RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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That reminded her she couldn't just depend on power to be safe, a harsh lesson but one she needed to learn and had beaten into her... but also that Watts was a former Atlas elite and the exact sort of monster she wanted dead.
I doubt Cinder killing Watts had anything to do with his background. Most likely it was done out of spite because of the disrespect he had shown her both in Atlas and in various other encounters in past Seasons.

If I wanted to give her, perhaps, more credit than she is due; I would also speculate that the fact Watt's knew Cinder had blown the last wish - and thus could potentially reveal this to Salem or use the threat of revealing it as leverage against her - might also have factored into her decision to bump him off.
 
Please she's monster

Yes yes, you don't like her. You believe her and Emerald should die horribly. You made it very clear a long time ago you don't give a shit about redemption unless they're short, regularly screw over everyone for their ego, and kill innocent people solely because someone else was stronger than them.
 
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(Also, I feel like saying Cinder was "re-railed" by Watts's roasting pretty much highlights a fundamental misunderstanding of Cinder's character and of her choices following Watts's smackdown. Watts called her out on her incredibly short-sighted and spiteful bad plans, and Cinder...went ahead and pulled an incredibly short-sighted and spiteful bad plan. On Watts.)

It's almost like yelling at people that they're stupid and inferior to you isn't a very good way to help them learn or grow.
 
The Watts scene is particularly ironic because Watts utterly failed his mission, and the only way he was able to achieve any kind of victory is thanks to Cinder
 
how one of the novels acknowledged that Sun chasing after Blake meant he was running off from the team he's supposed to be leading.
I always find this funny because the show made it abundantly clear that if Sun didn't go to Menagerie with Blake, chances are she would have been captured by the White Fang with her parents assassinated, that or the bombs set on Haven's CCT actually go off because the chain of events that lead to both Ilia's redemption or Menagerie's attack on the White Fang never happened in the hypothetical universe where Sun decided to stick to his team instead of trying to support someone who, ironically, abandoned her team as well (but with the added salt in the wound of not telling anyone).
 
Blake easily could have asked one of the guards or her mother to accompany her on the 'meet Ilia' mission and that was literally the only time Sun proved utterly integral, and beyond that, even if he had been necessary that wouldn't magically make him dipping out on his team for like the fifth time on screen, not an example of his flaky personality. Also wow, great work just spitting on Blake's history of abuse and general trauma to try and make her look bad.
 
Blake easily could have asked one of the guards or her mother to accompany her on the 'meet Ilia' mission and that was literally the only time Sun proved utterly integral, and beyond that, even if he had been necessary that wouldn't magically make him dipping out on his team for like the fifth time on screen, not an example of his flaky personality. Also wow, great work just spitting on Blake's history of abuse and general trauma to try and make her look bad.

Yeah, there's a difference to running off from your team because you wanted to see Vale, or join a friend on what you thought was a grand adventure to fight terrorists, and leaving your team because you've been gaslit into believing you're a danger to them just by being around them, and it's all your fault Adam cut off Yangs arm and killed civilians.

But hey, anything to try and make Adam the Abuser into a hero he never was.
 
Blake easily could have asked one of the guards or her mother to accompany her on the 'meet Ilia' mission and that was literally the only time Sun proved utterly integral, and beyond that, even if he had been necessary that wouldn't magically make him dipping out on his team for like the fifth time on screen, not an example of his flaky personality. Also wow, great work just spitting on Blake's history of abuse and general trauma to try and make her look bad.
Sun was the one who ousted the White Fang spying on the Belladonnas, which was one of those events that led to the 'meet Ilia' mission since the whole reason that happened was because Adam ordered a hit out on her parents after they basically revealed their plans to blow up Haven* and that only happened because of the skirmish that happened once Ilia was spotted spying on Blake and that only happened because Blake threw Sun's phone and it hit Ilia, and that only happened because he went to tell her about how he spotted White Fang wearing masks in the market.

Without Sun, the White Fang would have continued spying on the Belladonnas, possibly carried out their assassination without them being any the wiser, and definitely blow up Haven to shit because no redeemed Ilia and no Menagerie army.

* = though given how slow snail mail is, the order might have been made when they found out where Blake was and it only reached the Albains after Ghira's speech.

But hey, anything to try and make Adam the Abuser into a hero he never was.
Except I didn't even mention Adam?
 
Sun was the one who ousted the White Fang spying on the Belladonnas, which was one of those events that led to the 'meet Ilia' mission since the whole reason that happened was because Adam ordered a hit out on her parents after they basically revealed their plans to blow up Haven* and that only happened because of the skirmish that happened once Ilia was spotted spying on Blake and that only happened because Blake threw Sun's phone and it hit Ilia, and that only happened because he went to tell her about how he spotted White Fang wearing masks in the market.

Without Sun, the White Fang would have continued spying on the Belladonnas, possibly carried out their assassination without them being any the wiser, and definitely blow up Haven to shit because no redeemed Ilia and no Menagerie army.

* = though given how slow snail mail is, the order might have been made when they found out where Blake was and it only reached the Albains after Ghira's speech.
Um, no he didn't? He mentioned someone wearing a White Fang mask was on Kuo Kuana that's it. Your own outline makes it clear that it anything positive coming from it was all happenstance and nothing was so time sensitive at that stage that Ilia couldn't have been spotted later or under other circumstances. Of course even that was of questionable necessity as the scene wasn't about uncovering anything, narratively, it existed solely to introduce us to Ilia and I already covered how Blake could take different back up to the meet up and be fine.

Also as noted, that is in no way relevant to the actual points made in the post which you seem intent on ignoring for whatever reason.
 
Look, yes Sun stalking Blake eventually turned out to be a net positive for the hero side, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he did stalk her out into the ocean and dipped out on his team after they all barely survived the FALL OF AN ACADEMY.
Neptune, Scarlet, and Sage really could of used their leader, but the monkey can't stay put. So while it was all with good intentions Sun still hurt his team.
 
Honestly its amazing how in line with the post the Sun related response is, because the post itself talks about how certain stains of fans demand that the female cast members suffer and get beaten down for every little thing regardless of context but view any even mild critique of a man as some kind of massive offence.

And lo and behold the first retort involved spitting on Blake's trauma and her desire to protect her team by leaving them as she did and her massive self hatred and guilt complex.... While saying that Sun was super special awesome and didn't do anything wrong at all actually despite dipping on his team for significantly less deep reasons and it barely even being noted in the show itself.

Like it is literally an example of what the initial post discussed, to a T.
 
And lo and behold the first retort involved spitting on Blake's trauma and her desire to protect her team by leaving them as she did and her massive self hatred and guilt complex.... While saying that Sun was super special awesome and didn't do anything wrong at all actually despite dipping on his team for significantly less deep reasons and it barely even being noted in the show itself.
You justify Blake running away, I justify Sun running away.

I can call that even.
 
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Please she's monster
Doesn't mean she doesn't want to kill other ones, just that she wants to kill some people that are actually bad too.
I always find this funny because the show made it abundantly clear that if Sun didn't go to Menagerie with Blake, chances are she would have been captured by the White Fang with her parents assassinated, that or the bombs set on Haven's CCT actually go off because the chain of events that lead to both Ilia's redemption or Menagerie's attack on the White Fang never happened in the hypothetical universe where Sun decided to stick to his team instead of trying to support someone who, ironically, abandoned her team as well (but with the added salt in the wound of not telling anyone).
Just because him fucking off from his duties ended up helping someone else deal with other things down the line doesn't mean he didn't fuck off from his duties, it just means it didn't bite him in the ass as much as it could have.
You justify Blake running away, I justify Sun running away.

I can call that even.
Blake ran due to trauma looking to go to her family to heal, Sun ran for the adventure because there might be a fun fight at the end.

Not all runs are the same.
 
Blake ran due to trauma looking to go to her family to heal, Sun ran for the adventure because there might be a fun fight at the end.

Not all runs are the same.

There is also the fact that, as I noted earlier, Adam gaslit Blake into believing she was a danger to Yang, and that it was all her fault she lost her arm, and indeed, that the White Fang attacked Beacon. She had been emotionally manipulated into believing that it would be better for everyone if she went into hiding somewhere her abuser couldn't follow. When she came back to her team, she was clearly guilty and was trying to make up for what she saw and unforgivable sins.

Sun followed her, specifically waving off his responsibilities as team leader as not important, because he figured 'hey, adventure'. He didn't have emotional trauma, injured loved ones, and an abusive ex-boyfriend clouding his judgement. And this wasn't the first time he did it. Remember when he showed up in V1, ahead of his team? He got bored and stowed away on a boat to go to Vale without his teammates. And then when he came back, he waved it off as unimportant, and was offended that his teammates were getting sick of him repeatedly cutting out on them.
 
Yes yes, you don't like her. You believe her and Emerald should die horribly. You made it very clear a long time ago you don't give a shit about redemption unless they're short, regularly screw over everyone for their ego, and kill innocent people solely because someone else was stronger than them.
Oh no your wrong on most Accounts.
I think emerald should be jailed (not really do able during the series)
Cinder should die
I love neo and don't think she's getting a Redemption
 
Sun followed her, specifically waving off his responsibilities as team leader as not important, because he figured 'hey, adventure'.
Yes and No, he actually followed Blake because he thought she could use back up in going after the White Fang since he assumed she was off to stop them, not exactly "Adventure" and more like "hey my friend might need back up, better go help her"
 
Yes and No, he actually followed Blake because he thought she could use back up in going after the White Fang since he assumed she was off to stop them, not exactly "Adventure" and more like "hey my friend might need back up, better help her"

Fair, but given the attitude he'd shown to the White Fang, and helping RWBY before this (Detouring to get noodles, remember that?), I'm not entirely sure I'm wrong. Okay, that's not fair of me. The noodles incident is the result of Monty getting distracted while working out the fight, and forgetting to include Sun and Neptune, so I'm not sure how well you can apply that particular bit of flakiness, no matter how funny it might be :p At the same time, following Blake in V4 being a repeat incident of him running out on his team with little concern for his responsibilities, along with the utterly BONE HEADED stunt of essentially stalking her while disguised, doesn't really imply he thought it though that well.
 
Given the biggest narrative purpose of Sun being there IMO is for that speech to Blake about how her friends choose to put themselves on the line to help her because they care and she just hurts both them and herself by running away from that, which was an extremely important thing for Blake to hear, I think it seriously cheapens that whole stretch of the narrative to act like Sun is just an irresponsible thrill-junkie who thought going with Blake would be more fun or whatever.

Was Sun being an irresponsible team leader? Absolutely. But was his team in serious danger, the way he thought Blake would be? No. There were better ways for Sun to have handled it (and also it's worth acknowledging that even the overall "correct" choice can still have costs and consequences attached to it), but he wasn't actually wrong in judging that Blake was probably in more dire need of a friend to have her back than SSN were, especially since Menagerie turned out a lot less safe than Blake assumed.
 
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