RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[newgman]

Happy Birthday Blake!

Also, as a small change of subject, anyone wonder what would have happened had the Breach not occurred (and by that I mean something like Team RWBY stopping it before it reached the city)?

Me personally, I tend to be of the mindset of one of two possibilities:

The first is it'd just mean Ozpin stays in charge of Festival security and everything else stays the same, so the Fall of Beacon happens as it did in canon without any notable differences.

The second is that Ironwood be forced to send his armies back by the council when they learn of the stolen Atlesian paladins the White Fang had. So Cinder and co. can't hack the Atlesian Knights and use them for the Fall of Beacon, but the invading Grimm and White Fang would be enough for a decent fallout.

Click to shrink...

I personally would assume something along the lines of the second one. Most of the reason for the council's positive opinion for Ironwood were derived from both Ozpin's failure and the fact Ironwood's forces demonstrated how helpful they could be by defending against the breach. Without that, they'd probably have a more negative outlook to begin with just from having a foreign nation's army floating above their heads.

And a terrorist cell getting their hands on the cutting edge military tech that the good general wanted to show off is not a good look. Because, in that case, there's two real options for them.

1. For all his well meaning attitude, his forces are corrupt enough that they sold some of the tech to said terrorists.
2. He gave the tech to the White Fang himself.

While option 2 probably wouldn't be brought up, it'd undoubtedly be on people's minds. And, quite frankly, option 1 would be plenty of reason in my mind to force them out. I mean, any corrupt forces able to smuggle the paladins would also be able to smuggle the knights too and having them sitting there would make it so much easier for said smuggling to happen.

 

[Tython82]

And a terrorist cell getting their hands on the cutting edge military tech that the good general wanted to show off is not a good look. Because, in that case, there's two real options for them.

Click to shrink...

This is something that I am surprised doesn't get more attention because as Winter pointed out the stolen Paladins were prototypes and usually those are kept in secure testing locations so if any of them were stolen during transport you would think that the military would have been frantically searching for them and such an incident would have been used by Ozpin to point out that Ironwood might not be the best person to be in charge of security at the festival.

 

[SirSpangler]

It's a good thing a scene where Jacques tries to confront Weiss while she's in the custody of Atlas military didn't happen in RWB-

... oh.

Click to shrink...

Man its a good thing team RWBY can tell the fucking future isn't it?

...Oh wait

Actually hold a moment, you might be on to something Psyga315. Lets take a second and consider what RWBY actually did know when they decided to steal the airship.

-Atlas had locked down everything and withdrawn from the rest of Remnant, with Argus being the sole exception.
-No communications with Atlas proper
-The only Atlesian contact they did have (Cordovin) had made it clear only Weiss would be granted passage explicitly to bring her to her family.
-At no point was meeting or even speaking to Ironwood ever brought up by Cordovin, and the group couldn't exactly announce relic and its importance.
-Which means Weiss would be going to atlas, likely straight to Jacques where he'd isolate her (again), making it rather difficult to meet with Ironwood.
-Oh, and lets not forget that she'd be carrying the relic, one of the single most important objects in the war against Salem, and one that happens to attract Grimm, while completely alone, with only a small escort (presumably a single gunship) (This is actually confirmed when Weiss pretends to accept Cordovin's offer. She sends Weiss along with all of two guards.

Sending Weiss ahead relies in a whole lot of assumptions of a whole lot of things going right based on literally zero information.

---

And team RWBY plan to steal the airship also was not a plan with a 100 percent possible success rate. All plans can fail, all plans can not work. That is not an argument against plans, many plans are made to be as risk-free as possible. Sending Weiss is a risk, yes, thing can go wrong, yes. But there are many more things that can go wrong with trying to steal a military transport, not only with stealing it, but as we saw in V7 also using it to land.

This is why i was a bit annoyed with all of these "This x reason is why sending Weiss alone plan could possibly fail", yes, i know. The same can be said for the plan to steal the airship. There are multiple points of failure that could have happened. And in the opinion of me and many others there are more points of failure and more risk with that plan than sending Weiss ahead (Which could also be done with Qrow accompanying her in his Crow form).

Click to shrink...

You know, you say this, but what points of failure were there exactly? Weiss accepts Cordovin's offer, waits until the airship is out of comms range to prevent alarm reaching the base, and hijacks the airship. At the same time, Blake disables the radar tower. Weiss and Maria can pick up the others waiting outside the city and go on their way with Cordovin none the wiser. By the time Cordovin realizes what's happened they're long gone, and will reach Atlas long before any message Cordovin send does.

All in all, that's actually a fairly simple and yes, safe plan. Really, I can only think of two potential points of failure. If Cordovin randomly insists on checking Weiss's luggage (extremely unlikely given how preferential she was already treating Weiss), and Blake somehow failing to disable the radar (which of note, she already has experience with).

Hell, I think the strongest refutation of your claim is that if it weren't for Adam, RWBY's plan not only would have worked, it would have gone of without a hitch.

But, yes, you're right, there is in fact some risk. Imo extremely minor risk, but there definitely is some.

However, compared to sending Weiss alone?

Even completely disregarding what could happen once reaches Atlas, are you seriously telling me that sending Weiss alone, on a single airship, with only two mook guards for protection, while possessing the single most important asset they have in the fight against Salem, which also happens to attract grimm, and just fucking hoping she makes it safely to Atlas is the less risky option?

Seriously?

Come on Dextixer, you got to see that flat-out doesn't make sense. One of these is a plan based on known information with as minimal risk as feasibly possible. The other is just a blind fucking shot in the dark that actively escalates the risk.

---

And you know, speaking generally. for all the shit the critics give RWBY gets for stealing the airship, I think it also bears reminding that Ironwood himself literally didn't give a shit. Once Ruby confirmed they stole the airship, he seems to find the situation outright humorous.

In fact, the only person who seems displeased with them doing so was Winter, and even then it was less "how dare they steal an military airship" and more, "holy crap you could have gotten hurt!" And to further drive the point home, a few moments later she begrudgingly admits she understands.

Ironwood: When a rogue airship entered our airspace, it raised some… red flags. We assumed the ship was stolen.

Ruby: Stolen?

Ruby laughs awkwardly, before taking an apologetic tone.

Ruby: Okay, yeah, it was stolen.

Ironwood's eyes widen in surprise. He then smiles, and his shoulders move a tiny bit with a silent chuckle. Winter, meanwhile, finds no humor in the situation and begins scolding Weiss.

Winter: You stole an Atlas airship?

Weiss watches with a frown as Winter approaches her.

Winter: What were you thinking!? You might've been shot down! How unbelievably irresponsib--

Weiss surprises and interrupts Winter by hugging her.

Weiss: I'm sorry I worried you. But we did what we had to do.

Winter: I…

Winter sighs and hugs back, calming down.

Winter: I suppose I understand.

Click to shrink...

 

[newgman]

This is something that I am surprised doesn't get more attention because as Winter pointed out the stolen Paladins were prototypes and usually those are kept in secure testing locations so if any of them were stolen during transport you would think that the military would have been frantically searching for them and such an incident would have been used by Ozpin to point out that Ironwood might not be the best person to be in charge of security at the festival.

Click to shrink...

I'd have to rewatch the scene, but, if I recall correctly, the council seemed more focused on chewing Ozpin out on his failure instead of considering all the circumstances. I'm guessing that they wouldn't really care about that fact because they saw the breach as solely Ozpin's fault and saw Ironwood cleaning it up. And I'm willing to bet Ozpin saw that as the case and accepted it rather than risk burning political influence in a futile effort.

As for why Ironwood and his forces weren't freaking out? I probably should rewatch the season to be sure, but I can make similar guesses. My gut instinct says a few different factors. The paladins were stolen before Ironwood was in charge of security, so at that point they weren't able to run wild looking everywhere for them. And after? I can see him still stepping lightly to avoid pushing too far and losing his power. After all, Vale didn't end up as bad as Mantle was right away.

I can buy the idea that he would've preferred keeping the info on the downlow and thus having to take it slow. After all, "military loses super advanced hardware" warrants a level of panic. Which, given the setting, just attracts grimm.

Though this is all speculation based on my poor memory.

 

[Dextixer]

Man its a good thing team RWBY can tell the fucking future isn't it?

...Oh wait

Actually hold a moment, you might be on to something Psyga315. Lets take a second and consider what RWBY actually did know when they decided to steal the airship.

-Atlas had locked down everything and withdrawn from the rest of Remnant, with Argus being the sole exception.
-No communications with Atlas proper
-The only Atlesian contact they did have (Cordovin) had made it clear only Weiss would be granted passage explicitly to bring her to her family.
-At no point was meeting or even speaking to Ironwood ever brought up by Cordovin, and the group couldn't exactly announce relic and its importance.
-Which means Weiss would be going to atlas, likely straight to Jacques where he'd isolate her (again), making it rather difficult to meet with Ironwood.
-Oh, and lets not forget that she'd be carrying the relic, one of the single most important objects in the war against Salem, and one that happens to attract Grimm, while completely alone, with only a small escort (presumably a single gunship) (This is actually confirmed when Weiss pretends to accept Cordovin's offer. She sends Weiss along with all of two guards.

Sending Weiss ahead relies in a whole lot of assumptions of a whole lot of things going right based on literally zero information.

---

You know, you say this, but what points of failure were there exactly? Weiss accepts Cordovin's offer, waits until the airship is out of comms range to prevent alarm reaching the base, and hijacks the airship. At the same time, Blake disables the radar tower. Weiss and Maria can pick up the others waiting outside the city and go on their way with Cordovin none the wiser. By the time Cordovin realizes what's happened they're long gone, and will reach Atlas long before any message Cordovin send does.

All in all, that's actually a fairly simple and yes, safe plan. Really, I can only think of two potential points of failure. If Cordovin randomly insists on checking Weiss's luggage (extremely unlikely given how preferential she was already treating Weiss), and Blake somehow failing to disable the radar (which of note, she already has experience with).

Hell, I think the strongest refutation of your claim is that if it weren't for Adam, RWBY's plan not only would have worked, it would have gone of without a hitch.

But, yes, you're right, there is in fact some risk. Imo extremely minor risk, but there definitely is some.

However, compared to sending Weiss alone?

Even completely disregarding what could happen once reaches Atlas, are you seriously telling me that sending Weiss alone, on a single airship, with only two mook guards for protection, while possessing the single most important asset they have in the fight against Salem, which also happens to attract grimm, and just fucking hoping she makes it safely to Atlas is the less risky option?

Seriously?

Come on Dextixer, you got to see that flat-out doesn't make sense.

---

And you know, speaking generally. for all the shit the critics give RWBY gets for stealing the airship, I think it also bears reminding that Ironwood himself literally didn't give a shit. Once Ruby confirmed they stole the airship, he seems to find the situation outright humorous.

In fact, the only person who seems displeased with them doing so was Winter, and even then it was less "how dare they steal an military airship" and more, "holy crap you could have gotten hurt!" And to further drive the point home, a few moments later she begrudgingly admits she understands.

Click to shrink...

Considering that the arguments against "sending Weiss alone" plan included the pilot randomly crashing the plane into the sea and a random Grimm attack, and things like "What if Winter doesnt answer the phone call" we can have many different points of failure for the plan to steal the airship.

What if Blake fails to disable the radar tower without problems and is caught, what if the soldiers there send an alarm? What if Weiss fails to overpower the people in the airship or Cordovin sends more competent people? What if the Atlas shoots down the unauthorized airship due to paranoia?

And before you say "These sound silly" refer to the above produced arguments against sending Weiss ahead plan which, i repeat, included "What is Winter does not answer the phone-call" and the pilot randomly crashing into the sea.

I also love how Cordovin in your argument seems to be given a lot of leeway and is said to be nice to Weiss. But in the arguments of others in this thread, Cordovin is an evil witch that is going to take Weisses phone away and force her to come to her father. Which is it?

Also, once again, does anyone here bother TRYING to read what is written? 2 people already mentioned that the relic could be left with the rest of the team with Only Weiss going ahead, or going ahead with Qrow as a "pet". For crying out loud, how many times will an argument have to be repeated, is this intentional? Is this a tactic of some sort that i do not know about?

Also, why should i care if Ironwood liked/disliked the theft of the airship when the argument surrounding this is how people, the audience reacts to the actions of the protagonists. Also, as someone in this thread has made fun of people using V7 as supporting arguments, the protagonists had no idea at the time how Ironwood would react to their actions in V6 with stealing the airship.

 

[Psyga315]

going ahead with Qrow as a "pet"

Click to shrink...

Stopping that line of thought right there to bring up that Qrow was at his drunkest and do you really want to trust the drunkest of drunkle Qrow to keep up the bird act for who knows how long?

 

[MetropolisMCU]

After all, "military loses super advanced hardware" warrants a level of panic. Which, given the setting, just attracts grimm.

Click to shrink...

I tend to view it as a combination of that and Ironwood wanting to preserve the Atlas Military's (and by extension, his own) reputation.

 

[newgman]

I tend to view it as a combination of that and Ironwood wanting to preserve the Atlas Military's (and by extension, his own) reputation.

Click to shrink...

That also makes sense. Honestly, had a part relating to pride but couldn't get it to not sound too rambly so scrapped it.

 

[Pugman]

Look, each plan carried risks.
However to make sure the team stayed together the heist would be worth the risk. RWBY and JNR look out for each other and there was no way in hell they would let deal with this on her own.

Now Dex, you keep trying to bring up the Bird idea, but that likely would also not work well.
They'd have to convince Cordovin that Weiss FRICKEN Schnee suddenly has a Pet Crow. Given that no such Bird was with her before when the whole squad was at the gates first trying to talk to the Short Stack Specialist they'd REALLY have to sell it.
Not to mention our hero's would likely have to stick Bird Qrow in a cage for hours on end.

And one more point, storywise there are other matters that would still have to be covered.
Some points being;
Qrow's character growth
Adam being a stalker

So really, our heroes going with a risky plan is par for the course for them, while sending one of their own off into danger is not.
In short, heist makes sense, sending Weiss home does not.

 

[SirSpangler]

Considering that the arguments against "sending Weiss alone" plan included the pilot randomly crashing the plane into the sea and a random Grimm attack, and things like "What if Winter doesnt answer the phone call" we can have many different points of failure for the plan to steal the airship.

Click to shrink...

Considering that's literally what happened when Weiss first escaped Atlas? Yeah actually, its more than reasonable to use "Grimm attack" and "crash" as an argument. Espically in this case, where if something happens to Weiss, everybody's kinda screwed because there would be no way of knowing she didn't reach Atlas.

So yeah, even the small risk of a grimm attack is an unacceptable one.

As for the Winter not answering their phone... seriously? There isn't a single person alive who wouldn't answer their phone if their sister that's been missing for months randomly calls them. Idk, just seems like common sense there.
And if she, for some reason, doesn't answer the phone... they can just, you know, call again? You're acting like they only get to call Winter once and if she doesn't answer they're totally screwed.

Which is, you know, wrong.

What if Blake fails to disable the radar tower without problems and is caught, what if the soldiers there send an alarm? What if Weiss fails to overpower the people in the airship or Cordovin sends more competent people? What if the Atlas shoots down the unauthorized airship due to paranoia?

And before you say "These sound silly" refer to the above produced arguments against sending Weiss ahead plan which, i repeat, included "What is Winter does not answer the phone-call" and the pilot randomly crashing into the sea.

Click to shrink...

Tell me, did you bother trying to read what was written? Because once again, yes there is risk. I never denied that. But "Blake somehow failing to do something she's done before" and "Weiss + Maria can't handle a few guards" are a tad low on the risk tree if you get what I'm saying.
As for the guards raising the alarm... umm, did you actually watch the episode? They waited until they were out of comms range before doing the hijack. We literally see Weiss watching her phone until the signal degrades. The guards couldn't raise shit even if they wanted to.

And again, Cordovin thought she was just transporting Weiss to her family, thus "what if she decides to send huntsmen tier fighters with Weiss?" was probably low on the risk tree as well.

And once more, for the Winter thing, yes, I do consider "what if Winter never answers her phone ever again" to be a bit silly myself. Once they're in Atlas, they don't exactly have a time limit. If Winter's so busy she can't answer her missing sister the first time, then they can just call again a few minutes later, and can keep doing it as long as needed. Winter will eventually pick up.

As for, what if "Atlas shoots down the unauthorized airship due to paranoia?" Congratulations! That actually is a risk worth considering... except for the fact that their Manta would read as friendly and that none of them had known Atlas had gotten so paranoid since Weiss had left. "What if Atlas has gone crazy in the span of a few months" isn't exactly something they could have possibly expected, much less plan for.

And even so, it'd still be a lesser risk than Weiss dying before she ever reaches Atlas, them having no way to find out, and so just fucking losing.

I also love how Cordovin in your argument seems to be given a lot of leeway and is said to be nice to Weiss. But in the arguments of others in this thread, Cordovin is an evil witch that is going to take Weisses phone away and force her to come to her father. Which is it?

Click to shrink...

She was nice to Weiss and Weiss alone. Kinda an asshole to everyone else. And I don't know what others were arguing, nor does it really matter to my argument. The group would have been placing everything on Weiss. If she doesn't make it to Atlas, they lose, end of story. Thus, even the remote risk of a Grimm attack is a unacceptable one.

Whereas the plan they went with, even if it fails, doesn't entail complete and total defeat. Worst come to absolute worst, you can surrender to Atlesian forces. The Grimm don't offer the same.

Also, once again, does anyone here bother TRYING to read what is written? 2 people already mentioned that the relic could be left with the rest of the team with Only Weiss going ahead, or going ahead with Qrow as a "pet". For crying out loud, how many times will an argument have to be repeated, is this intentional? Is this a tactic of some sort that i do not know about?

Also, why should i care if Ironwood liked/disliked the theft of the airship when the argument surrounding this is how people, the audience reacts to the actions of the protagonists. Also, as someone in this thread has made fun of people using V7 as supporting arguments, the protagonists had no idea at the time how Ironwood would react to their actions in V6 with stealing the airship.

Click to shrink...

Don't know. I only briefly skimmed the conversation, saw is was the same bullshit arguments again, and focused on the most recent replies. Maybe I should have been more diligent, but frankly I didn't feel like meticulously picking apart the past four pages or however long this has been going on.

The protagonists' actions made logical sense factoring their current situation, known knowledge, and risk vs reward analysis. I'm just pointing out how bizarre/funny it is some of the audience can't seem to understand this when even the in-universe characters with the most reason to object to it, do with ease.

As for the protagonists having no idea how Ironwood would react to their actions... I think they figured he forgive them due to the whole "bringing ultra-important, mega-critical, world-impacting relic of uber-significance in the fight against Salem directly to him." Which, you know, they were right about.

Just seems fairly logical, no?

 

[GuestLurker]

The second is that Ironwood be forced to send his armies back by the council when they learn of the stolen Atlesian paladins the White Fang had. So Cinder and co. can't hack the Atlesian Knights and use them for the Fall of Beacon, but the invading Grimm and White Fang would be enough for a decent fallout.

Click to shrink...

Especially since there would be a big hole in the city funneling them directly in instead of them having to get past the walls or be airdropped by Kevin.

It doesn't help that Cinder literally changes her plans on a dime.

Click to shrink...

Which is a good skill to have that she managed to get back in the habit of after she realized that being powerful isn't the only strength she needs. Now if only she'd use it in a more constructive manner...

 

[Matrix Dragon]

. Now if only she'd use it in a more constructive manner...

Click to shrink...

Well, getting rid of the people who'd backstabbed her and who could tell Salem what REALLY happened with the last question was logical, not just spiteful... Although spite was totally involved

As for the Winter not answering their phone... seriously

Click to shrink...

That one was actually in response to my pointing out it being a valid concern of the heroes. Not one of his. My reasoning for it being a concern for the heroes was not that winter wouldn't answer if Weiss called because obviously she would, but that she was somewhere that the call wouldn't get through. Which in essence, Weiss had fallen victim to this once before, when she went to Mistral to find her sister, only for Ironwood to recall Winter to Atlas.

 

[Pugman]

KISS

 

[Zam]

Happy birthday Blake Belladonna, have some fan art!

Also, as a small change of subject, anyone wonder what would have happened had the Breach not occurred (and by that I mean something like Team RWBY stopping it before it reached the city)?

Click to shrink...

An interesting question!

I think your outline works quite well, but I am actually unsure myself cos Ozpin's whole thing was keeping this war a secret, I could easily see him trying to bury the existence of the operation and its results. Better people have no reason to have ever been afraid than to realize they were in danger being his logic, so the Council might never know.

This still leaves him in charge but I don't see the Atlas military being sent away; this might serve to mitigate Yang's handling post Mercury mangling but otherwise I am unsure how much would change, Cinder was already in their systems after all.

 

[Matrix Dragon]

And as we sound off another year since, let's remember the good parts.

Spoiler

View: https://mylordshesacactus.tumblr.com/post/627804016485793792/adam-taurus-appreciation-post


View: https://disregardcanon.tumblr.com/post/627926650329366528/a-recording-of-the-contents-of

 

[Dextixer]

Considering that's literally what happened when Weiss first escaped Atlas? Yeah actually, its more than reasonable to use "Grimm attack" and "crash" as an argument. Espically in this case, where if something happens to Weiss, everybody's kinda screwed because there would be no way of knowing she didn't reach Atlas.

So yeah, even the small risk of a grimm attack is an unacceptable one.

As for the Winter not answering their phone... seriously? There isn't a single person alive who wouldn't answer their phone if their sister that's been missing for months randomly calls them. Idk, just seems like common sense there.
And if she, for some reason, doesn't answer the phone... they can just, you know, call again? You're acting like they only get to call Winter once and if she doesn't answer they're totally screwed.

Which is, you know, wrong.


Tell me, did you bother trying to read what was written? Because once again, yes there is risk. I never denied that. But "Blake somehow failing to do something she's done before" and "Weiss + Maria can't handle a few guards" are a tad low on the risk tree if you get what I'm saying.
As for the guards raising the alarm... umm, did you actually watch the episode? They waited until they were out of comms range before doing the hijack. We literally see Weiss watching her phone until the signal degrades. The guards couldn't raise shit even if they wanted to.

And again, Cordovin thought she was just transporting Weiss to her family, thus "what if she decides to send huntsmen tier fighters with Weiss?" was probably low on the risk tree as well.

And once more, for the Winter thing, yes, I do consider "what if Winter never answers her phone ever again" to be a bit silly myself. Once they're in Atlas, they don't exactly have a time limit. If Winter's so busy she can't answer her missing sister the first time, then they can just call again a few minutes later, and can keep doing it as long as needed. Winter will eventually pick up.

As for, what if "Atlas shoots down the unauthorized airship due to paranoia?" Congratulations! That actually is a risk worth considering... except for the fact that their Manta would read as friendly and that none of them had known Atlas had gotten so paranoid since Weiss had left. "What if Atlas has gone crazy in the span of a few months" isn't exactly something they could have possibly expected, much less plan for.

And even so, it'd still be a lesser risk than Weiss dying before she ever reaches Atlas, them having no way to find out, and so just fucking losing.


She was nice to Weiss and Weiss alone. Kinda an asshole to everyone else. And I don't know what others were arguing, nor does it really matter to my argument. The group would have been placing everything on Weiss. If she doesn't make it to Atlas, they lose, end of story. Thus, even the remote risk of a Grimm attack is a unacceptable one.

Whereas the plan they went with, even if it fails, doesn't entail complete and total defeat. Worst come to absolute worst, you can surrender to Atlesian forces. The Grimm don't offer the same.


Don't know. I only briefly skimmed the conversation, saw is was the same bullshit arguments again, and focused on the most recent replies. Maybe I should have been more diligent, but frankly I didn't feel like meticulously picking apart the past four pages or however long this has been going on.

The protagonists' actions made logical sense factoring their current situation, known knowledge, and risk vs reward analysis. I'm just pointing out how bizarre/funny it is some of the audience can't seem to understand this when even the in-universe characters with the most reason to object to it, do with ease.

As for the protagonists having no idea how Ironwood would react to their actions... I think they figured he forgive them due to the whole "bringing ultra-important, mega-critical, world-impacting relic of uber-significance in the fight against Salem directly to him." Which, you know, they were right about.

Just seems fairly logical, no?

Click to shrink...

The risk of a Grimm attack exists regardless of who goes. Its barely an argument when this risk exists for everyone and at all times. Its the real world equivalent of "What if i get hit by a car", yeah, its possible that it can happen, we still use the sidewalks dont we? Also, the pilot randomly choosing to crash the plane makes sense? Seriously?

Seriously, the only way that the plan with sending Weiss ahead fails is.... If RWBY fans make up silly reasons for the plan to fail because oh god, the protagonists in the show can never be perceived as wrong.

The only reason why sending Weiss ahead is a bigger risk, is if you make up reasons for it to be a bigger risk. Its especially silly since those SAME risks would exist with everyone being on the ship too. People failing to do things they did in the past is low risk to you, yet we are discussing an Atlas pilot randomly crashing a plane, as if it was their first time on the job.

The actions of the protagonists make "logical sense" if a person goes out of their way to shoot down every other logical solution with nonsensical arguments. The "audience" understands this. The problem is that some parts of the audience are not going to write their own story for themselves just to make the protagonists always right. Welcome to people engaging with media differently.

Like i said, this discussion will go nowhere so its pointless to have it. Because people critical of the show will point out our own arguments and perception, you will do the same with your arguments and perception. And neither side will agree because we simply have completely different perception and opinions.

Which is fine to have. Just dont find it weird that people have different opinions or imply that they are somehow "worse at analyzing" or some other BS. I hope thats not too big of an ask?

 

[Zam]

One person travelling with a Grimm lure VS a whole team of people travelling with a Grimm lure do not equal the same risks.

One person with an extremely powerful abuser whom the person in authority said they would be sending her back to VS a whole team of people deciding where they want to go and thus can avoid said powerful abuser do not equal the same risks.

Acknowledging basic facts as they happen on screen is not the audience writing its own story, its the audience actually watching the show, absorbing what's on screen and deciding agree with the protagonists rather than the idiotic petty tyrant who's getting in their way for shits and giggles.

What is an audience writing its own story is making up a bunch of nonsense that never happened to dismiss what actually happened on screen as wrong, irrelevant or unimportant, Like say, insisting Weiss wouldn't be sent right back to her abuser and that the characters are just stealing for personal comfort, which I will again say is a sick way to look at the situation no matter what happened, as well as being painfully nonsensical.

 

[Grey Rook]

And as we sound off another year since, let's remember the good parts.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that one's funny. Did you post the same article twice, though?

 

[Dextixer]

One person travelling with a Grimm lure VS a whole team of people travelling with a Grimm lure do not equal the same risks.

One person with an extremely powerful abuser whom the person in authority said they would be sending her back to VS a whole team of people deciding where they want to go and thus can avoid said powerful abuser do not equal the same risks.

Acknowledging basic facts as they happen on screen is not the audience writing its own story, its the audience actually watching the show, absorbing what's on screen and deciding agree with the protagonists rather than the idiotic petty tyrant who's getting in their way for shits and giggles.

What is an audience writing its own story is making up a bunch of nonsense that never happened to dismiss what actually happened on screen as wrong, irrelevant or unimportant, Like say, insisting Weiss wouldn't be sent right back to her abuser and that the characters are just stealing for personal comfort, which I will again say is a sick way to look at the situation no matter what happened, as well as being painfully nonsensical.

Click to shrink...

Grimm lure - That is relevant only once in the plot and never again attracts any monsters. Grimm lure that could be left with the team as has been said 3-5 times now to those who bother to read?

An abuser, that would be avoided in the first place by Weiss being able to call her sister, or by being taken straight to Ironwood either through asking or by Cordovin directly implying that they both will meet as Cordovin asks for Weiss to put in a good word with Ironwood on behalf of Cordovin (Which you also ignored for some reason?).

We are all acknowledging basic facts as they happen in the show. You simply ignore half of the arguments that are made. I do not know if its intentional or not. Even your response afterwards just... I dont know. Am i writing in Lithuanian? Russian? You do realize that the accusations you levy against me have already been answered, yet you choose to ignore them outright?

Can anyone explain to me the point of arguing, if you are literally just ignoring half of the things that were said by the opposition? Can anyone here explain? Or is this normal in the RWBY community and i need not bother writing anything because its all gonna be ignored? All of my requests to not ignore what is written are going unnoticed, the requests to tone down the sarcasm and personal attacks. And yet. They all still happen. Its just... So strange to me.

 

[Psyga315]

Can anyone explain to me the point of arguing, if you are literally just ignoring half of the things that were said by the opposition? Can anyone here explain? Or is this normal in the RWBY community and i need not bother writing anything because its all gonna be ignored? All of my requests to not ignore what is written are going unnoticed, the requests to tone down the sarcasm and personal attacks. And yet. They all still happen. Its just... So strange to me.

Click to shrink...

That's a sad truth to RWBY discussion.

At least for me, discussions on RWBY, particularly this thread, have calcified to the point where everything has become a circular discussion and it becomes predictable what will be said at certain points, regardless of what new information is being presented to the thread.

Not helped by the absolute drought of news from RoosterTeeth where our only source of news in recent history is a vague tweet or two and not an actual update. And we're about 11 days away from when January ends.

The weirdest part, and I will emphasize this again since I had brought this up before but it got ignored, is that this latest argument all started from me bringing up how one's overall enjoyment of RWBY depends on how you viewed Volumes 3-6, where it would end up effecting how you even discuss RWBY.

Lo and behold. That's exactly what happened.

Say all you want about RWBY fanfics, but at least you can talk about, you know, different stuff or things that get new updates.

EDIT: I decided to reword my post upon retrospect.

 

[tygerbright]

Yeah, that one's funny. Did you post the same article twice, though?

Click to shrink...

The second one has an audio version, complete with singing.

 

[Itgotworse 26]

One person travelling with a Grimm lure VS a whole team of people travelling with a Grimm lure do not equal the same risks.

One person with an extremely powerful abuser whom the person in authority said they would be sending her back to VS a whole team of people deciding where they want to go and thus can avoid said powerful abuser do not equal the same risks.

Acknowledging basic facts as they happen on screen is not the audience writing its own story, its the audience actually watching the show, absorbing what's on screen and deciding agree with the protagonists rather than the idiotic petty tyrant who's getting in their way for shits and giggles.

What is an audience writing its own story is making up a bunch of nonsense that never happened to dismiss what actually happened on screen as wrong, irrelevant or unimportant, Like say, insisting Weiss wouldn't be sent right back to her abuser and that the characters are just stealing for personal comfort, which I will again say is a sick way to look at the situation no matter what happened, as well as being painfully nonsensical.

Click to shrink...

I'm getting the sense that the argument is that the girls should be submitting to people and systems that clearly spell out that their continued safety, well-being, and lives are against their agendas. Blake should give Adam a chance. Weiss needs to go back to being a prisoner of her father. If they submit hard enough, the system will recognize their sacrifices and save them...somehow.

There's a reason I have an ideological disdain for Atlas, especially after we get a front-row seat to how it gave birth to Cinder. A society that accepts child slavery as a privilege of the wealthy, sees no issue with abrogating any and all services to 'those' portions of their population, sees transparency as an enemy tool instead of a right of their people, and compels the death and sacrifice of 'those' people without offering anything in return, is not a system that should be respected. Anyone who has the misfortune to be born in Mantle has negative obligations to follow anything Atlas orders them to. If a nation compels your death without offering to even try to save your loved ones, why should you obey?

 

[Jcogginsa]

So today, on Blake's Birthday, in the month where we're supposed to get news about the next season, RT has announced....

A bunch of Salem merch. Including a mousepad

 

[Dextixer]

I'm getting the sense that the argument is that the girls should be submitting to people and systems that clearly spell out that their continued safety, well-being, and lives are against their agendas. Blake should give Adam a chance. Weiss needs to go back to being a prisoner of her father. If they submit hard enough, the system will recognize their sacrifices and save them...somehow.

There's a reason I have an ideological disdain for Atlas, especially after we get a front-row seat to how it gave birth to Cinder. A society that accepts child slavery as a privilege of the wealthy, sees no issue with abrogating any and all services to 'those' portions of their population, sees transparency as an enemy tool instead of a right of their people, and compels the death and sacrifice of 'those' people without offering anything in return, is not a system that should be respected. Anyone who has the misfortune to be born in Mantle has negative obligations to follow anything Atlas orders them to. If a nation compels your death without offering to even try to save your loved ones, why should you obey?

Click to shrink...

Oh wow, look, things that were never said! Thank you for proving that nothing anything say matters because you will just create plain BS without reading anything that is written. Thank you my friend, thank you. You are a perfect representative of the RWBY community.

"Do we engage with the arguments presented?"

"Nah, just create some BS to then pretend to have a moral highground, that always works"

 

[Lazurman]

So today, on Blake's Birthday, in the month where we're supposed to get news about the next season, RT has announced....

A bunch of Salem merch. Including a mousepad

Click to shrink...

A mousepad with titties for my wrist to rest on!

But yes--Blake got cheated.