I think realistically we'll have to wait to find out what the gameboard looks like after the end of this arc (assuming Hazou survives). What training decisions make sense will depend on what the situation is and what we urgently need. Possibly we have a lot of problems that can be solved with minatosealing and TH so we rush for that, possibly we have a lot of problems that can be solved with runecrafting, so we postpone MS and TH and spend our research time on runes.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
- Location
- Texas
We've been putting off leveling combat stats since... The chunin exams? Something like that. There will always be some shiny new thing to level, but not if our chunin combat stats mean we die. Not to the Akatsuki, but to regular chakra beasts or ninja.
Right, which is why my suggestion was "level Ath so we don't die, then Minatosealing(essie bullshit), then other combat stats"
Ath is pretty useless if you don't have an attack stat too. The enemy just runs you out of FP and kills you.
At full FOOM this is about 150 days of XP generation spent on combat stats. 2000 of the XP listed for this build is from notes. The other 1500 XP is to buy MS.
This is a reasonable compromise between combat stats and MS and I am not inclined to get MS any faster than this.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
I'm of two minds about it still. Like Acidshill said, we need to see how this arc resolves before we know what objectives and pressures we'll be facing in the future.
Thinking optimistically, let's say we square away all this Akatsuki stuff, secure the rift, and prepare to delve it. We'll be optimizing, then, for what helps us survive and efficiently search in the pure lands. It's possible that Minatosealing could be key here, letting us circumvent the path drain or something. It's possible that surviving in there will require higher base stats than Hazou currently has. We'd need to wait and see what the afterlife brings.
But there are other scenarios. If, say, we deal with the rift but remain missing-nin, then we may want to prioritize combat stats so that we can move more boldly as missing-nin. If we fail to deny Akatsuki the rift and expect Pain's return at some point in the future, maybe we aim for MS as a hail mary in an increasingly-desperate resistance effort.
In a 1v1, yes, but the most common type of fight scenario we end up in is "Hazou's fighting as part of a group and needs to provide buffs and not die". Whether it's with the Dogs or Team Uplift, we don't tend to fight alone, and don't tend to be the dps party member. In these kinds of scenarios, imo the value of Athletics vastly outstrips the value of Taijutsu.
(And if we want to become the kind of build that can fight solo battles, then we definitely need both. But in terms of comparing the two against each other, getting just the one, I don't think we're going to stop getting into team fights where having good Ath means a lot more than having good Tai)
Dumping your only attack stat while playing rocket tag an incredibly bad idea. It essentially leaves Hazou defenseless in any one-on-one combat, and I will not be voting for it.
He might be in team combat more often but one-on-one fights happen we can't expect to avoid them entirely. Planning to just die in them is, as I said, a mind-bogglingly bad idea.
Hazou cannot reliably hit mid-genin ranked Leopards
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Again, you definitely need both Taijutsu and Athletics to survive solo fights. If you have Tai but not Ath then they just clobber you turn 1 (with their superior Alt) and the Consequences mean you can't fight back after that. In fact, the only realistic 1v1 fight scenario I can think of where Hazou survives despite lacking one of those two stats is the Sandworm case, where he just needs to survive turn 1 and then flee on skywalkers. Ath, not Tai.
Hazou has been forced to fight for his life solo
I think we can do a pretty good job of trying to avoid them entirely, actually.
Plus, Hazou has the CR to summon a Jounin-dog now, so Hazou can have instant backup wherever he goes.
Also, I dispute the assumption that learning Minato's GOATed S-rank Bullshit won't increase Hazou's combat power.
Last edited:
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I don't think that judging ourselves against people that inherently get +2*AB is very appropriate.
My concern with MS is that we don't know whether it's possible to remove Minatoseals after creating them. Relevant quote below:
Note that Kagome says that you would need to keep the seal intact indefinitely or it would fail. Hazō points out that doing that is easier than Kagome thinks, but he does not dispute the underlying premise that the seal has to be kept intact.
It seems entirely possible to me that once you make a Minatoseal, if it doesn't have a finite number of uses - or maybe even if it does - you're just stuck with it forever. I am nearly certain that Minato used Shadow Clones to learn the discipline, and we can do the same - the assumption being that SC dissolution rapidly unmakes the entire seal simultaneously, preventing the occurrence of damaged states that would lead to seal failure - but if Minatoseals can't be removed, by putting them on ourselves too early we'd be permanently limiting our future potential, which would incentivise us to wait until we softcap MS before using it at all and to think very carefully about the choice before using it even then. Also, we'd be making ourselves open to seal failure if our ability to maintain the stabilizing pressure was ever disrupted (say, by damage to our chakra system from Noburi overcharge).
All in all, I'm worried that MS will turn out not actually to be that useful, and would prefer to get decent base combat stats before sinking too much XP into it.
- Location
- France
I desperately want MS, but I recognize that it's probably really inconvenient to learn and research. Flying Thunder God is probably the end of a whole research chain, not something we'll quickly be able to grab once we get the stat.
Let's do some combat while researching runes. We still have so many Runes to invent ! We even still have paper seals to make ! It's not like research will completely stop while we level combat.
Let's do some combat while researching runes. We still have so many Runes to invent ! We even still have paper seals to make ! It's not like research will completely stop while we level combat.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
With Shadow Clone, it might be possible to have the Clones infuse and use a Minato Seal. Since their Chakra System is independent of the owner, one might be able to trial Minatoseals safely, and additionally not worry about sudden seal failure from falling asleep or whatever.
Also more flexible.
That actually makes me wonder if one can use Bioseals on a Shadow Clone, now that I think about it. Might be something worth looking at via TH, perhaps creating a Shadow Clone variant that has '1' physical stress box.
Also more flexible.
That actually makes me wonder if one can use Bioseals on a Shadow Clone, now that I think about it. Might be something worth looking at via TH, perhaps creating a Shadow Clone variant that has '1' physical stress box.
Naruto's shadow clones don't have functioning Minatoseals makes me feel this is unlikely. Overall, I think that clones just aren't well suited for this. They're meant to be fascimiles of people, and their organs, meaning a shadow clone probably couldn't support a minatoseal. (though Noburi's recent Shadow Clone acquisition raises questions)
Despite the above, I think flexibility is something inherent to Minatoseals. None of our organs are ever static, and Noburi very recently called the chakra system the most complex organ system in our body. We could (maybe) design a Minatoseal that is adaptable enough that a shadow clone could still use it on whatever instance it has, or impart some extra ability to the clone.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
FWIW, I would expect something like ACE (a training jutsu that exercises your chakra coils to naturally grow somewhat larger, over the course of a year) to be reflected in Shadow Clone (which copies the Prime's chakra capacity), but not bioseals/Minatoseals (which are artificial grafts/infusions placed within the human body).
After all, Shadow Clones don't even receive bloodline abilities, and those are genetic and so fundamental to your existence that they have an influence on your Aura (see: Kei, Ami, and Hazou-pilot's own musing about the potential effects of the Iron Nerve on his bloodline).
After all, Shadow Clones don't even receive bloodline abilities, and those are genetic and so fundamental to your existence that they have an influence on your Aura (see: Kei, Ami, and Hazou-pilot's own musing about the potential effects of the Iron Nerve on his bloodline).
[X] Lore Update
[X] Interlude: Research Results
[X] Interlude: Research Results
They have enough of a chakra system to do Technique Hacking. Why shouldn't they be able to infuse Minatoseals? (Note: this is a separate question from "do Prime's Minatoseals get copied to SCs", which I agree is unlikely.)
That..... good point. So if Hazo were to keep Minatoseal blanks anchored to his chakra system, all of his clones could potentially benefit!
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
FWIW, I doubt that MS blanks would get copied over. Bloodline abilities are far more ingrained into someone's anatomy (they're inherited genetically, and are also affected by genetic drift), but shadow clones don't receive bloodline abilities.
I suspect that MS blanks that get copied over would be akin to paper seals that get copied over when you cast SC: not proper seals that cannot be used. We see Team Uplift carrying copies of their loadouts to hand to their Shadow Clones after Summoning.
This is also backed by the narrative: Naruto's Shadow Clones do not have a proper bijuu seal.
I suspect that MS blanks that get copied over would be akin to paper seals that get copied over when you cast SC: not proper seals that cannot be used. We see Team Uplift carrying copies of their loadouts to hand to their Shadow Clones after Summoning.
This is also backed by the narrative: Naruto's Shadow Clones do not have a proper bijuu seal.
Seal research for chapter 689
New
- Location
- USA
Seal research for Chapter 689 has been edited into the chapter.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I wanted to follow up on this since it matters a lot for our Rift Assualt plan.
- Location
- United States
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Is this rune (the superchiller variant that doesn't break when activated) still under discussion? We might want to use it in the final battle.
@Paperclipped, question: this rune says it has a range of 2km. The original RE rune had a range of 1 mile. Is the change in units intentional (i.e. RE 2.0 has only about 400 metres more range than RE 1.0) or accidental (i.e. RE 2.0 should have twice the range of RE 1.0)?