Just say "we're better than Orochimaru, but not as good as Jaraiya yet"
[ ] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
[ ] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
🤷♂️ it originally had the Goketsu and it's why I voted for it. I might have to sit the vote out if it doesn't add that back in. Simple as.
I mean, Nara Kei is literally not a Gouketsu as her primary afilliation and is the wife of the Nara Clan Head, privy to their Clan Secrets..
Its not like she would be in any danger remaining at Leaf... and have you considered she might actively *want* to stay even if we left? Would we be kidnapping her out of a misguided desire for bringing full Team Uplift along? Our friends are not puppets, they have lives at Leaf, and they might not wanna leave..
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- U.S.
I'm not sure the "uproot all of Goketsu and move to Rain" plan is all that good. They all know people in Leaf too. That's part of why we're going for a extended mission as a third option, not outright defection.
If you're sure about it, I could add something about asking for it, but do you really want to force any of them to come on the mission with you?
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- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I feel like this is a simple "Kei do you want to come with?" "No/Yes" "Alright"
The first option is more...defection but forced. And in that case, yes I want them with us. The only one with real ties to the Leaf is Kei due to her marriage. Everyone else can pretty much just leave, especially if we take Yuno with us.
Cut this. It doesn't help our case just give up incredibly valuable intel for free.
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- U.S.
Okay, so. I could add this in there as a additional request, but this also doesn't seem like something that is going to happen all in one post. If we pull this off, it'll be involved.
Instead of trying to put the "maybe bring our family" here, maybe put it in the next plan? Surely we're not going to end up all the way in Rain, in a single update when we technically haven't even given a firm answer yet?
If we consult with Ami, or come up with a workable plan to leave otherwise, I fully expect we'll have at least one plan to judge the situation and make last-minute requests pre-departure.
Done, it's not that significant anyway.
I would have no issue with this, my objections are more "this is much too complex a topic to tackle in two sentences during a plan that features a crucial negotiation, before its outcome is even decided" than "this is a terrible idea". We need to find more solid ground under our feet before making that request, if only to know what we are working with.
But if it would cost votes to omit it, I'm perfectly fine with including it, even if I dont think packaging this much together into one plan is a good idea.
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Omake: Mixed Messages
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
There was no time left to think. Itachi was about to leave, and Hazō's answer had to come, fast. He could not condense the absurd amount of thoughts he was considering, unless...
"Yo."
Itachi looked somewhat surprised.
"Yo?"
"Exactly."
"Gōketsu..."
"I mean nes."
The surprise quickly escalated into a fully nonplussed expression.
"Are you... mocking me, Gōketsu?"
"I want to and not to join. Yesno, right? No."
Hazō could see Itachi fail to understand that he had given his answer. But how did he manage to miss such a synthetic explanation? Hazō could not possibly have made it any more clear. He knew exactly what he meant: he wanted to join and stay. And this was developed rationally, in a dozen different sublists of varying inter-contrariness. His mind's eye read, clear as day, what he wanted to say and condemn, and do just as well as not do. This was crystal clear! Why did the serious face across from his wax so sour?
"I warn you, and will do so only once. I came here presently to conduct business, and amusing anecdotes about Orochimaru notwithstanding, I remain focused on the objectives I set. I asked you a simple question. Are you, Gōketsu, mocking me?"
"Of course not. Totally, you cagey loser. I'm better than Sasori, by the way. You need to let me take him on as an apprentice, so I'll learn from him. I'll go tell Tsunade. By the way, we're staying. But with you. I know how to make seals you wouldn't believe are possible, and with my eyes I can remember them all forever but shhhh, you mustn't tell Itachi that. I can t@L|< with with with the Out,, and see b+yond t e p£int that h}de/s re*liʈy. Can you kidnap me so it's not treason? I do that."
If Itachi wore a cross expression before, he had now transitioned to a practiced face of grim resignation. The young adult's face, already pale, now looked positively cadaveric as the blood drained from it.
"Oh Sage, another one... of course Hidan set his eyes on him. I must trust that this, too, is my lot..."
By the time he was finished mumbling, Hazō was violently seizing on the ground, like a man possessed.
By the time he had taken Hazō to Rain, he had stopped trying to speak to him. A genjutsu refresh every thirty minutes ensured his peace of mind.
By the time they had got there, he had resorted to an improvised gag, using a piece of cloth, to prevent any babbling.
-o-o-o-
"Itachi, this is exactly and also not at all what we agreed on! I said I'd give up and take over and help you and independently conduct the project! Will you help me also what are you doing here?"
-o-o-o-
"No, Hidan, but of course yes. It's all worth it in the end so I'll gladly do it but it's a principle of mine I refuse to break."
-o-o-o-
-o-o-o-
"Just between you and me, Deidara, if you place a seal in your clay so there is a localised storage space near that explosive, you can detonate it much closer to you but the explosion will be directional. Absolutely do not share this kind of information with Akatsuki."
-o-o-o-
"If you trust Tobi, Kisame, then that's fine. Like you say, you've had much more opportunity to test him than I have. But if that trust means you're not even going to check whether what I'm saying is right, and Tobi turns out to be a threat, then you're putting the entire Elemental Nations in danger. And you need to understand something. Uplift is precious to me, and I am willing to go pretty damn far to defend it."
-o-o-o-
"So I says to Jashin, I says-
"No, I don't want to even talk to that delusion of a god, you lunatic!
"Can you tell me more about him, though?"
-o-o-o-
"If we resurrect Kishigami, not that I plan to, but you know, it's totally possible and I will do it but it's not like I would try, will his paper arts be the same as yours, except they won't, because he's not coming back, but will they be the same anyway?"
-o-o-o-
"I know your black and white halves aren't the same person, you singular person I am unawares about. Do you have an evil plan? I won't get in your way. You won't get away with it!"
-o-o-o-
Dear Tsunade, or to whomsoever it may concern,
The clouds over Rain have settled enough for this expedition to be launched, as the seasons change.
Along with this missive, you will find one (?) Gōketsu Hazō, whom I abducted against, and also according, to his will(s) a few months ago. Please, please, PLEASE keep him aimed any way except towards us. Tobi is still unconsolable, Zetsu is undergoing daily crises of the self, and Deidara repeatedly exclaims he has unveiled the secrets of neo-cubism.
Yours sincerely,
Itachi Uchiha.
Itachi Uchiha.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Mild preference for changing it back to just Ami. Or asking Ami specifically to come up with some creative plan for keeping Hazou himself focused, and cutting out his tendency for self-distraction.
Two reasons:
- Assigning the responsibility for X to a specific singular individual, instead of to a group, is the basics of effective project management. Assigning responsibility to a group invokes the generalized version of the Bystander effect, where none of them really feel that it's their job to ensure X gets done, such that if X isn't done, it's their fault. Everyone being responsible means no-one is.
- This is in large part an attempt to manipulate the story at the narrative level, and I expect Ami-as-a-character specifically to be much better at doing this than Mari and Kei ever could.
Nevertheless, I'd prefer to single Ami out somehow here, to ensure that "Hazou doesn't get distracted" is entangled with "Ami is a very effective agent" at the narrative level.
Some of us are considering still voting your your plan. But we would *need* this point to come last, after the more collaborative pitches. Ideally, you would reverse the order entirely and put the AMITY pitch first.
ping me if you do this.
Damn, this is genuinely hilarious!
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I feel like we're not talking about the same part of your plan. Ami isn't even really all that involved in the part I'm talking about.
All I want is for this to say "demand Goketsu (Mari, Kei, Yuno, Noburi, Kagome) from Leaf as a concession."
It...was originally in your plan to begin with and the reason why I voted, as I explicitly laid out.
- Location
- Yes.
Speaking as the one who made the suggestion for it to be changed...while there's an argument to be made that Ami is better than Mari/Kei at this, it will strictly undermine Mari's credibility for Hazou to have to speak to an out-clan to essentially take over the duties of Clan Head enough that Hazou has time to deal with shit, not to mention that Ami has far more preexisting plates juggling (AMITY) and may well be needed if we need to stall Akatsuki (given her in with the organization).
Perhaps, as a compromise, we entrust Ami with putting out the international fires, while Kei and Mari focus on the within-Leaf and within-Goketsu fires?
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
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- Pacific standard
[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
Tried to read this aloud, spent more time helplessly laughing than speaking.
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- U.S.
Alright, if you are going to insist on it, but I would honestly be surprised if we even carry out the plan in this update instead of merely deciding on the plan/consulting Ami. Would it be okay if i put it in gentler wording, something like "Maybe I could ask if any of my family would volunteer to keep me company during my 'captivity'"?
Edit: Actually, whether or not it is put in the plan, could that be declared? Something like Declare (1 fp): "Noburi dramatically announces that he's not letting us go alone as we depart for Rain."
@Left-Hand Mutant
I think this can work. The initial pitch is strong enough now that we probably wouldn't suffer from putting our plans in a different order.
Would it be acceptable if I added something like a "Please, hear us out before deciding on anything", with the goal that Itachi listens to all three plans first and then decides? The AMITY pitch would still come first.
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I'm going to be honest here.
This plan has very bad things that can result of it. Like -- You say at the end "Not getting Jiraiya resurrected is not an option" but in spite of considering the very real possibility that Tsunade demands the rift be destroyed, you have no considerations for what to do if she insists. Which is, I submit, at least 20% likely to happen.
And, setting aside the relatively large possibility space in which that happens directly contradicting your plan's stated goals -- it will also result in the death of Leaf as a polity.
Tsunade is not a politician. She is not trained in it, and has done everything possible in her life to avoid political considerations at all like "if we are known to be pursuing necromancy separate of Akatsuki it is possible they will see this as reason to take Leaf out entirely".
So, frankly, I think involving Tsunade in this way is a complete nonstarter and will, in an unacceptably large number of universes, result in a Bad End both for your plan's stated intentions and Leaf as a whole.
No dice. we try to convince him to collaborate first. If we have to propose the basically-kidnap option, we only mention it *after* the prosocial non-bridge-burning methods have been tried and failed.
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- Location
- Yes.
To be clear, you are advocating to explain that a) Hazou is insanely valuable for having discovered lithosealing; and b) Hazou has a bloodline that lets him memorize seals, even legendary ones. This is a major OPSEC breach. This is a minor point however, because if I were to join Akatsuki in full I would be advocating to give all this information and more to Itachi (though maybe not quite so immediately, even given the context). The rest, however...
- You are voting to involve Ami, and bring up the idea of telling Itachi that Ami knows about Project Necromancy. Ignoring that Ami is not well-respected enough among Akatsuki to be able to join this level of conversation...I know that this isn't done unless "if necessary", but I'm going to say that Hazou probably doesn't know how necessary this is, and I definitely don't think it has been brought up that Itachi will likely kill Ami to keep the secret of Project Necromancy.
- Your #1 (and #2 to an extent) dooes not solve the key concerns Itachi brought up in the most recent update: Tsunade will not give us up and would absolutely be expecting Akatsuki to do Dangerous Shit, which risks exposing Project Necromancy.
- Your #2 and #3 reveal Project Necromancy to Tsunade and/or AMITY as a whole. Itachi is not going to go for that, at all. The entire point of hiding Hazou away and making everyone think he's dead is to keep Project Necromancy from getting leaked and Hidden Villages from stopping Nagato's resurrection.
- You lack, lack, any sort of jumpoff route wherein Itachi decides to veto all of your ideas. Hazou has zero guidance in this situation, and zero course-correction if it seems Itachi is getting annoyed.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I'm confused as to how we can simultaneously have Itachi demand us to go with him and...ask our family to volunteer? He'd have to demand for all of us. And quite frankly, if I have to choose, I want them to come with us.
Adding to all these points - Tsunade is likely an interim Hokage only and Naruto will likely replace her shortly. Discussing any long term Leaf policy with her is likely to be quite pointless.