Hmm. Konan is probably the hardest to kill with such a wide radius of her existence, assuming she's also cautious enough to make tracking down her body a pain. Itachi's next because of the clones and extreme caution. Everyone else seems like they'd die to being gamma'd hard enough. Thanks for the writeup, Paper, EJ, Velorien.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- Pacific standard
It sure is. It's also asking two powerful allies of ours about the utility of taking her power for themselves before talking with her about it. Which framing is more appropriate?
Well, that's why I critiqued. I think Enma is going to be shocked we're suggesting this, especially to him first. Dude knows Hazō saw the difficulty and severity of claiming Land.
This is letting sentimentality "Don't hurt Kumo's feelings by asking her about a painful thing before knowing it's useful"
Get in the way of the sentiment of "Don't hurt Kumo."
Hopefully Cannai sees what's about to happen and shuts us down gently.
Hazō is a leading voice of the Conclave, despite all his confusion at the fact. If he suggests in front of the bulk of the Bosses that they mug Kumo and take pockets of her land for themselves, the notion is going to gain momentum among all the jerks even if it gets shut down later when Kumo goes "Heck no, skitter skitter".
What if Pantsā claims a corner of archeopteryx and refuses to give it up when the condors come in? I sure hope he doesn't overhear. Surely the plan includes infosec procedures: nope.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
The specification that this happens on Kamehameha's back reads to me like we're doing it in advance of any situation where we could discuss with Kumokogo and our other friendly Bosses in the same room. We could have breached this to Kumokogo directly on her own, or waited until everyone arrived and got together, but in the context of Hazou having the idea before the Crusade arrives I think Cannai et al. will be fairly understanding of the fact that he is not intentionally excluding Kumokogo except in how he wants to discuss strategy ideas as soon as he can.
This isn't to say that I think discussing this on Kamehameha's back was necessarily the right move, I'm personally unsure since simply going to Kumokogo directly with it sounds pretty sensible too, but I don't think "Dog Summoner discusses with Dog Boss, and also brings in the other nearby Bosses that he's on good terms with" is a particularly problematic action.
(And if Pantsaa decides he isn't going to relinquish a tiny patch of land in Arachnid that he gets no meaningful value out of now that the Crusade is over, and really seriously refuses to back down for some reason, Kumokogo just forcibly takes it back while the other bosses hold Pantsaa down. More realistically, I do not think Pantsaa will risk breaking the Crusade truce and inviting the retribution of a dozen different clans without a really tempting upside, like getting Conjura killed.)
On the Kumokogo side of things, I don't think it's particularly unlikely that she'll accept the idea should it be valuable. Enma took that patch of land on Archaeopteryx Island knowing that it would be taken from him at some point when some other clan moved in, so while it's painful on the soul level it's clearly not so painful as to overwhelm important strategic factors like "understanding what the Dragons did to Archaeopteryx" or, perhaps, "helping ensure the Dragons die and do not kill everyone present". Kumokogo has already shown herself willing to accept quite a lot for the sake of her people, bending laws and traditions as far as she can to give us the best chance of winning this war. Accepting a purely personal downside such as "immense pain" sounds to me like something she'd handily accept for the sake of her people.
- Location
- Washington, USA
Possibly also the least necessary to kill, if our long-term plans are neutral or beneficial to Hidden Rain. Or, if we're gonna repeatably resurrect Jiraya anyway... well, actually, we gotta assume she's put some thought into developing a countermeasure to Kagome's Bliss by now, but that'd still at least be a starting point for studying her vulnerabilities.
WHOOOO! I've been looking forward to this.
Reaction-style commenting, so no effort to condense or synthesize. thus I'm sopilering it, which is a very good practice for this kind of thing, and other people should to.
as per Hemmingway's* advice, this is ~unedited. I'm really sorry. I hope it's legible, and thanks for your patience.
*yeah, I know he didn't actualy say that. whatever.
Huh! I had him in this basket, but I'd guessed he has stuff to put about par with Hidan.
given that he's one of the ones I suspect might partner with Hidan to chase us down, that's really good news!
Why the fuck is SC here? is this a weird cary-over from canon, or ar the QM's background cooking some deep lore or something?
Editish- if he's smart, and the situation allows, SC could be an annoying defensive ability. we really need SC countermeasures.
Mediocre-Jounin combatant is someone we can absoulutely fuck up.
I absolutely called "his only defensive move is fastish free-action flight."!
He can run away from our punchers, but this fucking scrub who hasn't with limited combat skills probably doesn't have a great sensory toolkit. If we run into him(and he's not paired with Itachi), Snowflake has a realy good stealth-assassin matchup against him. this is great news.
good to know. kinda asumed it, but good to confirm.
I.... would not have guessed this. high resolve for SC stuff? somthing else? this is a weird lose end, it implies the we don't understand his full abilities.
bit of a shame for Mari, but not catastrophic.
"assasinate him". got it.
or, if we can open the conversation, let him talk to Kagome while we talk to Hidan. interesting.
We laughed.
also, true.
WTF??? I'd think only Konan and maybe Sasori would be more immune?
maybe non-lethal stuff will stay is his system?
This is extremely weird. if only our Deciet was higher, we could exploit this during teatime.
basicaly confirms what we thought, which is highly valuble.
I'm terified at the Idea that he has a lightnin-buff MORE GOATED than SotS.
Really good for the crew to know.
maybe Kei can chop his legs of with force-shuriken, grounding him?
Given that we aren't leveling CG, we don't have any fast moves that can actualy hurt him
great intel. takes a full round to setup. once he sets this up, we're in trouble.
Maybe WDB the blood circle to disrupt it?
Cool, this checks out. we just need a trap that can actualy get him.
Innnnnneteresting.
*probably* not worth trying to ambush him, because his partener is a big unknown, but the temptation exists to clar out a Jashin temple, loot its secrets, then turn it into an killing field ment to counter Hidan specificaly. hell of a way to clear staganation barriers.
...If we put goo bombs on a kunai, do we attack with the greater of [goo bomb TN, RW]?
if so, assasin!snowflak has *another* great matchup. although the blood-sensing might negate that. shit. wait, so SC even have blood? they're Chakra constructs, right? but the act like flesh-and blood, deficate, ect. hm, dunno.
this was funny.
both oro and kabouto's reactions.
and tells a bit more about what he thought of the uncreative "immortal".
huh, good to know. mind, I really don't expect ot fight Sasori outright. he has more important things to do than chase us, so we either WMD ambush him, or stay the fuck away.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa, Go fuck yourself, Snuncle.
You don't know me.
fun to see Oro continue to probably underestimate us.
REALLY good to learn that we're a decicively better sealmaster than Sasori.
although given that Sasori has been refered to as an S-rank sealmaster, and Oro thinks he's better, this upgrades my estimate of Oro's conventional sealing skills. not that supriseing for the research-based Essie, in retrospect.
ominious. the good news is that no-one is taking us seriously right now.
really good long-term intel to have.
cool, Hidan did infact have skywalker bioseals.
cool! I don't care 'cuz I ain't gonn need to fight him fair.
still neat to know i guess.
man, what are the "standard sealmaster staples"? I want to be a particularly dangerous opponent!
we should spare a line to ask this next snuncle chat.
cool. dosen't no-chakra kill everything? I thought having chakra was required for life in this world?
anyways, hitting him with a chakra-nullification rune will kill him outright. seems potentialy aciveable if we work for it.
might give use a "nuke Rain to kill Sasori" optio that dosen't kill thousands of innocents, which would be super great.
neat! great context for both sides of this list.
really good framing/intel to.
"Deidara is an intiot held back by not being smarter" is really good news. clever use of SC could cover for his main weakness(vaulnerable exposed body), so I really hope he dosen't do that.
yup, he's fucking GOATED and we stand no fucking chance against him.
In gerneral, my analisys of him was spot on, and I feel proud.
"so our sealing research on the 7th path" is looking worse and worse, because that means fighting both Itachi and the MFer. no deal, even with Cannai.
would not have guessed that, great to know.
that dramaticaly limits our ability to get him with something tricky
huh, I wonder if Hidan's Scythe gave him secret Jashin lore.
also wonder what's up with Satsuko.
also holey shit we shouldn't fight this mosnter.
hahahaha wut.
I guess J-man did exactly that.
we have no power, only tons of tricks. bad matchup for uplift.
interesting!
checks out.
*adds "A/S-rank Jutsu hacker"* to my model of her.
and this + the ammount of time she invested indicates that paper-jutsu is out of our reach. shame, but really good to know before we waste effort on it.
Bitch, please, we've been doing that since we were a Chunin!
OOOOh, she can also do it to other people's seals, with no prep/setup. dangerous.
we had talked about a similar seal, to lock skywalkers in place while setting off explosive tags. we sould invent that shit ASAP.
also, great insight into the Nagi Island tactics. always glad to see that.
checks out, glad to peg her Sealing skill at "Jounin", this was a big open question in the necromancy race.
yup, my household had speculated this, it makes her observed abilities make more sense.
...I though one tag per zone? how the hell does this work?
she certainly dosen't have a range of tens of thousands of zones, right?
yup. much like Sasori, she won't procatively hunt for us. this is good, because I have no fucking idea how to counter her BS.
she seems sane, stable, and possibly-humanist. but killing her along with Sasori in a WMD-ambush may be the way to go.
yuuuup, not gonna fite that.
huh. wouldn't have called it, but ok. Is she matching Deidara/Crows/Condors/onoki for speed?
"use an anti-chakra AOE on wherever Sasori and Konan are." got it.
Sasori will die, and Konan will be both vaulnerable and unable to effectivley persue.
biggest headache out of the likely hunter-nin? 1000%. unambigiously most dangerous? I'd pegged him as an EJounin with a half-dozen really good tricks. why does Oro think he's worse than all the others?
ok, he's really secretive. that we can't know we've sused out all of his instakill and perfect-defence essie tricks, so even if we counter everything we know he dose, it might not be enough.
and he's smart. shit. I was really hoping for the kina sloppyness that got him in a genjutsu battle with Kurnai.
right, this matches my assesments.
holy shit.
I *really* hope our FOOM-Resolve will save us.
we should benchmark against Mari sometime soon.
Shit. this was kinda obvious, but if he's exploiting it well, that's another huge pain.
shitshitshitshitshit.
we don't have any idea what this esoterica is, let alone ideas on possible counters.
he... he hacked SC? I thought that was insanely hard to do?
oh no.
holy shit. the precog effect is that strong?
also, tantilizeing lore implications.
heh, OOC let's up know what's up.
??? I thought Oro thought us chaseing after names without understangin why was "foolish"?
and what deeper secrets?
Holy Shit.
I'm starting to think we shouldn't fight him O.O
This is great. makes perfect sense. also, bad news.
OOOOH, those are from that Journty-to-the-west gimmick twins in the latter arcs, right?
so good odds he has like 3 more of them.
and other bullshit besides.
Yeah, my new "itachi hunts us" counter is: pray that he dosen't.
this means 7th path camping is out as it forces a fight against both him and Kisame. NNNNNOOOPE. bad plan.
also paints a picture of him acting like a PC for a decade of missin-nin-hood. we can't take that.
mmm-hmm, shame that nobody sane force could last 3 rounds against this monster.
but all his good tricks are jutsu/chakra-based. best plan to fight him is also a chakra-nullification rune and then kicking his ass rock-lee style. terrible plan, and SC means we won't even get the real him, but the best we've got.
Holy Shit.
by my math, that makes Itachi the strongest living combatant in the EN.
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- Location
- Pacific standard
This is a fair argument, except it's coming in after the crux of my reasoning. If we can't do it with the relevant parties there, we shouldn't. If Kumo doesn't give the okay first then it would be a mistake to suggest it.
Treat Kumo like Kei for a second, alright? Picture making a plan that requires her to go into a 6 month long frozen Skein coma in order to pull something off; then making plans with other allies that hinge on her doing this.
Would she have a choice when asked by the other allies? Like, imagine doing all this with Shikamaru, going behind Kei's back. (I actually can't, because Shikamaru can absolutely stand with his back straight when it comes to supporting his wife, but he'd be the equivalent ally)
Would she feel like Hazō respected her agency with planning this important battle?
Or would she feel like a tool to be wielded?
Kumokogo has a larger power base to stand on her own, but she's also facing a coalition of ~40 s rankers!
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
Translation:
Ah yes, Tsunade. Makes sense.
More seriously, I'm starting to think that this is the sign of a tactically crippled mind (but still alive)
I feel an odd sense of kinship
The cannibal seal was a Hidan seal??? Quickly, hide under the epileptic trees!
Fortunately we know how to defeat that: overkill and explosions
So it's the kind of legacy OP weapon that assumedly could be used to channel kill techniques from far away, and he only uses that for mobility? Or maybe he discreetly uses it to enhance cutting power with his elemental techniques.
This tells me that Orochimaru dissected Hidan at least once. This also tells me that Orochimaru and Hidan dated.
NOBURI: How did you do that? Your lungs push air for you to talk
HIDAN: Whaddya think I learnt the Air Element for, moron? I ain't thinking I need more cutting power.
It's good that knowing Orochimaru makes this incredibly ambiguous. Is he trash-talking Hidan or is he speaking from experience?
When he is such an imbecile that you still do not know what his capabilities are, you might have been outsmarted.
It's times like these I like our third best student, Snuncle Warcrimes.
Let's keep hiding it, let's keep hiding it, let's keep hiding it. They'll never see us coming. They'll never see us coming and they will cry tears of dumb.
"Appropriate corpse puppet," incidentally, is the name of the band I will shortly be starting,
Hey, wouldn't the Koeu bloodline still be useful as the bits and pieces of body can still move aro- oh right, that's the entire point of a puppet. They're literally the second puppet bloodline (after the Iron Nerve).
This also more or less confirms Ren wasn't killed by or for Sasori, I guess, even if he knows about the downloading.
SASORI (meanwhile): Jashin damn I love dango. Why did I ever put myself in a place to not be able to taste them? I said it a hundred times and I'll say it again, but I'm never editing myself ever again. Dango 🥰
... Huh. A top-level sealmaster that has some trouble innovating.
Still, this is weak evidence towards a theory I mentioned in passing, but of the Five clans, the more powerful (for a subjective definition of "powerful") individuals always seem to have, though innately or adaptively I do not know, a counter to their bloodline's "curse." Sasori innovates, Ami creates, Shikaku made displays of energy, Grandmaster F is curious... which one am I missing again? Yodomi, Mori, Nara, Raiyoke... Tama, was it? Do we know one?
Noburi will confirm that he's tested that quite thoroughly on lots of living beings and that is a nigh-universal weakness.
And now he's addicted to dango.
Literally, or, Shark Clan stuff? Snuncle you're being cryptic again
It's good that Orochimaru can do so much biosealing. That can explain the recursion when someone's so full of himself.
She must have read from that scroll of Grandmaster F's...
And she's right!
SHIKIGAMI: hey! I said no dancing!
SASORI: We shall see about that. After I finish my dango.
Is Orochimaru upping the challenge rating of others by reminding us we only killed a bad one, salty about an ex, negging us because our seal only killed that one, or just enjoying this far too much?
Looking at you, NARUTO.
Did we consider he may just be using illusion genjutsu to make others believe his pretty normal clones are Shadow Clones? He just has to add "Shadow" to what everyone hears. That would explain a few things.
Plot hook detected-
Hell yeah, let's go do blasphemous research!
ITACHI: Hell yeah, life up! I can throw caution to the wind now! Even eat whatever I want no matter how healthy or unhealthy it is! Sasori, pass me a dango would you?
SASORI (shoveling dango in his mouth): GFFT Y'R 'WN (get your own)
Pain dōjinshi can distract him long enough for a killing blow, but if you go for R-18 you'll need to make sure it's sufficiently tasteful or he'll flame your fic. Literally.
In his defence I would not eat in Snuncle's presence either
This is an extreme overstatement of how painful losing a bit of territory is.
I, for one, don't care in the slightest when Kei gets mad about this, and don't care even more if the giant sapient spider feels the same way (she won't).
You live in a ninja deathworld. We are trying to save your Clan's existence. Get over it.
But also, she's a leader, she's a good leader, and that is precisely why she isn't going to care.
Information: So you all know
- Location
- https://discord.gg/z9tBvbh
if you want to speak up about perceived injustice
If you want to speak up about 'perceived injustice' the appropriate subforum is the 'Ask a Private Question' one. You have not been Staff Notice'd or Infracted or anything this time around; but the correct method of speaking up against injustice on this forum is through this link:
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Spread this information around; you'll find that differently from other forums on the internet, Sufficient Velocity does, at the very least, tend to give users all possible methods and means of communicating with Staff all the way up to policy changes (after strenuous and hard discussion in the appropriate venues).
Have a nice day.
If you want to speak up about 'perceived injustice' the appropriate subforum is the 'Ask a Private Question' one. You have not been Staff Notice'd or Infracted or anything this time around; but the correct method of speaking up against injustice on this forum is through this link:
Where you can, indeed, communicate with the Staff without the risk of being infracted for Rule 5: Do not make it harder for us to do our job.
Spread this information around; you'll find that differently from other forums on the internet, Sufficient Velocity does, at the very least, tend to give users all possible methods and means of communicating with Staff all the way up to policy changes (after strenuous and hard discussion in the appropriate venues).
Have a nice day.
Violation of Rule 3: Be Civil
- Location
- https://discord.gg/z9tBvbh
violation of rule 3: be civil
User @Sir Stompy has been infracted for violation of Rule 3: Be Civil and has been infracted for 25 points and a 3-day threadban for their continuous passive-aggressive remarks against another user.
The forum possesses a function known as the 'Ignore' which can effectively be of great help when one feels another user is not acting at their best; in the interest of fostering proper and civil discussion, it is the preferred method of resolution, rather than keep 'snidely remarking' against other users.
User @Sir Stompy has been infracted for violation of Rule 3: Be Civil and has been infracted for 25 points and a 3-day threadban for their continuous passive-aggressive remarks against another user.
The forum possesses a function known as the 'Ignore' which can effectively be of great help when one feels another user is not acting at their best; in the interest of fostering proper and civil discussion, it is the preferred method of resolution, rather than keep 'snidely remarking' against other users.
Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Oh hey, here we go. That's Orochimaru sorted out.
Hmm. So the thing is, most of that scary stuff becomes irrelevant if you've actually planned out your assassination properly: namely, if you're doing it in a way such that the enemy isn't aware they're under attack until they're already dead. It doesn't matter that Kisame or Itachi have the perfect counter-technique to your murder weapon if they're not allowed to deploy any counter-techniques.
Two things complicate matters if you're approaching assassination from this perspective.
The first is passive, always-on defenses. Konan tops my list of hard-to-kill for this reason: currently, we may flat-out not actually have any weapon that can kill her even if we were allowed a free hit (we have ideas about "set all paper in-range on fire" stuff, but they're ideas, and apparently "in-range" is measured in hundreds of meters). Conversely, Itachi may not actually be any more difficult to squish than Deidara or any normal jounin, unless he has some unmentioned always-on or automatically activated defenses.
The second is sensory abilities, i. e. if the target is unusually difficult to catch by surprise. Kisame seems pretty difficult, from this perspective. Hidan may also be an issue, but in an esoteric manner: in that Jashin may probability-manipulate him into "sensing something off" based on no actual evidence, and so counter our assassination method before it actually deploys.
But who actually worries me here is Itachi:
We need more details on how that works.
Say we develop some sort of kill-everything rune, hide it using a variant of the Vanishing Seal and/or other privacy seals optimized to completely foil sensory abilities, then execute a Clever Plan that baits the target into standing right next to the rune when the vanishing effect ceases to function. The intent is that they die literally the same moment the threat appears, before even knowing they have to react.
Does the Sharingan's precognition kick in moments before the rune actually re-appears? Does it allow Itachi to always be able to pre-react to something going wrong? If so, he's indeed an issue. We may need to sic grue on him or something (not even joking here: antimemetically cloaked effects would be a counter).
(But I expect he needs to have the Sharingan active for it to work. I. e., still needs at least a split-second's warning.)
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I think Itachi having Susanoo is a given considering that he has both the sword and mirror and the other Mangekyou techniques. Its activation time is probably counted in single digit miliseconds. He should be really hard to kill out of an ambush attack. Furthermore, he is now fully healthy, which Orochimaru commented on... and which should be a massive power boost when he was an S-ranker even on his deathbed.
Itachi being healthy probably even fixes his mediocre CR weakness, especially since he has had plenty of new XP to spend since Nagi Island and is well aware of his deficiency in that regard, it might just not have been feasible to patch up back when he had chakra cancer. As for outright fleshy squishiness... well, considering how much he likes using Clones, we would have to somehow get to Prime unalerted and there is no strict reason why he has to show himself instead of, for example, doing Hiding like a Mole while his clones recon whatever area he is surveing. Or he could just Skywalk, kinda hard to set up a killswitch ambush that wouldn't give him time to react when miles up in the air..
If he was so easy to kill with an ambush, Orochimaru would have already done it. But Orochimaru thinks Itachi is stronger than himself and believes he couldn't take him despite being a basically immortal, S-rank Sealmaster and freshly a Runesmith, who is also a Jiraiya-tier S-ranker at outright combat even waiving the immortality and seals away and commands a retinue of multiple servant jounin. Let that sink in.
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- Location
- United States
I think it's imperative we throw a prep day at the Reality Eater.
Fundamentally I think Plan : Kill Akatsuki just got much harder than expected, unless Itachi or Kisame die in the Dragonwar.
It might still be worth it to try and cooperate with them to get Jiraiya and co back. We could probably pull it off now that the Crusade is reaching its conclusion, after all coordinating it was our stated reason of refusal and while Itachi said he doubts they will extend the offer again, that's not a hard no - and we have Runecrafting etc to offer.
It might still be worth it to try and cooperate with them to get Jiraiya and co back. We could probably pull it off now that the Crusade is reaching its conclusion, after all coordinating it was our stated reason of refusal and while Itachi said he doubts they will extend the offer again, that's not a hard no - and we have Runecrafting etc to offer.
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Noumero
Omit Needless Words
Single-digit milliseconds is fine. As long as it's not in the negatives, it's fine.
Those are not necessarily the same thing, and he only said the former. "Stronger" may mean things like "Itachi wins in any reasonable combat scenario", not "Orochimaru sees no way to cause Itachi's death".
I'd like to empathize one point here, which I believe is very important, but seems to be overlooked in anti-Akatsuki conversations:
The difficult part is not figuring out how to kill them.
As far as the literal killing goes, there's an endless list of stuff that's easy to invent and which will just work. The most straightforward "big runic explosive" will almost certainly work on all of them sans Konan. Yes, even on Hidan: he'd been afraid of Dust Release, so vaporizing him will likely work.
But: it will only work if they don't see it coming. Otherwise, they'd almost certainly be able to pull some trick out of their very deep bag of tricks in order to counter the attack, and then we'd lose the resultant exchange. I wouldn't even bet on most esoteric effects working, like runic chakra drain. We can likely invent something weird enough to work, but it's much easier to just not play this game; to only go up against their passive non-intelligent defenses, rather than challenging intelligent S-rank opponents.
So, IMO, 80% of effort should go into figuring out some method of delivery/deployment that leaves them literally zero time to react. What seals/runes/jutsu can let us achieve this? Where can we get them? How can we invent them?
(Hm. I guess shining a death laser on them would work, as long as we're talking about a literal propagates-at-the-speed-of-causality laser...)
TBH, I'm not certain we should even take any particular actions towards killing the Akatsuki in the short term. I just can't see a way we can reasonably accomplish it without everything we care about and also our life being extinguished, all to take out maybe 3 of them.
Its good as a longer term goal if we keep accumulating power for a decade or so maybe.
Its good as a longer term goal if we keep accumulating power for a decade or so maybe.
The proposed death laser is indeed literal speed-of-light. Gamma radiation, a high-frequency wavelength of light. It's been mathed out but the short version is that with the equivalent of X daylight seals tuned to gamma, an ordinary human loses consciousness immediately and dies quickly after. With a lower number, Y, acute radiation syndrome kicks in and they die after a while of being walking ghosts.
The main problems are getting Hazo to figure out gamma (we have a workable plan for discovering ultraviolet that EJ has expressly said Hazo can feasibly do) and improving the range enough to snipe, which we may be able to do with collimating the beams (Hazo has managed basic optics and collimation isn't very advanced) or some spacetime sealtech fuckery.
Also, EJ has confirmed that the laserposting has convinced him that defending against gamma or etc wouldn't be a roll of Physique and we managed to buff it by discussing how it'd realistically work.
edit: Overall, I'm most concerned about Konan because when we were discussing how Deidara/Sasori/Konan would interact with gamma given their nonstandard biologies, I said that as long as they functioned as biologies and not lich-style soul bindings they should still be affected by gamma. Deidara and Sasori both rely on regular human organs according to the dossier, but Orochimaru's under the impression that Konan did in fact straight-up bind her soul to a wide area of paper seals. I don't know enough to be confident but I do think that's enough evidence that we'll need a backup plan for total confidence in killing Konan. Luckily as strange_person said, she may be the least necessary to kill.
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probably most of this has been said already, but...
Some months ago, I had a conversation with a friend who's familiar with Naruto but not Marked for Death, and I said something along the lines of "I assume Konan can't duplicate seals, or at least has to roll calligraphy and infusion at a huge penalty when doing so, otherwise it'd be too broken, even by S-rank standards." Guess I was wrong!
It's not going to be enough, though, not even close. Let's not pick this fight.
However, this likely works in our favor. If we confront him at all, we'll do it with the Flame Absorbance Seal, so he may waste his first turn trying to use Amaterasu, thereby allowing us to die on round 2 instead of round 1.
There's a Katsumi Clan technique that causes explosions as a reflexive supplemental (Chapter 495) - near-unique among offensive techniques.
Normally, I'd say 'captured and interrogated some Leaf jōnin'. But that doesn't seem like his style; instead, I'm guessing he sweet-talked Itachi.
Unfortunate. I wonder how he accomplished it.
Odd, but noted.
Good to have this confirmed. Stupid of him not to use blood clones; they seemed quite strong.
Aha - a hint as to what one can do with chakra metal!
In game-mechanical terms, I guess this means stunts that reduce the penalties from having consequences. Makes sense, since he takes them so often and doesn't regenerate instantly
Indeed, that's how Oro got him last time. That scene was pretty great.
I mean, he took out Kakashi, but Kakashi was probably at the very lower end of S-rank strength.
We... probably haven't risen to the level of attention where he makes custom seals designed to counter us, but it could happen.
Element bloodlines seem like they'd be useless unless the puppet kept its skill at the techniques in the bloodline element. On the other hand, they can't retain skills in full generality, or he'd be the strongest member of Akatsuki by no small margin.
Huh, didn't realize that'd be a bloodline thing - I thought he'd leveraged Samehada's chakra drain into some way of permanently increasing his reserves.
I want that. Also, we're incredibly fucked if we try to fight her.
I want that even more.
Holy shit, what?
Some months ago, I had a conversation with a friend who's familiar with Naruto but not Marked for Death, and I said something along the lines of "I assume Konan can't duplicate seals, or at least has to roll calligraphy and infusion at a huge penalty when doing so, otherwise it'd be too broken, even by S-rank standards." Guess I was wrong!
So, if we could disrupt her defensive Fire jutsu with the Flame Absorbance Seal, that would render her paper vulnerable to non-jutsu fire.
It's not going to be enough, though, not even close. Let's not pick this fight.
And the one we're most likely to be up against is the most dangerous member. Yeah.
I would expect so; it's an obvious thing to invest in if you have the Sharingan.
IIRC this is the first we've heard of the Boar Clan
Please, uncle - no need to set aside its unique origins. We're very curious.
What are its limitations? He doesn't always use it, and he doesn't act as if he is certain to win all fights in which he survives long enough to act... is it just the eye strain, and he really does have a guaranteed kill if he's willing to use it? If so, damn.
However, this likely works in our favor. If we confront him at all, we'll do it with the Flame Absorbance Seal, so he may waste his first turn trying to use Amaterasu, thereby allowing us to die on round 2 instead of round 1.
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We have that. The ARS line is one of our main tricks.
Also, just realized Konan's explosives capabilities gives us a high bar to clear if we want to recruit Deidara via explosion.
Orochimaru does call Hidan the dumbest member of the Akatsuki
Honestly, Hazo somehow recreating this is not impossible. Shikigami at the very start of the quest had the same paper jutsu that Konan does, (and one of the techniques she has is literally called Dance of the Shikigami), so it's possible paper release is more of a hiden like Nara clan jutsu rather than something like Lava release. It's just a question of whether it's worth the time investment or not
Speculation: Nonstandard biology means the normal academy poison resistance training doesn't work well for him, regen means he's not worried about poison enough to bother developing an alternative defense.
Sounds quite promising.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the one tag per zone limit is because MARS is only near-simultaneous and the one to go off first destroys the others - if her version is truly simultaneous then she can set off as many tags in one zone at once as she wants to.
Likely. Not sure where Tsunade falls on that scale. Despite what he says here, I think Kisame and Konan also havev the edge on Oro in a straight-up fight - he couldn't take Kakuzu in that one interlude, and lists them as more capable herre.
Figuratively, I think.
I think it's not this, he says he's listing them in rough order of overall capability, and mentions Kakuzu midway through, after Hidan and Deidara.
Her version seems to be better - works without having to pair it in advance, among other advantages.
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True, that's a fair point.
Not true I think - he could not take on the entire Akatsuki hunting him (until he did). Like, it was all of them making an attrition play against him, including Nagato who shut down Reverse Summoning in a wide area. He was not fighting Kakuzu 1v1, rather he was already exhausted and badly wounded and out of contingencies at the point that fight happened.
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- Location
- United States
Additionally, a prepared attack on Akatsuki would not just be Orochimaru. It would be twenty fully filled Orochimaru Shadow Clones and twenty fully filled Tsunade Shadow Clones like they're doing against the Dragons.
Aodyssey
The glass will not protecc you
- Location
- Chaldea
Hmm. Konan being a decade younger than the Sannin doesn't seem to follow canon, altho I don't understand the relevance here.
Does Hazo know anything about the Seven Swordsman? When they're referred to collectively like this is sounds like they're at parity, but Zabuza seems like a high Jonin (=Kakashi) while Kisame is in a league of his own.
Once again, how the heck did Kurenai draws Itachi?
It really sucks that Kakashi and Gai both died in BoTG - if they'd followed canon trajectory they'd be at the top of combat powers. I hope Gai is still S-tier in Taijutsu - we should go for him first during Necromancy - maybe he's a Youth President rival of the Ami nation by now.
Does Hazo know anything about the Seven Swordsman? When they're referred to collectively like this is sounds like they're at parity, but Zabuza seems like a high Jonin (=Kakashi) while Kisame is in a league of his own.
Once again, how the heck did Kurenai draws Itachi?
It really sucks that Kakashi and Gai both died in BoTG - if they'd followed canon trajectory they'd be at the top of combat powers. I hope Gai is still S-tier in Taijutsu - we should go for him first during Necromancy - maybe he's a Youth President rival of the Ami nation by now.