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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • TheBleachDoctor said:
    The gradual quality increase during Season 2.
    Didn't you see it?
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    Sorry, I must have missed some surrounding context as I just didn't understand where the statement came from, I may have forgotten a previous post, and was wondering if they had done something recently to make you say that like release a clip or something. But indeed, they have improved a lot and are already seeming to improve further as the future goes on. (Hoping we get more Ruby tin season 3, and Neo/Yang XD)
     
    Hm. So I dropped RWBY just a few episodes in - couldn't get past the voice acting and pace, basically - but did my usual wiki-trawl when I was recommended a RWBY fanfic. You know the one - Ryuugi and I have our disagreements, but the guy can pump out words.

    I couldn't help but notice - and wonder if anyone else had - that the setting is nigh-identical to that of Blazblue. Well, I like the Blazblue setting better, but the story is a tangled fighting game mess of time travel and alternate timelines.

    So, both are probably-far-future settings where a nondescript apocalypse of some kind unleashed roaming monsters and fantastical resources into the world.

    Both have beastmen who suffer racism from a giant corporation/government which is corrupt but nevertheless necessary for stability, and have a rebel group fighting against that government with extremely questionable methods.

    Both have corps of essentially superhuman (though in-universe it's training) people who go out and fight monsters to protect isolated cities and settlements separated by big gulfs of monsters and fantastical hazards.

    Both have a "this is totally not oil we swear it's all magic" resource, both have the same level of technology/technomagic, with a focus on dumb and/or anachronistic weapons like giant swords or scythes that turn into guns or robot girls with a ton of floating swords.

    Both have a fair chunk of the setting dedicated to a standard-issue Child Soldier Hogwarts, and both are anime-styled fight-based character-centric settings with humour breaking up the action...

    Even their general aesthetic is pretty similar. You could transplant pretty much any character from one setting into the other without missing a beat, just change the names of a few proper nouns.
     
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    a few things that are a bit inaccurate
    Revlid said:
    both are probably-far-future settings where a nondescript apocalypse of some kind unleashed roaming monsters and fantastical resources into the world.
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    this is currently speculation there has been nothing in show about where the Grim came from or "precursor civilisations".
    Revlid said:
    both have isolated cities and settlements separated by big gulfs of monsters and fantastical hazards
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    cities aren't entirely in RWBY most of the intercity travel there are several instances of people going between them usually by fantasy VTOL large aircraft, there's also large expensive specialised buildings that allow Telecommunication between the cities.
    Revlid said:
    a standard-issue Child Soldier Hogwarts
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    standard joining age for the Military schools in setting seems to be 17 which is a year under the US's enlistment age and older students doesn't seem to be out of place (or one of the characters has an exceptionally well done disguise, either or).
     
    Carrnage said:
    this is currently speculation there has been nothing in show about where the Grim came from or "precursor civilisations".
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    The setting is called "Remnant", so I'd be surprised and disappointed if it wasn't, well, a remnant.

    Carrnage said:
    cities aren't entirely in RWBY most of the intercity travel there are several instances of people going between them usually by fantasy VTOL large aircraft, there's also large expensive specialised buildings that allow Telecommunication between the cities.
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    Assuming the missing word there is "isolated", that's also the case for the Blazblue setting. Magitech airships and similar transportation ferry people across great wastelands occupied by monsters.

    Carrnage said:
    standard joining age for the Military schools in setting seems to be 17 which is a year under the US's enlistment age and older students doesn't seem to be out of place (or one of the characters has an exceptionally well done disguise, either or).
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    And in Blazblue it's a Librarium Military Academy where late teenagers learn battle magic and etc. I'm using the term "standard-issue Child Soldier Hogwarts" to refer to the fact that it's a supernatural school setting dedicated to combat. Granted, the Military Academy at least has an actual dress code...

    So, yeah, preeetty similar, verging on indistinguishable.
     
    Just requested Monty Oum for San Japan in texas.

    I REALLY hope they manage to get him to come along, if only to see him do dance dance revolution in person.
     
    Jayses Feck.

    I watched RWBY S1 and S2 again over the last days and.... for fucks sake, after a decent second season (character development!) they fucked up the ending again.

    Damn you Tempera for drawing the comparison between the RWBY S2 finale and the series finale to Angel, because the latter did everything right where the S2 finale completely flubbed the Dramatic Happenings button.
     
    It had it's flaws I'll admit but I think it worked fairly well overall and there's a reasonable explanation for the whole Grimm not wrecking everything bit.
     
    It introduces a dozen new characters for no reason other than to SHOW OFF THEIR MOVES. IN THE F***ING FINALE.

    The Army responds within moments and is promptly rolled completely.

    It has no weight, no gravitas, to what should be a catastrophic breach in Vale's security.

    Glynda Goodwitch just walks up, waves her hands, and EVERYTHING IS FINE AGAIN.

    The finale was pure, condensed disappointment after an otherwise enjoyable season. For fucks sake.
     
    Cornuthaum said:
    It introduces a dozen new characters for no reason other than to SHOW OFF THEIR MOVES. IN THE F***ING FINALE.

    The Army responds within moments and is promptly rolled completely.

    It has no weight, no gravitas, to what should be a catastrophic breach in Vale's security.

    Glynda Goodwitch just walks up, waves her hands, and EVERYTHING IS FINE AGAIN.

    The finale was pure, condensed disappointment after an otherwise enjoyable season. For fucks sake.
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    Is the first one so bad? We have a whole season to get to know the cast abilities and the character related fights were dealt with in the previous episode. Plus is the yelling necessary? Sorry if that seems rude.

    The army was flying all over what amounts to a city state to a long response time would be kind of hard to swallow and they didn't really get rolled from what I recall, they aren't at the level of Aura users but given robot haven't replaced Aura users yet that shouldn't be a shock.

    As I noted there's an explanation for that, the whole 'Get Grimm in' plan was set off days in advance to what it was meant to, thus the WhiteFang couldn't lure in nearly as many Grimm as intended. Plus, based on Cinder's vagueness, the Grimm destroying the city or anything to that affect was apparently not in the cards anyway.

    This was established as one of her abilities in the season opener so it's not shocking at least.

    That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, apologies if it seemed I was implying you were incorrect for feeling that way even if I feel differently.
     
    You do not make a season finale a collage of new characters showing off their moves.

    If the contents of Breach had been, idk, the midway point of the Season, that wouldn't have been a problem. But as-is? AaaaaAaargh. It's narratively awful.

    There's a time and a place for all things in storytelling, and a finale isn't the place for that.

    Furthermore, there's a reason why I am damning Tempera for pointing out the Angel series finale, because that one got the whole overwhelming horde of monsters completely right.

    Ultimately, it's just disappointing that the S2 finale did the same thing they did in S1, and went all "yo look at all these NEW CHARACTERS with their NEW POWERS doing FIGHT STUFF" instead of focusing on the core cast (in this case, Team RWBY and Team JNPR).

    sigh :( Disappointment thy name is RWBY.
     
    Cornuthaum said:
    You do not make a season finale a collage of new characters showing off their moves.

    If the contents of Breach had been, idk, the midway point of the Season, that wouldn't have been a problem. But as-is? AaaaaAaargh. It's narratively awful.

    There's a time and a place for all things in storytelling, and a finale isn't the place for that.

    Furthermore, there's a reason why I am damning Tempera for pointing out the Angel series finale, because that one got the whole overwhelming horde of monsters completely right.

    Ultimately, it's just disappointing that the S2 finale did the same thing they did in S1, and went all "yo look at all these NEW CHARACTERS with their NEW POWERS doing FIGHT STUFF" instead of focusing on the core cast (in this case, Team RWBY and Team JNPR).

    sigh :( Disappointment thy name is RWBY.
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    Where is the narrative rule that says one can't and or shouldn't?

    Again, there is a reason the Grimm weren't overwhelming.

    Still this is clearly a circular discussion, my apologies for jumpingin.
     
    *shrugs*

    I admit I am getting rather annoyed at the spotlight in the finals always been taken by new good guys (Penny + Team CFVY) but I don't agree that the Villains/Morally Ambiguous One didn't have their place. One thing I did like was that she wasn't in the last one at all.
     
    Pretty much everyone dislikes how trivial the whole "Horde of Grimm in the middle of the city" thing turned out to be. We got hyped for a serious struggle and they wrapped it up tidily in an afternoon. It's been talked to death already, but It's hard to take the Grimm seriously when this stuff happens.

    I'm also kinda disappointed with the way RWBY seems to adore having 'minor characters' steal all the spotlight. I swear, we know more about say, Penny or Jaune, than we do Weiss, and she's theoretically supposed to be part of the "Core cast". If season three ends on team RWBY getting upstaged by their professors or team SSSN or something, I'm going to lose my damn mind.

    Team Evil having still unclear, mysterious motives is a neutral thing for me. I'm not super hyped about finding out what they're planning or anything, but I can see why people are mad that we still have no idea what their goals are two seasons in. It's beginning to become silly.

    This has all been said a zillion times already, but it's just... I want to like this show! I really do! But I'm beginning to think that their writers can't cash the checks their fight choreographery and soundtracks are writing, yaknow? Sigh.
     
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    Cogsprocket said:
    This has all been said a zillion times already, but it's just... I want to like this show! I really do! But I'm beginning to think that their writers can't cash the checks their fight choreographery and soundtracks are writing, yaknow? Sigh.
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    Cornuthaum said:
    That, so very much.

    But instead of the Amazing that could be, what we get is terrifying mediocrity :(
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    And this right here just about sums up RWBY for me.

    There's just so many cool elements to the series, the fight scenes, the music, the characters, the setting, the Grimm, etc.

    But instead of coming together perfectly, it's....not flubbing, exactly. Just not living up to the potential it has.
     
    I still maintain the stuff made sense given the set up, and honestly barring those tow big Grim during initiation how often have the Grimm actually appeared as a 'threat' to an Aura user? Plus it's not like there wasn't a huge fan calling for team VFVY to get some attention, honestly having team RWBY beat back the invasion, while cool, would have been extremely hard to swallow despite it being smaller than intended.
     
    NMS said:
    When CRDL got attacked by that Ursa?
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    We've seen plenty of instances where Grimm aren't treated as much of a threat, but besides that the Ursa was noted to be large and team CRDL are pretty much the classic bully archetypes, they talk a big game but are really cowards inside. Chances are they could have taken it if they'd worked together but they were surprised and opted to run instead.
     
    Zam said:
    Where is the narrative rule that says one can't and or shouldn't?
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    I believe it's called the 75% Rule. It's a rule that says that you do not add new elements past the third quarter (75%) of the story, instead only using and elaborating on the past ones. Barring that, at most it's 90%. Adding new elements right at the end... yeah, that's just plain breaking of the rule.
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    Zam said:
    I still maintain the stuff made sense given the set up, and honestly barring those tow big Grim during initiation how often have the Grimm actually appeared as a 'threat' to an Aura user? Plus it's not like there wasn't a huge fan calling for team VFVY to get some attention, honestly having team RWBY beat back the invasion, while cool, would have been extremely hard to swallow despite it being smaller than intended.
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    Making sense does not equal entertainment and engagement. Sometimes, things that doesn't makes sense can be more entertaining and engaging, as rare as it is for the latter.

    Still, "making sense" depends on internal logic (in-universe logic) and external logic (narrative logic and relations to real-life logic) of the show. Real-life logic asides, it's possible to construct the other logics so that it "makes sense" for a more entertaining and engaging events to happen. But they didn't choose to do so, so you can't blame the audience to not like the story. Pretty much all blames in a story rests in the writer in most cases, really.
     
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    Feng Lengshun said:
    I believe it's called the 75% Rule. It's a rule that says that you do not add new elements past the third quarter (75%) of the story, instead only using and elaborating on the past ones. Barring that, at most it's 90%. Adding new elements right at the end... yeah, that's just plain breaking of the rule.
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    That one, if it exists, is not relevant. What people are apparently complaining about aren't exactly new elements coming in only at the climax. CFVY already existed and had screen time and everyone was waiting for what they could do. Same with Emerald and Mercury.

    For the record I didn't have a single problem with those teams getting spotlighted. We already know what RWBY can do and they were in over their heads. That's a theme, even a team can't stand by itself, it needs other teams pulling their weight to actually stand against the Grimm.
     
    Feng Lengshun said:
    I believe it's called the 75% Rule. It's a rule that says that you do not add new elements past the third quarter (75%) of the story, instead only using and elaborating on the past ones. Barring that, at most it's 90%. Adding new elements right at the end... yeah, that's just plain breaking of the rule.
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    I looked it up but I'm afraid I could only find stuff relating politics and computers. Besides that though Tropes, or rules, are tools I tend to feel over a rigid set of rules writers have to follow and subverting or not obeying them isn't an innate flaw in of itself. Not to say I feel the finale was perfectly executed but I tend to feel the hatred for it is a bit exaggerated or over aggressive.

    Feng Lengshun said:
    Making sense does not equal entertainment and engagement. Sometimes, things that doesn't makes sense can be more entertaining and engaging, as rare as it is for the latter.

    Still, "making sense" depends on internal logic (in-universe logic) and external logic (narrative logic and relations to real-life logic) of the show. Real-life logic asides, it's possible to construct the other logics so that it "makes sense" for a more entertaining and engaging events to happen. But they didn't choose to do so, so you can't blame the audience to not like the story. Pretty much all blames in a story rests in the writer in most cases, really.
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    That's something we'll have to disagree on, barring off the walls comedies I can rarely, if eve,r find something that's not internally consistent enjoyable because it breaks my suspension of disbelief and just comes across as lazy writing.

    Are they obligated to design something like that though? It's their project, if fans wanted it to become a Jaune harem series they aren't obligated to listen, nor is it their fault if people don't enjoy it because of that. (Poor argument my apologies.) Think of it this way, the writers obviously thought it was entertaining otherwise they would not have put it out, others, like myself, also thought it was entertaining, so they weren't, I feel, somehow 'wrong' for not putting something else out in their own work just because not all their viewers liked it. I don't care for Vegeta as a character in DBZ but others do, but I'm not going to say the author is at fault or to blame, or a bad writer because I don't care for him. At least not in the manner your statement seems to convey as it feels unfair to the writers.

    Edit:
    It's not that I'm against people not liking the finale, that's entirely up to personal taste and there are aspects of it I don't enjoy or feel could have been executed better. But when some of the critiques seem to be either a mixture of insults/anger or based on finding 'mistakes' that are either related to one's personal opinion or were explained within the show (like the Grimm threat level) I feel the need to try and counter.
     
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