So if we build hype, we get more xp?

…do you have a wishlist?
Yup, y'all get bonus XP when the plan calls for stuff that the author finds particularly fun to write. We have a list of example good/bad things in the rules doc.

I thought Gamahebigai, having been summoned onto the Human Path, was a chakra construct? Does medical ninjutsu onto a Summoned being transfer onto the physical body?
Respectively: True and no, but Noburi's reaction was a reflex. I've added a line to clarify that since (as you rightly point out) it wasn't apparent. It'll be posted later today once I have a couple of other things resolved.

Skimming through the runes Hazo Knows
That document is currently out of date but I'm in the process of updating it from the copy kept by the delightfully helpful @OrthernLight

Hey, can't the shadow clones themselves cast the SC Jutsu? In here, it's no, right? He can't just give them more and more water to drink and churn out more clones, right?
Per the existing rules, Shadow Clones can in fact cast Shadow Clone and can get topped up from Noburi's water.

Note that chakra doesn't rebalance when SC is cast. So he can cast SC 3 times to make 6 clones it's less efficient -- vastly so unfortunately. But he just can't make more than 2 clones per cast, that's fine. He's only limited by chakra and Resolve. One he buys SC 30 he can start FOOMing (assuming Leaf is intact and we can buy chakra)
Yes, chakra rebalances when a new SC is cast.

If Akai has CR 40 and two purchases of ACE, I think that would mean a capacity of 441?
We're actually discussing whether or not ACE applies to Shadow Clones. Will get back to you.

I'd been thinking of him as being on the edges of Snake and likely to go to Toads for assistance, but if he's not, that does make it seem like a smarter choice.
Note that Toad territory is several hundred miles from Snake and Snake is an island so it requires crossing multiple miles of ocean to get there. (I haven't measured either distance precisely so don't make assumptions about the magnitude of 'multiple miles'.)
 
PSA: Unstagnations have happened
  • Hazō unstagnated his Sealing domain by completing the Remote Explosiver Rune (properly named the 'Remote Explosive 2.0 Rune' but that's not as funny)
  • Kei unstagnated her Combat domain by doing some offscreen missions for the Pangolins
  • Kei unstagnated her Leadership domain as part of those offscreen missions for the Pangolins
  • Noburi unstagnated his Medical domain by completing the 'can a Wakahisa use the Shadow Clone jutsu' research
 
Last edited:
I have attempted to calculate how many RERs Hazō can infuse, assuming
- 6 hours on-site to do so (an optimistic estimate, as having line of effect to the enemy without them detecting us is as yet an unsolved problem)
- whatever version of RE he's using has a low enough infusion TN to pass on a -12 while hurrying (is this true? IDK)
- a chakra budget of 1500.
- EDIT: this also assumes that plenty of blanks were crafted in advance and we have a way to get them all there

I get a result of 30.
Clones turn out not to help without a larger chakra budget; we're more chakra constrained than time constrained under these assumptions.

If anyone wants to check my math, that'd be appreciated.
It's parameterized, so if my assumptions are wrong, it's easy to change them. Except for the one about the blanks being crafted in advance, because calculating how many of those we can make would be nontrivial in its own right
 
Last edited:
PSA: Unstagnations have happened
  • Hazō unstagnated his Sealing domain by completing the Remote Explosiver Rune (properly named the 'Remove Explosive 2.0 Rune' but that's not as funny)
  • Kei unstagnated her Combat domain by doing some offscreen missions for the Pangolins
  • Kei unstagnated her Leadership domain as part of those offscreen missions for the Pangolins
  • Noburi unstagnated his Medical domain by completing the 'can a Wakahisa use the Shadow Clone jutsu' research
Awesome, thank you! Both for the unstagnations, and letting us know we've finished RER!

I'm now more in favor of actually spending banked XP we have on things that may be helpful, since any edge going into a boss fight would be good, and we just got the big XP payoff. But I really just want to get TH higher to do cool stuff with it, and we don't really have time to do that. But, that IS a lot of XP for increasing Chakra, if we want to keep trying to summon Cannai (and then actually get techniques that let us use Chakra/Summon strong regular dogs and still have enough to properly fight).

@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien for the TH number of shifts per day of success you can buy, it's based on the amount of Chakra. Does ACE affect that at all? As in, if you had two instances of ACE and Chakra 37, could you buy 5 shifts of success or still only 4?
 
@Paperclipped @eaglejarl @Velorien for the TH number of shifts per day of success you can buy, it's based on the amount of Chakra. Does ACE affect that at all? As in, if you had two instances of ACE and Chakra 37, could you buy 5 shifts of success or still only 4?
IIRC, it's connected to your chakra AB. So if your chakra stat was 37, your AB would still be 4, even if it was at an effective 5.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Thank you all for taking the time to answer this! I have a few follow up questions, if that's alright.

  • How does Environmental Chakra fit into this model? Is it involved at all in the default creation of seal effects?
  • Is there normally chakra in constructs created by seals? (Earth Domes, Force Walls, Air Domes, etc).
  • How do these constructs look in Noburi's chakra sense? (Bright like human chakra, static like environmental chakra, void like no chakra)
  • Do non-constructs effect look similar to jutsu in Noburi's chakra sense?
I suppose the big question is whether seals do their business with chakra or not. Yes the explanation above says that the Human Chakra in the seal triggers the effect, but does the effect itself use chakra?
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Hi, sorry I hate to ping about this again, but seeing as were about to attack O'Uzu i think we need to know the answer to this. If force domes are made of chakra, Kisame can probably use Samehada to eat it, or at least use his bonkers chakra sense to detect it.
 
The wounds were fresh and had clearly been made with something extremely sharp, perhaps a scalpel. They were shallow, not life-threatening or any risk of permanent damage. Instead, the skin had been flensed away in neat strips.
so, besides being a massive asshole is there a reason he cound't just have told him the messege i am not seeing?
 
so, besides being a massive asshole is there a reason he cound't just have told him the messege i am not seeing?
It seems unambiguous to me that Oro carved the message into the toad's back because we had Noburi swear the toad not to pass any information from Orochimaru to us except "it's time to return to Leaf":
"So, Kumokōgō's a no-go and you want me to send a toad on a long journey so that Orochimaru can send you the snake-signal – and only the snake-signal, absolutely nothing else – on a moment's notice?"

"That sums it up," Hazō said.
Gamahebigai refused to pass verbal messages, and wouldn't have carried a letter or even a rock either. So Oro had to get creative.
 
Seals very emphatically do not affect entire fortresses of doom. 5SB has strict volume limits that mean no variant of the seal would ever affect something a large as a house even (in volume terms). It also cannot affect parts of an object, so support pillars are no good. This is something that only runes can do

Not affecting an entire fortress is why you use more than one of them. Volume limits are why you use them on thin, flat things (like a sheet stretched over the outside of each wall) if you're clever, though I don't know if Sasori is clever in that sense (and whatever defensive seals he has might have different constraints).
A runic explosion actually will destroy one, IIRC, and would regardless destroy the supporting seals, but I think a setup like I described might block most of the first explosion despite being destroyed by it.
Or he might have something else entirely. Seals don't go big, but they go esoteric sometimes, and can have very very high durability on effects that are immovable.

How specifically will they react that means RERs won't work? They can tunnel (but Iron Earth means it's difficult) they can set up barriers, (but RERs can likely demolish anything they can do). They can Reverse Summon (but then we can bury their exit point).

Most relevantly, scatter to multiple zones, so we can't hit them with RERs without re-aiming (which takes a practice shot, which takes multiple turns, by which time they'd've moved again one or more standard actions per rune, which might give them a chance to move again) and can't hit both of them with the same barrage.

Doubt they have barriers that can block an RER*, but if the barrier isn't in the same zone as the person it's protecting it'll block line of effect to their zone.
* well, maybe Kisame's jinchuuriki-scale techniques. Or susanoo, or the yata mirror (?), or some weird crow boss technique, but if Itachi is there we probably won't even get the first shot off and also he can come back to life with izanagi so basically I just to hope he's not present

Cast some S-rank buff jutsu (or very-long-ranged attack or something weird we didn't think of). This might not be enough to save them, but then again it might.
Is there an explosion release technique that makes you immune to explosions? Oro didn't mention one, so probably not.

If someone reverse-summons that won't help them win the fight but it does mean they'll survive and get the word out, a mixed result but heck, I'll take it.

I'm not saying we definitely wouldn't win if they survive the alpha strike, but I do think the chances go way down.
 
Last edited:
Runes: Fast-Forward (aka Temporal), Seals: Force Wall, Explosive 2.0, Earth Bullet, Reusable Rocket Boots (RRB) New
Mechanics are in the Known Seals and Runes document

From Chapter 659:
  • Cooling seal
  • Fast-Forward rune (aka Temporal Rune)
From Chapter 660:
  • Force Wall seal
  • Explosive v2.0 seal
  • Earth Bullet seal
  • Reusable Rocket Boots
 
Last edited:
I have attempted to calculate how many RERs Hazō can infuse, assuming
- 6 hours on-site to do so (an optimistic estimate, as being within RER range and having line of sight to the enemy without them detecting us is as yet an unsolved problem)
- whatever version of RE he's using has a low enough infusion TN to pass on a -12 while hurrying (is this true? IDK)
- a chakra budget of 1500.
- EDIT: this also assumes that plenty of blanks were crafted in advance and we have a way to get them all there

I get a result of 30.
Made some improvements to the spreadsheet, it now shows optimal number of clones used given the parameters, and chakra and time spent given the use of that many clones.
 
Most relevantly, scatter to multiple zones, so we can't hit them with RERs without resighting (which takes a practice shot, which takes multiple turns, by which time they'd've moved again) and can't hit both of them with the same barrage.
This isn't how REs work; the practice shot is to account for variance in the rune, once you've done that you can reorient the rune however you like and reliably hit your target Zone.
Sighting in the rune requires at least one practice shot. When you initially fire it, you choose a zone within the range and flip a coin. If the coin lands heads then you hit the target zone. If it lands tails then it hits a randomly-selected adjacent zone. The shot-drift is consistent for a specific rune so once you have done the sighting shot you can always hit the target zone even when retargeting. Each individual rune must be sighted separately.
Of course, whether firing 30 RERs at once would give you a practice shot on any of them (since you might not be able to pick out which explosion was caused by your rune) is another question; but honestly, an RER shot that misses by one Zone is still probably an S-rank attack, so I'm not sure it matters.
 
This isn't how REs work; the practice shot is to account for variance in the rune, once you've done that you can reorient the rune however you like and reliably hit your target Zone.

Of course, whether firing 30 RERs at once would give you a practice shot on any of them (since you might not be able to pick out which explosion was caused by your rune) is another question; but honestly, an RER shot that misses by one Zone is still probably an S-rank attack, so I'm not sure it matters.
I think we got the full TN 130 attack soooo

Now we just have to have a way of transporting the blanks. I sure hope that storage variant worked..
 
Not affecting an entire fortress is why you use more than one of them. Volume limits are why you use them on thin, flat things (like a sheet stretched over the outside of each wall) if you're clever, though I don't know if Sasori is clever in that sense (and whatever defensive seals he has might have different constraints).
A runic explosion actually will destroy one, IIRC, and would regardless destroy the supporting seals, but I think a setup like I described might block most of the first explosion despite being destroyed by it.
Or he might have something else entirely. Seals don't go big, but they go esoteric sometimes, and can have very very high durability on effects that are immovable.
Aim the first shot through an opening - has to be at least one big door if they're bringing stuff that doesn't fit in scrolls. Pretty sure having the blast centered inside, then rebounding back on itself off of indestructible walls, makes it even harder to survive. Three or four at once, good odds at least one hits the target zone even without sighting.
 
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped what were the results of [testing stacked Wind Walls]?
I WANT my mechanics cheese 🧀 🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀🧀
My suggested version is currently in QM QUINOA. ponwog85 that it will be accepted, at which point the answer is "you benefit from all the ones that you cast and none of the ones you didn't, including the ones cast by your SCs".

Hi, sorry I hate to ping about this again, but seeing as were about to attack O'Uzu i think we need to know the answer to this. If force domes are made of chakra, Kisame can probably use Samehada to eat it, or at least use his bonkers chakra sense to detect it.
No, please do ping again if we haven't answered something in a reasonable time. I have posted it to QM QUINOA for review by the others.

Did you mean force wall seal? Or is there a rune as well?
As @Sir Stompy said, it was a typo. Should have said 'Force Wall seal'. Updated properly.
 
This isn't how REs work; the practice shot is to account for variance in the rune, once you've done that you can reorient the rune however you like and reliably hit your target Zone.

Indeed I misunderstood the rules, and you are correct. However, there remains the fact that
It will typically require at least a Standard action to get it rotated and on target and may require several such actions.
 
My suggested version is currently in QM QUINOA. ponwog85 that it will be accepted, at which point the answer is "you benefit from all the ones that you cast and none of the ones you didn't, including the ones cast by your SC
I assume Snow can't use other instances of Snow to boost her rolls either?

EDIT: also does it combine with CotWG? It's technically a Scene Aspect so it doesn't necessarily obey the buff stacking laws.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top