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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Pugman said:
    She has a Partner

    Long Time Coming



    Let's take that a step further, even though this step will sound dumb.
    What if Salem is planning on putting herself into Cinder's body, like how All For One has put himself into Shigaraki in an attempt to take over the young man's body?
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    I am intrigued by their Weiss insights and very hopeful.

    Also that is an interesting idea, but it does beg the question of what Salem gets out of such an arrangement.
     
    Pugman said:
    *shrugs*
    A piece of Ozma (the Maiden Magic) part of her now? A loophole out of the curse?
    Meh.
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    Zam said:
    Also that is an interesting idea, but it does beg the question of what Salem gets out of such an arrangement.
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    The loophole idea is good, though if she's full on intent on blowing up the entire world, then perhaps turning Cinder into a host could be a contingency for a faster revival or to be in two places at once?
     
    if it is just because of "cool fight scenes" then the people who liked the trailers but not the show for that reason are incredibly shallow.
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    Literally the first trailer, the one that has earned itself 16 million views and is one of the few RWBY videos on their channel because of their decisions to remove RWBY from the face of YouTube, is a combat sizzle reel where Monty Oum got to flex his animation skills.

    I don't know if anyone's told you this, but a trailer's base definition is to advertise what the show's about. And considering we don't even get a basic plot until the Black Trailer (the White Trailer had to retroactively add that Weiss' fight against the knight was an in-universe test to prove she can go to Beacon), no shit it's gonna be advertising the "cool fight scenes".
     
    The trailers and the show were made as a vessel for Montys fight scenes, that's what the entire show was about. Everything else was there to give more fights. To shame people for...... Coming to RWBY for the thing that Monty was known for is..... Certainly a Choice....

    To then call those people "shallow" or them "projecting" is extremely rude and inaccurate. That is what the show, what Monty was about.
     
    Literally the entire purpose of the original color trailers was just so Monty could show off the main designs of the girls and have them commit cool anime violence to get eyes on the show. There's nothing else to get out of the trailers outside of "Oh, Ruby's mom is dead, that sucks," and over-analysing the vocal tracks.

    It's also just really dismissive and insulting to say "Oh you have to find some deep meaning in these sizzle reels or you're not a real fan, you're just shallow!" What a pointlessly snide and bitter way to remark on the original fanbase of the show who were largely born from being pre-existing fans of Monty's work, and that fanbase largely was just satisfied with getting cool action sequences. Not to mention that said fanbase are pretty much the only reason RWBY did well enough to get to Volume 2 in the first place.
     
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    ArtFartCop said:
    There's nothing else to get out of the trailers outside of "Oh, Ruby's mom is dead, that sucks,"
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    I mean visual story telling is a thing, Yangs trailer showed she was looking for someone(Her Mom apparently though I think it was meant to be someone else intially) and likes to fight plus it gave us a hint of what Ruby's actual personality was instead of the apparent Stoic bad ass that the fandom thought she was based on her trailer. Blakes trailer admittedly does rely more on the lyrics to help explain the action scenes since we only get a few pieces of spoken dialouge from both her and Adam and it's more or less about how Adam was more then willing to kill everyone on the train and Blake didn't want to.
     
    Dextixer said:
    The trailers and the show were made as a vessel for Montys fight scenes, that's what the entire show was about.
    Everything else was there to give more fights    .

    To then call those people "shallow" or them "projecting" is extremely rude and inaccurate. That is what the show, what Monty was about.
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    I dont really have a dog in...whatever this is but I kind of want to engage with the specific bits I've highlighted, because I think it maybe goes way too hard in the other direction. I know being able to create fantastical fight scenes was something Monty loved doing, but it was also something he routinely did all the time, both in other shows and also via fan animations. If that's literlly all he wanted, he could have just made the anime oc equivalent of death battles for RT, and probably have created more fights then RWBY gave him a chance too due to not being bogged down scriptwriting, directing VAs, animating the vast majority of the show that wasn't fight scene related when he was around, ect.

    Pretty much all accounts I've heard of the shows creation from him or other sources seem to point to the idea that he was invested in the sort of world and characters and stories they wrote, regardless if you think that resulted in any sort of quality. I was also under the impression that while monty's auteur style celebrity in web animation circles was a big draw of the show, Miles and Kerry at the very least were pretty involved with the creation of it, and presumably had some level of emotional investment in the stuff they wrote beyond it being a vehicle for animation skills they didn't have.

    Obviously Monty enjoyed working on fight scenes and was kind of genius when it came to making them, but things can get made for multiple reasons. I doubt thats literally all anyone in the writing room cared about, or that they saw people who liked the show for the characters or the world or story or whathaveyou as in it for the 'wrong' reasons, yknow.
     
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    Yeah the show is as much M&K's baby as it is Monty's. He was the first to admit he wasn't great at writing a story so he needed their help to create the larger story around his awesome fight choreography.
     
    LordDarthYoda said:
    Yeah the show is as much M&K's baby as it is Monty's. He was the first to admit he wasn't great at writing a story so he needed their help to create the larger story around his awesome fight choreography.
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    Which is why I always find it hilarious/head-desk worthy when I see people ****ing about how RWBY is ruined forever etc etc due to M&K being the ones doing the story as opposed to Monty.
     
    jwolfe_beta said:
    Which is why I always find it hilarious/head-desk worthy when I see people ****ing about how RWBY is ruined forever etc etc due to M&K being the ones doing the story as opposed to Monty.
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    At this point, I put that with 'James/Adam were retconned into being evil' and 'Bees was started in V6 because queerbaiting sells'. BS claims from people deliberately misinterpreting the show at best, ignoring what's on screen at worst.
     
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    Matrix Dragon said:
    'Bees was started in V6 because queerbaiting sells'
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    Yang started flirting with her in Volume 2, it's possible only reason she didn't go for more was Blake was kind of dating Sun at the time, but their relationship settled on platonic because they spent enough time with each other to realize that romance wasn't quite what they needed from the other and they managed to work through their issues from Volume 3 and before meeting each other enough to be looking at the possibility but not quite willing to be the first to say it. I get the feeling the Everafter is going to be getting them to say what they want to say at some point.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Bees was started in V6
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    GuestLurker said:
    Yang started flirting with her in Volume 2, it's possible only reason she didn't go for more was Blake was kind of dating Sun at the time, but their relationship settled on platonic because they spent enough time with each other to realize that romance wasn't quite what they needed from the other and they managed to work through their issues from Volume 3 and before meeting each other enough to be looking at the possibility but not quite willing to be the first to say it. I get the feeling the Everafter is going to be getting them to say what they want to say at some point.
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    Adding to this, they didn't really have time to actually start romancing each other because after the dance, they had to go on a trip to Mountain Glenn, then the tournament arc happened, then the Fall happened, then after being separated for a bit they barely had time to be together before Ozpin was like "time to dump the Relic in Atlas because the Spring Maiden ditched her duties and we don't know who she is (hint hint)".

    So, no shit people are saying "Bees was started in V6" because they barely had a chance to actually get anything started beyond sparks and whatever sparks were happening were overpowered by, you guessed it, Sun.
     
    Monty wanted something more than just fight scenes. He wanted to tell a story that was in his head.
    To do that he got help from his friends.
    Those who claim RWBY is nothing without it's fights, that it only is around so Monty could show off his skills in making fight scenes, are shallow folks who show that they do not understand the show Monty was trying to make.
    Even in the trailers there was more being shown than just Monty's skills.
    The quote that started each trailer, the lyrics of each song, even the weapons. There is more to each than what you get at first glance.
    There are layers to this show, always have been, because it was designed that way by Monty and the others.

    And RWBY keeps surviving. "It's dead without Monty", has carried on and currently approaches the start of it's 6th volume without him. "The crew don't know what they are doing." have managed to keep it going despite everything that keeps popping up. "This is the end of RWBY" has been said for years, and yet the show is still around and each volume shows it is more than it's fight scenes.
     
    People saying Bees wasn't Monty's idea at least partially has always been absurd, the flirting was there arguably from the beginning, definitely from Volume 2. Also Monty made freaking Haloid, and considering how that ended, it's pretty clear he would not be against LGBT content.
     
    Monty Oum outright said he sought out Miles & Kerry to work with him on developing the world and story, he very explicitly wanted a story, it was never just about the fight scenes and pretending otherwise is disingenuous and disrespectful to say the least.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Let's be honest, that's up for debate, in and out of universe. Weiss and Ruby probably legit discussed it at least a few times.
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    Should probably add a few asterisks to that.
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Should have commented on this earlier. Their first scene was blatant Yang Gay Disaster Flirting.
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    Easy to think it's something else because Yang was commenting on the male eye candy just before that. I'd say it's probably more Disaster Bi Flirting.
     
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