RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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The Compost King episode of Rwby Chibi totally foreshadowed Oscar in the main show. :p
 
My question is: Should I watch Volume 4?
Eh. Probably not. The tone of the entire volume is generally the same tone of the middle of Volume 3. It's not "Everything's on fire!", but it's not, "We'll break his legs!", either. The character comedy isn't great, and the volume doesn't do a good job of being a cohesive whole, despite its attempts at it. If I were to sum up its problems in one sentence, it would be, "It's trying to do too much, and it's not trying to do enough, all at the same time."

This turned into a bit of a rant, but I've been wanting to rant about it for a while, because Volume 4 was so unsatisfying. It's a little spoilery, if only in broad strokes, but there's nothing I say here that's particularly surprising, except for a few pieces of Blake's past. The things I'm saying up here shouldn't fill you with confidence, but if you want to see a trainwreck, you might enjoy laughing at RWBY. (I wish I didn't have to say that. At least it's only in regard to Volume 4.)

There's six basic plotlines running through the volume. RNJR, Weiss, Blake, Yang, Cinder, and a new character named Oscar. RNJR's trying to get to Mistral and Haven, Weiss is trying to get out from her father's thumb, both Blake and Yang are trying to find direction, and Oscar's dealing with an inherited power and trying to figure out what to do with it. And none of these arcs are very compelling, for various reasons, except for Yang's.

RNJR manages to do nothing on their journey, except get into two pointless fight against two new villains, both of which aren't tied to any greater theme. Weiss gets pushed around by her father, but he's a caricature of an evil corporate head, has one line with any depth, and then Weiss leaves without a struggle. Blake visits her home in Menagerie, where her parents don't know how evil the White Fang has been, and she has a pointless fight against a previously unknown WF agent while other WF members plot evil in the background. She has a couple of good scenes with Sun and her dad, but that's about it. Yang's arc manages to be alright, but that's because Taiyang is there, and he's awesome. She gets a robot arm, and then leaves for Mistral. Cinder is badly injured after Ruby goes Silver Eyes on her, and she's recuperating with Salem's cabal of evil people, and all that really happens is that we learn that she's really messed up in the head. Finally, Oscar, the new character, is the new incarnation of Ozpin, or something like that, because Ozpin's talking in his head now. He flounders about on the farm he works at, until Ozpin convinces him to go to Mistral.

In short, Volume 4 takes all the plot hooks from Volume 3 and wastes the opportunity to do much with them.

There's other things that bother me, as well. None of the setpieces were particularly memorable, aside from Menagerie, which manages to be interesting because it's tropical and not Standard Fantasy Woodland #53021, and Salem's evil hideout, which is at the same place she was giving her villainous monologue from the end of last volume. But the Schnee mansion isn't nearly grandiose enough, RNJR don't visit anyplace special, and Yang's at her house for most of the time, which is fine, just a little boring.

Another part of it that bothered me was that they had a good avenue for more depth thematically with WBY and their fathers, and they don't deliver on it well enough. Yang and Taiyang are fine, but there isn't enough meat between Blake and her dad, and Weiss and her dad. Blake's dad was the former leader of the WF before the violent group took over, and Blake had a big fight with her parents about it. There's one good emotional scene they share, and then they don't really go anywhere with it afterwards. But Weiss's conflict with her father is the most egregious in its lack of depth.

Jacques Schnee has no real convictions, other than the mustache twirling money making good PR kind. He twists Weiss into singing at a charity event for PR because 'mustache twirling'. At the event, Weiss freaks out because everyone's shallow and rich and have no depth, and he gives the heirship to his son and grounds her after slapping her. Oh yeah, Weiss has a brother, forgot to mention that. :rolleyes: So then Weiss just walks out of the house after listening in on IMPORTANT CONVERSATION between Ironwood and her dad. No resolution between them, no depth to Jacques (except for one line during that IMPORTANT CONVERSATION), and much disappointment and disinterest from me.

I really enjoyed Volume 3, and I even drove 1500 miles to go to RTX because I was impressed by it and was getting hyped for Volume 4. By the time it rolled around, though, the show had lost me, and I could see through every attempt to get me emotionally invested in the characters.

Probably the biggest problem Volume 4 suffers from is that it's Act 1 of a three act story, and I don't mean that in a good way. Volume 1 was Act 1 of a three act story, but it had a good, character-driven finale, taken from the buildup of the entire season, and all the pieces in the Volume led to things in the later two acts. It held together, but Volume 4 doesn't. Now, that's not to say there aren't a few good moments in Volume 4, but a few good moments isn't enough to beat out all the drivel that surrounds it. All of the basic pieces for the season were there, but they weren't put together well at all, and they didn't make enough of a complete picture.

I have no idea whether or not I'm going to watch Volume 5. If I do, it won't be because of Volume 4.

If someone wants to jump in and defend Volume 4, please do. I'd like to hear from someone who actually liked it.
 
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Honestly my feelings are almost the opposite of the above.

I really loved Weiss's arc and don't really regard her father as some kind of 'caricature' I mean, just look at the types we have in the real world and I think it did a great job showing how oppressive and abusive her home life was.

I found the Jaune stuff grating and Ruby to lack focus to a painful degree, however the Ren and Nora stuff and the flashback were all fantastic and they had some great subtle character interaction and relationship development.

Blake and Yang however I really disliked for a lot of reasons, Blake's interactions with her parents were great (But I wish they'd been able to go all the way through or play a greater role in her growth) and finding out the level of info control the White Fang has was interesting but I am at best extremely discomforted by the rest of its handling and feel Blake's initial paranoia and trauma just got forgotten after the boat rid.

Yang's arc started out strong, but then I feel became rushed and unpleasant and Tai is the main reason for that as I dislike the handling of her character.
However in that case I have some hope that his scathing/judgemental view of Yang, demanding that she be symmetrical (The arm, his 'jokes' & 'critique/understanding' of her) and that his view of her is one sided and easily processed, but that Yang's 'misshapen' sparks and unseen beauty are greater than said arc gave her credit for.

End result, some strong starts in some areas, some weak middles and ends, with Oscar being kind of neutral cos I want to see where they're taking Ozpin with this first.

I recall a good review though that said one of the main issues for much of the arc was, beyond the difficulty of following so many stories, was that most episodes or the volume lacked a feeling of a satisfying conclusion the way say Burning the Candle or Players and Pieces did and that some of that was tied with the new villains who we had to get invested in very quickly for them to matter.
 
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However in that case I have some hope that his scathing/judgemental view of Yang, demanding that she be symmetrical (The arm, his 'jokes' & 'critique/understanding' of her) and that his view of her is one sided and easily processed, but that Yang's 'misshapen' sparks and unseen beauty are greater than said arc gave her credit for.
I took Tai's "scathing view" of Yang as his way to make her get out of her funk and get a grip of herself. Yang was always a no-filters, brutally honest kind of person, so Tai knew that this was what she needed. Look for example his "did you lost braincells along your arm comment", that made her laugh out loud.

Of course, the same strategy would had a completely opposite effect on Ruby.
 
I took Tai's "scathing view" of Yang as his way to make her get out of her funk and get a grip of herself. Yang was always a no-filters, brutally honest kind of person, so Tai knew that this was what she needed. Look for example his "did you lost braincells along your arm comment", that made her laugh out loud.

Of course, the same strategy would had a completely opposite effect on Ruby.
While Yang is an honest person, I would not say she has no filters, she always seemed very understanding and compassionate to me when it came to her friends. Besides this wasn't a 'funk', it was a PTSD riddled depression and to say that I found his handling of that and the writing if that was meant to be seen as good as awful would be an understatement. Seriously, everything I read on mental health basically said what Tai did was horrible and would fial miserably in RL if they considered someone would do it at all.
 
While Yang is an honest person, I would not say she has no filters, she always seemed very understanding and compassionate to me when it came to her friends. Besides this wasn't a 'funk', it was a PTSD riddled depression and to say that I found his handling of that and the writing if that was meant to be seen as good as awful would be an understatement. Seriously, everything I read on mental health basically said what Tai did was horrible and would fial miserably in RL if they considered someone would do it at all.
Well, there was a 7-8 months gap between the end of volume 3 and the beginning of volume 4, so maybe Tai let Yang time to heal during those months, and became to be more "pushing" to give her the final push to a self-recovery she already did during the time skip?
 
Well, there was a 7-8 months gap between the end of volume 3 and the beginning of volume 4, so maybe Tai let Yang time to heal during those months, and became to be more "pushing" to give her the final push to a self-recovery she already did during the time skip?
I think RT actually came out and reduced that time skip and made it more vague, though that was unclear to me. To be honest, given Yang was still experiencing nightmares and flashbacks and Tai's response to the latter is to walk away and he regarded her trauma and depression as moping (Despite his own shut down) I'm not so inclined to trust his ability to accurately gauge or help someone with their mental health. Plus I dislike the idea of skipping over 90% of Yang's recovery, but that's just me. Sorry if I seemed aggressive int he previous post, mental health is rather important to me.
 
Well, there was a 7-8 months gap between the end of volume 3 and the beginning of volume 4, so maybe Tai let Yang time to heal during those months, and became to be more "pushing" to give her the final push to a self-recovery she already did during the time skip?
Except that there might be an additional time skip since Yang mentions that they have been at this(training) for Months so unless RNJR's journey had even more time tacked onto it then the initial timeskip implied since we don't how long RNJR has been traveling post Juane getting his new armor.

Actually now that I think about it this is a pretty big plot hole since we have no idea when all of the events in Volume 4 take place relevant to one another. With Volumes 1-3 it was pretty obvious but with 4.....yeah we got some timeline problems.
 
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Except that there might be an additional time skip since Yang mentions that they have been at this(training) for Months so unless RNJR's journey had even more time tacked onto it then the initial timeskip implied since we don't how long RNJR has been traveling post Juane getting his new armor.
Maybe Tai started his training 4-5 months into the timeskip to have Yang do something else besides staying in her room? Having an activity is good to fight depression and trauma.
 
Maybe Tai started his training 4-5 months into the timeskip to have Yang do something else besides staying in her room? Having an activity is good to fight depression and trauma.
Well she wasn't completely inactive so to speak since we see her going about her day with the cleaning,collecting the mail etc. But that could be seen as going through the motions.
 
I found the Jaune stuff grating and Ruby to lack focus to a painful degree, however the Ren and Nora stuff and the flashback were all fantastic and they had some great subtle character interaction and relationship development.

I thought the flashback was good, but I didn't like the rest of their arc. It felt very much like an obligatory teammate side quest from a video game. You take five minutes, listen to them blather, then the fun put comes where you get to go out and kill the monster. It really felt like RT were just hitting a check mark in order to give Ren and Nora some back story and then immediately resolve their plot. I honestly can't think of any way that Ren and Nora's subplot can develop. They've had their romantic resolution, Ren's had his revenge... where do they grow as characters?

Personally, I really wished that they had spread Ren and Nora's arc out over two volumes, but that's a general thing I think this volume really could have benefited from; more time. Throughout the volume, all of the plot threads seemed to be racing just to reach were RT needed them for next seasion. The only ones that felt even close to complete were Yang's and Blake's. I just think it's really blatant for Ren and Nora because we see their flashback just in time to give emotional weight to the Nuckaleve scene. It's shonen storytelling, but in the worst way.
 
I thought the flashback was good, but I didn't like the rest of their arc. It felt very much like an obligatory teammate side quest from a video game. You take five minutes, listen to them blather, then the fun put comes where you get to go out and kill the monster. It really felt like RT were just hitting a check mark in order to give Ren and Nora some back story and then immediately resolve their plot. I honestly can't think of any way that Ren and Nora's subplot can develop. They've had their romantic resolution, Ren's had his revenge... where do they grow as characters?

Personally, I really wished that they had spread Ren and Nora's arc out over two volumes, but that's a general thing I think this volume really could have benefited from; more time. Throughout the volume, all of the plot threads seemed to be racing just to reach were RT needed them for next seasion. The only ones that felt even close to complete were Yang's and Blake's. I just think it's really blatant for Ren and Nora because we see their flashback just in time to give emotional weight to the Nuckaleve scene. It's shonen storytelling, but in the worst way.
While I disagree on the Blake and Yang aspects I can see where you're coming from in terms of things being rushed and feeling a bit forced in, because Ren & Nora have been around since V1 but never really gotten focus until this point and then their, or Ren's, villain was defeated. I guess it'll depend on where they go from here.
 
I took Tai's "scathing view" of Yang as his way to make her get out of her funk and get a grip of herself. Yang was always a no-filters, brutally honest kind of person, so Tai knew that this was what she needed.
Speaking as someone who's had to deal with depression...that's terrible writing, a terrible cliché, and it sends a terrible message. If Rooster Teeth don't want to write a decent healing arc, they shouldn't have written PTSD or depression, or at least shouldn't have written a terrible arc. I mean, it's not even like this is some obscure complaint; I've seen people pointing out how toxic this sort of thinking is all over the Internet, which is a place that the folks at Rooster Teeth should probably be familiar with.
 
While I disagree on the Blake and Yang aspects I can see where you're coming from in terms of things being rushed and feeling a bit forced in, because Ren & Nora have been around since V1 but never really gotten focus until this point and then their, or Ren's, villain was defeated. I guess it'll depend on where they go from here.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Yang's or Blake's plots had all the time they needed to, it's just that they felt more complete than the rest. It's like in a video game where you complete the primary objective but miss all of the secondary ones so you only know half of what's going on. RT bit off way more than they could chew. I don't think that volume 4 would've had so much lower ratings than volume 3 did if it had been paced better. Probably even divided into two volumes.

Since this has gotten obnoxiously long, I'll put the different sections in spoilers. I think it's important to mention that I like RWBY over all and will continue to watch it, but I'm keenly aware it's flawed.

RNJR
RNJR's over all plot didn't feel like anything was really accomplished. They got to Mistral, but it didn't feel that their goals as a group were meaningfully completed. If I had to compare it to more popular works, it would be like the Hobbits just arriving in Bree. Yes, they've made progress, but it's the type of spastic progress that doesn't result from the character's agency. It gets the closer to their goal, but it isn't intentional. Until Aragorn starts looking after them, there was no direction. This is how I feel RNJR's plot is. Look how fast Yang covered distance in the final episode; that could've occurred and RNJR could've been exploring Mistral. The Nuckaleve and Possession Grimm could still show up as hunts RNJR did to earn money, Qrow could still get injured, but it would be time much better spent than building up the Kingdom of Mistral than throw away wilderness. By moving straight to Mistral, RT would've started on on the mystery plot while also developing assets that they're going to use over the next two or three seasons instead of throw aways.

It also doesn't help that Pyrrha's death isn't touched on. Ruby and Jaune talk about it in passing, but we never see them sit down and have a heart to heat about it. We didn't see Ruby say or do anything about Jaune sneaking away at night to obsessively train and listen to his dead girlfriend's voice. We also didn't see Nora or Ren react to Pyrrha's death at all. For all that Pyrrha dying unlocked Ruby's Mangeyko Sharingan Silver Eyes, we don't see half of Pyrrha's team deal with her death period. I honestly wish that RT has made a strong separation between the RNJR and Nora/Ren arc. Pyrrha and Penny's deaths were major events, they should be remarked on.

Also, Ruby mostly seems to have forgotten Penny exists. There's morning for Pyrrha, but none apart for Penny.
Weiss
Weiss' plot was something that had been hinted coming for a long time (unlike her brother, apparently). Her dad had been implied to be a dick since literally volume 1. The main issue is that I feel that it falls kind of flat. Maybe it's because I work in social services, but his abuse was both more one note and less severe than I'd initially expected. If I was in charge of writing it, I wouldn't have had Jackass slap Weiss, but do something much more psychologically torturing. Instead, he should've told her exactly how much money her near murder of that party guest cost the charity. He only secured (say) 70% of the money he'd expected since the heiress attempting murder of a guest and a general having to shoot a Grimm-like creature in the middle of a party makes people much less likely to donate and others to demand their money back. This difference in funding means that approximately 50 civilians will be torn apart by Grimm or slowly starve since necessary Dust or food isn't being delivered. Add some pictures of kids, cute couples, generally sympathetic people, and nail them to Weiss' wall. Her choices killed these people and Weiss should know it. The subtle message of course, is that Weiss can't trust herself and must rely on Jacques. Then, just let her sit there and stew in her room.

By just making Jackass a straight up unimaginative control freak, you limit the actual malice and intelligence that he exhibits. When we first hear of Jacques when Blake first talks to Weiss, all that Blake has to go on are rumours. They're likely true, but Jacques is established right at the beginning to be cunning enough that he could keep all of the Schnee company's misdeeds into the realm of shadow and doubt. When we see Jacques on screen in volume four, he's brute force. There's no social skill or cunning there, everything he does is straight up demanding things of people. There's no subtlety. Jackass straight up makes himself an enemy of Ironwood and Weiss, over what? Instead of just demanding Ironwood let him sell Dust, Jacques should twist the knife, point out the Ironwood's way already failed in Vale and he's basically surrendering the rest of the world to the genocidal White Fang or the Grimm. Hammer him on running home with his tail between his legs and then giving Vale one last 'Fuck you!' when he cuts off their Schnee-granted Dust supply. The Fang sends their regards, their jobs easier now.

Shoot, how are we supposed to believe that Nicholas left his company and his daughter to this man who just screams Jackass? How did Jacques convince Nicholas to give him everything Nicholas has ever built without at least a modicum of low cunning or persuasion? I can buy Jacques being that way with his children, but with Ironwood, the guy who can apparently single handedly manage to sink his business, too?

Additionally, most abusers are just not one note control freaks, although desire for power and control over someone is central to abuse; their tactics are more complex. They mix attacks against self-esteem, dangling approval just, just out of reach, constant criticism, denying accomplishments, shaming, seizing belongings, etc. with genuine positive reinforcement to constantly keep their victims off balance. Abusers have to subtly cultivate and reinforce their abusive behaviour to their victims. The adage about slowly boiling a frog versus throwing it in an already boiling pot, is very true. Abusers often have better social skills than the people they're victimizing (mostly by either starting young, or victimizing people who are already vulnerable due to past victimization).

In some ways, I feel that Jacques explicitly hitting Weiss really weakened their narrative. There isn't enough coverage of emotional abuse and how damaging it can be. It also allows people to hide the uncomfortable comparison to themselves since emotional abuse is super common, but never thought of as a problem. A lot of emotional abusers feel pretty good about themselves, they're objective, critical, realistic, looking out for the child's best interests, the key argument they make to themselves and others is that they don't (physically) hurt their kids so they're not doing anything bad. And they'll be patted on the back by their friends.

The other side is that it continues to promote unrealistic expectations of what abusive relationships are like. Abusers can be charming. They can be funny. They can seem like genuine and nice people, pillars of the community. They can also slash the tires of your car and then throw the Sunday dinner you spent hours working on in the trash without ever tasting it because 'It's disgusting'. Abusers are bad people, but they're not always bad because they wouldn't be able to lure people in to victimize if they did that.

By stripping any nuance or complexity out of Jackass' character, you eliminate all of the conflict and struggle that Weiss could develop through. It also takes the easy way out of a complex and nuanced issue. I'm not surprised, RT hasn't really demonstrated any complexity to any of villains so far, but it continues to be disappointing.
Yang
Started pretty good. The problem arose as soon as Taiyang insulted her for being a layabout and that caused all of Yang's issues to vanish. After that point, we never see her struggle with depression, anxiety, stress, any negative emotion again. It's always Yang getting better. To be honest, that's not a surprising point given this is an American anime-type show, but it's also profoundly insulting. Imagine people who are maimed, who struggle to get over it. By making it just a matter of Yang's willpower, you're undercutting their struggle. By having that moment be the end of all of Yang's night terrors, lethargy, depression, and anxiety, you also send uncomfortable messages to the mentally ill. The narrative is implying, perhaps unintentionally, that people are only mentally ill as long as they're weak. It's a persistent cultural thought, dating back all the way to WWI and shell shock at least, but it's wrong.

People are mentally ill for a lot of reasons; some it's genetic, others because they have just generally shitty lives. PTSD, in general, it's a sickness that some proportion of the population is vulnerable to, but the other part seems to be relatively resistant. You can even predict someone's relative likelihood of developing PTSD before they are ever exposed to trauma due to factors like sleeping and dreaming schedule. People who can't dream (yes that happens) seem to get PTSD a tiny, tiny fraction of the time compared to people who dream vividly. It's just random variance of genetic factors across the population that make some people vulnerable who then develop the condition during traumatic experiences.

In general, one of the more accepted theories in abnormal psychology is that genetic factors convey a relative level of resistance to behavioural, mood, and emotional disorders. Someone with high genetic resistance requires more aggravated environmental circumstances to develop a maladaptive condition (or mental illness). Someone with low genetic resistance develops conditions with lower environmental trauma. Willpower never enters into the equation. That's just the shorthand lie, the amalgam of genetic resistance and early, positive environmental stimulation that makes people resistant to later trauma. People use it as a short hand because it's good enough and society struggles to function without it.
Blake
Blake's plot line started off fairly weak. I think it was weak in general, but it showed a definite sense of progression. I honestly think the weakest part of it was Sun. There was that one moment where Blake and Sun had a moment after he was injured, but the rest of it really annoyed me. First, it makes Sun look like a terrible person. Not only did he abandon his team around the time that Vale was attacked, but he stalked his kinda-sorta girlfriend back to her home. I know it's not intentional, but it makes him look like a terrible person in general. He's irresponsible and doesn't seem to want to respect Blake's boundaries or fulfill his own commitments. I mean, what is SSSN going to do when they arrive back in Mistral? Put all of their missions and schooling on hold?

Second, the inappropriate comedy. Blake and Sun should not be having their own little Itchy and Scratchy skit while their boat is being attacked by a giant Grimm dragon. It makes both of them look like juvenile twits when their lives and that of innocent civilians are at risk. I can't think of any other instances were RT has inserted a comedy skit in the middle of an actual fight before. Next we have Sun spy on Blake after he steals the Scroll from Iliya. Why hide at the door? He has information that he believes demonstrates an imminent threat to Blake and her family's lives. He has never hesitated about... anything, really, before. Why make Sun a constant gag character?

Third, Blake hitting Sun. It's never a good sign when a previously calm character becomes tsundere violent on her kinda-sorta boyfriend. There's a lot of unfortunate implications here, a lot of them sexist. It's even worse, however, when you compare it to Jacques striking Weiss. Not only did Blake hit Sun harder on both instances she slapped him, but she also slapped him multiple times on the second occasion. Given RT's intended message is that we treat Jacques as the ultimate evil for slapping his daughter after she nearly murdered a party guest and talked back, it makes me feel very uncomfortable when they want us to laugh at Blake hitting Sun for him doing something well-meaning and ultimately beneficial. I think something like this could be done well with Blake realizing that, holy shit, she's starting to, even in a small way, act like Adam, I don't think that's what we'll get. It'll be comedy if it comes up at all.

Lastly, reclaiming the White Fang. This is really the only thing that demonstrates evolution from Blake's character. She already had to confront her fear of the White Fang in volume 2, but most of this volume was spent with her relapsed, retreading old ground. Given RWBY has always struggled for run time, I think that having characters backslide, while ultimately realistic, is one of their greatest wastes of precious budget that are desperately needed somewhere else.

Setting that aside, I don't think the White Fang is realistically reclaimable.

Under Adam, they attempted to commit genocide. They betrayed people to the Grimm. They murdered an unknown, but likely huge amount of people. They're international terrorists on a scale that's nearly impossible to comprehend. Muslims went from a small but respected minority to being tied for 1st (with gay men) for the number of hate crimes committed against them after 9/11. Al-Queda is the enemy of basically everybody and has been hunted down and destroyed comprehensively all across the world. The attack on the Vytal Festival is easily a thousand times as serious and it was committed by an already disliked minority. It's an attack on the very symbol of peace that was established after the Colour War. Citizens from every nation have been murdered or fed to the Grimm. Vale has suffered a catastrophic blow and one of the four Huntsman Academies has fallen.

How does Blake reasonably expect that people will let her reclaim that symbol of mass murder, genocide, and treason? It would be an interesting plot if Blake was forced to come to grips with the fact that Adam's act has destroyed everything that she's worked for in her life up until joining Beacon, but I think it's unlikely that RT will do that.
Ren and Nora
I really already laid out my argument in my previous post. I think that this was resolved too quickly. It felt like RT had realized that they hadn't actually given Ren and Nora any background and decided that they needed to do that this volume. They introduced an enemy for them to fight, had it make a good showing before they realized it needed to die, and then resolved their romantic subplot. With the flashback especially, it strongly reminds me of shonen anime and manga. Naruto was notorious of adding sympathetic backstory when Naruto was halfway through beating them up. It would have been a lot more narratively satisfying if the Nuckaleve was hinted at in previous volumes.

I'm not sure what RT intends to do from here with Ren and Nora. Their subplot is completely resolved, they're together-together and they've always felt weakly connected to the main plot. Other than that one second at the end of the volume where JNR got together, we haven't seen them react at all over Pyrrha's death.
Oscar
Didn't really do anything. His segments really only established that Ozpin's not dead (sort of) and... that's it really. I understand what RT was going for with Oscar feeling like he was going insane, but it felt like they were wasting a lot of time that could be better spent. If Oscar had made his way earlier to Mistral, they could've started to build up the city and develop assets for their next season. It really doesn't change anything if he's having his identity crisis at home, or in Mistral.

As it sits, I don't really see anything that had to have been done in this season. RT could've moved Oscar to next volume in order to free up some desperately needed time and it wouldn't have changed anything. I'll reserve judgement until they develop him further, but it was a poor idea to introduce him in volume 4 when RT is trying to develop all of the plot threads I've already listed above.
 
@Redium, you summed up what I was trying to say in my post up above. RWBY has never had spectacular writing, but Volume 4 is the only season that I've been actively disappointed by. Splitting the focus so radically like they did was probably a mistake, given how poorly they handled everything. Now, I realize why they did what they did—each of the characters were discovering the answers to the questions they asked themselves in S2E10, but apart from a handful of scenes, nothing of note happened this season, especially in RNJR's section.

They haven't yet managed to offend me too much yet, but at the rate they're going, I suspect they will eventually. (Especially since they hold some moral views I don't, which will inevitably push me off the show.) I'll stick around until then. Maybe they'll pull off another Volume 3, but I'm not crossing my fingers.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Yang's or Blake's plots had all the time they needed to, it's just that they felt more complete than the rest. It's like in a video game where you complete the primary objective but miss all of the secondary ones so you only know half of what's going on. RT bit off way more than they could chew. I don't think that volume 4 would've had so much lower ratings than volume 3 did if it had been paced better. Probably even divided into two volumes.
I've seen the divide idea before, I can definitely see the appeal though am unsure if it owuld be practical in some respects. As to Blake and Yang, my reasons are as I listed earlier, I dislike how rushed Yang's arc was and how it was handled and feel Blake's parents should have been more important and disliked some other interactions in that, while also feeling it lacked real payoff.

I largely agree with you, especially on the lack of responses regarding Pyrrha and Penny, its quite frustrating, even just a dream or a nightmare would do, to show they're in people's minds.

Not working in social services I only have people I know to act as a frame of reference (Along with some personal research) and I felt he worked fairly well. The idea you suggest is a solid one, though I also feel it would, A, place more fault on Weiss for something out of her control and B, would be misunderstood by fans given Jac has so many defenders. Plus I felt the slap worked because he did it so obviously because she refuted him, and was so calm about it, this is something he's done before and will do again if given the chance.

I also felt he was fairly subtle in how he plied Weiss into singing at the concert but can see where you're coming from in regards to Ironwood. Though I am not sure I agree Blake only had rumours to go on, especially as Weiss later agreed with her and Qrow noted Jac is heavily reliant on spin doctors and the SDC's old rep to protect him.

Intriguing insights on emotional abuse and its impacts.

I agree with all of this.

I agree with some aspects but not others, I felt Blake started out strong during her initial paranoia and sadness and her interactions with her parents were great but yeah otherwise kind of a flawed arc. As to Sun though I don't feel he was out of character at all in this, but the portrayal of his actions as positives does grate on me. As to the slapping though, context matters, Jac has full power over Weiss, he is manipulative, domineering and blatantly abusive (Especially in the manga) and he slapped her for mouthing off to him, nothing more. Blake's slaps were delivered in high emotional state situations where Sun had been scaring her and invading her privacy and putting her and others in danger by playing around or breaking stuff in her house. Context matters.

Setting that aside, I don't think the White Fang is realistically reclaimable.
I'm not going to get into the RL stuff, but as to reclaiming it (Shrug) I guess we'll have to see how it goes, as matters stand we don't have a gauge for whether she has a chance at being successful or not.

My previous views are more or less maintained here, I'm glad they got some focus even if it was late in the game and I have little choice but to wait and see in regards to how or whether they'll be involved more in the future.

I did often feel Oscar's segments dragged too much to be honest, I liked his fears and there's some interesting theories suggesting that Ozpin may be a more grey character than some think, implied by the Oscar situation, but I can definitely see where you're coming from.
 
Yeah how dare they be cool with something that hurts literally no one. So immoral. They should all be sent to torture I mean conversion camps so they can be taught the error of their ways.
...Calm the fuck down. Seriously.

They never mentioned anything about conversion camps, and for you to try to demonize their opinion by throwing that shit is childish.
 
...Calm the fuck down. Seriously.

They never mentioned anything about conversion camps, and for you to try to demonize their opinion by throwing that shit is childish.
(Sarcasm mode on) Yeah how dare people be offended by an entire community already facing horrendous discrimination being disparaged as 'immoral' and 'wrong'. I mean its not like those kind of claims are used by the same people who create conversion camps or are murdering gay people or anything. (Sarcasm mode off)

Don't defend bigotry.
 
(Sarcasm mode on) Yeah how dare people be offended by an entire community already facing horrendous discrimination being disparaged as 'immoral' and 'wrong'. I mean its not like those kind of claims are used by the same people who create conversion camps or are murdering gay people or anything. (Sarcasm mode off)

Don't defend bigotry.
No one's defending anything. You're the one attacking people. Chill out.

Oh, and before you start on me? My sibling's gay. You'll get no defense of homophobia from me.
 
We should move on from this topic, as it is both toxic and off topic. I should have replied to @Renu in a PM, and I apologize for bringing it up. If anyone is curious about my beliefs and why I hold them, my PM inbox is open. (I also have a gay cousin and have known a few gay people.)
 
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