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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Pugman said:
    And yet it is the base look for the main adventure and the look used in promo material.
    Consistency.
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    On the one hand, quite true.

    On the other hand, with figures I appreciate variety. Weiss and Rubes had interesting new looks, Blake had a very basic outfit, and Yang had a small variation of her early series design. Thus the first two are easily the most appealing figures.
     
    Q99 said:
    On the one hand, quite true.

    On the other hand, with figures I appreciate variety. Weiss and Rubes had interesting new looks, Blake had a very basic outfit, and Yang had a small variation of her early series design. Thus the first two are easily the most appealing figures.
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    We can also blame Weiss herself for the outfits >.>
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Mostly because as odd as Blakes main IQ look is, at least it's not a genderswapped cosplay of her abuser, I figure.
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    I would like to say that Blake's Nightmare Outfit is a good example of the kind of compromise that have to do when writing a story, as IQ was centered around Weiss her Nightmare World gets a lot more depth and thought as it will be the main setting and we would spend most of the series exploring it and its meaning but Blake gets, as you said, a genderswapped version of Adam's outfit that works good enough for a representation of the hold that he has on her that early in the story and doesn't need a lot of exploration to be understandable, if the story was centered on Blake we would get something a lot more deep and meaningful, IMOH I think a prison theme would work well with her feeling of being trapped and guilt, while Weiss would have gotten something that quickly showed her issues in a broad way, like maybe looking like a puppet or something like that.

    Also, after Volume 9 I think that I got an idea of how Ruby's Nightmare world would be like and I think that it would be basically be a temple/museum dedicated to Summer with anything that so much points out at the existence of Ruby as a separate person being way in the background all of it just filled with steam-pipes waaaayyyy in the red in the pressure gauge and closets and alcoves just filled unresolved issues with Ruby herself being a blank mannequin wearing Summer's clothes.
     
    ShadowEMT said:
    Also, after Volume 9 I think that I got an idea of how Ruby's Nightmare world would be like and I think that it would be basically be a temple/museum dedicated to Summer with anything that so much points out at the existence of Ruby as a separate person being way in the background all of it just filled with steam-pipes waaaayyyy in the red in the pressure gauge and closets and alcoves just filled unresolved issues with Ruby herself being a blank mannequin wearing Summer's clothes.
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    Alright, so what does Yang's Nightmare World look like?
     
    GuestLurker said:
    Alright, so what does Yang's Nightmare World look like?
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    Yang is complicated because she has a lot of issuers but she has a solid grasp on all of them and isn't particularity affected by them, at least until the Fall of Beacon where she is severely traumatized and she losses her grip on her issues. I could see her Nightmare World being a Zoo where all her issues have their own enclosure and the Fall of Beacon wrecked the building an let all her issues out, with Yang herself being reduced to a ghost of her former self with only her missing arm being left, that arm is The Grimm itself, a representation of what she lost and an anchor that keeps her from moving on, at the beginning it would look like the secret to freeing Yang is to get all her issues back to their enclosures but it is basically impossible as only Yang herself can do that and instead they will need to remove the Grimm arm and give her a new arm made by them and then help Yang wrangle her own issues with some being easy with their help but some other, like Yang's abandonment issues, being basically immune to team RWB_ actions and only affected by Yang.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Becoming a copy of the monster you're trying to escape from and having no pants are both common nightmares.
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    Adam is a narcissistic, his ideal girlfriend is a female version of himself, specially if she were sexy in a feminine way that compliments his manly man image and Blake has to realize that especially when you realize that Blake's Volume 1-3 outfit is a lot more similar to Adam's that any of the subsequent ones.
     
    Questionable as it is, especially the booty shorts, it makes sense when you remember;
    1 - Blake fears Adam
    2 - Blake fears being like Adam
    3 - It's Japan
     
    Yea the shorts are questionable. The Adam Mask? Very much what I'd think Blake would think an evil version of herself would look like, because I can very much see her fear her becoming like him.
     
    Q99 said:
    Pop Up Parade made some nice figures of team RWBY in Ice Queendom, and they went with this:
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    Honestly I'm just glad its not their Beacon forms again, but I do get the vexation, as while I definitely understand why people are uncomfortable with Nega-Blake, her wielding giant crimson blades and such was pretty nifty.

    I actually rather like Yang's design, but I tend to find Yang's more normal mode wear a nice contrast to the extra-ness of her team XD

    Matrix Dragon said:
    Pretty sure we all had that discussion at the time, and all went 'ewwwww'
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    There's a lot of subtle body language coding regarding abuse & assault in how Adam fights, conducts himself & how Blake responds, much dread.
     
    Zam said:
    Honestly I'm just glad its not their Beacon forms again, but I do get the vexation, as while I definitely understand why people are uncomfortable with Nega-Blake, her wielding giant crimson blades and such was pretty nifty.

    I actually rather like Yang's design, but I tend to find Yang's more normal mode wear a nice contrast to the extra-ness of her team XD
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    Yang's figure is nice as an alternate early-series design, but I really hope they get around to giving her one with her arm sooner or later.

    Hopefully Viz being in charge will increase the variety.
     
    I did up some hypotheticals, and you're response to them was:

    Zam said:
    I am ignoring your alternate outlines because I neither think much of them and also don't think random hypotheticals are worthwhile for this kind of discussion.
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    You then bring up how things could have hypothetically played out if Jaune hadn't gotten the upgraded armor:

    Zam said:
    If RWNJR hadn't stopped in the town, Jaune wouldn't have new gear and might have died against the Nuckaleave or been slaughtered by Tyrian; they might not have arrived at the town on time anyway because they may have encountered the Geist regardless or run across a pack of Grimm that wouldn't have otherwise been in the area when they passed through it a few hours later.
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    You're dismissing my hypotheticals, and bring up your own. As stated before: please make up your mind and confirm if hypotheticals are acceptable for discussing. The impression right now, is that if the hypotheticals are something you don't like, they're bad. If it's one that supports your views, it's good. Again, please confirm how you want to handle this, so we can engage on equal terms.

    The problem with your use of Castlevania is that once I pointed out that they had basic defenses and safeguards that RWBY could have reasonably had, you immediately turned around and declared that it was more nonsensical than RWBY.

    Zam said:
    Um no if anything this makes Lindenfield the nonsensical one because they should not be used to creatures from hell fucking up their lives or inhabiting their forests and so should logically be worse off not better or just the same as a town on Remnant.
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    Yeah, the attack by Dracula is unprecedented, but they have to deal with bandits, wild animals, and the occasional lone night creature (I could be wrong about this last one, think they said something about them happening without a dedicated Forge Master, but not sure) and they took some basic, reasonable steps to mitigate these threats. Were they enough to stop the attacks? No, but it did allow them to mount a decent defense against them.

    As for your explanation of criticism:
    -It says that pointing out the negatives isn't the only part of a critique, not that pointing out the negative is bad.
    -The two points you concluded with were Questioning assumptions, and Providing a balanced assessment. I haven't seen you question your assumptions, and in fact refused to even speak about RWBY's flaws when invited to.

    Overall, the impression I get is that you don't want to engage. Absolutely correct me if I'm wrong about this, but a discussion is a give and take.



    PrismatiChampion :

    I don;t know much about contract work either, though my limited understanding is that you are expected to deliver X for Y amount of money. Having a contractor add/alter an animation scene might not cost RT any extra money, but it would definitely require more time, which is hard to come by when you've got a scheduled release.

    I'd have to check/crossreference the credits to see if people were being added/removed, but if they were contractors, I wouldn't be surprised. If that is the case... well, writers have to learn to work with that situation. I don't know enough about it to say how it should have been handled, or even who would have handled it, but if this was a normal thing, RT would need to recognize the potential pitfalls.

    And being contractors could have acted as a soft barrier to communicating with the writers. After all, you don't want to push back and be seen as a problem, you might not get a renewal offer.



    I still disagree that they would have advanced weaponry, since the Mayor was talking about how they might have to move if the Gheist stuck around, and followed up by saying people would die if they were to journey to Haven. That implies that they have limited options, or that what they do have would be insufficient. Could also be because they lost the Tower, and couldn't call for Hunter support when something beyond their limits showed up.

    (Random thought: It would have been a really cool scene if the Gheist could possessed heavy weapons positions as well as natural materials, could have made an awesome season finale!)

    Might be a difference of opinion (or I could be wrong) but I don't consider Hunter tier gear to be advanced, mainly because the majority of people have some form of transforming weapon. Also possible that there was a raw material issue, since the blacksmith mentioned Jaune gave him some high quality material to work with. Villages in the middle of nowhere can't rely on the logistics to get them what they need, especially if there are monster attacks.


    Love the crack theory, though not sure how well that would have worked story wise. Having the villain actually being the hero all along is tough to pull off. Having it as an elaborate suicide attempt before having the Gods be the final villain though...
     
    In lighter news, I am loving this persons reactions:

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/peridotite/757217929351806976/watching-volume-6-bees-scenes-and-having-a-normal


    Zerohour said:
    I did up some hypotheticals, and you're response to them was:

    You then bring up how things could have hypothetically played out if Jaune hadn't gotten the upgraded armor:

    You're dismissing my hypotheticals, and bring up your own. As stated before: please make up your mind and confirm if hypotheticals are acceptable for discussing. The impression right now, is that if the hypotheticals are something you don't like, they're bad. If it's one that supports your views, it's good. Again, please confirm how you want to handle this, so we can engage on equal terms.
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    Right, I see the confusion.

    In your post you, very much out of nowhere, orchestrated extremely elaborate and detailed alternate storylines, many of which centered on a nameless Huntsmen for some reason.

    My thing was only written in response to your claims that them stopping to help the town with the Gheist directly led to a town getting wiped out, I was engaging in what is known as exaggerated hyperbole to demonstrate how unreasonable your stance was by outlining how things would look if I engaged in similar leaps of logic. IE, "Jaune might have died" ETC, I was not seriously trying to engage with the concept of outlining an alternate seasons, I was aiming to demonstrate the issue with your approach to this discussion.

    Zerohour said:
    The problem with your use of Castlevania is that once I pointed out that they had basic defenses and safeguards that RWBY could have reasonably had, you immediately turned around and declared that it was more nonsensical than RWBY.

    Yeah, the attack by Dracula is unprecedented, but they have to deal with bandits, wild animals, and the occasional lone night creature (I could be wrong about this last one, think they said something about them happening without a dedicated Forge Master, but not sure) and they took some basic, reasonable steps to mitigate these threats. Were they enough to stop the attacks? No, but it did allow them to mount a decent defense against them.
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    I feel you have rather ignored my actual point in favor of attacking arguments I was not making, or as you have been called out on numerous times before, ignoring RWBY's actual world building in order to call the writing bad, so let's try again:

    1: Lindenfield having tons of ingrained defenses is weird cos creatures from hell are not usually fucking up their lives; bandits don't generally attack towns, wild animals are not something one builds extremely high walls to stop in the middle of a trade route & apple growing territory, and Night Creatures are fairly superhuman and not liable to be stopped by wooden walls anyway.

    2: Meanwhile, the town in RWBY not having walls makes sense because even the shittiest of shit Grimm is not going to be impeded by a wooden or even stone wall given even a basic Beowolf can smash up boulders and tear through cement walls. Walls would do nothing to obstruct the Grimm, which are also very much just part of life when living outside the kingdoms, it was the Gheist specifically that was the problem. Beyond that we don't know if they had any defenses like gatling guns, which are shown as examples of village defenses in World of Remnant, but that is because it was not relevant to the story and so not worth wasting time and money on.

    3: &, as previously outlined, Lindenfield is the main setting for Season 3, it had time and reason to focus on this stuff, which RWBY didn't for what was a minor stop off point to just get us brought up to speed with the characters. Again you aren't actually proving anything here, save that you seemingly struggle to distinguish between a major setting location and a minor setting location in a story.

    Zerohour said:
    As for your explanation of criticism:
    -It says that pointing out the negatives isn't the only part of a critique, not that pointing out the negative is bad.
    -The two points you concluded with were Questioning assumptions, and Providing a balanced assessment. I haven't seen you question your assumptions, and in fact refused to even speak about RWBY's flaws when invited to.

    Overall, the impression I get is that you don't want to engage. Absolutely correct me if I'm wrong about this, but a discussion is a give and take.
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    1: That's not really relevant given all you do is point out what you perceive to be negatives.
    2: I'm not the one claiming to be here for critical discourse or review, you are. I'm refusing to engage with it with you because thus far, nothing about how you respond to other people's points gives me much reason to expect a good faith discussion. What's more, you could literally scroll like two posts up you'd see me noting I found Nega Blake's design uncomfortable at best; so your accusation hold no water.

    I'm willing to engage with RWBY in a critical manner, I am fine calling out issues, what I am not fine with is someone coming into the thread, declaring the show factually bad, making spurious claims about why, then demanding I provide them negativity. You don't get to dictate how I discuss things.

    Also, I am also not dictating to you, I explained why its hard to take your claims seriously and you have consistently ignored me, claimed I was the one doing the thing I highlighted you as doing, or doubled down.
     
    I finally watched the RWBY Beyond shorts (and a compliation of the Vacuo portions of the second JL Crossover) a couple days ago, and I really like them; especially the story of Somewhat. The discussion here reminds me I also need to rewatch and finish Ice Queendom... at some point at, least. (Next weekend's gonna be busy and the week or two after will depend on how that turns out.) Was watching it with a friend as the episodes were releasing, but personal stuff got in the way so I fell off around episode 4 or 5ish. All this talk of a Nega Blake sounds intriguing.

    Really glad Viz got the rights so I can finally join the #GreenlightVolume10 bandwagon, something I didn't feel comfortable with supporting during the prior status quo. Hope CRWBY can migrate over without too many problems.
     
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    Reading a really good fanfic called Two Minutes Silence, and I had a sudden interesting realization. Having been in and out of the fandom since the Volume 1 to Volume 2 hiatus, I remember seeing a few stories on fanfiction.net back then with the premise of "Future grizzled versions of Team RWBY (or in one case some fankids) come back to Beacon to avert a dark future." It wasn't as frequent a premise as it seems to be now, of course, but it was definitely still A Thing. The irony being that since we still knew nothing other than "Cinder is up to... something" and had only the vaguest idea that the narrator lady had some bad vibes, those fics could only be incredibly vague about what went wrong, or else make stuff up. We had an idea Ozpin knew more than he said, and that there was some sort of bigger stakes, but no inkling of what that entailed. And it's almost always from the perspective of the Beacon-era kids meeting their future selves.

    And now, there are fanfics that line up pretty similarly in some ways, but at the same time the framing is completely reversed. The perspective is from the future versions, and we know exactly what that dark future is, because holy shit canon has gone so much worse for the characters than even the wildest of guesses back in the day could have predicted. Hell, I vaguely remember one story that had a traumatized Jaune coming back from something terrible happening in Atlas, that I am pretty confident if I tracked it down again now, wouldn't come even near matching just how beyond terrible everything that went down in Volume 8 was.

    And it's just, a really funny perspective reversal to me. Back then, the fandom was idly entertaining the thought of some sort of grim alternate future, and now we're fantasizing about going back to fix the very-not-alternate past. Time, both in-universe and out of it, is weird.
     
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    Well in my experience it's normal to think of dark "What If's".
    Stories of lone survivors, older versions with an eye-patch and/or missing a limb.
    I think it's kind of a natural process, a way to purge dark thoughts and worries from one's own mind.
     
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