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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Matrix Dragon said:
    He REALLY didn't go cold turkey there. He found the wine cellar, remember?
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    Hmm. It seems I was badly misremembering how things went. I knew he got plastered while they were staying at the farm, but I thought he resolved to quit alcohol in the aftermath of dealing with the Apathy, somehow completely forgetting his breakdown in Argus.

    So, given the actual timings, it's pretty reasonable to assume he had actual help with quitting, or at least managing the withdrawal, in Atlas, we just didn't see it.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Hmm. It seems I was badly misremembering how things went. I knew he got plastered while they were staying at the farm, but I thought he resolved to quit alcohol in the aftermath of dealing with the Apathy, somehow completely forgetting his breakdown in Argus.

    So, given the actual timings, it's pretty reasonable to assume he had actual help with quitting, or at least managing the withdrawal, in Atlas, we just didn't see it.
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    Yeah, the decision to give it up came at the end of V6, and any real effects would have started about a quarter of the way through V7. And it's always possible he's just one of those lucky bastards that can give it up without being knocked around physically. My uncle was like that. Thirty years drunk, gave it up, had occasional cravings and that's it.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    So, given the actual timings, it's pretty reasonable to assume he had actual help with quitting, or at least managing the withdrawal, in Atlas, we just didn't see it.
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    Given the million of other things that were happening, they probably didn't have the time budget to give Qrow a withdrawals arc, then once shit hit the fan and the camera is focused on him, he has a whole new slew of shit to unpack.
     
    It's weird because I went from liking Blake the most in pre-4 seasons to liking Yang the most. Because she's just so...fucking relatable to me as an elder sibling with her own trauma and I just want her to be happy TT_TT
     
    Hmmmm.
    Tell me what you guys think of this idea.
    "Ruby has had trouble working the Silver Eyes because of stress."
    Her eyes have seemed to work best when she has been able to breath and focus.

    Did not work;
    Leviathan first attempt - She tried to dig to happy memories, but started to stress herself out as her mind spiraled to the losses back at Beacon
    Defense/Evacuation of Mantle - She tried to use it, but the noise and chaos kept her from being able to focus.
    Against Cinder in the Central Location - The chaos and stress of both trying to evacuate and protect people, and then again later while dangling from Neo's foot, both times Cinder is giving a distracting monologue .

    Worked;
    The Farm - her first true use came when Maria was able to calm and guide her.
    Leviathan second attempt - Jinn time freeze and compliment helped Ruby relax enough to try and pull for the happy thoughts again.
    Chasing off Cinder - Ruby was clearly focused on Cinder the moment she saw her.

    Reflex;
    Beacon Tower - a scream to the heavens as her desire to protect is unleashed, even if it was to late.
    Haven fight - trauma from Beacon and the real threat of losing another friend to the same person caused the light to be unleashed again.


    So, V9 could be Ruby taking time to process and come to terms with what has happened, and by the time they get out and reunite with everyone she will be calmer and more confident. More determined and focused. More easily able to draw on the light.
     
    Zam said:
    The key difference between Ozpin and Ironwood:

    View: https://anthurak.tumblr.com/post/677767480519901184/i-feel-like-one-of-the-central-key-differences
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    That comparison gets a little bit uncomfortable, since his canon semblance basically prevents him from backing down. With that said, I don't think we ever explicitly learn about his semblance in the show itself and it's problematic from a writing standpoint, so I'm happy enough to head-canon it away.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    That comparison gets a little bit uncomfortable, since his canon semblance basically prevents him from backing down. With that said, I don't think we ever explicitly learn about his semblance in the show itself and it's problematic from a writing standpoint, so I'm happy enough to head-canon it away.
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    His Semblance doesn't force him to do anything, Ironwood activates it when he wants to push through on decisions he knows are bad, not because he's magically compelled against his wishes to keep going no matter what. We literally see him engage it when Oscar is trying to reason with him and he needs to resolve himself to shoot Oscar, thus he turns it on.
     
    The semblance is a manifestation of his natural ability to work through pain, if he wants to be a dumb fuck it's still on him, same as anyone else.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    That comparison gets a little bit uncomfortable, since his canon semblance basically prevents him from backing down. With that said, I don't think we ever explicitly learn about his semblance in the show itself and it's problematic from a writing standpoint, so I'm happy enough to head-canon it away.
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    It's basically "he's stubborn. That's his semblance."

    Wonder if Lionheart's Semblance is similar. "He's cowardly. That's his semblance."
     
    By the above logic, do you think Ren's Semblance was just "he represses his emotions, so that's his Semblance"?

    Like, you can make anything sound dumb if you phrase it right and remove all context, that doesn't actually make your argument good however.
     
    To push back slightly. While in principle there's nothing wrong with Ironwood's semblance be "The American Military's whole thing" there was I think a problem with presentation. Much like there are signs for when Yang, or Ren use their emotion based semblance, I think there needed to be a much clearer sign that Ironwood was or wasn't using his. As it was on my first watch I hadn't even played the Amity Arena game and never saw any sign personally that he was using his semblance. Just being a dickhead.

    If it was more signposted when Ironwood was using his semblance to enable his bad decision making I think it would go over better. But then I also think that Ironwood didn't have a semblance until Amity Arena meant he needed one and they just sort of had to wing one that wouldn't mess up the story too much.
     
    Zam said:
    His Semblance doesn't force him to do anything, Ironwood activates it when he wants to push through on decisions he knows are bad, not because he's magically compelled against his wishes to keep going no matter what. We literally see him engage it when Oscar is trying to reason with him and he needs to resolve himself to shoot Oscar, thus he turns it on.
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    According to the wiki, his semblance is passive, not something he consciously activates:

    As Mettle was a passive Semblance, it was often active in the background of scenes, steering Ironwood in one direction and helping lessen the burden of the consequences of his actions on his psyche.
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    To my knowledge, we never learn about its function, in detail, so that could be incorrect, but the same argument could also be made in the other direction. It's also not about him being "magically compelled against his wishes," so much as it removes his capacity to stop and reassess.

    Matrix Dragon said:
    The semblance is a manifestation of his natural ability to work through pain, if he wants to be a dumb fuck it's still on him, same as anyone else.
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    Agreed, in so much as he's still the one making the decisions and he should know what his own semblance is and what its pitfalls are. However, in that context it becomes more akin to someone failing to manage the effects of a mental disorder.

    Zam said:
    By the above logic, do you think Ren's Semblance was just "he represses his emotions, so that's his Semblance"?

    Like, you can make anything sound dumb if you phrase it right and remove all context, that doesn't actually make your argument good however.
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    You're doing that thing where you strawman my statements while being incredibly rude, again. Please stop.

    Also, Ren's semblance is clearly activated or, at the very least, it has a heightened activated state that we see him consciously using. Ironwood's semblance does not have similar manifestations.

    It is possible that it has a constant dampening effect on his emotions, since they are generally fairly subdued, but not to the point where it could be considered a disorder.
     
    Zam said:
    The key difference between Ozpin and Ironwood:

    View: https://anthurak.tumblr.com/post/677767480519901184/i-feel-like-one-of-the-central-key-differences
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    I agree with most of this, but I will say that I believe James did have that moment of horrible realization, when Cinder said "Checkmate." It told him that everything he'd done? Was all part of the villains' plans. Atlas fell because of him, and he only has himself to blame.

    I'd have liked to see him reflect on that, come to terms with it. But now he's dead as a doornail. He passed the point of no return long ago.

    Rest in peace, James. Whatever afterlife awaits you, I hope it gives you plenty of time to think.


    View: https://edelblume.tumblr.com/post/644842021521129472/let-me-tell-you-a-story-about-a-boy-who-watched
     
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    Matrix Dragon said:
    True. And my sympathy ended for him the moment he decided to abandon an entire city to die.
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    That's generous, given the litany of things he did leading up to it, but I basically agree with you.

    The reason I said the comparison gets slightly uncomfortable, is because the writers, arguably, retconned him into having a mental illness that conveniently explains his dickery and just sort of leaves that aspect unaddressed. I get that it was most likely chosen with little thought, as a simple semblance that wouldn't disrupt anything they'd already shown, but I'm not sure if that actually makes it better any more than another show just happening to pick minority villains for a predominantly white cast, because no one really thought the casting through, is made better by its carelessness. I mean, they very easily could have chosen something else for an innocuous semblance. Maybe he has preternaturally good aim, to tie in with his deagles (they're not exactly typical huntsman weapons), or some ability to naturally graft inorganic matter to his body, to tie in with his prosthesis and transhuman themes.
     
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