RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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Did they actually say when the new Grim would be used in season 8? I can't remember if they confirmed when it was going to be making an appearance.
 
Did they actually say when the new Grim would be used in season 8? I can't remember if they confirmed when it was going to be making an appearance.
Or even for how long the Grimm would be on screen?

Because we could either get an Apathy situation where they're the star of an entire episode or two or only have five seconds before it gets killed by someone.
 
for Sunder Of Gold

I found sand pits.
basically think of the Sarlac pit from Star Wars or basically what Antlions do in real life.
petty much a deep pit of loose sand that can be dangerous and hard to get out of depending on various conditions you find yourself in.
 
I agree that they did a very good job with Ironwood, because despite the fact he is clearly in the wrong and gets called out for it, there are still genuine moments of sympathy for the character.

Moments when you want him to win and moments where you think he might - just might - come to his senses. It's a very interesting path to take.
 
I agree that they did a very good job with Ironwood, because despite the fact he is clearly in the wrong and gets called out for it, there are still genuine moments of sympathy for the character.

Moments when you want him to win and moments where you think he might - just might - come to his senses. It's a very interesting path to take.
Yeah he's definitely nuanced but still like, undeniably wrong and doing bad things; it'd be easy to have made him more overt or more cheerfully malicious but that would ruin the drama, the tension, the hope-spot and leave one wondering how he didn't do all this sooner. There's definitely a place for general ripped type characters, but that is not what was needed her and it works so much better for making Ironwood what he is.

Also:

Some interesting before the dawn spoilers:

On Team Make Ups.
 
Yeah he's definitely nuanced but still like, undeniably wrong and doing bad things; it'd be easy to have made him more overt or more cheerfully malicious but that would ruin the drama, the tension, the hope-spot and leave one wondering how he didn't do all this sooner. There's definitely a place for general ripped type characters, but that is not what was needed her and it works so much better for making Ironwood what he is.

Also:

Some interesting before the dawn spoilers:

On Team Make Ups.


post 1
So the plan was to make Team NOVA go....Supernova? BOOOM

post 2
To add more to Oz and choice, we even hear about it once Oz reunites with Ruby and friends as Oscar in volume 5. Bird Powers? Choice. Letting Raven fly off and seemingly not hunt her ass down? It was Raven's choice to leave and since she has not caused them problems Ozpin has seemingly not held it against her to back out of the fight. He even posed the choice to them right there. Stay and continue the mission, or walk away from it. Light gave Oz a choice at the start of all this as well as a warning, and he fucked up. And now he tries to guide the future of the world to make better choices.
 
@Zam Haven't read the book yet but that definitely sounds like a Salem plan. Works perfectly in her favor. Makes me wonder how many chessboards she's got set up at the same time on Monstro's back.
 
post 1
So the plan was to make Team NOVA go....Supernova? BOOOM

post 2
To add more to Oz and choice, we even hear about it once Oz reunites with Ruby and friends as Oscar in volume 5. Bird Powers? Choice. Letting Raven fly off and seemingly not hunt her ass down? It was Raven's choice to leave and since she has not caused them problems Ozpin has seemingly not held it against her to back out of the fight. He even posed the choice to them right there. Stay and continue the mission, or walk away from it. Light gave Oz a choice at the start of all this as well as a warning, and he fucked up. And now he tries to guide the future of the world to make better choices.
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I guess XD

Post 2:
This I find rather charitable given Ozpin's plan for the Spring Maiden was at best violently force her into his service, or B, kill her and try to force her powers into someone who was loyal to him and also that he kept people in the dark about tons of info, thus removing their ability to make an informed choice. So while I think choice is thematically important when it comes to Oz, I don't think he's an ideal narrative embodiment of it.
@Zam Haven't read the book yet but that definitely sounds like a Salem plan. Works perfectly in her favor. Makes me wonder how many chessboards she's got set up at the same time on Monstro's back.
Its possible, though other reviews indicate it may be its own thing.
 
Post 1:
I guess XD

Post 2:
This I find rather charitable given Ozpin's plan for the Spring Maiden was at best violently force her into his service, or B, kill her and try to force her powers into someone who was loyal to him and also that he kept people in the dark about tons of info, thus removing their ability to make an informed choice. So while I think choice is thematically important when it comes to Oz, I don't think he's an ideal narrative embodiment of it.

Its possible, though other reviews indicate it may be its own thing.

I highly doubt Oz would be that cruel. If he was he would not of hesitated so much in trying to shove Amber's half of Fall into Pyrrha. If he is willing to double check for consent in the middle of a crisis, I doubt he'd force anyone to work for him or do a killing when the current pressure was far less then what he had during the attack. At best it'd be; Go in, knock out any bandits in the way, locate and retrieve Spring, and GTFO.
 
I highly doubt Oz would be that cruel. If he was he would not of hesitated so much in trying to shove Amber's half of Fall into Pyrrha. If he is willing to double check for consent in the middle of a crisis, I doubt he'd force anyone to work for him or do a killing when the current pressure was far less then what he had during the attack. At best it'd be; Go in, knock out any bandits in the way, locate and retrieve Spring, and GTFO.
Keep in mind Spring wasn't being held against her will as far as they knew, she'd bolted because she didn't want a part in their war and joins Raven's tribe. The only resolution that makes sense with his "Raid the bandits" plan would be forcing her into his service or killing her. In truth I don't view Ozpin asking for consent with Pyrrha as a mark for him so much as a sign of him trying to alleviate his own guilt rather than done out of concern for Pyrrha is that makes sense.
 
Keep in mind Spring wasn't being held against her will as far as they knew, she'd bolted because she didn't want a part in their war and joins Raven's tribe. The only resolution that makes sense with his "Raid the bandits" plan would be forcing her into his service or killing her. In truth I don't view Ozpin asking for consent with Pyrrha as a mark for him so much as a sign of him trying to alleviate his own guilt rather than done out of concern for Pyrrha is that makes sense.
Or he could have figured that he could talk Spring into joining up after the Fall of Beacon sort of made Salem a much more real threat. It's hard to get someone on board giving their lives for a cause when as far as they can tell that cause isn't really all that pressing. Much different when the world is in imminent danger.
 
Or he could have figured that he could talk Spring into joining up after the Fall of Beacon sort of made Salem a much more real threat. It's hard to get someone on board giving their lives for a cause when as far as they can tell that cause isn't really all that pressing. Much different when the world is in imminent danger.
The "We plan to raid the camp" says otherwise, and if knowing the basic truth of Salem was enough to scare Spring off, why would "She's an even bigger threat now" do anything but make her want to run/hide more or even just join up with Salem?
 
And keep in mind that Oz would rather let one of the last few Huntsmen in Mistral die or push/attack Ruby than let anyone on his side know the truth of the Relic or Salem respectively.

With that in mind, it does not bode well for what he had planned for the Spring Maiden.
 
Keep in mind Spring wasn't being held against her will as far as they knew, she'd bolted because she didn't want a part in their war and joins Raven's tribe. The only resolution that makes sense with his "Raid the bandits" plan would be forcing her into his service or killing her. In truth I don't view Ozpin asking for consent with Pyrrha as a mark for him so much as a sign of him trying to alleviate his own guilt rather than done out of concern for Pyrrha is that makes sense.
The "We plan to raid the camp" says otherwise, and if knowing the basic truth of Salem was enough to scare Spring off, why would "She's an even bigger threat now" do anything but make her want to run/hide more or even just join up with Salem?

And yet between Ozpin being big on "choice" and how that played out with his relationship with the Branwen twins, Oz really does not come off as the kind of person who forces others to do anything. He advises, he suggests, he guides. Heck, the most angry and demanding we ever see him was when he is ordering Pyrrha and Jaune to GFTO of the vault (to safeguard their lives) and when he is trying to get Yang and the others to back off and get Ruby to not call on Jinn (trying to keep his past to himself).



And keep in mind that Oz would rather let one of the last few Huntsmen in Mistral die or push/attack Ruby than let anyone on his side know the truth of the Relic or Salem respectively.

With that in mind, it does not bode well for what he had planned for the Spring Maiden.

Are.....are you seriously blaming the fate of Dumb and Dumber on Ozpin? Really?
 
oh and not to mention, the plan to take on the bandit camp to fetch Spring was QROW'S idea, before Oscar even rolled up to him at that bar.
 
And yet between Ozpin being big on "choice" and how that played out with his relationship with the Branwen twins, Oz really does not come off as the kind of person who forces others to do anything. He advises, he suggests, he guides. Heck, the most angry and demanding we ever see him was when he is ordering Pyrrha and Jaune to GFTO of the vault (to safeguard their lives) and when he is trying to get Yang and the others to back off and get Ruby to not call on Jinn (trying to keep his past to himself).
He also lies, hides and manipulates, and also rushed Ruby to try and steal the lamp so they wouldn't learn he'd been lying about Salem.
Wait, Spring wasn't even his jurisdiction anymore, she's Haven's.
oh and not to mention, the plan to take on the bandit camp to fetch Spring was QROW'S idea, before Oscar even rolled up to him at that bar.
The point here is that Ozpin was all in on a plan to get the powers of the Spring Maiden back under his factions control and there are only two ways that was gonna happen when their plan hinged on "Raid the camp".
 
He also lies, hides and manipulates, and also rushed Ruby to try and steal the lamp so they wouldn't learn he'd been lying about Salem.


The point here is that Ozpin was all in on a plan to get the powers of the Spring Maiden back under his factions control and there are only two ways that was gonna happen when their plan hinged on "Raid the camp".

And given what Jinn showed us I can not blame him for not wanting Ruby and the others to see. That and his breakdown were probably his most human moments in the entire show. Instead of a wise, if odd, old wizard, he became in my eyes and old, sad soul who has struggled for lord knows how long.

As for Spring, they needed find and protect her. The attack on Amber and the following Fall of Beacon made it damn clear Salem was making her move and the targets of attack were the Maidens and the Schools. So I doubt Oz had nefarious plans for Spring. He and Qrow can't exactly be sure she is safe is she is out there somewhere and could do a better job, in theory, of keeping her out of Salem's clutches if she is under their direct watch. For "Raid the camp" I mean it's not like they could stroll up to Raven's camp, knock on the gate and ask "Hey, can we watch over Spring for a while to make sure Salem's minions don't come for her?"
 
Plus, would you trust Raven with a Maiden if you had any other choice? Especially since Qrow just got confirmation in Volume 4 her arrogance and carelessness is getting villages wiped out by Grimm?
 
Plus, would you trust Raven with a Maiden if you had any other choice? Especially since Qrow just got confirmation in Volume 4 her arrogance and carelessness is getting villages wiped out by Grimm?
Not really the point here Matrix Dragon. The point is that Ozpin talks up a good game about choice and does some good stuff in that front but is also kinda hypocritical about it, hence why he needed to be called out and go away for awhile.
And given what Jinn showed us I can not blame him for not wanting Ruby and the others to see. That and his breakdown were probably his most human moments in the entire show. Instead of a wise, if odd, old wizard, he became in my eyes and old, sad soul who has struggled for lord knows how long.

As for Spring, they needed find and protect her. The attack on Amber and the following Fall of Beacon made it damn clear Salem was making her move and the targets of attack were the Maidens and the Schools. So I doubt Oz had nefarious plans for Spring. He and Qrow can't exactly be sure she is safe is she is out there somewhere and could do a better job, in theory, of keeping her out of Salem's clutches if she is under their direct watch. For "Raid the camp" I mean it's not like they could stroll up to Raven's camp, knock on the gate and ask "Hey, can we watch over Spring for a while to make sure Salem's minions don't come for her?"
I never said Ozpin didn't have reason to be sad, however that doesn't change the fact that he was lying to and manipulating them into a war under the pretense he had a plan and a way to win when really he had no idea what he was doing beyond desperately stalling for time and thus was having people make "Choices" under false pretenses and also making choices for them by being the only one to dictate how the battle with Salem was handled.

Again, there are only two ways this ends, Spring forced against her will to work for Ozpin, or Spring dead. Also no mention of "protection" ever came into it.
 
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