Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

[Buggy]

I believe that 'try to convince Tsunade to make it a mission' has the best available outcome; working with Akatsuki, without being a traitor to Leaf. At worst, that outcome fails to shirk us of all our clan head duties indefinitely, but we'd get a reprieve if nothing else.
The issue is getting there; we don't know if we could convince Tsunade, or wait and convince Naruto. But this plan:

Enthusiastic Snip

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Is the best IMO, because it convinces Itachi to help us convince Tsunade, and having a essie backed up by a bunch more essies can't hurt. He'll see problems we don't see, and he has option-space that we can't access.

And at the worst, it's not like Itachi is going to kill us for being enthusiastic and honest, and if he thinks Tsunade won't go for it he'll be upfront about it.

Also, this is the third big decision in the quest, and what better way to handle it than genuine Hazo earnestness?

 

[Crunbum]

Can we just tell Itachi that we'll work with Akatsuki on the rift, but for the same reason we're researching it - ie. protecting our family - we can't just seclude ourselves in Rain?

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Itachi specifically said we cant have any contact with people in Leaf if we are to work on the project, not until we gain Akatsuki's trust. We could maybe workshop a different method of gaining their trust, but my impression is that until we do, we can't work on Necromancy, or we will meet a very bad end. Perhaps we could offer to go to Rain but work full time on the Dragonwar there instead of Necromancy, not being privy to Akatsuki secrets like we would have been otherwise and thus able to maintain sporadic contact with our Leaf family via Seventh Path? Or something like that. At that point its maybe feasible for Itachi to let us consult the Hokage on this and obtain their permission, making that into a mission?

This would effectively let us work full time towards a meaningful goal (and improve as a Runesmith which is likely an S-rank shiny) while no longer having to participate in Leaf Clan Head drama. Saving the world from the Dragons does not conflict with Akatsuki's goals, so we would not be at odds with each other, while still being on-site for Sasori to consult and vice-versa. We would be of use to them in their quest, though certainly not as much as if we were directly involved - but I imagine we would get acquainted with Konan and other Akatsuki members, and trust would come in time, albeit slowly. And they do seem to care about the Dragons, see Kisame and his Shark Clan business, so it might be a valid sell.

 

[roobee]

also i hope that this hazou-itachi meeting is somewhere within goketsu estate in an opsec heavy room? normally that would be a given but itachi and hazou have a history of opsec-failures.

 

[Genmilhas]

I just hope that becoming Sasori's assistant doesn't entail Hazou opening the rift from the other side. No, seriously, why wouldn't Akatsuki go for this option? It's not like they think they require Hazou for opening the rift. And this has a chance to greatly speed up rescuing Pain.

Also, won't every plan that consists of killing/betraying Akatsuki or stealing the rift crumble if Itachi asks Hazou something like "Are you planning to interfere with our plans?" and Hazou fails the following Deceit check?

 

[Crunbum]

Also, won't every plan that consists of killing/betraying Akatsuki or stealing the rift crumble if Itachi asks Hazou something like "Are you planning to interfere with our plans?" and Hazou fails the following Deceit check?

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Seems more a when than an if, so... Hazo should probably be willing to cooperate for real even if for that reason alone, going into a den of essies with Deceit 20 while actively plotting their demise is likely to get us killed within approximately five minutes.

 

[roobee]

random idea. if tsunade doesn't approve of it, we could get the clans to lend their support directly and defy interim kage tsunade. i think this would actually be harder than just getting tsunade to agree, the only clan block that we could maybe convince being ISC.

 

[Halberdier]

Akatsuki just utterly humiliated Leaf. And that after a string of murdering their most beloved leaders several times over not so many years.

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Huh. They killed the third Hokage (USoUD), the fifth (BotG), and the seventh (I'm sure y'all remember that one). Not only had leaf lost more leaders in the last couple years than the two generations previous, but Akatsuki have killed half of Leafs leaders total. Heck, in canon Hashirama and Kakuzu scrapped, so there's all the odd numbers. This means two things.

First, Akatsuki might be even more hated than Rock by this point. Killing the leaders and getting away with it repeatedly earns the sort of rage that works on every level. Add to that the connection both Tsunade and Naruto had to Hiruzen and Jiraiya, and the torture Naruto suffered from them (and the wild card that is Sasuke 's influence on Naruto post Itachi reveal), and I don't think getting leaf leadership onboard with collaboration is very likely. Shikamaru, maybe, but this is the worst time for us to have a big ask if him.

And second: Akatsuki only seems to end up being a problem for odd numbered Hokage. Since the next one is #8, I see no problem! We're in the clear, until they too die.

(Token reminder about Akatsuki being more likely to find out about Isan if we work with them here.)

 

[roobee]

Yagura killed the 3rd

 

[eaglejarl]

We could maybe workshop a different method of gaining their trust, but my impression is that until we do, we can't work on Necromancy, or we will meet a very bad end.

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Did you mean "can't work on Dragonwar"? Because necromancy is precisely what they are recruiting you for.

 

[Crunbum]

Huh. They killed the third Hokage (USoUD), the fifth (BotG), and the seventh (I'm sure y'all remember that one). Not only had leaf lost more leaders in the last couple years than the two generations previous, but Akatsuki have killed half of Leafs leaders total.

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Leaf also lost multiple S-rankers to Akatsuki, like Kakashi and Gai, and those are nearly as important as a Hokage. Itachi is also someone who was a Leaf essie in the making but then massacred the Uchiha, Leaf's strongest clan, before defecting to Akatsuki.

 

[Zampano]

I think there is actually zero chance of Itachi letting us talk to Tsunade before leaving Leaf.

The choice before us is a fork in the road, one that has real costs in both directions. It is, fundamentally, a trolley problem. Going with Itachi causes pain to the people we love and improves (in expectation) the outcome for the world in general. Plans that ask to somehow make leaving Leaf less painful are not fully engaging with the dilemma.

I will admit that clever play is encouraged in this quest, so there may be some wiggle room that we can claw back. But Tsunade's involvement, specifically, strikes me as a complete non-starter for Itachi for several reasons:

First, the resources of Leaf are irrelevant to the Necromancy's project moving forward. Akatsuki has already stolen all the relevant resources (save Hazo).

Second, Tsunade's disapproval is not actually a sufficient condition to stop Itachi from taking Hazo. If Hazo says that he wants to go, and then Tsunade orders him not to, Itachi would be capable of coercing Leaf to hand over Hazo or simply kidnapping Hazo without any possible retribution.

Third, Hazo's presence in Rain requires some measure of trust. The more ties to Leaf that Hazo is able to retain, the less Akatsuki is able to trust Hazo. It is to the Necromancy project's benefit to have a willing but isolated Hazo. An unwilling Hazo is an unacceptable risk as a potential saboteur.


So, Itachi is asking whether Hazo will make the same choice that the S-Rankers of Akatsuki have made: forsake the bonds of clan and comrade and go missing nin to change the world.

 

[Crunbum]

Did you mean "can't work on Dragonwar"? Because necromancy is precisely what they are recruiting you for.

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Didn't Itachi tell us point-blank that Akatsuki won't interfere in our work as long as we don't interfere in theirs? I could be misunderstanding, but I took that to mean that us (or Kagome) working on Necromancy on our own (not under Akatsuki's banner) qualifies as interfering and is likely to lead to a very bad end?

 

[Rafin]

Note that we'd be leaving that as a message to Team Uplift, presumably read by Mari, who would destroy it and then inform the rest. Its not like we're leaving it on public display and shouting it from the rooftops. Ino would just be told secondhand that Hazou's alive, and only if Mari judges that feasible, no?

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Ah. I guess I can accept telling only Noburi and Mari and asking them to also share it with Ino (and others) if they think they can do so without risking the survival of the family.

We could have written a heartfelt "brother in law and heart" letter, and included an ending segment of "although I write this here and now, and we are on good terms, I am nevertheless too sensible of my own defects, and suspect that I will have unintentionally offended you since finishing this letter. I will not leverage my death to beg for forgiveness, for that would be unfair to you, and would discount the offense I have no doubt rightfully caused."

And then maybe follow it up with "I will, however unfair it is to do, leverage my death to ask that you look after Kei, and protect her. She will loathe me for asking this of you, and you may take additional offense at the very implication that you wouldn't, but these are my last words, and I intend to Go Pretty Damn Far, even after my death. Look after her, and look after yourself. Don't estrange yourselves from community, and do not harden your hearts against the pain of hard decisions. That way lies the path of Orochimaru."

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I think that such a thing would be too OOC and contrived while having little more value than just leaving that part out and just telling him to please take good care of Kei ect.

In fact if I were Shikamaru reading this I would think that Hazō already planned to insult me at the time of writing.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but for all that it could well be the rational thing to do, it feels like selling your soul.
Hazou will feel like shit, we'll feel like shit. I couldn't care less about Leaf as village/nation, but I do care about some of its people. I'd rather Nagato came back alive and we somehow manage to get Akane back through a deal, and live under his benevolent tyranny than having to deal with Mari & co thinking we abandoned them or something. They don't deserve that. It's an emotional argument, and it feels wrong, but I somehow still think it matters.

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Well yes. I don't disagree with you at all. But each voter has to weigh the value of that on their own, like with any other emotional or narrative argument.

Can we just tell Itachi that we'll work with Akatsuki on the rift, but for the same reason we're researching it - ie. protecting our family - we can't just seclude ourselves in Rain?

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We'd have to convince the Hokage and send a letter after Itachi is gone. Best we can do is tell him we'll do that. He can't possibly expect that we'll keep necromancy or this conversation secret. If he did not want Tsunade to know all about it in the event that we don't join him then he'd just kill us the moment we say no.

Perhaps we could offer to go to Rain but work full time on the Dragonwar there instead of Necromancy, not being privy to Akatsuki secrets like we would have been otherwise and thus able to maintain sporadic contact with our Leaf family via Seventh Path?

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Uhm. At that point, why would we do that? I thought the whole point was remaining involved in the necromancy project. The heart of the Dragonwar effort on the Human Path is Leaf.

Also, won't every plan that consists of killing/betraying Akatsuki or stealing the rift crumble if Itachi asks Hazou something like "Are you planning to interfere with our plans?" and Hazou fails the following Deceit check?

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Not if Hazō never plans to do that. Hazō has the benefit of a disconnected hivemind. Who knows what those crazy spirits of the Out plan about anything.

random idea. if tsunade doesn't approve of it, we could get the clans to lend their support directly and defy interim kage tsunade. i think this would actually be harder than just getting tsunade to agree, the only clan block that we could maybe convince being ISC.

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We couldn't even personally convince Shikamaru or Kei that necromancy is worthwhile in the first place. Shikamaru himself didn't see any avenue to convince his fellow Leaf Clan Heads that any research on "dimensionalism" matters at all.

I think there is actually zero chance of Itachi letting us talk to Tsunade before leaving Leaf.

The choice before us is a fork in the road, one that has real costs in both directions. It is, fundamentally, a trolley problem. Going with Itachi causes pain to the people we love and improves (in expectation) the outcome for the world in general. Plans that ask to somehow make leaving Leaf less painful are not fully engaging with the dilemma.

I will admit that clever play is encouraged in this quest, so there may be some wiggle room that we can claw back. But Tsunade's involvement, specifically, strikes me as a complete non-starter for Itachi for several reasons:

First, the resources of Leaf are irrelevant to the Necromancy's project moving forward. Akatsuki has already stolen all the relevant resources (save Hazo).

Second, Tsunade's disapproval is not actually a sufficient condition to stop Itachi from taking Hazo. If Hazo says that he wants to go, and then Tsunade orders him not to, Itachi would be capable of coercing Leaf to hand over Hazo or simply kidnapping Hazo without any possible retribution.

Third, Hazo's presence in Rain requires some measure of trust. The more ties to Leaf that Hazo is able to retain, the less Akatsuki is able to trust Hazo. It is to the Necromancy project's benefit to have a willing but isolated Hazo. An unwilling Hazo is an unacceptable risk as a potential saboteur.


So, Itachi is asking whether Hazo will make the same choice that the S-Rankers of Akatsuki have made: forsake the bonds of clan and comrade and go missing nin to change the world.

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Beautifully put.

 

[Crunbum]

Uhm. At that point, why would we do that? I thought the whole point was remaining involved in the necromancy project. The heart of the Dragonwar effort on the Human Path is Leaf.

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Supposing we wish not to sever ties with our friends and Leaf while getting at least minimal leeway with Akatsuki over the Rift, I would view going to Rain but focusing on the Dragonwar instead of being read-into Project Necromancy (and thus needing to sever said ties) as a viable alternative:

- It lets us focus solely on Sealing (and 3D Sealing) without Clan Head distractions or being subject to Sasori's whims, which presents the fastest available route to personal power, and the stronger we get, the more our personal agency matters to Akatsuki and everyone else in the setting.
- It directs our full efforts towards stopping an impeding apocalypse, one that needs stopping, mind you. If we work on Necromancy, we are betting on resurrecting Nagato etc and then dealing with the Dragons afterwards. What if they escape in the meantime? We are a key player in making the Dragonwar happen and fixing the Seal, if we "bail", then chances are the whole thing will fail and it might be too late then.
- It lets us aquaint ourselves with Akatsuki and establish some manner of relationship with Sasori and Konan at the very least.
- Kagome probably can't stay in Leaf if us working on Necromancy is something the Akatsuki can't condone, and going there on something that can be approved as a mission opens a path towards asking Kagome to stop that research (or go with us to Rain and be the one to help Sasori out).
- Moves the quest from "Clan Head Simulator" into "Researching in Rain, plus Akatsuki stuff" just the same as full collaboration, which is exciting.

 

[roobee]

We couldn't even personally convince Shikamaru or Kei that necromancy is worthwhile in the first place. Shikamaru himself didn't see any avenue to convince his fellow Leaf Clan Heads that any research on "dimensionalism" matters at all.

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I meant convince the clan heads to oppose tsunade declaring hazou missing nin, or punishing the goketsu clan. If they don't believe in resurrection, that actually makes it easier.

I would view going to Rain but focusing on the Dragonwar

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Interesting point. We could also use dragon war collaboration as a way to convince Tsunade

 

[Lord Marshal]

• We can repel the Akatsuki's direct attack, as long as their group has been culled sufficiently.

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I would argue that this is not correct, the first move advantage is as true for us as it is for them, even on peer S-rankers, the Akatsuki would still get the advantage of deciding when or how to attack, or, if they are smart...simply assassinate Hazou, because at the end of the day, while Leaf is an hard target, because even if kill the individual the ninja population remains, we are not equally resilient.
On top of that, this also excludes the fact that enemy gets always gets a say aside for the most basic "attack Leaf" and wouldn't correct for new information. Use AMITY to crush us, directly assassinate Hazou, bomb our compound to the ground, ect...
The counterpoint would be "become unkillable from a coordinated assassination from 2/3-S Rankers with massive political power", but that add a whole layers of complexity to the plan, and honestly, if we could make ourselves resilient from an assassination from 3 S-rankers, we are already at "one of the strongest ninjas on the continent" that doesn't seems in line with the projections of our future strenghts in the short term.

 

[Shrooms]

Also, won't every plan that consists of killing/betraying Akatsuki or stealing the rift crumble if Itachi asks Hazou something like "Are you planning to interfere with our plans?" and Hazou fails the following Deceit check?

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He isn't intending to do it right now. Sure if the plan was "Hazou will say no because he intends to blow them up later" then that probably wouldn't go unnoticed. But players talk about killing practically every character every update, so if a deceit check could detect players tossing ideas around then Hazou would've been dead ages ago

 

[faflec]

They killed the third Hokage (USoUD)

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Yagura killed the Third.

 

[Crunbum]

Keep in mind it might be a repeat of the Inoue Mari situation from early on in the quest, where if we refuse, we are likely to get killed. Itachi did say Hazou must d-, and that paves way for killing us as effectively as it does for disappearing us to Rain, and him being pleasant about trying to convince us first towards an option he prefers (cooperating with Sasori) would cost him nothing if us rejecting would mean our deaths.

Not saying he's planning to do that, heck, I rate the chances of that as relatively low, but it is something to take into consideration.

 

[Noumero]

I would argue that this is not correct, the first move advantage is as true for us as it is for them, even on peer S-rankers, the Akatsuki would still get the advantage of deciding when or how to attack, or, if they are smart...simply assassinate Hazou, because at the end of the day, while Leaf is an hard target, because even if kill the individual the ninja population remains, we are not equally resilient.
On top of that, this also excludes the fact that enemy gets always gets a say aside for the most basic "attack Leaf" and wouldn't correct for new information. Use AMITY to crush us, directly assassinate Hazou, bomb our compound to the ground, ect...
The counterpoint would be "become unkillable from a coordinated assassination from 2/3-S Rankers with massive political power", but that add a whole layers of complexity to the plan, and honestly, if we could make ourselves resilient from an assassination from 3 S-rankers, we are already at "one of the strongest ninjas on the continent" that doesn't seems in line with the projections of our future strenghts in the short term.

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Oh, I meant "us" as in "Leaf", not "Hazou" or "Gouketsu". Separate provisions would need to be made to protect the "us" in that sense. Mostly "don't be there" or even "be the bait".

 

[faflec]

Personal opinion: Based on @Noumero's preferences, I feel that the best compromise here would be to decline, but explain why (Dragonwar) and offer our quiet support/collaboration from our position within Leaf. It would allow us to remain within Leaf and deal with the immediate crisis, but still have a small hand in Akatsuki's necromancy project and possibly influence them in our favor. The cons, obviously, are that we don't have as strong a hand as we would if we'd outright joined PLUS we'd be continuously collaborating with Akatsuki (i.e., treason).

Given how the hivemind works and the extremes between our options, this might be the best bet we have here.

 

[MinTaxer]

Thesis: Accepting Itachi's offer to join Akatsuki at this time gives us the highest probability of winning MFD in the long term.

Quest Loss Conditions (in declining time sensitivity):
Akatsuki Kills Leaf: Akatsuki destroys Leaf for AMITY violations/non-cooperation
Hazo Does Treason: Hazo does a treason/gets framed for Asuma's death/Shikamaru kills us
Dragons Eat Everything: Dragons run rampant, kill Seventh Path and humanity
Bad Pain Route: Akatsuki resurrects unaligned Pain, failed utopia? via Nagi Island ritual
Great Seal Fails: Great Seal fails, all reality fractures
Rock Invades Leaf: Rock or other villages win a conventional war against Leaf
Bad Dice Rolls: Random shadow monsters kill our under leveled ass
God Emperor Orochimaru: Orochimaru achieves godhood, vivisection dystopia.
Color Cabal ???: Color Cabal/Whirlpool destroys Leaf/Hazo for unknown reasons

Quest Win Conditions:
Resurrect Leaf S-rankers: Resurrect Jiraiya/Akane/Leaf heavy hitters, maintain control of Rift against all opponents, rule world via S-ranker spam
Good Pain Route: Resurrect aligned Pain (life debt), control Akatsuki, rule world via Pain OP
3D Sealing OP: Achieve godhood via 3D sealing/other esoteric sealing feats, rule world via Out-Hazo
The Long War: Leaf steamrolls Akatsuki/other Hidden villages in conventional war, rule world via gunboat diplomacy
God Empress Ami: Ami wins at Diplomacy, everyone agrees to live in peace and harmony, rule world via democracy

Things that are not Win Conditions:
Achieving Uplift is not a win condition, it is the result of resolving a win condition.
Hazo/Noburi/Kei becoming S-rankers via FOOM is not a win condition, there are many opposing S-rankers that could still steamroll us.
Defeating the Dragons and fixing the Great Seal are not win conditions, they are prevention of loss conditions.

10,000 Foot Logic:
We have to prevent 100% of all loss conditions from occurring, or we lose. We only need to enable 1 win condition. Our focus should be on choosing a path that minimizes probability of failure first, then secondarily maximizes probability of success down the most likely win condition path.

All paths to victory end in essentially ruling the world.

1,000 Foot Logic:
What do we need to prevent each loss condition or win each win condition?
Akatsuki Kills Leaf: Geopolitical diplomacy, good social,
Hazo Does Treason: good social, individual power
Dragons Eat Everything: Individual power, geopolitical diplomacy
Bad Pain Route: Individual power, sealing power, geopolitical diplomacy, good social, army power
Great Seal Fails: sealing power, geopolitical diplomacy
Rock Invades Leaf: individual power, army power, geopolitical diplomacy
Bad Dice Rolls: individual power
God Emperor Orochimaru: sealing power, good social
Color Cabal ???: ???

Resurrect Leaf S-rankers: individual power, army power, sealing power, geopolitical diplomacy
Good Pain Route: sealing power, good social
3D Sealing OP: sealing power
The Long War: individual power, army power, geopolitical diplomacy
God Empress Ami: geopolitical diplomacy, good social, army power

What are our best abilities/strengths that apply here?
Sealing power: we have everything except focus/time
Good socials: the hivemind/sanity checkers/Mari/Ami generally compensates for our low Deceit

What don't we have?
Individual power: we are not an S-ranker
Army power: Leaf is weak militarily
Geopolitical Diplomacy: Leaf is isolated geopolitically/constrained by AMITY

Which victory paths require the fewest variables?
3D Sealing OP: only needs sealing/individual power, but no guarantee the results will be strong enough
Good Pain Route: only needs sealing/social, we might not be able to convince Pain

Which loss paths are the most difficult to prevent?
Bad Pain Route: needs all 5 variables assuming we don't join Akatsuki
Rock Invades Leaf: needs 4 variables (doesn't need good social)

What does Akatsuki have?
Individual power: they are all S-rankers
Army power: they enforce AMITY, could control coalition forces, and a group of S-rankers is effectively an army
Geopolitical Diplomacy: they enforce AMITY and are S-rankers (also summoners which is relevant to 7th Path)

The Critical Path:
We accept Itachi's offer to assist Sasori in project necromancy. We do not join as a full member. How does this prevent loss conditions?

Akatsuki Kills Leaf: Greatly lessens the risk in present day (still a risk if other Akatsuki members or Itachi declare the compensation for Kakazu's death insufficient), and given rapport we will likely establish, for the future (should the entity who framed Asuma continue to work against us). This is a minor benefit, as we have other tools to prevent this outcome.

Hazo Does Treason: On the face of it, joining Akatsuki doesn't affect this. But, two important things. One, if we are out of the village it is far harder to get framed for another treasonous plot. Two, this current time is probably the best opportunity for Hazo to communicate and influence Akatsuki without incurring suspicion from Leaf's council.
Subnote: I think the best way to sell this to the council is ask Itachi to demand we accompany him as a hostage/assistant. He can say our dimensionalism knowledge is too dangerous, or he requires our assistance with a unspecified project for a certain period of time, or Sasori demands us as one of the bloodline ninja, whatever will be believed by everyone besides Shikamaru. But this would give us cover against accusations of treason.
Subnote: Alternately, we could try to sell Tsunade on our assistance as a mission (with or without Itachi's help) so she can cover us against accusations of treason.
Subnote: Obviously, if we aim to assist Sasori but harbor plans of betraying Akatsuki, they would execute us for "treason". We probably shouldn't do that.

Dragons Eat Everything: Very straightforward, as a condition of our assistance bargain for Akatsuki to assist on the 7th Plane as combatants (all are summoners apparently), and/or have them apply pressure through AMITY on other hidden villages to either find/transfer additional summoner scrolls, or simply warning them to not do anything detrimental to the various Summoners. If we can't secure that as a bargain, we would have many opportunities to influence individual members
Subnote: We could potentially convince Itachi/Kisame to devote additional resources to fight this threat without turning to Akatsuki. But we would have more trust and opportunities to convince additional members if we join.
Subnote: We could negotiate with Itachi to still participate in the 7th Path Summon Clan meetings as part of our ongoing leadership with the Dragonwar and Great Seal. We may or may not be able to negotiate supervised contact with Kei/Noburi on the 7th Path as well.

Bad Pain Route: This is the biggest loss condition remaining if we go this path. I will return to it later, given its importance.

Great Seal Fails: At the most basic level, joining Akatsuki would likely give us access to a wider array of valuable resources in general, but most importantly access to chakra crystals. We know they are rare and heavily guarded in natural dungeons, who better to help us out than S-rankers? If we are able to focus on Necromancy with Sasori and get it done relatively quickly, we should be fine delaying our Great Seal work for a bit.
Subnote: If we don't want a delay, we should give Orochimaru 3D sealing, and additionally share it with Tsunade. Orochimaru can continue and accelerate work on the Great Seal, and Tsunade can either further spread the knowledge to other Leaf sealmasters to reduce Oro's advantage, or apply pressure on him to keep him in line. I imagine she will be better at this than Asuma was.
Subnote: Given our recent severe consequence, and how many balls we are currently juggling, in a world where we stay in Leaf I don't think we are solving the Great Seal anytime remotely soon. Honestly, giving Oro 3D sealing is probably the best choice in a vacuum to prevent the Great Seal failing given our constraints and competing priorities. More on this in the Oro goes FOOM section.

Rock Invades Leaf: This is almost wholly prevented. Akatsuki has the raw power and geopolitical connections to prevent or punish any foreign invasion attempt, especially if we are on their good side and either resurrecting or have resurrected their leader.

Bad Dice Rolls: This is almost wholly prevented, as we should not have to enter battle again for a long time. Also we won't have to fight Akatsuki for rift control.

God Emperor Orochimaru: If we don't give Oro 3D sealing, nothing happens. If we do give Oro 3D sealing we empower him, but by how much? Akatsuki is currently more powerful than Oro, and if we resurrect Pain their advantage is only increased. The timeline for any Oro FOOM attempt using sealing is absurd and I think overhyped given the much more real Great Seal world ending deadline.
Oro FOOM Timeline: We give him 3D sealing. He starts leveling Earthshaping. He is still devoting much energy to the Great Seal. Eventually, he is able to start experimenting with creating 3D seals on his own (at level 60+? Earthshaping). Sadly, Hazo during this time is working with Akatsuki and unavailable for bullying. Oro eventually creates workable 3D seals. Sometime after that, he finds/creates a seal that lets him conquer the world (this isn't even guaranteed, its an unknowable probability). This whole timeline is likely many months to years down the road given XP requirements and historical difficulty working with 3D seals and difficulty securing chakra crystal for experimentation. Worst comes to worst, before he finds something dangerous couldn't we ask Pain to just crush him? For AMITY/Akatsuki to declare him a SSS criminal and burn out every lab/cache on the continent? There are just so, so many steps of uncertain probability and uncertain duration between giving Oro 3D seal knowledge and vivisection dystopia, it's so far from guaranteed or out of our influence.

Color Cabal ???: Presumably having Akatsuki/Pain as allies would help us investigate or fight the Color Cabal? No idea really, they are a big ??? So don't know the threat they represent.

Bad Pain Route: Assisting the Akatsuki essentially guarantees Pain's return. What happens then? We don't care if Akatsuki enforces AMITY and continues as unchallenged hegemons (so long as they support or don't fight Uplift and don't kill us). We only care if Pain starts the Nagi Island ritual again, and it's bad. Let's assume the minimum requirements for the ritual are: Pain's Rinnegan, setup time, tons of chakra, and Pain deciding to start the ritual.
Subnote: Absolute worst case scenario, Akatsuki could start on the chakra/prep components before Pain resurrects, then on his resurrection they instantly perform the ritual. And by chakra requirements I really mean capturing tailed beast hosts again, its what they did last time. And during the entire time we are in the dark about what is happening, so have no opportunity to communicate with allies on the 7th path. This seems unlikely? Like coming up with 5 natural 1's in a row. How are they going to prep for the ritual with Sasori heavily tasked on Necromancy and others helping with the Dragons (again, a condition we must extract Itachi's agreement to), and potentially fighting Hidden Villages for their hosts again? Too many balls need to be juggled in a short time frame for this to realistically happen.
Subnote: More likely scenario: Pain returns. There is an adjustment period for him and Akatsuki deciding what to do next. Maybe they want to do the ritual again, maybe they don't. When he died, Akatsuki was not in control of AMITY and Uplift was not a plausible alternative for improving the world, and the Hidden Villages knew very little about Akatsuki. The world is greatly different, more opportunities in Akatsuki's situation and more threats if they deviate from it. This gives us time to talk with Pain (he owes us for rez assistance) about Uplift and his own plans and any assistance we can offer to improve the world short of creating a forced utopia. There's a TON of potential opportunities here for Hazo/hivemind to present interesting solutions to change Pains mind, or share our philosophy of Uplift, or if we can't convince him spread the word and build another coalition against him. Plus, Itachi's condition is we can't speak to our family until Pain returns. If Pain is back, he will owe/like us, we can talk to our family, we are back in contact with the sanity checkers/Mari/Ami to optimize social plans.
Subnote: We must make a condition of our assistance the ASAP resurrection of Akane and Jiraiya. We don't know much about Jiraiya's relationship with Pain, but can presume he was a mentor/trusted figure and Pain would at least entertain his words if Jiraiya takes our side on Uplift (Jiraiya would owe us too).

How does this path affect our progress towards win conditions?

Resurrect Leaf S-rankers: Path eliminated, Akatsuki controls the rift and any resurrections they allow will not affect the balance of power (unless having a quota of resurrections for villages that keep Akatsuki's peace becomes a way said peace is implemented)
Good Pain Route: Path strengthened. This essentially becomes our endgame.
3D Sealing OP: Path eliminated, if and only if there is a true path to invincibility with 3D seals, we won't reach it until far after Pain returns and either the world ends or we win the setting.
The Long War: Path eliminated, preserving Akatsuki and strengthening them will prevent any wars of conquest on our part.
God Empress Ami: Uncertain effect on path. Maybe Pain/Akatsuki will continue working with her and binding the world together diplomatically.

Conclusion:
At the meta-level, (I originally thought) the QM's are bored with village politics and enjoy writing about badass essie's interacting (but they apparently are cool writing whatever). They are offering us this choice. This choice is the equivalent of Alexander the Great cutting through the Gordian Knot, an out of the box solution to many entangled problems. We should assist Sasori in necromancy.

 

[MinTaxer]

Full disclosure, criticism/stealing/adding to anything here 100% accepted


The Critical Path Plan:

Words: 286

1. Question Itachi:
   
   1. Practical: How would this work in practice? We would not have to become a member, correct? For how long are we helping? We are a Clan Head, have obligations to our brethren and village and the 7th Path. Does he persuade Tsunade? Demand our compliance as part of negotiations? Can we see other Summoners on 7th Path? We don't want innocent Goketsu to be branded as traitors, or 7th Path coalition to disintegrate because we were branded as traitors (again).
   2. Nagi Island: What was Pain's intent? Will he do it again?
   3. After: What will happen to Hazo? Will they release us, imprison us, dispose of us, integrate us?
2. Bargain: (assuming answers to above are satisfactory)
   
   1. Dragonwar: Demand Akatsuki devote summoners to fighting Dragons. Make sure you can confirm it. Could ask for them to apply geopolitical pressure as well, keeping the other villages in line. Non-negotiable.
   2. Great Seal: Explain we need to contact Oro and Kagome before leaving to prevent universal destruction (or we are allowed to afterwards on 7th Path). Give Oro 3D sealing. Separately tell Kagome to pass on knowledge of 3D sealing to Tsunade. Could ask for Sasori's assistance stabilizing the seal after Pain is resurrected. Non-negotiable.
   3. Jiraiya/Akane: We need them resurrected immediately after Pain. Nonnegotiable.
   4. Uplift: Could ask for soft assurances of Pain's support or Akatsuki not moving against it. Negotiable.
3. Accept: (assuming results to bargaining are satisfactory)
   
   1. Apprentice: Accept the offer to assist Sasori in Necromancy, without becoming full member if possible, in exchange for Dragon/Seal assistance, assistance in preventing Goketsu from being branded traitors, resurrection of loved ones, and assurances of Hazo's long-term safety.

 

[Veedrac]

[⚔️] Give Itachi some earnest sarcasm.

• Title.
• Deal with the consequences.

Click to shrink...

Since y'all too wimp to vote for real plans guess I gonna have to do it myself.

...

Chapter 620: You want me to what?​

Itachi nodded.

"Your words from that time have convinced me that you have too much value to simply eliminate, either for your ongoing contribution to Akatsuki deaths or because you risk becoming an obstacle for our objectives. You may stay in Leaf and continue your work of Uplift. So long as you do not interfere with our plans, we will not interfere with yours.

"Or you can come to Rain and speak with Sasori. If he accepts you as his assistant, together you will reopen the rift that much faster. Once we rescue Nagato and usher in a true era of peace, his power and wisdom will create a world where your dreams and ours are within easy reach. Dedicating yourself to that rescue is your best way to earn his trust and ours. Of course, until that trust is earned, until Nagato is restored to us, communication with your fellows in Leaf will be out of the question.

"The choice is yours."

Hazō looked confused. But he felt sassy. "Sasori? Why would I want to be his assistant?"

"I don't have time to waste repeating myself," Itachi replied dismissively, before wasting his time repeating himself. "You may come to Rain and offer Sasori your help to open the Rift."

Earnestness failing, Hazō tried tact.

"I'm sorry, I don't think I expressed myself clearly. If I had time, taking a vacation from all the important stuff I'm doing to sit down and do rift research would sound grand. But even if I did have time, why would I," he pointed to himself, "want to busboy for some has-been talentless nobody like Sasori?"

Hazō was surprised he didn't see Itachi's eyes turn red, but this might have just been the fact that Hazō wasn't looking anywhere near Itachi's eyes.

"Sasori is likely the greatest sealsmaster alive."

Lacking anywhere else to put it, Hazō directed his incredulous look directly into the ground. "Correct me if I'm wrong," Sassō held up his fingers to count on, "but I know Sasori to have done exactly three meaningful things with his life.

"One, he fucked up as a kid and murdered a bunch of ninja from Sand for probably-stupid reasons.

"Two, I'm guessing he helped Pain with the big ritual, which obviously wasn't his idea, but you know he doesn't have much else going for him so whatever, point to him.

"Three, he stole one of my research ideas and now he's stealing my research too, because he knows the only reason he's even in this game is because I'm fucking busy.

"Please correct me if I'm wrong."

To his credit, Itachi paused.

"Sasori is a member of Akatsuki. Akatsuki will change the world."

Hazō laughed. "Man, you know I used to be confused about Akatsuki. What's the point of going around, gathering all these bloodlusted ninja up into such a powerful group, saying you're there to change the world, and then doing almost nothing with your time?

"Today cleared that up. The only one of you who ever really gave a Sage-damned inch is dead."

Not many people know this, but Itachi's eyes burn when they are angry.

"Every member of Akatsuki is here for Nagato's cause. We are here because your last Hokage played AMITY for fools and now we are upholding the peace. You will not spit on Nagato's legacy like this."

"Sage's ballsack, stop playing fucking pretend! You are here because a certain moron put an innocent village in a position where it only had one option, and now the rest of you opportunistic vultures are taking AMITY as an excuse to pick the flesh off the corpse you just murdered before all the less dumb villages correctly deduce the new status quo is just the old status quo except sabotage works even better than it used to and the evil people at the top are even more openly evil than they used to be.

"It's not sealmastery what this would look like if you were actually here for the reasons you pretend you were here for. Hidan would have said he was taking Asuma into custody, rather than just slicing him in half. Akatsuki's decisions would be made in weeks, not minutes, and explained in the court of all its members. Legitimate investigations would be made. Damages would be made in a non-arbitrary fashion so as to encourage forward-stability and counter the increase in participation costs."

"Don't pretend I am stupid, Gōketsu. You are paying because you killed Kakuzu."

"Oh I'm sure Hidan must be crushed that somebody died... Yes, I killed Kakuzu. Not the civilians I have in my care, hoping for a better life in the moment before some random ninja that thinks they're oh so special because they have magic eyes murders them for their gold. At least the farmers would have had a reason to want the guy who kept them in perpetual poverty in the ground, but guess whose lives you're ruining for this supposed justice you're supposedly justified in enacting?

"Does the Seventh path dying to the dragons seem like a great thing to you too? Leaf is kind of necessary right now and you're running around threatening to kill all the people on this plane who might stop it getting eaten. Sage, between having killed one of the most actually-important people in the world that was actually working on saving it, and throwing the rest of Leaf into inescapable poverty, do you realize how much you've actually fucked things up? Skyslicers aren't going to work twice, you know, this shit ain't easy."

"You are reminding me how dangerous you are, Gōketsu."

"Sage fucking get over yourself, fuck, am I surrounded by three year olds?

"I put a SEAL on a PIECE OF THREAD. Before that, oh Sage, I took a hemisphere and I... oh no, I turned it upside down!!

"What's he going to do next, eat soup with a spoon instead of pouring it on his head and licking at his face? The madman must be stopped! We can never let such heights of ingenuity tarnish the great pillars of ignorance that we have built!

"Y'all think you so smart just because you can stick someone with a kunai real good. You want me to fetch coffee for Sasori because he so smort he can kill a person real good. Oh my word killing people is NOT HARD. I am more impressive than that even if you ignore the whole sealing thing. You are not impressive. You are not even impressive enough to know the things I am doing that are impressive. You didn't even build AMITY, that was Ami, it's in the Sage's name. Why are you like this oh my—"

The last thing Hazō remembers is a whole lot of pain, and really wanting to know how the post-interaction survey went.

 

[acidshill]

"You are reminding me how dangerous you are, Gōketsu."

"Sage fucking get over yourself, fuck, am I surrounded by three year olds?

"I put a SEAL on a PIECE OF THREAD. Before that, oh Sage, I took a hemisphere and I... oh no, I turned it upside down!!

Click to shrink...

I do wish Hazō would say this to people. It would be pretty funny.