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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Delphisage said:
    I feel like if I state that my point was how RWBY was literally that even in spite of their attempts at storytelling, that something bad will happen to me.
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    Well, you just did, and the most I'm feeling compelled to do that could be construed as "something bad" is say that that can only really be applied to the trailers and, at a stretch, much of Volume 1.

    And, at least in the trailers' case, it's fine there, just as it's fine here, because a trailer is meant to imply the deeper story and hint at it anyway.
     
    I was leaning more on the "this show only IMPLIES backstory between its characters" part. Though I guess sometimes the show just tells us they have backstory without showing it. A lot of Season 5 was like that.
     
    Oh right.

    ...I'm not sure how to rephrase. Maybe say something like "ONLY implies backstory instead of makes good characters"?
     
    And on top of that, "fleshed-out backstory" and "good character" are, while often related to each other, not at all things that are universally found together (correlation and causation and such), so it kind of sounds like you're confused as to what your point is if you're just using this as a way to say you think the characters aren't good. You can just say you don't think the characters are good, if that's the case. We're (mostly) all adults here.
     
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    Delphisage said:
    Except to just state you don't like the characters is flimsy reasoning that anyone can effortlessly retort with a Big Lebowski macro.
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    True, it contributes more to the discussion if you can supply a "why" instead of just giving your opinion and then dropping it there on the ground.

    So, let's try to analyze it. Is it that you think the characters come off as flat or two-dimensional, where you feel like you can't really get invested in their struggles because they feel boring and stock? Or does their characterization seem inconsistent, where you feel like they make major shifts with the needs of the writing rather than where appropriate for who they are? Do you even just think they come off as unlikable, where you don't even really care how a situation is resolved because it feels like it doesn't matter who wins?

    Essentially, what is the feeling you get that leads you to think the characters aren't very good? If you can identify that, it's much easier to puzzle out what you don't like about them, why it comes off that way to you, and perhaps even (if we're lucky) what they would have to do to fix that.
     
    Caught up with watching RWBY recently after having to drop it in season 2 due to work commitments a while back.

    I like it, I like the development, characters and so on. For what it is I don't really have any complaints. My long absence means I'm fairly ignorant of anything going on production-wise, so looking forward to the next season.
     
    Marco said:
    Caught up with watching RWBY recently after having to drop it in season 2 due to work commitments a while back.

    I like it, I like the development, characters and so on. For what it is I don't really have any complaints. My long absence means I'm fairly ignorant of anything going on production-wise, so looking forward to the next season.
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    Welcome back, I am glad you enjoyed it!

    All we know so far is that lines are apparently being recorded, also Arryn has been teasing people with hints XD
     
    Just read a really interesting analyse about how in V3, the deaths of Penny and Pyrrha shows the audience that important and beloved side characters could die and that the villains will just straight up ice people, and what's more that said deaths won't necessarily be expected, heroic or pretty.

    And how now, with the death of Adam and the sort of showing Ruby has given to Tyrien and her tricking Cordoven, has been done to show that the villains are not safe either. In V3 it was the classic teenage/kid series villain deaths where it was tripping the villain up (Neo) or a big monster ETC (Roman) Here and now though, no, Blake & Yang gave Adam every chance to leave cos they aren't callous murderous, but when he scrambled for a weapon despite being defeated, they took him down and it wasn't until they were sure he was dead that they let their guard drop and Blake in particular showed her own pain over having to do as such just to stay alive. What's more, Adam's death was like Pyrrha and Penny's in that it was sudden, grisly and to the point, no last big speeches, just a stunned oh, staggering and likely dying before even hitting the water.

    End result, while not cold blooded, RWBY as a show is shaping up to be a series where the villains are no safer than the heroes who had already been established as not safe from death or massive trauma and loss of limbs. And with that in mind, certain villainous or "antagonistic" figures likely shouldn't get too comfortable.
     
    Zam said:
    RWBY as a show is shaping up to be a series where the villains are no safer than the heroes
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    Do I seriously need to mention everything Cinder has survived? Or Hazel? Or anything related to Season 5? Heck, Qrow and Tyrian in Season 4? And how even though the former had his VA fired, they're still keeping him around for Season 7?
     
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    Delphisage said:
    Do I seriously need to mention everything Cinder has survived? Or Hazel? Or anything related to Season 5? Heck, Qrow and Tyrian in Season 4? And how even though the former had his VA fired, they're still keeping him around for Season 7?
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    I mean this argument involved literally missing or ignoring the entire premise and context of my post and how Adam's death is a signal for a tonal/attitude shift among the cast and that it is meant to signify where the series is going from this point forward. Plus your post doesn't really argue much of anything given all Hazel survived was one battle, V5 isn't a character, Tyrien lost his tail (Yang says hi) and Qrow isn't a villain. Also them killing Qrow cos his VA is a creep makes no sense.
     
    Zam said:
    I mean this argument involved literally missing or ignoring the entire premise and context of my post and how Adam's death is a signal for a tonal/attitude shift among the cast and that it is meant to signify where the series is going from this point forward.
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    I can swear that a bunch of people have made very similar sounding arguments back when Season 3 ended...
    Plus your post doesn't really argue much of anything given all Hazel survived was one battle, V5 isn't a character, Tyrien lost his tail (Yang says hi) and Qrow isn't a villain. Also them killing Qrow cos his VA is a creep makes no sense.
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    Hazel survived a whole bunch of punishment that he really shouldn't have just walked off due to most of the Season 5 climax taking place offscreen, handwaving it as being due to "recharging aura". Tyrian got a new tail. Qrow survived being poisoned through sheer force of Deus Ex Machina.
    Season 5 (stop fucking calling them Volumes) had a bunch of opportunities to kill characters off, but didn't. In the end, the only people to die that season were all unimportant to the plot. They could've at least had Cinder killed off, but then Season 6 decided to resurrect her, so even that doesn't count.
     
    Delphisage said:
    I can swear that a bunch of people have made very similar sounding arguments back when Season 3 ended...
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    and whadayaknow the tone of the show has changed to be in line with the end of vol 3
    Hazel survived a whole bunch of punishment that he really shouldn't have just walked off due to most of the Season 5 climax taking place offscreen, handwaving it as being due to "recharging aura". Tyrian got a new tail. Qrow survived being poisoned through sheer force of Deus Ex Machina.
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    I mean... is it really handwaving? They gave good reasons for why his aura recharges so fast. Tyrian got a new tail, Yang got a new arm. That's one for one on good guys and bad guys. Didn't Qrow end up getting airlifted to a hospital after the final big battle that blew up a good chunk of an abandoned town?
    Season 5 (stop fucking calling them Volumes) had a bunch of opportunities to kill characters off, but didn't. In the end, the only people to die that season were all unimportant to the plot. They could've at least had Cinder killed off, but then Season 6 decided to resurrect her, so even that doesn't count.
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    Yes, lets stop calling them by their official designations. I can't remember which volume was which so I'm just going to go 'yes, of course, Adam and the trauma he caused both girls was completely irrelevant and killing him off was not at all worth putting in the show' with a hefty dose of sarcasm.
     
    Delphisage said:
    I can swear that a bunch of people have made very similar sounding arguments back when Season 3 ended...
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    I mean you haven't provided proof of that nor is it relevant so... your point?

    Delphisage said:
    Hazel survived a whole bunch of punishment that he really shouldn't have just walked off due to most of the Season 5 climax taking place offscreen, handwaving it as being due to "recharging aura". Tyrian got a new tail. Qrow survived being poisoned through sheer force of Deus Ex Machina.
    Season 5 (stop fucking calling them Volumes) had a bunch of opportunities to kill characters off, but didn't. In the end, the only people to die that season were all unimportant to the plot. They could've at least had Cinder killed off, but then Season 6 decided to resurrect her, so even that doesn't count.
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    You do know that it isn't bad writing if it is explained and fits within the world right? Hazel regenerates Aura at an absurd rate, it is why his stupid self destructive fighting style can even work for him. We already know prosthetic are a thing so this complain it "????" and yeah, Qrow survived being poisoned, they got him to medical care and hes a Hunter. People being alive isn't a counter argument.

    Volume 5 happened before the Adam death which was the impetus for the posts analyse, so as noted, you aren't actually addressing the concept put forth.
     
    Really, all Adam's death proved was showing how the girls were willing to kill on purpose instead of accidentally like what happened at the tunnels and Argus.
     
    Delphisage said:
    Heck, Qrow and Tyrian in Season 4? And how even though the former had his VA fired, they're still keeping him around for Season 7?
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    Qrow was originally written as a part for Monty, not Vic and has a minor amount importance for multiple character arcs.

    Slightly unlikely they'll kill him off rather then change the actor.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Really, all Adam's death proved was showing how the girls were willing to kill on purpose instead of accidentally like what happened at the tunnels and Argus.
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    ... Did you read what I posted?

    Zam said:
    Just read a really interesting analyse about how in V3, the deaths of Penny and Pyrrha shows the audience that important and beloved side characters could die and that the villains will just straight up ice people, and what's more that said deaths won't necessarily be expected, heroic or pretty.

    And how now, with the death of Adam and the sort of showing Ruby has given to Tyrien and her tricking Cordoven, has been done to show that the villains are not safe either. In V3 it was the classic teenage/kid series villain deaths where it was tripping the villain up (Neo) or a big monster ETC (Roman) Here and now though, no, Blake & Yang gave Adam every chance to leave cos they aren't callous murderous, but when he scrambled for a weapon despite being defeated, they took him down and it wasn't until they were sure he was dead that they let their guard drop and Blake in particular showed her own pain over having to do as such just to stay alive. What's more, Adam's death was like Pyrrha and Penny's in that it was sudden, grisly and to the point, no last big speeches, just a stunned oh, staggering and likely dying before even hitting the water.

    End result, while not cold blooded, RWBY as a show is shaping up to be a series where the villains are no safer than the heroes who had already been established as not safe from death or massive trauma and loss of limbs. And with that in mind, certain villainous or "antagonistic" figures likely shouldn't get too comfortable.
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