Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[zxzx24]

Ah, that was refreshing. Good of Ami to keep us from interfering.

It reminds me a lot of shadow priests from Zombie Brureaucrat.

It exposits quite a bit about the nature of shadow and how it twists the people who use it. Often to madness.

"The Church of Holy Light and the Kirin Tor would not tell you such, but it is very much within our power to control the Shadow. You see, where the Light is an encouraging and positive force, building up the mind of the user, the Shadow is destructive to it. This destructive nature is a test to its users..."

Just a brain bunny, anyway, merry christmas all!

 

[Cariyaga]

I think Ami must have had enough evidence to figure it out, if anything via the Naruto Communication Network during the initial disaster response. That worked via long-range clone information transfer. On the other hand, Keiko's use of SC didn't involve use of chakra sharing , so that's still under wraps.

Edit: Also, why does the taijutsu spec have more chakra than the summoner?

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She's older. Also, you're working under the impression Hazou is not planning for every one of the members of Team Uplift to have a summon scroll at some point. Gotta catch 'em all.

When I tried it, I found that my platforming skills weren't enough to proceed without significant frustration, to the point where I got it refunded. However, I do want @Evenstar's emotional intelligence, so I'll have to give it another go. At least it's half-off on the winter sale.

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Oh, so the great thing about Celeste, is that there's a built-in assist mode, where you can do a number of things, from a slight slow-down (I believe it scales in 10% intervals from 100% to 50%), to no dying (aside from falling off-screen), to infinite dashes. It's pretty accessible, even if you're not great at platformers.

 

[Icehawk78]

When I tried it, I found that my platforming skills weren't enough to proceed without significant frustration, to the point where I got it refunded. However, I do want @Evenstar's emotional intelligence, so I'll have to give it another go. At least it's half-off on the winter sale.

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I've found watching Let's Play videos on YouTube to be good for content that you're interested in but don't necessarily want to dedicate the effort to learning how to play the game itself.

 

[Cariyaga]

My favorite emotional-intelligence-improving-games are The World Ends With You, Undertale, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (time/darkness/sky), Celeste, and Night in the Woods.

 

[Raichu1972]

My favorite emotional-intelligence-improving-games are The World Ends With You, Undertale, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (time/darkness/sky), Celeste, and Night in the Woods.

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PMD was my shit as a kid and had no reason to be anywhere near as good as they are.

 

[Immortal Lurker]

I don't expect it to be anything exciting.

HAZOU1: You are also a Hazou? Aware of the intrinsic shittiness of the world and the fact that reality as a whole is pretty much a weak cobweb? No reason at all not to work very hard to make it less crappy and awful?

HAZOU2: Yup.

HAZOU1: Cool, so thats that then.

HAZOU2: Stop bullshitting, we've got work to do.

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I would be very interested to see if Hazou2 can hear the hivemind.

That might be more information than we want Hazou to have.

 

[Emstar]

I would be very interested to see if Hazou2 can hear the hivemind.

That might be more information than we want Hazou to have.

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I don't really think any of the QM's want to put the hivemind on the other side of the 4th wall for various reasons.

 

[Inferno Vulpix]

I would be very interested to see if Hazou2 can hear the hivemind.

That might be more information than we want Hazou to have.

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In an ex-canon chapter (the YOUTHSUIT one), Hazou got mind-dived by Ino and in her report on the topic she noted Hazou as having an 'aberrant personality manifold':

However, I should note that I found what the Yamanaka term an "aberrant personality manifold". While a normal person has a few different voices for their inner monologue, representing major aspects of their identity, aberrant personality manifolds contain dozens or hundreds of voices, some with convergent personalities and some which are more extreme. Little is known about this phenomenon, as known subjects can be counted on the fingers of one hand. For further information on aberrant personality manifolds, please contact one of the Yamanaka Clan elders.

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While this chapter is ex-canon and therefore no longer binding on the QMs, it was canon once and thus indicates that Velorien at one point thought this was a reasonable interpretation of reality. As such, there is a non-negligible chance that the QMs still, if pressed, would describe Hazou as having an aberrant personality manifold.

What such a condition means for shadow clones is impossible to say, since it's unlikely any such person has ever used the jutsu before. It's possible that the condition has no effect on the jutsu, but it's also possible that some voices are louder or quieter than normal, resulting in a different synthesis than Hazou is used to.

This is only a hypothetical of a hypothetical, but if the QMs decide that Hazou really does have an aberrant personality manifold and that its effects are relevant to Shadow Clone, we could see what people have speculated earlier about Shadow Clone!Hazou 'taking after' different members of the hivemind as the synthesis of Hazou changes. While all of that is eminently reasonable for the QMs to rule, and I would not be surprised if things ended up working out that way, I would be very surprised and somewhat upset if the fourth wall was properly broken and Hazou's Shadow Clone directly heard hivemind members speaking into his head.

In other words, we might see some interesting phenomena that looks very loosely referential to the hivemind, explainable by factors foreshadowed hundreds of chapters ago in a deleted timeline, but there won't be any metafictional trouble. Probably.

 

[Velorien]

In an ex-canon chapter (the YOUTHSUIT one), Hazou got mind-dived by Ino and in her report on the topic she noted Hazou as having an 'aberrant personality manifold':

While this chapter is ex-canon and therefore no longer binding on the QMs, it was canon once and thus indicates that Velorien at one point thought this was a reasonable interpretation of reality. As such, there is a non-negligible chance that the QMs still, if pressed, would describe Hazou as having an aberrant personality manifold.

What such a condition means for shadow clones is impossible to say, since it's unlikely any such person has ever used the jutsu before. It's possible that the condition has no effect on the jutsu, but it's also possible that some voices are louder or quieter than normal, resulting in a different synthesis than Hazou is used to.

This is only a hypothetical of a hypothetical, but if the QMs decide that Hazou really does have an aberrant personality manifold and that its effects are relevant to Shadow Clone, we could see what people have speculated earlier about Shadow Clone!Hazou 'taking after' different members of the hivemind as the synthesis of Hazou changes. While all of that is eminently reasonable for the QMs to rule, and I would not be surprised if things ended up working out that way, I would be very surprised and somewhat upset if the fourth wall was properly broken and Hazou's Shadow Clone directly heard hivemind members speaking into his head.

In other words, we might see some interesting phenomena that looks very loosely referential to the hivemind, explainable by factors foreshadowed hundreds of chapters ago in a deleted timeline, but there won't be any metafictional trouble. Probably.

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I would like to emphasise that that update was 100% not binding, down to its laws of physics, and is best thought of as a reality falling apart at the seams due to the incredible damage done to its fabric (and the QMs' minds) by the Youthsuit vote.

 

[Rafin]

I don't really think any of the QM's want to put the hivemind on the other side of the 4th wall for various reasons.

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Have they actually said, one way or the other? Also, the hivemind has already been on the other side twice. Once during the event that elevated Oliwhail to QM and once in the retconned Youthsuit chapter.

Edit: Somehow missed some posts. In any case, till now the hivemind, like retcons, has been hidden away behind interdimensionale Out shenanigans. But with Hazō now being touched by the Out in a more blatant manner, the door to these kinds of things appearing within the story might have been opened.

 

[Inferno Vulpix]

Have they actually said, one way or the other? Also, the hivemind has already been on the other side twice. Once during the event that elevated Oliwhail to QM and once in the retconned Youthsuit chapter.

Edit: Somehow missed some posts. In any case, till now the hivemind, like retcons, has been hidden away behind interdimensionale Out shenanigans. But with Hazō now being touched by the Out in a more blatant manner, the door to these kinds of things appearing within the story might have been opened.

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If the QMs were of a mind to break the fourth wall, Hazou's connection to the Out would indeed be a good opening to introduce that into the story. The thing is, though.... why? What is there to be gained by breaking the fourth wall? It wouldn't be for a comedic gag like fourth wall breaks are typically used, and I don't think the QMs desire for Marked For Death to become embroiled in deep metanarrative of the consequences of being in a fictional world, and any half-baked approach to the topic would just be irritating in how such a significant thing failed to exhibit the significance it deserves.

I also vaguely recall the QMs stating as much, that they don't intend to break the fourth wall, before, but even that aside it just doesn't make sense for them to do so unless they want to tear focus away from the world of mfd and into the metanarrative of mfd, which I can't see them wanting to do after spending so long working on the world of mfd.

 

[Kiba]

Have they actually said, one way or the other? Also, the hivemind has already been on the other side twice. Once during the event that elevated Oliwhail to QM and once in the retconned Youthsuit chapter.

Edit: Somehow missed some posts. In any case, till now the hivemind, like retcons, has been hidden away behind interdimensionale Out shenanigans. But with Hazō now being touched by the Out in a more blatant manner, the door to these kinds of things appearing within the story might have been opened.

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I don't think it's the literal hivemind.

Likely, multiple personalities will explain the way Hazo behaves.

 

[hYGP]

Incidentally, we also managed to loes a few of our assets that we have and...haven't done anything with. As a result, I thought I'd start compiling a list of stuff we have(help me please faflec) that might be easier to forget about. I'm focusing specifically on the period from Chapter 261: Responsibility to Chapter 301:
megazakuassets

Spoiler: Quotes

The final page of Jiraiya's will outlines what he bequeaths to each of you.

The Toad summoning scroll goes to the Gōketsu, to be bestowed upon whomever the clan selects (along with a note that Naruto is still not eligible to be a summoner no matter how much he whines and no it's not fair but that's how summoning works so shut up brat), as do Jiraiya's personal notes on the politics of the Seventh Path, and his sealing notes. He has also left you a set of notes from his spy network that he never found a use for, including black market contacts, smuggling routes, and blackmail material on certain civilian authorities.

His ninjutsu scrolls go to Naruto, as do his personal savings. He also leaves Naruto an unlabelled set of access codes to bring to ANBU.

Various items of sentimental value are divided up according to unclear principles. For example, Jiraiya's diary and a copy of his first novel go to Naruto. His forehead protector and novel drafts go to the Gōketsu.

He also leaves behind a letter of pardon and immediate appointment as a senior medic-nin for Orochimaru, conditional on him safely returning Naruto to Leaf.​

​

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Hazō nodded grimly. "Pretty sure I do. I completely bought out one of the suppliers. A good chunk of Leaf is going to be hurting for salt for a while, but that should just improve market conditions. When we get our first load in I'll divide it evenly between all the salt merchants, no charge. That way there's nothing for the Merchant Council to bitch about, it gets the stuff into circulation quickly, and it will establish our credentials as a supplier of good merchandise. Later on we'll see if we can get some disaster relief funds from the Tower to offset our costs. And, of course, we'll start charging."

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"Right. First off, the Hagoromo deal is perfect. Signed and sealed. Do you want to deliver it, should I, or should one of the others?"

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Aito skimmed through it. Description and boundaries of the land...acknowledgement of expected condition...the stated price...acknowledgement that this was a promissory note and not enforceable until brought into compliance with all laws and regulations of the Village Hidden in the Leaves...Lord Gōketsu's signature. Yes, all as expected. Aito took the brush and added his own signature.

Lord Gōketsu took the paper and smiled. "Brilliant. Thank you. Let me make a second copy for you." He took the brush back and began producing a second, eerily identical, document.

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Jiraiya left us shogi-based codes for contacting high-level contacts. Memorize them.

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You sent one of your totally-not-branch-family ninja to locate and purchase a tavern/inn for you. He found a tavern (i.e. a bar that serves some food but does not have bedrooms) called The Naked Jaybird (it has a picture of a plucked bluejay on a sign out front) and made an offer to the owner. He accepted. It was damaged by the seal failure; the place is missing two walls and the insides have suffered a lot of storm damage, but it's yours.

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"Message from Ami for you," Naruto said with a smirk. "She says she'll be keeping Noburi indefinitely, because he has a good sense of humour and is fun to flirt with. Also she's low on medics. To pay you back, she'll be sending you a couple of cranky construction specialists, a laid-back taijutsu spec, and an insufferable but talented logistician as a Keiko replacement.

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We have:

• Jiraiya
  • Seventh Path notes
  • Sealing notes
  • Unused spynetwork notes
    • Black market contacts
    • Smuggling routes
    • Blackmail material on certain civilian authorities
  • Shogi messages for high-level contacts
• Businesses
  • An entire salt supplier
  • Land by River
  • The Naked Jaybird (heavily damaged tavern)
• Active Clan Deals
  • Hagoromo Deal
  • Amori Deal

"Civilians? Uh...I dunno. Three, maybe four hundred? It went through one of the big markets. Looked like chunky salsa afterwards. The bad part is going to be the infrastructure. Seven wells got collapsed, so large parts of the city are without easy access to water. One of the secondary granaries blew up and they're still putting out fires. Additionally, the caravansary over by the east gate got hit hard. A lot of foreign merchants are dead and there's a hell of a lot of injured and dead draft animals. Still, if the Nara hadn't figured out what was causing it and how to fix it, this would have gone a lot worse."

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incidentally the next Merchant's Gazeteer is going to mention this and global trade to Leaf is going to drop like a fcuking rock, but whatever we can't be arsed to deal with that right now.

 

[Noumero]

Wait, is this canon? I'm genuinely scared that this is canon.

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This is canon. You can see it in Keiko's character sheet.

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What does this exchange remind me of? Oh.

Finally, the horrible truth dawned on Kei. "This is a dream." [...]

Ami gave her a look of compassion that only amplified her suffering. "It's not a dream. Try using the Frozen Skein."

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[Kiba]

Incidentally, we also managed to loes a few of our assets that we have and...haven't done anything with. As a result, I thought I'd start compiling a list of stuff we have(help me please faflec) that might be easier to forget about. I'm focusing specifically on the period from Chapter 261: Responsibility to Chapter 301:
megazakuassets
We have:

• Jiraiya
  • Seventh Path notes
  • Sealing notes
  • Unused spynetwork notes
    • Black market contacts
    • Smuggling routes
    • Blackmail material on certain civilian authorities
  • Shogi messages for high-level contacts
• Businesses
  • An entire salt supplier
  • Promissory note for land by River
  • The Naked Jaybird (heavily damaged tavern)
• Active Clan Deals
  • Hagoromo Deal
  • Amori Deal

incidentally the next Merchant's Gazeteer is going to mention this and global trade to Leaf is going to drop like a fcuking rock, but whatever we can't be arsed to deal with that right now.

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We already owned the land by River. But nobody is working the land to prep for agriculture. Also, chakra beast infested iron mine.

 

[hYGP]

We already owned the land by River. But nobody is working the land to prep for agriculture. Also, chakra beast infested iron mine.

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We got the promissory note, but I don't remember reading anything about actually securing the land; we put it on the list of tasks to juggle on our three week chakra beast project, but we went north and weren't able to get it done.

 

[Kiba]

We got the promissory note, but I don't remember reading anything about actually securing the land; we put it on the list of tasks to juggle on our three week chakra beast project, but we went north and weren't able to get it done.

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Securing the land as in actually owning it or clearing the land of chakra beast? I am pretty sure we owned the land, though.

 

[eaglejarl]

@Velorien or @OliWhail can overrule me if they feel strongly / if we discussed this and I've forgotten.

Unless that happens, you own the land.

 

[Evenstar]

When I tried it, I found that my platforming skills weren't enough to proceed without significant frustration, to the point where I got it refunded. However, I do want @Evenstar's emotional intelligence, so I'll have to give it another go. At least it's half-off on the winter sale.

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For me it was important to be intrinsically motivated, but so long as you play it because you want to it ought to be ok.

I've found watching Let's Play videos on YouTube to be good for content that you're interested in but don't necessarily want to dedicate the effort to learning how to play the game itself.

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@Velorien: Do Not. Seriously. IMO this would be a major mistake.

 

[Paperclipped]

Bloodlines are powerful and important, and you may have wanted to know more about which bloodlines do what. It may be important to know what village has what bloodlines, so that we can prepare adequately when going up against a force from said village. Maybe the hoarding of knowledge is its own reward. Regardless, here's my best shot at cataloguing the MfD-original bloodlines and clan-secrets clans. Note that this does not include bloodlines that were in canon and changed - e.g. Nara gaining a thinker-style bloodline.

Name	Brief Description	Village	Citation	Notes
Kurosawa, Iron Nerve	Replay of past movements, download seals	Mist	(omitted)	P.C. bloodline. Allows small chance of manifesting Sharingan.
Mori, Frozen Skein	Analyze plans, saps creativity, has a "greater purpose"	Mist	(omitted)	(THINKER) Has a Mori Voice which speaks to user.
Wakahisa, Vampiric Dew	External chakra system that can be shared, can drain chakra with water	Mist	(omitted)	User's chakra system is crippled, precludes Shadow Clone.
Kozu	Detachable body parts that still relay sensory info	Mist
Fukimoto	Crab-like chakra constructs	Mist	eaglejarl
Hōzuki	(unknown)	Mist	eaglejarl	A clan by the same name was exterminated (c. 148)
(unknown)	Teleporting, leaving lightning behind	Mist	interlude
Minami	User drops invisible chakra prism, acts as vision	Leaf		Supplements vision at 12 meters, replaces at 120.
Motoyoshi	Freeform telekinesis (?)	Leaf	271	Used only on rubble for clearing up sealing failure.
Kurusu	Making objects adhesive (?)	Leaf	271	Used only on rubble for clearing up sealing failure.
Hazama	Create lightning pillars, sense living things	Cloud	183	Sense living is theorized by Jiraiya - pillars can be anywhere - confirmed by Hinata.
Ryugamine	Special lightning-taijutsu style	Cloud	183	Doesn't seem to be innate.
Raiyoke	"ingenious without curiousity"	Cloud	291	(THINKER) Notable member - Grandmaster F.
Namazu	Special set of earth-element techniques	Rock	183	Doesn't seem to be innate.
Tama	Enhanced thinking with tunnel-vision	Rock	183	(THINKER) Interested in continued existence of Nara.
Yakeyama	Technique Hackers, use Water and Fire elements	Rock	183	Described as "Artillery"
Shirogane	Swordsmaster Clan, kenjutsu style	Rock	291	Current Tsuchikage
(unknown)	Puppeteering	Sand	291	Notable member - Chiyo
Yodomi	Enhanced optimization powers, not innovative	Sand	291	(THINKER) Enhanced puppetry techniques
Sakamoto	Invisibility (possibly the Light Element mentioned by Ami in 242)	Waterfall	183
Mitsurugi	Special kenjutsu style	Waterfall	183
Kotsuzui, Blood Element	Regeneration, Blood clones, tracking powers, etc.	Hot Springs
Minawa, Inner Fire	Supposedly like Wakahisa (drain and share chakra?)	Hot Springs	183	Reserves are supposedly smaller than a Wakahisa's
Kiyoshi	(unknown)	Hot Springs		Bloodline held by the father of Honami's child.
Star Element	(unknown)	(unknown)	107	Mentioned by Panpaidu in the same breath as the canon Storm Element (confirmed here) and the real Blood Element.
Sen's bloodline	Allows animation of (metal?) objects	(unknown)	(Ui's interlude)	Allows him to weave a wall of shuriken, "swarm of iron"
Tenjin's bloodline/clan	Fire of the Gods Technique	(unknown)	192	Unsure if this is a bloodline or clan secret at all

I'll be maintaining this list. Additional citations or information would be appreciated.

 

[Icehawk78]

@Velorien: Do Not. Seriously. IMO this would be a major mistake.

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Honest question - why is that? Is there something about playing this game in particular (rather than other story-heavy games) that gets lost in the change in medium? Or more of a general disagreement with watching games for the story as a more basic concept?

 

[Evenstar]

Honest question - why is that? Is there something about playing this game in particular (rather than other story-heavy games) that gets lost in the change in medium? Or more of a general disagreement with watching games for the story as a more basic concept?

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The particular game. Velorien, I highly reccommend not looking in the spoiler.

Spoiler

Celeste draws a lot of its effect from strong identification with and immersion as the heroine, and teaches through its gameplay as much as its story. It coveys far more if played than watched.

In particular, the brutal and often frustrating difficulty is important to the message of the game, because Celeste is fair. It's brutally, honestly fair. The only reason you die when playing Celeste is because you are not skilled enough.

And you will die. Over, and over, and over.

Celeste broke me of my fear of failure, and it did that largely by investing me deeply enough that it pushed me through a wall. I broke my personal frustration barrier, and it hasn't reformed since. Sometimes I still go back to the game, just to remind myself that failure isn't final until you give up, that failing can be fun, that I can develop mastery, that humans can self-modify in a very real and true way.

It also matters that you hate Badeline. That you see her as Madeline sees her. That also takes investment and frustration and wanting progress that isn't coming fast enough for you.

Realizing that you, too, have been reading Badeline wrong for the entire game is very fucking important. It's the lesson. And I don't want Velorien to trip over it by accident in a let's play.

 

[Rafin]

I don't think it's the literal hivemind.

Likely, multiple personalities will explain the way Hazo behaves.

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Hazō experiences none of the symptoms and his internal thoughts never mention anything like it. If he has multiple personalities like that, they are purely subconscious, with a single personality being the only interface with both the real world and Out shenanigans, said single personality not ever consciously acknowledging the other ones.

• Hagoromo Deal
• Amori Deal

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Can anyone give me a refresher as to what those deals entail?

 

[Emstar]

Can anyone give me a refresher as to what those deals entail?

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Monthly pile of money to the Hagoromo, pile of favor tokens fo the Amori iirc.

 

[Rafin]

And they gave us just their one-time vote? Also, what do the favors entail? The chapter I found about them were very vague, but any actual inter-clan contract probably won't be.