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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • excalibur2008 said:
    Cap made a plan based on having a way to evacuate people on hand, Ruby made a plan that required hoping people can show up faster than travel time was show to allow and then used a magic wand to fix her problems that apparently required said magic item breaking the rules that governed it.



    She called for help waited for that to come, it didn't, as such she sat out the resulting war that was only won because Ozpin was siting on a WMD the whole frickin time and didn't tell anyone, and then used the Staff like a Magic Wand to make her problems go away while the genie in charge will totally break the rules governing him when they inconvenienced Ruby.

    Which is becoming an annoying habit with Ruby about how she only gets out of tight spots because the show hands her a sudden out. First it was Silver Eyes activating, then it was Jinn being willing to let het get away one time without asking a question, then it was Ozpin's cane, and then it Ambrosius breaking the rules to save Penny.
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    I see you've progressed to just outright ignoring reality with with "Magical artifact breaks it's own rules when they inconvenience Ruby"
     
    excalibur2008 said:
    Cap made a plan based on having a way to evacuate people on hand, Ruby made a plan that required hoping people can show up faster than travel time was show to allow and then used a magic wand to fix her problems that apparently required said magic item breaking the rules that governed it.

    She called for help waited for that to come, it didn't, as such she sat out the resulting war that was only won because Ozpin was siting on a WMD the whole frickin time and didn't tell anyone, and then used the Staff like a Magic Wand to make her problems go away while the genie in charge will totally break the rules governing him when they inconvenienced Ruby.

    Which is becoming an annoying habit with Ruby about how she only gets out of tight spots because the show hands her a sudden out. First it was Silver Eyes activating, then it was Jinn being willing to let het get away one time without asking a question, then it was Ozpin's cane, and then it Ambrosius breaking the rules to save Penny.
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    Psyga315 said:
    I should bring up that whole "oh, but Nora was dying and they had to wait on her", but even May called them out on it and insisted they choose whether to help Mantle or focus on saving Atlas.
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    RWB had an injured friend, were conflicted on what to do next, and still had warrants out for their arrest. They were lost with no idea what to do next. They are still just teens after all stuck in a very shitty situation.
    Ruby didn't get Ambro to break any rules, they found loopholes like the clever protags they are.
    There is nothing wrong with the Spirits being fond enough our heroes who are clearly good people. Plus it's not like Ruby had a question for Jhin back at Argus.
    And May's comments had nothing to do with Nora and was all about Mantle VS Atlas in the sense of "us or them". And in the end RWBY is not an "Us or Them" story. Never has been and never will be.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    "More people dying= The harder choice"
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    The interesting thing is you 'can' make a dramatic series where this is the case.

    Its just that for the character making that decision you need to have long since established them as someone who tries to save everyone, who is selfless and genuinely cares but has been forced with their back against the wall and has to make a decision that tears them apart.

    That's not Ironwood.

    Cos Ironwood withdrew all his support from his allies, even when he outright suspected thy were going to be attacked. Ironwood oppressed Mantle and didn't even bother updating its code, let alone its security. Ironwood dismissed Mantle as a few city blocks and straight up had to be told he was minimizing their suffering by Nora and still showed no actual empathy.

    His default stance was to shrug off the lives of the people in Mantle, so when he makes that decision, not only was his back not remotely against the wall, but even if it had been, he still wouldn't be able to sell this as a hard decision, because leaving anyone outside Atlas behind is what he 'always' does.
     
    Ruby and co evacuated civilians from high risk areas to buy time, sent out a call for help, and most importantly of all, were able to adjust to changes in the situation. When Ironwood decided to actively kill civilians instead of just abandoning them to horrible deaths, they took advantage of all available resources to remove him as an active threat AND evacuate both cities.

    Ironwood never deviated from his original plan, even when it became unworkable due to broken shields and whale carcass.

    Ruby and co made the hard choices. Ironwood made his decision and blindly stuck with it.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Ruby and co evacuated civilians from high risk areas to buy time
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    No The Happy Huntresses did with Jaune, Ren, Yang, and Oscar helping some as part of breaking off from Ruby, while Ruby wanted to take all her friends and focus on Amity.

    And you can't give her much credit for trying to use the SDC ships becuase that was Whitley's idea and he did all the work for that one.
     
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    excalibur2008 said:

    Reddit - Dive into anything

    www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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    I don't think you grasp what 'cheat' means in this context.

    No universal rules were broken.

    Ruby called Jinn in a desperate bid to buy time and the normal stuff happened, Jinn was impressed by how clever that was and so despite Ruby not having a question helped out. Jinn's a sentient entity who has agency, that's just how it be.

    Ruby didn't have Ambro break his rules, she asked him to separate Penny's soul from her body by taking all the mechanical aspects of her as materials and hoped that Penny would be able to stick around as a spiritual entity. Even Ambro admitted he had no idea what would happen.

    Matrix Dragon said:
    They'll hit me again, and so be it.
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    They'll hit all of us, plus it would suck if you got banned from the thread over the words of someone you could just block.
     
    Zam said:
    don't think you grasp what 'cheat' means in this context.

    No universal rules were broken.

    Ruby called Jinn in a desperate bid to buy time and the normal stuff happened, Jinn was impressed by how clever that was and so despite Ruby not having a question helped out. Jinn's a sentient entity who has agency, that's just how it be.

    Ruby didn't have Ambro break his rules, she asked him to separate Penny's soul from her body by taking all the mechanical aspects of her as materials and hoped that Penny would be able to stick around as a spiritual entity. Even Ambro admitted he had no idea what would happen.
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    It got a magic item that can only make one thing at the time to give Penny a flesh and blood body that didn't disappear the moment they made the portal network.
     
    excalibur2008 said:

    Reddit - Dive into anything

    www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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    There's also this.
    They hadn't settled 100% on whether every relic was going to have [inaudible, presumably person] but they're glad they did.

    Eddy says: "Well then also try to really iron the rules of this one. I remember we were trying to do that early in the outlining process even thought we didn't exactly know how we were going to use the staff by the end of the volume, which made things kind of tricky, you know once we got here and it's like 'well we put all of our characters in this impossible problem, so.. now how do they get out?'".

    Kerry says: "You know we.. it's always the specifics, right? We knew the whole time that like 'okay, this is what the staff does, but, what are the specific rules?' and yeah, making sure that wasn't gonna break anything was a big deal."
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    Basically, up until they drafted up the episode in question, they didn't really know how the Staff would be used, just that it would need specific rules and ensure that the rules in question don't break anything.
     
    excalibur2008 said:
    It got a magic item that can only make one thing at the time to give Penny a flesh and blood body that didn't disappear the moment they made the portal network.
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    Because they didn't ask for him to make her a flesh and blood body.
    They asked to make a new mechanical body with all the same machine parts, and in doing so that left the Soul that is Penny Polendina with nowhere to go.
    So technically all he did on paper was the Virus Penny that did in fact disintegrate when they made the portals.
     
    Pugman said:
    Because they didn't ask for him to make her a flesh and blood body.
    They asked to make a new mechanical body with all the same machine parts, and in doing so that left the Soul that is Penny Polendina with nowhere to go.
    So technically all he did on paper was the Virus Penny that did in fact disintegrate when they made the portals.
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    But that doesn't make any sense. How does her soul get a flesh and blood body? Why does her soul have the winter maiden powers?
     
    Sandstar said:
    But that doesn't make any sense. How does her soul get a flesh and blood body? Why does her soul have the winter maiden powers?
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    The Winter Maiden Powers become part of a person's soul. It's why they can't be removed without killing a person. Winter flat out says the pervious Winter Maiden is a part of them now. And the Staff of Creation's whole thing is it can't create something by killing someone. Like it could create fire but it didn't directly light Watts on fire. It can build you a gun but it can't have it already firing basically. So basically it had to build a new Penny using Penny's parts without killing Penny. So basically it ripped away her body but left her soul intact.

    Psyga315 said:
    There's also this.

    Basically, up until they drafted up the episode in question, they didn't really know how the Staff would be used, just that it would need specific rules and ensure that the rules in question don't break anything.
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    ...That isn't how I read it. It sounds like they didn't have a direct idea of how the Staff was going to work at the beginning of work for the Volume. And like, it worked so whatever. I don't see the problem.
     
    Pugman said:
    1 - It's Magic. *insert meme here*

    2 - The Winter Maiden powers were currently tied to her soul, and as she was not technically dead and she Disney'd a new body the powers stayed with her.
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    Nah, sorry. Saying "It's magic" doesn't cut it.

    Teen Spirit said:
    The Winter Maiden Powers become part of a person's soul. It's why they can't be removed without killing a person. Winter flat out says the pervious Winter Maiden is a part of them now. And the Staff of Creation's whole thing is it can't create something by killing someone. Like it could create fire but it didn't directly light Watts on fire. It can build you a gun but it can't have it already firing basically. So basically it had to build a new Penny using Penny's parts without killing Penny. So basically it ripped away her body but left her soul intact.
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    Like that time Cinder didn't almost suck the Fall Maiden's powers out of Amber without killing her?
     
    Zam said:
    ... I explicitly spelled out for you how Ambro very explicitly didn't do that. He took out all of Penny's mechanical parts, he didn't make a flesh and blood body.
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    Actually that does raise the interesting point that Ambro could create another soul person . Just ask him to build a meat puppet out of a person's body and it should work. I don't know why one would admittedly but in theory it should be possible.
    Sandstar said:
    Like that time Cinder didn't almost suck the Fall Maiden's powers out of Amber without killing her?
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    A: She didn't finish. B: It left her dying, every implication is that Cinder successfully removing all of the power would have killed Amber and as it was Amber was basically on life support while they tried to find a new Maiden candidate.
     
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