Faunus in positions of power, the Faunus she is likely to be most aware of are violent terrorists who have attacked people she knows. Why wouldn't she assume that Faunus are where they are, and are treated as inferior, due to genuine deficiencies in their character? Systemic racism? What's that and who would have brought it up to a teen in Weis's position; who would have been allowed to?

    At the same time, she knows her father isn't a good person and he employs some despicable practices, so clearly everything isn't rosy. That helps to avoid a lot of the more racist positions (e.g. she should realize things like slavery and mutilation are bad) and helps open the way to her learning how wrong her prior assumptions really were. I could see a more detailed treatment having her lose a lot of the more obvious prejudices quickly, since she's already primed to reject them, but constantly stumbling over little things that she hadn't even realized she had internalized or were rooted in racism. Her reaction to those discoveries could also be quite interesting.
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    Pretty much. I DON'T see her being the kind who'd justify branding, and think anyone who DOES want her to be that way is an idiot. I DO think she can have a lot of CASUAL bigotry (i.e. assuming that any Faunus who gets arrested MUST be a bad guy because the police wouldn't frame them for no reason). I've seen perfectly nice people get upset when I pointed out that the criminal justice system gleefully ignores misconduct unless they have no choice, and a lot of white people react violently if you point out that YES the police often DO frame minorities.

    Edit: And You're not really addressing the point. You also blatantly straw manned what I was actually saying (that Weiss's arc was extremely rushed and having her just stop being racist is just lazy writing.)
     
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    Zam said:
    People already explained themselves, I'm not doing it for the ninth time, just so you can ignore everything presented again and argue the only way a person can know slavery is bad is by someone grabbing their face and rubbing it into the ground.
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    They really didn't though. Their explanations boiled down to "I just want it this way" or "it would be uncomfortable and I don't want to be uncomfortable". At least one person argued that it would be impossible to enjoy the story if Weiss was a racist so they HAD to have her overcome it quickly. Bull fucking crap. That's LAZY.
     
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    LordYam said:
    They really didn't though. Their explanations boiled down to "I just want it this way" or "it would be uncomfortable and I don't want to be uncomfortable". At least one person argued that it would be impossible to enjoy the story if Weiss was a racist so they HAD to have her overcome it quickly. Bull fucking crap. That's LAZY.
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    Um, no, people explained how Weiss's backstory informed her words as well as how and why that allowed for a swifter shift in terms of personality than it might for someone else, which you persistently dismissed in favor of saying Weiss needed to suffer to learn slavery is bad.
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Could you please stop posting random links to tumbler threads? They don't seem to add much and the frequency is kind-of off putting.
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    I and others have been doing this for years, its one of the main ways discussions even happen on here, the fact you don't know that honestly beggars belief and leads me to wonder if you've ever actually spent any time here before deciding to come in to complain about Adam.
     
    Honestly it's just how we topic pivot rather than have the four hundredth and twelfth fight about the usual RWBY bugbears.

    God, Hiatus Madness is overtaking us all.
     
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